I think the most important thing the designers need to do is to decide what is the lazy way of doing something and what is the quality way of doing something. Should the physics engine be reworked to prevent infinite juggles or should a juggle limit be enforced? Which is the easy way out and which would make an overall better game?

Here's everything I think that stands out in DA that needs improvement:

-They need more descriptive, longer endings. Some endings, namely Sub's, were so short, pointless and lacked so much detail that you didn't even feel like they were complete.

-They need ALTERNATE endings...that will keep you playing while you find out how to get them...such as accessing a certain arena, or killing/sparing a certain opponent, etc.

-They need GOOD fatalities. MKDA's fatalities sucked.

-They need a balance, and finely tuned fighting styles. Some characters...namely Drahmin...had NO style, and were just button masher throwbacks. Even Cyrax, Hsu Hao and Jax were poorly used...they lacked combos.

-Not really a huge issue, but one that bothered me was the fact that the GBA version had all these alternate color variations for outfits on characters...and MKDA had none. They just had the regular outfit, the alternate outfit, and that was it. And what pissed me off is that the Player 2 colors on same-character matches were ALWAYS cooler. They just need an option to color swap, like in MK4. Then i'd be happy with that.

That's about it.

yeah, maybe instead of having 3 hidden characters they should have only one, but with his own moves and own fatalities.


Also very important, the fighting styles must be improve, for example Cyrax ninjistu style had almost nothing to do with ninjistu, if Scorpion have this style in MKD for example, he should be able to do more flashy ninja moves like Kage in Virtua Fighter(slide throw, wall climbing, roll etc).

Also give more special moves to the characters would be appreciated.

Last aspect, the mystery factor, it was cool in MK2 when we were facing an hidden character there was some text that were written on the screen to announce that something big just happened, something like that would be cool, if we could fight this hidden character in an hidden stage that would be even cooler.

I don't know why everyone hated DA's Fatalities. I thought a lot of them were good like Sub Zero's and Scorpion's and Reptile's and a couple others. Some sucked, Drahmin and Li Mei and Quan Chi, but others were good.

Grimm Wrote: I don't know why everyone hated DA's Fatalities. I thought a lot of them were good like Sub Zero's and Scorpion's and Reptile's and a couple others. Some sucked, Drahmin and Li Mei and Quan Chi, but others were good.

Grimm i totally agree...it too thought for the most part that the fatalities were up to par!

TonyTheTiger Wrote: I think the most important thing the designers need to do is to decide what is the lazy way of doing something and what is the quality way of doing something. Should the physics engine be reworked to prevent infinite juggles or should a juggle limit be enforced? Which is the easy way out and which would make an overall better game?

Nicely said. I didn't like the "juggle combos" that were in MKDA and I hope I don't see them at MK6. They should be like in MKTrilogy. Sure MKT was a 2-d game, but their combos were base on realism and more detailed. Ask yourself is it really possible to do a highkick then immediately a high punch then another high kick on someone when your oppoment is in the air?

Thanks for the mature replys ppl .

How should MK6 PREVENT from making the same mistakes repeatedly like in MKDA?
Listen to their fans!!!!

If they decide to bring back the krypt, make it at least a little interesting. Oh and have fmv endings like MK4.

shang_heihachi Wrote: Here's everything I think that stands out in DA that needs improvement: -They need more descriptive, longer endings. Some endings, namely Sub's, were so short, pointless and lacked so much detail that you didn't even feel like they were complete. -They need ALTERNATE endings...that will keep you playing while you find out how to get them...such as accessing a certain arena, or killing/sparing a certain opponent, etc. -They need GOOD fatalities. MKDA's fatalities sucked. -They need a balance, and finely tuned fighting styles. Some characters...namely Drahmin...had NO style, and were just button masher throwbacks. Even Cyrax, Hsu Hao and Jax were poorly used...they lacked combos. -Not really a huge issue, but one that bothered me was the fact that the GBA version had all these alternate color variations for outfits on characters...and MKDA had none. They just had the regular outfit, the alternate outfit, and that was it. And what pissed me off is that the Player 2 colors on same-character matches were ALWAYS cooler. They just need an option to color swap, like in MK4. Then i'd be happy with that. That's about it.

your first three points regarding endings and fatalities are parts of the game where you just sit back and watch. at the end of the day i think endings will grow rather tiersome once youve seen them 2 or 3 times. Fatalities will be better but i think the main aspects that will make us keep playing the game over and over again will be the game play, the combo system, the secrets and even the difficulty.

i firmly believe that in general games are taking a downward slide in terms of replayability value because of things like movie sequences - sure it looks fantastic but there is no gamer involvement. look at the 007 games that have followed goldeneye - there have been some great movie sequences in the game but those 15 second sequences do jack shit in terms of wanting to come back and play more. DOA3 is the same - i bet everyone now pushes buttons to skip those pre fight conversations to get to the fighting because they have already seen and heard what the characters had to say to each other the last time they played the game.

i dont know why everyone wants movie sequences before, after and during rounds - all they are is nice touches that we will appreciate only the first time we play through the game with each character. i'm more interested in gameplay, unlocking secrets and discovering new and custom combos and that will keep me going much longer than fmv sequences.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this yet - characters need unique voices and win poses!

Ko-jah Wrote: your first three points regarding endings and fatalities are parts of the game where you just sit back and watch. at the end of the day i think endings will grow rather tiersome once youve seen them 2 or 3 times. Fatalities will be better but i think the main aspects that will make us keep playing the game over and over again will be the game play, the combo system, the secrets and even the difficulty. i firmly believe that in general games are taking a downward slide in terms of replayability value because of things like movie sequences - sure it looks fantastic but there is no gamer involvement. look at the 007 games that have followed goldeneye - there have been some great movie sequences in the game but those 15 second sequences do jack shit in terms of wanting to come back and play more. DOA3 is the same - i bet everyone now pushes buttons to skip those pre fight conversations to get to the fighting because they have already seen and heard what the characters had to say to each other the last time they played the game. i dont know why everyone wants movie sequences before, after and during rounds - all they are is nice touches that we will appreciate only the first time we play through the game with each character. i'm more interested in gameplay, unlocking secrets and discovering new and custom combos and that will keep me going much longer than fmv sequences.

I agree. Well said.

Animation

Fatalities

Levels

Story

In that order IMO.

Small things should be better. Main Menu interface. Really programmers: IF YOU HAVE NOT STUDIED INTERFACE DESIGN- DON'T BUILD INTERFACES!
In addition things like individual voices and actual verbal thisthingisdisableds--for each character--as well grunts. You should get animations of players when you highlight them in the start menu. Realistic gore for fatalities is huge. Pink bubbles is stupid! Just a few

btw, nice on a decent post.

illu§ion Wrote: Thing like endings, fatals, gameplay, storyline, etc. Discuss.

Ko-jah Wrote: shang_heihachi Wrote: Here's everything I think that stands out in DA that needs improvement: -They need more descriptive, longer endings. Some endings, namely Sub's, were so short, pointless and lacked so much detail that you didn't even feel like they were complete. -They need ALTERNATE endings...that will keep you playing while you find out how to get them...such as accessing a certain arena, or killing/sparing a certain opponent, etc. -They need GOOD fatalities. MKDA's fatalities sucked. -They need a balance, and finely tuned fighting styles. Some characters...namely Drahmin...had NO style, and were just button masher throwbacks. Even Cyrax, Hsu Hao and Jax were poorly used...they lacked combos. -Not really a huge issue, but one that bothered me was the fact that the GBA version had all these alternate color variations for outfits on characters...and MKDA had none. They just had the regular outfit, the alternate outfit, and that was it. And what pissed me off is that the Player 2 colors on same-character matches were ALWAYS cooler. They just need an option to color swap, like in MK4. Then i'd be happy with that. That's about it. your first three points regarding endings and fatalities are parts of the game where you just sit back and watch. at the end of the day i think endings will grow rather tiersome once youve seen them 2 or 3 times. Fatalities will be better but i think the main aspects that will make us keep playing the game over and over again will be the game play, the combo system, the secrets and even the difficulty. i firmly believe that in general games are taking a downward slide in terms of replayability value because of things like movie sequences - sure it looks fantastic but there is no gamer involvement. look at the 007 games that have followed goldeneye - there have been some great movie sequences in the game but those 15 second sequences do jack shit in terms of wanting to come back and play more. DOA3 is the same - i bet everyone now pushes buttons to skip those pre fight conversations to get to the fighting because they have already seen and heard what the characters had to say to each other the last time they played the game. i dont know why everyone wants movie sequences before, after and during rounds - all they are is nice touches that we will appreciate only the first time we play through the game with each character. i'm more interested in gameplay, unlocking secrets and discovering new and custom combos and that will keep me going much longer than fmv sequences.

I would say you make a good point, except for the fact you're making an example out of me by going on a tangent about something that I didn't even imply. Where, in my entire post, did you ever get the idea that I said 'there needs to be huge movie sequence endings and intros'? I NEVER once suggested that there needs to be movies in MK...it'd be nice to have video endings but I could care less...I actually prefer the 2 or 3 pics and descriptive story ending.

And why would Alternate endings be a bad thing? You say you want to play the game, find secrets, earn things...discovering alternate endings isn't discovering something secret? Its not a way of earning anything?

Yes, you sit back and watch Fatalities...but here's the big picture: Take away Fatalities, Story...and what would you have had with the first Mortal Kombat game? Probably one of the worst, most boring fighting games EVER. Fatalities and story make the game...I don't care what anyone says, no one would have given two shits about Mortal Kombat if it didn't have fatalities and an engrossing story when it hit arcades in 1992. It was fatalities that MADE Mortal Kombat.

As for people wondering 'Why does everyone think MKDA's fatalities sucked?'...I don't speak for everyone. I speak for myself. I have trouble grasping the fact that people actually thought MKDA's fatalities were the best, so there's the opposite end of the spectrum. But we aren't really talking about MKDA here.

I never said that 'these are the most important aspects in MK over anything else' did I? This topic is asking what we think MK6 should improve upon after MKDA's release. There were alot of things about DA that were great...and there were others that were not. I'm not saying the things that I listed are the most important things. Maybe they are to some people, and to others, namely yourself, they aren't important at all. My point is that you're carrying on about things that I never mentioned or even hinted at, and you're using my post as an example. Its just my opinions on some of the things in MKDA that vastly needed improvement. You're playing it off like those things don't matter. Fine, that's your opinion. But like I said: Take out Story and Fatalities, and what do you have? Nothing. Mortal Kombat wouldn't have even survived past the first game without those two VERY important parts of its overall existence.

I think MKD should have one story where all the endings interlock.

Arcade mode is where you fight tournement style and they should have a story mode where characters fight other characters according to there story.

I want all the endings to be actuall events that happened to each character and not what ifs.

shang_heihachi Wrote: Ko-jah Wrote: shang_heihachi Wrote: Here's everything I think that stands out in DA that needs improvement: -They need more descriptive, longer endings. Some endings, namely Sub's, were so short, pointless and lacked so much detail that you didn't even feel like they were complete. -They need ALTERNATE endings...that will keep you playing while you find out how to get them...such as accessing a certain arena, or killing/sparing a certain opponent, etc. -They need GOOD fatalities. MKDA's fatalities sucked. -They need a balance, and finely tuned fighting styles. Some characters...namely Drahmin...had NO style, and were just button masher throwbacks. Even Cyrax, Hsu Hao and Jax were poorly used...they lacked combos. -Not really a huge issue, but one that bothered me was the fact that the GBA version had all these alternate color variations for outfits on characters...and MKDA had none. They just had the regular outfit, the alternate outfit, and that was it. And what pissed me off is that the Player 2 colors on same-character matches were ALWAYS cooler. They just need an option to color swap, like in MK4. Then i'd be happy with that. That's about it. your first three points regarding endings and fatalities are parts of the game where you just sit back and watch. at the end of the day i think endings will grow rather tiersome once youve seen them 2 or 3 times. Fatalities will be better but i think the main aspects that will make us keep playing the game over and over again will be the game play, the combo system, the secrets and even the difficulty. i firmly believe that in general games are taking a downward slide in terms of replayability value because of things like movie sequences - sure it looks fantastic but there is no gamer involvement. look at the 007 games that have followed goldeneye - there have been some great movie sequences in the game but those 15 second sequences do jack shit in terms of wanting to come back and play more. DOA3 is the same - i bet everyone now pushes buttons to skip those pre fight conversations to get to the fighting because they have already seen and heard what the characters had to say to each other the last time they played the game. i dont know why everyone wants movie sequences before, after and during rounds - all they are is nice touches that we will appreciate only the first time we play through the game with each character. i'm more interested in gameplay, unlocking secrets and discovering new and custom combos and that will keep me going much longer than fmv sequences. I would say you make a good point, except for the fact you're making an example out of me by going on a tangent about something that I didn't even imply. Where, in my entire post, did you ever get the idea that I said 'there needs to be huge movie sequence endings and intros'? I NEVER once suggested that there needs to be movies in MK...it'd be nice to have video endings but I could care less...I actually prefer the 2 or 3 pics and descriptive story ending. And why would Alternate endings be a bad thing? You say you want to play the game, find secrets, earn things...discovering alternate endings isn't discovering something secret? Its not a way of earning anything? Yes, you sit back and watch Fatalities...but here's the big picture: Take away Fatalities, Story...and what would you have had with the first Mortal Kombat game? Probably one of the worst, most boring fighting games EVER. Fatalities and story make the game...I don't care what anyone says, no one would have given two shits about Mortal Kombat if it didn't have fatalities and an engrossing story when it hit arcades in 1992. It was fatalities that MADE Mortal Kombat. As for people wondering 'Why does everyone think MKDA's fatalities sucked?'...I don't speak for everyone. I speak for myself. I have trouble grasping the fact that people actually thought MKDA's fatalities were the best, so there's the opposite end of the spectrum. But we aren't really talking about MKDA here. I never said that 'these are the most important aspects in MK over anything else' did I? This topic is asking what we think MK6 should improve upon after MKDA's release. There were alot of things about DA that were great...and there were others that were not. I'm not saying the things that I listed are the most important things. Maybe they are to some people, and to others, namely yourself, they aren't important at all. My point is that you're carrying on about things that I never mentioned or even hinted at, and you're using my post as an example. Its just my opinions on some of the things in MKDA that vastly needed improvement. You're playing it off like those things don't matter. Fine, that's your opinion. But like I said: Take out Story and Fatalities, and what do you have? Nothing. Mortal Kombat wouldn't have even survived past the first game without those two VERY important parts of its overall existence.

i apologize if i made my post seem personal, but i didnt intend it that way. it was a result of seeing many threads supporting and petitioning for fmv sequences - which is fine, but these same threads do put the up most importance on it and comming back to this thread i saw that you listed five things - the first three of which i thought would do little do prevent the mistakes of mkda. sure the lack of fatalities and crappy endings pissed us all off but IMO it wasnt because of these things that made us stop playing the game. And i must apologize a second time as i did actually take your list as your interpretation of the most important aspects to fix. the other reason i singled out your post was because you made more than one point and you expressed your opinion why not just state "better endings" etc like a lot of other posters. i enjoy discussing mortal kombat and i thought i would extend the same courtesy with a rebuttal, though reading it back there does seem to be an element of spite

going back to your latest reply, i agree that story is definitely an important element and i'm hoping konquest in mkd will provide definitive information on the mk storyline once and for all. example: i hope all the confirmations of dead people in deadly alliance - sheeva, goro, lui kang - stay dead.
hopefully Konquest provides us with the details of the whole mk story and i hope they are ballsy enough to confirm stuff like reiko is definitely dead not just "defeated" or hsu hao will never come back etc etc. and endings (in whatever form) will build off that story with potential tangents for all characters.

Awesome post people. Keep them coming.

i'll add to stuff i've already said. what about a complex damage system? i know it would be really cool to have slash marks and bruises in actual places where you inflict the damage. i think mkda (only had facial damage) was triggered by where your life bar was at, therefore exhibited a sort of low, medium, high, brutal level of damage. so i hope they improve on that low/med/high system and make it a little more complex eg if i hit the nose it should break, and no gashes should appear unless a weapon has been to work.

this is not a major aspect but i think in mk1 the whole blood thing attracted many gamers so perhaps now a more complex bleeding system and damage system would actually attract a whole swag of gamers that are into SC and tekken.

I think that there should be:

More komplex fighting engine.
More komplex story.
Less B-S kharakters.
Kooler fatalities.
More secrets(NOT the krypt, i hated that.)
More details and small things, like menus, win poses, graphical damage,etc...
Kooler animations( things such as throws, kicks, and so forth...



That is all i kan think of for now.

Improvements they should make.

Better fatalities. Multiple fatalities would be nice too. And stage fatalities, which are coming back anyway.

Less useless crap in the Krypt. Takes ages looking for the good stuff without a guide faq.

Some fighting styles need work. Hsu Hao's wrestling should have had a lot more throws and grabs.

Better secret characters than Mokap and Blaze.

An expanded Practice mode would be nice. Where you can set the Opponents "AI" and all. And try out certain Combo's and whatever else you want to try ( Like Tekken :x )

Besides Arcade. I want a good story mode for the already existing playable characters :x. I want an intro, and a nice ending. NOT FMV please. Just an expanded ending. Dialogue before a fight starts, and when it ends. This only in the story mode of course. Not in Arcade.

A library... What? A library??! Well. yes. With the complete coverage of the MK Lore and character bio's of all characters that they ever created. Perhaps unlockable pieces of information you can achieve in the new Konquest mode.

Fitting sounds. Don't let them all characters sounds alike.

Dont give away Secret characters!!! Not untill 6 months after release.. This INCLUDES the number of secret characters in the game, NO matter how much the kiddies whine about them.

Bosses that do fatalities on YOU =) And they SHOULDNT be playable from the start.

I know its too late.. but.. More then 1 sub-boss.
Besides the typical Giant trasher you could also make a very swift lethal sub boss that attacks mainly with sharpweapons and quickattacks. Or a boss that focuses on Ensnaring and long ranged attacks. I dunno.. Some variety :3

Weapon variety.

Special Move variety. While in MK:DA it wasent that bad. But let those projectiles do something different. Like how subzero freezes you, or Scorpion pulls you in. Not another boring fireball like Sindel and Kabal got in MK3.

FINISH IT!!! DONT GIVE US AN UNFINISHED GAME EVER AGAIN! Really. MK:DA wasen't really finished or polished.

Tho, on the other hand. I never expected Custom characters, Multi-tiered and interactive levels, Awesome Minigames, Hara kiri. And the fightingstyles and weapons that return from MK:DA are pretty damn sweet as well. Knowing that the MK team is creating more ( hopefull sweet) fatalities, adding visible damage on characters during fights, having an expanded RPG like Konquest mode and the Dragonking ( Better make him awesome :x ). I'll prolly buy this game

Wow, a lot of you said very interesting stuff and things even i wouldn't have though of. I think that tonythetiger said a good point.

I don't think i would want alternate endings, i mean your character wins and there should only be his one ending on what he did when he or she won the battles. As for the fighting styles, i would say that overall they were good although some of them were overlapping each other. Like hsu hao's sun moon thing that just mimicked kano. As for the ninjitsu, i would say that it is probably better represented in this game. In other games it has them doing all these fancy moves like jumping twenty feet into the air grabbing a person and them slamming them down. Ninjitsu is more about joint locks, pressure points and quick take downs. Its just very flashy in those other games like VF and DOA. So, there is no chance that you will see scorpion doing crazy crap like that no matter how cool and flashy it is.

Most of half of the fatalities were good in MKDA. Many people think they are the best just because it is in 3D and is more complete and cool looking. You can't honestly tell me that Quan Chi's fatality was even good enough to rank poor. It really really really sucked. It would be good to have at least two fatalities, even if you have to rehash some old ones, i mean there have been really good ones. And i like stage fatalities. those are being brought back so that is good, along with death traps which i assume are two different things since they are mentioned as seperate things.

I like the two different costumes idea. I never like the whole same suit different color thing. I hated playing street fighter and each button had a different color and they all SUCKED and were UGLY. I hated trying to find which button had the original color. I hated playing ryu with an orange gi and and blue head band. Ugghh terrible. Lets not even bother trying to head in that direction.

I kinda like hidden characters. I think there should be one or two. Each with ther own fighting styles moves and fatalities and endings. Or at least endings and fatalities. Trust me, blaze and mokap weren't that good. Neither was noob, goro or that ridiculous character meat in MK4.

As for the fmv endings im not too sure about. The main reason they toke them out was it wasn't very explanatory. But i did like to see them talk and fight and get killed in real time motion. The most confusing ending was Reiko's. It showed him going into a portal to outworld and putting on the helmet of shao kahn. So was he shao Kahn? Don't know it never said, it just ended. In the gbc version it said that he returned to outworld to torture the earth realm like he did in ages past. So that stated that it was shao kahn in disguise. Which just leads to the question of who the hell is reiko? His bio said that he was thought to have been killed in the war between the gods and shinnok. So maybe the real one was killed and kahn disguised himself as him. So while i think the FMV endings are cool i don't see why they should have them if they aren't going to explain it. Someone said that sub's ending in MKDA was somewhat incomplete. He defeated the deadly alliance, went home with an injured frost and promised to serve raiden in protecting the earthrealm. What is incomplete about that?

I agree that each character should have cool poses that don't overlap each other. They each should be unique to that characters personality and fighting styles.

I think illusion said that the juggles weren't realistic and that they should be more like the MKT was. When was the last time you played MKT. Those combo's were even less realistic with the computer hitting you with a 15 hit combo and you trying to do a combo memorizing these complicated button combinations. I mean, come on, they brutalities for crying out loud that were just complicated combos. The combos in MKDA were fine.

I think the devolpment of MKDA was still kinda clinging to the old Mks.It truly didn't feel like a 3D game.It had some elements but it still felt a little underdeveloped.The fighting system was really the only gripe I had with DA.They need to completely leave behind the old stuff because they don'tworkere. They need to get rid of block damage for normal attacks and combos.Even if they borrow from other fighting games. If it make MK6 come out with a 10 out of 10 then I'm all for it.