Fighting styles that need improvement
3D Kombat Klassics
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Fighting styles that need improvement
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posted08/02/2004 01:21 PM (UTC)byAbout Me
To anyone who cares, I'm not banned. I left of my own accord. This place is dead to me now.
Member Since
03/05/2004 06:24 PM (UTC)
First of all I want to give credit to Artemis - it was his/her thread on returning fighting styles that got me thinking about this. Now with 24+ characters in MKD, I think it's safe to say that most of the fighting styles present in MKDA will return (except Drahmin's and Reptile's Crab, I believe). Now what styles, among both the ones we know are returning and those we have yet to see, need to be improved?
My vote for improvement goes to Longfist. Now when Mavado used it, there was no style-switch combo leading to Wing Chun. Who knows - the new character who uses it may have one. But that was one of my critiques. Also, there was no sweep move (very few low-hitting strikes at all, if I recall correctly), only two combo strings and a shove for a special attack (that's my personal opinion - I don't like shoves).
Now maybe I'm not using Longfist right. But that's not the point. I'm hoping to get you thinking of what fighting styles could use improvement. Hopefully the MK team will be listening (if it's not too late already)...
EDIT: I forgot to mention that this applies to weapon styles as well. I believe the sais have already been improved - what else?
My vote for improvement goes to Longfist. Now when Mavado used it, there was no style-switch combo leading to Wing Chun. Who knows - the new character who uses it may have one. But that was one of my critiques. Also, there was no sweep move (very few low-hitting strikes at all, if I recall correctly), only two combo strings and a shove for a special attack (that's my personal opinion - I don't like shoves).
Now maybe I'm not using Longfist right. But that's not the point. I'm hoping to get you thinking of what fighting styles could use improvement. Hopefully the MK team will be listening (if it's not too late already)...
EDIT: I forgot to mention that this applies to weapon styles as well. I believe the sais have already been improved - what else?
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one there should be no style that does not have any combos, thats just pointless. even if its like 2 hit combos add them.
ninjistu should be fixed, ininjistu is about quick and deceptive hits, knocking down down the enemy is its prime ojective.
and i don't like it when different weapons share the same moves, it ruins the orgnality of the weapon
ninjistu should be fixed, ininjistu is about quick and deceptive hits, knocking down down the enemy is its prime ojective.
and i don't like it when different weapons share the same moves, it ruins the orgnality of the weapon

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Wing Chun
Wing Chun needs a serious overhaul. The style was poor and felt extremely lazy and clumsy. It was slow and had serious lag problems. Wing Chun isnt like that. Its fast, powerful and deadly! More punches need to be in the stance and some better kicks. Even though Wing Chun is based mainly on kicks, there are some good kicking techniques. I'd like to see the parrying system used in Wing Chun put into the game. this would apply to both high and low attacks. Low attack are stepped over whilst punches are deflected or caught.
Sai
The Sai stance needs fixing. I know it's a fast and deadly weapon style and the way it was done in MKDA was really poor. More combos are needed for it and some more sneaky and deadly attacks.
Staff
Staff could do with some of its lag time problems sorting out. The weapon itself would be more combo friendly if it were shorter.
Shaolin Fist
Shaolin Fist needs to be faster. This style felt weird and clunky. The hits don't seem to work and the combos are pretty a little easy to interrupt. Some longer combos in this style would be great and a better, longer range sweep would be great.
Yuan Yang
Yuan Yang is my fave style with Frost and the only thing it's lacking is a decent sweep. It has great range and is excellently fast. A little more power would be cool too.
Steel Fans
Steel Fans needs its lag time sorting out. The style was very poor in terms of retaliation and connctivity and could set you up for punishment rather than victory.
Fu Jow Pai
Fu Jow Pai was a good style, however it needs a decent sweep and some better low attacks. Its high attacks need to be a little faster and this style would be great to use.
Wing Chun needs a serious overhaul. The style was poor and felt extremely lazy and clumsy. It was slow and had serious lag problems. Wing Chun isnt like that. Its fast, powerful and deadly! More punches need to be in the stance and some better kicks. Even though Wing Chun is based mainly on kicks, there are some good kicking techniques. I'd like to see the parrying system used in Wing Chun put into the game. this would apply to both high and low attacks. Low attack are stepped over whilst punches are deflected or caught.
Sai
The Sai stance needs fixing. I know it's a fast and deadly weapon style and the way it was done in MKDA was really poor. More combos are needed for it and some more sneaky and deadly attacks.
Staff
Staff could do with some of its lag time problems sorting out. The weapon itself would be more combo friendly if it were shorter.
Shaolin Fist
Shaolin Fist needs to be faster. This style felt weird and clunky. The hits don't seem to work and the combos are pretty a little easy to interrupt. Some longer combos in this style would be great and a better, longer range sweep would be great.
Yuan Yang
Yuan Yang is my fave style with Frost and the only thing it's lacking is a decent sweep. It has great range and is excellently fast. A little more power would be cool too.
Steel Fans
Steel Fans needs its lag time sorting out. The style was very poor in terms of retaliation and connctivity and could set you up for punishment rather than victory.
Fu Jow Pai
Fu Jow Pai was a good style, however it needs a decent sweep and some better low attacks. Its high attacks need to be a little faster and this style would be great to use.

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Karate:
This style was poor imo. Its combos were ok, but lacking. Its single attacks werent that good. The style itself could do with a bit more speed and some better mix up attacks.
Jeet Kune Do:
A good style but it lacks both speed and range. The sweep was this styles saving grace imo. The poor range and weak high and low attacks were annoying. The style was hardly useful save for the sweep and I only really used it with great effect on Blaze. Cage as a whole didnt do well with this style.
Nunchaku:
This style was horrid! Its weak attacks, a cheap button bashing combo and one combos whose hits never fully connected made me hate this style. It needs some major work and should have a lot more combos and decent attacks.
Xing Yi:
This stance is great! I love it! It lacked a sweet but had some brilliantly sneaky attacks. The Hopping Back Kick which we see Kira using in that screenshot is my favourite move in it. The style has great combo potential and was excellent o both Kano and Blaze. It had great speed, decent high and low attacks and wasnt lacking in power. It was a great style overall. One improvement would be the lag times again. Some of the high attacks left you open for punishment.
Butterfly/Sun-Moon:
If both these styles appear they need separate movelists, some new combos and more juggle attacks. The styles were identical and very fast and did some decent damage. Theyre not good punishing weapons but still got the job done.
Katana/Ninja Sword:
Horrible recovery plagued this style! It had decent combos, but many of the single strikes, especially the high ones left you vulnerable. Its low attacks were great and the Sidestep Swing was handy.
Broadsword:
As a style this could have been so much better. The animation was beautiful. The combos were beautiful! What this style lacked was decent single high and low attacks. The style could have been a lot faster too and to compensate should be a little less powerful. The Impale needs to go as if this style was improved, the Impale would have you waste a good weapon if you used it.
Mantis:
A great style but it needs fixing. This style also seemed a little clumsy at styles. Some of the combos were easily interrupted and some serious recovery issues on some attacks also need fixing. As an attacking style, it did very well. The sweep was great and it was an effective style overall.
This style was poor imo. Its combos were ok, but lacking. Its single attacks werent that good. The style itself could do with a bit more speed and some better mix up attacks.
Jeet Kune Do:
A good style but it lacks both speed and range. The sweep was this styles saving grace imo. The poor range and weak high and low attacks were annoying. The style was hardly useful save for the sweep and I only really used it with great effect on Blaze. Cage as a whole didnt do well with this style.
Nunchaku:
This style was horrid! Its weak attacks, a cheap button bashing combo and one combos whose hits never fully connected made me hate this style. It needs some major work and should have a lot more combos and decent attacks.
Xing Yi:
This stance is great! I love it! It lacked a sweet but had some brilliantly sneaky attacks. The Hopping Back Kick which we see Kira using in that screenshot is my favourite move in it. The style has great combo potential and was excellent o both Kano and Blaze. It had great speed, decent high and low attacks and wasnt lacking in power. It was a great style overall. One improvement would be the lag times again. Some of the high attacks left you open for punishment.
Butterfly/Sun-Moon:
If both these styles appear they need separate movelists, some new combos and more juggle attacks. The styles were identical and very fast and did some decent damage. Theyre not good punishing weapons but still got the job done.
Katana/Ninja Sword:
Horrible recovery plagued this style! It had decent combos, but many of the single strikes, especially the high ones left you vulnerable. Its low attacks were great and the Sidestep Swing was handy.
Broadsword:
As a style this could have been so much better. The animation was beautiful. The combos were beautiful! What this style lacked was decent single high and low attacks. The style could have been a lot faster too and to compensate should be a little less powerful. The Impale needs to go as if this style was improved, the Impale would have you waste a good weapon if you used it.
Mantis:
A great style but it needs fixing. This style also seemed a little clumsy at styles. Some of the combos were easily interrupted and some serious recovery issues on some attacks also need fixing. As an attacking style, it did very well. The sweep was great and it was an effective style overall.

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Long fist
This could have been so much better. Im not sure what this style should have specifically, but I know its supposed to be a long range style and it didnt have much of that. It needs it. It needs some decent low attacks. The ones it has a poor and weak. It also needs to branch into another style and it needs more combos.
Hookswords
This style was deadly and dangerous! Its low attacks were crippling but its high attacks did little to compliment these low attacks. They were clumsy and felt awkward and left you open to punishment if miss timed or blocked. Some longer combos wouldnt hurt either and some parrying with these would be great! We may as well put the hooks to use!
Broadswords
The range was ridiculous! The power needs toning down just a little to make this style a little less cheap. And it needs combos! It only has one!!!
Pi Gua
I thought this style was a little slow, but that balanced well with the power it had. Some of the recovery times could do with fixing and some of the attacks themselves need to feel less awkward.
Snake
A great style, but it needs some better low attacks. It also needs its combos sorting out. Some had hits that wouldnt connect and it felt clumsy in places. The range is a little too short, as I would assume as snake would have a longer range when attack. The hits need to be a little more sneaky.
Straight Sword
A great weapon style, but this needs its improvements too.It was let down by the lag times on some hits and the slow connection times between combo hits. If used against the comp youd be punished severely! The range was good and the attacks were great when used as single hits. The Impale would probably be better off being removed and replaced with a different attack. Again, I see it as a waste of a good weapon.
Kenpo
The sweep made up for this styles not so good high attacks. They were good only if you knew how to use them to great effect. The Neijin was relatively weak and almost pointless. It should be replaced with something else.
Kori Blade
I know this could have been better. It was poor. It has awful recovery times and rubbish combos which need sorting. This style was a let down and they may want to rethink how the overall weapon is used.
Pulse Blade
Whats this? A glowing Straight Sword! Whyd you remove the combos you idiots?!?!?! They shouldve just given this style the Straight Sword combos. It had all the single hit moves. By removing the combos they effectively trashed this weapon. Although it is slightly faster than the Straight Sword. Add combos!!!
Daggers
This style is in effect EVIL! All it needs as an improvement are some of the recovery times on some of the high attacks sorting out and maybe some spinning attacks. A wider variety of attacks would be nice.
This could have been so much better. Im not sure what this style should have specifically, but I know its supposed to be a long range style and it didnt have much of that. It needs it. It needs some decent low attacks. The ones it has a poor and weak. It also needs to branch into another style and it needs more combos.
Hookswords
This style was deadly and dangerous! Its low attacks were crippling but its high attacks did little to compliment these low attacks. They were clumsy and felt awkward and left you open to punishment if miss timed or blocked. Some longer combos wouldnt hurt either and some parrying with these would be great! We may as well put the hooks to use!
Broadswords
The range was ridiculous! The power needs toning down just a little to make this style a little less cheap. And it needs combos! It only has one!!!
Pi Gua
I thought this style was a little slow, but that balanced well with the power it had. Some of the recovery times could do with fixing and some of the attacks themselves need to feel less awkward.
Snake
A great style, but it needs some better low attacks. It also needs its combos sorting out. Some had hits that wouldnt connect and it felt clumsy in places. The range is a little too short, as I would assume as snake would have a longer range when attack. The hits need to be a little more sneaky.
Straight Sword
A great weapon style, but this needs its improvements too.It was let down by the lag times on some hits and the slow connection times between combo hits. If used against the comp youd be punished severely! The range was good and the attacks were great when used as single hits. The Impale would probably be better off being removed and replaced with a different attack. Again, I see it as a waste of a good weapon.
Kenpo
The sweep made up for this styles not so good high attacks. They were good only if you knew how to use them to great effect. The Neijin was relatively weak and almost pointless. It should be replaced with something else.
Kori Blade
I know this could have been better. It was poor. It has awful recovery times and rubbish combos which need sorting. This style was a let down and they may want to rethink how the overall weapon is used.
Pulse Blade
Whats this? A glowing Straight Sword! Whyd you remove the combos you idiots?!?!?! They shouldve just given this style the Straight Sword combos. It had all the single hit moves. By removing the combos they effectively trashed this weapon. Although it is slightly faster than the Straight Sword. Add combos!!!
Daggers
This style is in effect EVIL! All it needs as an improvement are some of the recovery times on some of the high attacks sorting out and maybe some spinning attacks. A wider variety of attacks would be nice.

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| tgrant Wrote: Butterfly/Sun-Moon: If both these styles appear they need separate movelists, some new combos and more juggle attacks. The styles were identical and very fast and did some decent damage. Theyre not good punishing weapons but still got the job done. |
The problem I have with this style is that the 4, F+3 combo is so slow that it doesn't actually combo most of the time. In fact, it's just a slower version of the 1, F+3 combo. What it boils down to is that the 4 attack is essentially useless.

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| Zebron Wrote: tgrant Wrote: Butterfly/Sun-Moon: If both these styles appear they need separate movelists, some new combos and more juggle attacks. The styles were identical and very fast and did some decent damage. Theyre not good punishing weapons but still got the job done. The problem I have with this style is that the 4, F+3 combo is so slow that it doesn't actually combo most of the time. In fact, it's just a slower version of the 1, F+3 combo. What it boils down to is that the 4 attack is essentially useless. |
That is true. This is where the mix up and stall techniques come in. Let the opponent think your not going to finish the combo and only do the first hit. They'll learn to retaliate afterwards which is when you put the second hit in and get the combo. Be careful when using it. Also, 1, F+3 is more damging. You might want to stick with it.
4 is a stunning move, but the comp never falls for those!
Kitana's Ba Gua style, if it is used at all, could be improved upon. It only has one combo, and it wasn't that great. Plus, the style is based in circular motion, using a lot of spinning strikes and reversals, and there was none of that.
I agree that Ninjutsu needs work, too. The techniques used in MKDA were nothing like the actual art.
I know that this is a game and everything doesn't have to be exactly true to life, but it would be nice to see some upgrades in this area.
I agree that Ninjutsu needs work, too. The techniques used in MKDA were nothing like the actual art.
I know that this is a game and everything doesn't have to be exactly true to life, but it would be nice to see some upgrades in this area.
I actually think most fighting styles felt clunky to some extent, and almost all of them had their fair share of redundant moves.. but the styles that stuck out the most for me were judo and aikido. IMO they need to be redone from scratch if they're gonna be in MKD.
I'm not extremely experienced in martial arts, but I would probably be able to recognize quite a few styles if I saw them (whether it's in real life or in MK) - but I would never be able to indentify judo or aikido in MKDA, if the names weren't plastered on the screen. To put it short, both are waaay to centered on strikes, when in reality they shouldn't really have any strikes at all. I don't know all the differences between judo and aikido (although I do believe judo is more aggressive than aikido), but AFAIK they should both be alot more about grabs, counters and locks, than kicks and punches. Apparently they're gonna give all styles uppercuts and stuff like that in MKD, and I guess I'm OK with that... but IMO that's the extent of strikes that these styles should have. Seeing Jax doing high roundhouse kicks in the 'judo' style really made me cringe... >_<
I'm not extremely experienced in martial arts, but I would probably be able to recognize quite a few styles if I saw them (whether it's in real life or in MK) - but I would never be able to indentify judo or aikido in MKDA, if the names weren't plastered on the screen. To put it short, both are waaay to centered on strikes, when in reality they shouldn't really have any strikes at all. I don't know all the differences between judo and aikido (although I do believe judo is more aggressive than aikido), but AFAIK they should both be alot more about grabs, counters and locks, than kicks and punches. Apparently they're gonna give all styles uppercuts and stuff like that in MKD, and I guess I'm OK with that... but IMO that's the extent of strikes that these styles should have. Seeing Jax doing high roundhouse kicks in the 'judo' style really made me cringe... >_<


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Kenpo-This is one of three styles that I take. It's too ground based in the game. Kenpo, especially Wu Shi Kenpo is very acrobatic, with many arieal moves and rcoveries. It has to be kind of ridgid since it was derived from Karate.
Drunken Fist-This was a disapointment. This is my second style which I take. Bo Ria Cho was one of the least combo friendly characters. His hits where too short and movements where too ridgid. Brad Wong from DOA examplifies what Drunken Fist needs to be.
Jeet Kune Do-This is my final style. And just as tgrant said, it was done poorly by short moves and hindering distance. The moves aren't as long reaching as She Quan but they deliver more force feedback and power then what Cage showed.
Drunken Fist-This was a disapointment. This is my second style which I take. Bo Ria Cho was one of the least combo friendly characters. His hits where too short and movements where too ridgid. Brad Wong from DOA examplifies what Drunken Fist needs to be.
Jeet Kune Do-This is my final style. And just as tgrant said, it was done poorly by short moves and hindering distance. The moves aren't as long reaching as She Quan but they deliver more force feedback and power then what Cage showed.
Shotokan:
I do this style, and my main problem is with the kicks.
Any good stance will protect the groin, and the kicks for Shotokan in MK:DA did not follow that principle. The back leg kicks starts out to the side of the body, then moves in, alongside the body, then extends keeping in line with the body. (This is just the basic kick).
Also, Muay Thai is another style I do. They should completely re do it. It was almost just a regular boxing in terms of moves, and not a mixture of short, sharp, powerful kicking with disorientating power punches.
Other than that, I can't see too many problems with it.
I do this style, and my main problem is with the kicks.
Any good stance will protect the groin, and the kicks for Shotokan in MK:DA did not follow that principle. The back leg kicks starts out to the side of the body, then moves in, alongside the body, then extends keeping in line with the body. (This is just the basic kick).
Also, Muay Thai is another style I do. They should completely re do it. It was almost just a regular boxing in terms of moves, and not a mixture of short, sharp, powerful kicking with disorientating power punches.
Other than that, I can't see too many problems with it.

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Shuai Chiao
The MKDA description for this says its the oldest martial art in China. So why is it lacking so much? It needs combos, some better movement and attacks.
Wrestling
This needs more of the slams, throwing techniques and locking holds that we see in this style these days. It was severely lacking on all parts. And the throws need to look more natural. It feels especially clumsy when theyre blocked.
Eagle Claw
All that needs improving here are the low attacks. This style has a good range and a longer ranged sweep would help.
A few more combos, a wider range of high and low attacks and a little extra range would help this style a lot.
Leopard
Leopard was good, but the jab and poke attacks were a little too slow in terms of recovery. A wider and better selection of high attacks are needed as most of the ones in this style have poor recovery and its hard to use as a punishing style.
Nan Chuan
The main thing about this style that annoyed me was that the computer characters could punish with it effectively but it was hard to execute the same techniques. Nan Chuan needs a few more low attacks and maybe a little more speed. This style is also supposed to incorporate many hand techniques. More of this should be shown.
Jujutsu
Where are the throws? Where are the joint-locking abilities? Where are the ground fighting techniques? Add them please!!!
The MKDA description for this says its the oldest martial art in China. So why is it lacking so much? It needs combos, some better movement and attacks.
Wrestling
This needs more of the slams, throwing techniques and locking holds that we see in this style these days. It was severely lacking on all parts. And the throws need to look more natural. It feels especially clumsy when theyre blocked.
Eagle Claw
All that needs improving here are the low attacks. This style has a good range and a longer ranged sweep would help.
A few more combos, a wider range of high and low attacks and a little extra range would help this style a lot.
Leopard
Leopard was good, but the jab and poke attacks were a little too slow in terms of recovery. A wider and better selection of high attacks are needed as most of the ones in this style have poor recovery and its hard to use as a punishing style.
Nan Chuan
The main thing about this style that annoyed me was that the computer characters could punish with it effectively but it was hard to execute the same techniques. Nan Chuan needs a few more low attacks and maybe a little more speed. This style is also supposed to incorporate many hand techniques. More of this should be shown.
Jujutsu
Where are the throws? Where are the joint-locking abilities? Where are the ground fighting techniques? Add them please!!!
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