Siduu101 Wrote: Why do you think everyone loves Grand Theft Auto? It's not because of the missions,the graphics,the gameplay and all that. It's because of all these features;flying holicopters,riding bikes,selling pizza,alot of guns,owning a houses e.t.c.

flying helicopters, riding bikes, selling pizza, alot of guns and owning houses are gameplay.

I understand what you are trying to say, and with the amount of threads against the MK gameplay it's only fair that a thread or 2 is made for people on the other side of the arguement (thats what it has been, not a discussion, a flaming arguement) but the examples you've used don't relelate to gameplay in the way you mean it, but I see what you're saying completely.

Great thread! Never thought I'd say that to you. Guess our chat helped.

Anyway, Fatalities are important. That's why so many of us wanted more of thema nd wanted them improving and not stupid looking. The Fatalities are part of MKs heart. Without them it would die.

I wouldn't put them before gameplay though. You have to get by the gameplay to get to doing the Fatalities. If the game has poor gameply, no one is really going to bother to see the Fatalities. Maybe once and then that's it. There will be next to no replay value if the gamepay is horrid. It won't be the opinion of everyone on a mass scale, but those who are disappointed won't play it again.

The gaming engine will improve over time. We just have to have faith in them and hope they'll sort it out.

I would take great Gameplay and no extras over not good gameplay and tons of extras anyday.

I want MK to have great Gameplay as well as tons of extras. Hopefully mK7 will give us that.

Your encouragements helped me Tgrant!

Well Siduu...first of all let me say congrats on a topic that is actually of interest, and presented well. There may just be hope for you yet.

As to the thread: You are correct in saying that it was the fatalities (and blood) of the brutal fighting game that caught peoples attention and brought them back for more.

However, Times have changed. Fatalities have been seen, blood has been seen...We're used to gory ways to finish off our opponents in MK. So it would not hurt for them to concentrate a little on improving the fighting engine. It doesn't have to be as complicated as say, Tekken...however there is ALWAYS room for improvment, especially when making sequels in a popular franchise such as MK.

Also, I don't think that it would necessarily mean they'd have to sacrifice Fatalities, secrets or other extras to improve gameplay.

Once again congrats on a worthy thread.

I agree.

Gameplay is very important. But MK without its awesome features and perfgect gameplay...is just not Mk.

Both things are important.

Double post. DAMN SERVER!!

Well, the thing that worries me about MK transitioning into "better" gameplay is the fact that the game is now straight to home console for the past few games. That usually means (not always), that it receives less beta test to fix problems within the game. Arcades might not have been popular, but it was a great way to get a diverse testing population to spy and point out problems.

If MK does add more into its overall gameplay, they have a huge chance of implementing it wrong. They really haven't been experienced with such things before...and producing more move properties, implementing them, and still trying to maintain balance is one hard thing to do.

But considering they are building off the MKDA engine, it is possible to have a highly treaked gameplay and still have more Fatalities than MKDA. MK can still have a chance to catch up in terms of depth, but it is going to take a while. Who knows, now that the fluff has been addressed in Deception...maybe the fans will start begging Boon for more substance when the plans for the next Mortal Kombat formulate. You please one side with this game...and maybe please the others with the next. We can only hope.

ok....taht's a good thread Siduu....i was thinking the same these days....Mortal Kombat would feel heartless without the Fatalities,of course i know that fatalities aren't all in the game,but they're great part of the MK history and fun....

fear the Noob....

I sort of disagree. I had fun with MK: DA without all the mini games and I didn't mind the 1 fatality per character. For me I enjoyed MK: DA arcade mode. I would like MK: Deception the same without all the newest mini games they out into it. I am looking toward the modded gameplay in MK: Deception, since I felt that the gameplay was a little bit slow in MK: DA.

I enjoyed Konquest last game since it fleshed out the storyline more and gave the playera better understanding of how everyone got where they were.I am not saying Deception's Konquest won't be just as interesting as MK: DA ( know it will), but we can sort of just go by the bios from the main game. Overall all the bonus features in MK: Deception are nice, but I wouldn't say just because 2 fatalites per character, mini games, and Konquest mode was the reason to have fun and enjoy the game.

The reason I enjoyed MK: DA so much was because the fighting system ( at least for me) broke the MK norm of being a 2-D game(MK4 was an ok game but still played like a 2-D MK game, still liked MK4 though. MK: DA go anywhere you want,in terms of the area. As well I love the idea of the 2 fighting styles and 1 weapon. The main thing I will deside for me if MK: Deception is enjoyable for me is mostly is how fun is the gameplay in the core fighting game. With that is a given with MK being a fighting game the rest will fall into place.

Again 2 fatalities , mini games, Konquest will be great, but in the end the fighting aspect of MK is what I've been coming back for and the crazy stuff that you can do in the game. The rest for me has been side stuff.As stated before MK not only gone apon the fighting as it's major feature ,but the story and charactersare also the biggest parts.

Therefore(for me ), the fightingcombine with the deep story of the plot and characters that I've loved in all MK games haskept me interested. So when I pop in MK: Deception for the 1st time the first thingI will judge it is whether if I like themodded fighting engine from MK: DA. Konquest and all the other stuff is to me like while you want to take a break from the fighting try these modes of mini games or go deeper into the MK storyline.For me gameplay has matter most since I enjoyed MK in MK: DA since it didn't have all that extra stuff and in my opinion the fighting aspect of the game worked. I will look for the same in Deception.

Wicked thread Siduu...good to see someone put thought into a post :)

Is it me...or nowadays with those other threads, ya know the ones bashing mk about it's 'shallow-gameplay', does it seem as though one person makes a comment about how shit the game is going to be cuz of this...and then all of a sudden everyone is getting up on their white horse and joining the crusade...bashing mk to the ground...and without a doubt, if you stopped and asked anyone of those people what they were complaining about would not have an independant answer to back up their beliefs...?? Sorry just an observation


Back to your post Siduu...excellent. I agree, MK has these defining features, not to imply that this is all it has to rely on. Yes Takeen and those games may have a more-in-depth fighting system, however each one is different...from one fighting game to the next. And all have their advantages and dis advantages. Mk is not as in depth but it has alot of things that the others don't...and how can we deny the fact that this is what sold us to MK the day it first came out.

All fighting games...no, all games need to develop on their mechanics, I agree...but if I'm not mistaken...is that not what MKDA was all about? That was a pretty big step.

Remember people, Tekken and such started out 3D, ED had the luvly difficult job of taking everything that everyone loved about the 2D Mortal Kombats and try and bring that into the 3D world, while still keep it true to it's roots yet innovative and 'shiny new' too.

MK deception...regardless of how much people bitch and moan...is taking a HUGE step in the right direction of what it's fans love and want...no matter how much people moan that this isn't a fighting game like tekken...well you just gave yourself an answer...THIS IS NOT A FIGHTING GAME LIKE TEKKEN :)

Cheers peoples! Have a good one

L8rz

I would much rather have (much) better gameplay, 2-3 fatalities and character unique voices and brilliant endings than all this extras shit. No konquest, no minigames etc.

Perhaps some unique character intros before the match.

Actually...after that last comment (plus observing the million other threads out there) I've made a decision..........


DON'T WORRY WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS ABOUT THE GAME...ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT YOU ARE HAPPY AND HAVE FUN PLAYING IT!!


And I am :) seems that there is just no pleasing some poeple out there...........

Great gameplay=1 fatality +no minigames=no konquest=No fun!

-------------------------------------------------

I can both agree and disagree with this statement.

1= Great game play alone would make the game fun. Maybe not as fun as it would be if it had all that other stuff, but it would still be fun.

2= Great game play does not result in 1 fatality +no mini games=no konquest. It could be Great game play, 3 fatalities, tons of extra modes, stage fatalities.....blah blah blah.

The only way I can see what you listed as happening is as the result of a stiff dead line.
But then they just have to extend it another year.
I wouldn't mind the wait if it meant a game with everything. I'd welcome the wait.

This is my thought: no other major fighting game has fatalities. Others have tried to implement some sort of finishing move at the end of a match, but have ultimately been unsuccessful. Mortal Kombat is almost synonymous with the word Fatality. Why did the original MK catch my attention back in the arcade? I saw some dude pull some other dude's head off with his spine attached. If that doesn't grab attention, what will? We need to remember that to those younger gamers, a fatality in Deadly Alliance or Deception should give them that same wow factor I had when I was a kid. It's still new to them. This is what MK is. This is why I still play it; along with the mysticism that surrounds MK. Without fatalities, it would be utterly necessary for Midway to focus more on gameplay. But Mk offers what Tekken and Virtua Fighter don't; special moves, an engaging plot, cool characters, and yes FATALITIES!!!

great thread sid. I think people are too critical about the gameplay. You should be thankful they decided to continue mortal kombat at all (not like they wouldnt)

I think the three fighting style was a great road to go down, it opens the playing field for combos and chain moves. I dont have a problem with the combo breakers and juggle breaks. If you remember a game called Killer Instinct, you'd know that combo breakers were a vital part in keeping yourself from getting pwned entirely. And with online play, Boon's just trying to make things easier on kids so they dont get noob smacked. It's really not that bad of a concept if you tihnk about it. Everything that's been put into MK, I've enjoyed, im not a complainer

Siduu101 Wrote: Since there have been alot of threads lately asking for a better fighting engine for deception,I've came up with somethings that deception actually have that replaces a great gameplay engine. Fatality- this feature has been in since the original Mortal Kombat game. This is what caught most people's eyes. It wasn't the gameplay engine,the uppercuts and all that. Most people love Mk because of fatalities and I guess the response to Deadly Alliance really showed us that. To me fatality comes before gameplay,call me stupid if you want but once I can kick and punch my opponent and execute special moves,the gameplay is fine with me. Gameplay-If it was for this shit everyone is talking about need to be improved,Mortal kombat would of been like the other fighting games. A fighting game engine isn't important as the replay values it has. Why do you think everyone loves Grand Theft Auto? It's not because of the missions,the graphics,the gameplay and all that. It's because of all these features;flying holicopters,riding bikes,selling pizza,alot of guns,owning a houses e.t.c. I'm not here to say the game engine shouldn't be improve,I'm just saing if you need a great fighting engine,some of these features will have to go because how much can someone do in a fighting game to make you happy.

wat the hell r u talkin about.. IMO a great fighting engine = A GREAT FIGHTING GAME..tekken, vf,and sc just to name a few...the better the engine is the more reply vaule it will have.. fatalities were a big thing back in the early 90s because they were new at the time.. and fighters werent as advanced as they r today...u cant get away wit gimmicks no more.. this 2004 wake up!! if u want to make a good fighting game u hvae to have good gameplay that can compete wit the other top fighters like tekken n vf...and its not fair to compare gta to mk because those r 2 different genres... gta.. is not a fighter...

I have to agree. People complain about no improvement to the gameplay. Let's face it, MK has NEVER had complicated gameplay. It's always paled in comparison to games like Street Fighter and Tekken. That's exactly what I like about it. Easy enough to just pick up and play, but just complex enough to where you still have to integrate some strategy. DA merely improved upon the basic idea by giving characters differing moves. Of course this added more strategy, but it's still no problem to play. And on a closing note I'd like to say this: Don't complain about gameplay changes. MK2 wasn't very different from MK1 and people loved it anyways. Just chill out, people.

Bleed Wrote: Great gameplay=1 fatality +no minigames=no konquest=No fun! ------------------------------------------------- I can both agree and disagree with this statement. 1= Great game play alone would make the game fun. Maybe not as fun as it would be if it had all that other stuff, but it would still be fun. 2= Great game play does not result in 1 fatality +no mini games=no konquest. It could be Great game play, 3 fatalities, tons of extra modes, stage fatalities.....blah blah blah. The only way I can see what you listed as happening is as the result of a stiff dead line. But then they just have to extend it another year. I wouldn't mind the wait if it meant a game with everything. I'd welcome the wait.

Before I put in my 2 cents. Siduu Finally a good and interesting thread for you since the Ermac one.
Congratulations.

Bleed Idk the disc is gonna be packed. To have all the stuff you want for great gameplays a lot. I see MK7 will be ok. Because of a hell of a lot more space. So we then might be able to see a huge in depth fighter and tons of extras. I say the fighters gonna be better this time but not that much. Like there should be more moves combos now combo breakers hopefully better juggles. More special moves. It looks like a few tieups type things like kabals move to Ermac. Also some throws thats probably it. I say soon as MK6 comes out some one make a Email or something to midway to suggest more in depth fighter. It might not do anything. but its better then waiting 3 months be4 the game comes out and making a petition like what happened already. Idk I think midway needs to stop by and get some oppinions.

I think MKDA is one of the most non user friendly fighting games ever.


Just put someone that knows how to play at least a little and then put someone on the game for the first time.


The first time player has a very hard time winning. It's almost impossible because of the limited amount of moves you have at your disposal.


A game like Tekken, VF, or SC is much more beginner user friendly than MK.

The large amount of attacks and just overall moves give the beginner at least a little bit more of a chance to win because they can do a lot more by just mashing the buttons.


The thing is that the more complex games mold better to both beginners and experts.

It's easy to get the basics, but then is also hard to become a pro.

The main thing that attracts me about the complex games is that you can do so much more. There is a real feeling of freedom and personality when you really learn how to play.


In MK, the limited options cause for very repetitive game play that just tends to get boring for the gamers that want to be great at the game and be able to show off or whatever.

Block, combo, block combo, block, combo.

And all you need to do is the strongest combo over and over to win.

The fighting in the other games is a lot more exiting and much more fun to watch also.

I'm rambling, so I'll stop here, but I think you get the idea.

which is good, why should a game be a simple as calling someone you know?

A little challenge is good now and then, farbeit from somebody to think about what their doing in a game.

Alright, listen up, Chumps. None of you are getting the point. This IS NOT a question of Extras vs. Better Gameplay.

1)Konquest, Puzzle and Chess aren't extras, they're fully realized games in and of themselves
that could be sold separately - as in Rogue Squadron 3. A positively huge bang for your buck.

2)Konquest, Puzzle, and Chess do not detract from the Gampeplay - they add to it's breadth. In fact, it is safe to say that Konquest has now become the MAIN GAME MODE of Mortal Kombat, reducing tournament mode to a mini-game. The tournament mode is now piggybacking inside Konquest and Chess modes!

So REALLY it's a question of DEEP gameplay vs. DIVERSE Gameplay.
Both are great and both are ways to improve a game. It just so happens that the MK team chose the latter - a fine choice as far as I'm concerned. Look at Wario Ware: No depth whatsoever BUT the diversity of games it offers is UNPARALLELLED, and it is one of the most fun games you'll ever play.

Therefore the rational person must conclude that depth is not the only way to make a game fun and in fact is entirely optional. The ONLY requirement for a game is that you don't get bored, and looking at MKD, I don't see how that could possibly happen.


PS
In addition, gameplay-wise MKD is deeper than MKDA in the same degree that MKII was over MKI [and it contained no other modes], and nobody complained about that.

draconus Wrote: In addition, gameplay-wise MKD is deeper than MKDA in the same degree that MKII was over MKI [and it contained no other modes], and nobody complained about that.

They didn't have the internet. Internet access seems to be an all-you-can-bitch free card. Oh well, I'm sure if we'd had the internet when MKII came out (it was around, but hardly anyone had it) they'd have been griping about how they left out Sonya and Kano and how they're distracting us from the lack of good gameplay improvements by adding silly things like Friendships and Babalities.

^^Exactly. People were griping about it around me at the time. But that was at the arcades no less.