Personally I don't agree with you...I hope we get to see all of what you've listed in MK:D. What I WOULDN'T like to see is a tendency to repeat the same thing in one game (ie. almost all the characters fatalities involved be-heading in MK:DA and exploding in MK3). I wouldn't mind seeing a few torso rips, decapitations, exploding as long as they are original and one of them doesn't dominate the game. Though I think with the new dismemberment system we will be able to enjoy all of those and many more ways to kill your opponent.

As for good Vs bad characters...I don't mind. Make stories interesting in what ever way you want ed. He hasn't let us down yet :)

Great, great list.

Revenge story elements have sort of gotten boring. I can think of quite a few of them.

The entire "Special Forces vs. Black Dragon" story should be over with by now.

ErmacMK5 Wrote: 08.Villian's turning good: First it was Sub-Zero; then it was Kitana, then Cyrax. It gets old to say the least. Keep the baddies bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a hero turn evil for once.

Sub-Zero and Cyrax were never really villains. Sub (the younger) was always good; in the official MK2 comic he immediately befriends Liu Kang and Kung Lao. I wouldn't really consider Cyrax a villain because he only ever posed a threat to one good guy: Sub. As for Kitana, I don't think she ever had evil intentions; she was on the good guys' team since her first appearence in MK2, really.

01.Decapitation fatalities: I'm sorry, these are played out. Everyone in MKDA had some sort of decapitation/ head explosion Fatality. Let them go. It's old.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. I love decapitation fatalitys.

02.Kliched Story elements: "As beautiful as she is deadly", "the silent personal assassin". Shut the fuck up. I've heard that story 20 times.

Yeah, your right.

03.Explosion fatalities: These are cliched. Let one person have them, and think of different things to do than make an opponent blow up.

Only one person?!

04.Hideous visages under Lin Keui Masks: No more Masked assassins who have Skulls, Lizard heads, Disturbing psuedo-skulls, or anything else underneath their mask. It's old and played out.

I agree. Having a hidden disfiguered face is played out(Scorpion, Reptile, Mileena, ect.)

05.Torso Rip fatalities: These are less cliched than the other two, but still are pretty cliched. It's sad that the coolest fatality ever, Kung Lao's slice has never been imitated once, but the Torso rip has been done to death.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

06.Scorpion's enemy narrowly escaping: As much as I love Quan Chi, letting Scorpion kill Quan Chi would finally give his character a new angle. The vengeance angle has gotten stale.

Yeah. Isn't it amazing that Scorpion's enemy always somehow escapes?

07.Noob Saibot performs an important act..yet is still treated like a throw away character: Noob Saibot was our first exposure to the Netherealm, he killed Goro, yet people still treat him like a throw away. I'd like Noob to get some plot recognition.

It's sad that Noob Saibot is always someones bitch, just like Reptile.

08.Villian's turning good: First it was Sub-Zero, then it was Kitana, then Cyrax. It gets old to say the least. Keep the baddies bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a hero turn evil for once.

Sub Zero was never evil. I don't recall Kitana being evil. Although I agree it would be cool to see a good guy turn bad, mabye Liu Kang.

Why do a decapitation when you can rip someones brain out? Why do a torso rip when you could do something like slice the opponent down the middle. Those are both a lot less stale than the other fatalities mentioned. I don't care if someone turns into a Hydra and does a torso rip. It's still a torso rip. The actual effect that fatalities have on the opponents body should vary.

As for Sub-Zero, The Lin Keui was an organization for evil. They were assassins. Despite the fact that Sub-Zero was on the good side of the outworld battle, his profession involved ending people's lives to make a profit. That's not exactly heroic. Same goes for Cyrax.

Kitana was also an assassin. She served under Shao Kahn for thousands of years before revolting and joining the good side. I imagine she killed many a good people for her emperor over those milenium. Regardless of intent, Kitana was evil.

cartmansp Wrote: 01.Decapitation fatalities: I'm sorry, these are played out. Everyone in MKDA had some sort of decapitation/ head explosion Fatality. Let them go. It's old. Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. I love decapitation fatalitys. 02.Kliched Story elements: "As beautiful as she is deadly", "the silent personal assassin". Shut the fuck up. I've heard that story 20 times. Yeah, your right. 03.Explosion fatalities: These are cliched. Let one person have them, and think of different things to do than make an opponent blow up. Only one person?! 04.Hideous visages under Lin Keui Masks: No more Masked assassins who have Skulls, Lizard heads, Disturbing psuedo-skulls, or anything else underneath their mask. It's old and played out. I agree. Having a hidden disfiguered face is played out(Scorpion, Reptile, Mileena, ect.) 05.Torso Rip fatalities: These are less cliched than the other two, but still are pretty cliched. It's sad that the coolest fatality ever, Kung Lao's slice has never been imitated once, but the Torso rip has been done to death. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. 06.Scorpion's enemy narrowly escaping: As much as I love Quan Chi, letting Scorpion kill Quan Chi would finally give his character a new angle. The vengeance angle has gotten stale. Yeah. Isn't it amazing that Scorpion's enemy always somehow escapes? 07.Noob Saibot performs an important act..yet is still treated like a throw away character: Noob Saibot was our first exposure to the Netherealm, he killed Goro, yet people still treat him like a throw away. I'd like Noob to get some plot recognition. It's sad that Noob Saibot is always someones bitch, just like Reptile. 08.Villian's turning good: First it was Sub-Zero, then it was Kitana, then Cyrax. It gets old to say the least. Keep the baddies bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a hero turn evil for once. Sub Zero was never evil. I don't recall Kitana being evil. Although I agree it would be cool to see a good guy turn bad, mabye Liu Kang.

Why do a decapitation when you can rip someones brain out? Why do a torso rip when you could do something like slice the opponent down the middle.

How many ways are there to pull someones brain out or slice someone down the middle? Mabye pull someones brain out with your hand. Mabye slice someone on half with a hat or sword. After that there is pretty much nothing else to do

There are tons of ways to decapitate someone or rip their torsos off. (Bite someones head off, ripping it off with your hand, using your telekinetic powers to decapitate someone, smacking someones head off with a hammer, melting their head off with a laser,ect)


As for Sub-Zero, The Lin Keui was an organization for evil. They were assassins. Despite the fact that Sub-Zero was on the good side of the outworld battle, his profession involved ending people's lives to make a profit. That's not exactly heroic. Same goes for Cyrax.

I was refering to the younger Sub Zero. The younger Sub Zero never liked killing people, that's why he changed the Lin Kuei to a force for good.

Kitana was also an assassin. She served under Shao Kahn for thousands of years before revolting and joining the good side. I imagine she killed many a good people for her emperor over those milenium. Regardless of intent, Kitana was evil.

You got me there. I guess she was evil.

I just think it'd be cool if they gave the female fighters like Sindel and Kitana actual costumes rather than just overly decorative bathing suits lol. I mean really, who would wear something like that? Sure, sure, increased range of motion and light weight blah, blah, blah... Call me conservative (Haha, me conservative.. That's a joke in itself =P) but I'd rather see Kitana wearing something to truly show she's a princess and not a beach bunny.

Kitana: What? I'm going to fight to the death!? COOL! Let me get my bikini!

I didn't mean to imply everyone has to have a brain rip. What I meant is everyone can have a signature effect for their fatality.

I'll take the cast of MK2, and apply this to them. Say I wanted everyone to have their own type of fatality I could do:

Liu Kang- Dragon Bite (A Torso fatality)
Kung Lao- Hat Slice
Johnny Cage- Brain Rip
Reptile- Acid Spit (A Skin removal fatality)
Sub-Zero-Head and Spine Rip (Decapitation)
Shang Tsung- Soul Steal
Kitana-Kiss of Death (Explosion)
Jax-Arm Rip
Mileena-Leg Rip+ Decapitate
Baraka- Impale and Lift
Scorpion- Toasty
Raiden- Uppercut explosion (Head remains)

I used the cast of MK2 because we don't have the whole MKD cast figured out. It was just an example. Anyway, avoiding 20 decapitation fatalities would be nice. I think it would be all right if the generic fatality types were second fatalities, but you've gotta do something unique with these guys. Atleast that's my feeling.

cartmansp Wrote: Why do a decapitation when you can rip someones brain out? Why do a torso rip when you could do something like slice the opponent down the middle. How many ways are there to pull someones brain out or slice someone down the middle? Mabye pull someones brain out with your hand. Mabye slice someone on half with a hat or sword. After that there is pretty much nothing else to do There are tons of ways to decapitate someone or rip their torsos off. (Bite someones head off, ripping it off with your hand, using your telekinetic powers to decapitate someone, smacking someones head off with a hammer, melting their head off with a laser,ect) As for Sub-Zero, The Lin Keui was an organization for evil. They were assassins. Despite the fact that Sub-Zero was on the good side of the outworld battle, his profession involved ending people's lives to make a profit. That's not exactly heroic. Same goes for Cyrax. I was refering to the younger Sub Zero. The younger Sub Zero never liked killing people, that's why he changed the Lin Kuei to a force for good. Kitana was also an assassin. She served under Shao Kahn for thousands of years before revolting and joining the good side. I imagine she killed many a good people for her emperor over those milenium. Regardless of intent, Kitana was evil. You got me there. I guess she was evil.

ErmacMK5 Wrote: I didn't mean to imply everyone has to have a brain rip. What I meant is everyone can have a signature effect for their fatality. I'll take the cast of MK2, and apply this to them. Say I wanted everyone to have their own type of fatality I could do: Liu Kang- Dragon Bite (A Torso fatality) Kung Lao- Hat Slice Johnny Cage- Brain Rip Reptile- Acid Spit (A Skin removal fatality) Sub-Zero-Head and Spine Rip (Decapitation) Shang Tsung- Soul Steal Kitana-Kiss of Death (Explosion) Jax-Arm Rip Mileena-Leg Rip+ Decapitate Baraka- Impale and Lift Scorpion- Toasty Raiden- Uppercut explosion (Head remains) I used the cast of MK2 because we don't have the whole MKD cast figured out. It was just an example. Anyway, avoiding 20 decapitation fatalities would be nice. I think it would be all right if the generic fatality types were second fatalities, but you've gotta do something unique with these guys. Atleast that's my feeling. .

Oh, I get what you're saying. I'm sure the fatalitys in MK:Deception will be unique and creative.

They're gonna have at least 48 fatalities.. and they said they'd get more then 24 characters with fatals. So don't be suprised to see decaps and explosions all the time.

most of the things you stated they stoped doing them in the 2d games..And not to mentiond..id like to see you make 6 games and try to make each and everyone have there own style..its not a easy task my friend..so instead of hating try to wait and see wut deception has to offer b4 you start shitting bricks..I agree with you on and off..
Agree - 10%
Disagree - 90%
jus my opinion not tryin to be a douche..
but give deception a chance b4 you post shit like that..

01.Decapitation fatalities: I'm sorry, these are played out. Everyone in MKDA had some sort of decapitation/ head explosion Fatality. Let them go. It's old.

48 Fatalities. No choice.

02.Kliched Story elements: "As beautiful as she is deadly", "the silent personal assassin". Shut the fuck up. I've heard that story 20 times.

I've got one for you. Blah blah blah FINDS HIMSELF blah blah blah FINDS HIMSELF IN blah blah blah. They used that damn phrase twenty-five times, or something close in MKT's bios and endings.

03.Explosion fatalities: These are cliched. Let one person have them, and think of different things to do than make an opponent blow up.

48.

04.Hideous visages under Lin Keui Masks: No more Masked assassins who have Skulls, Lizard heads, Disturbing psuedo-skulls, or anything else underneath their mask. It's old and played out.

Smoke (pre-cyborg), Rain (as far as we know), and both Sub-Zeros have been perfectly normal. Saibot, Reptile, Scorpion, and Ermac are the ones who look freaky. It kinda balances out.

05.Torso Rip fatalities: These are less cliched than the other two, but still are pretty cliched. It's sad that the coolest fatality ever, Kung Lao's slice has never been imitated once, but the Torso rip has been done to death.

48. But I'm sure we'll see one vertical slice.

06.Scorpion's enemy narrowly escaping: As much as I love Quan Chi, letting Scorpion kill Quan Chi would finally give his character a new angle. The vengeance angle has gotten stale.

Totally agree with you here.

07.Noob Saibot performs an important act..yet is still treated like a throw away character: Noob Saibot was our first exposure to the Netherealm, he killed Goro, yet people still treat him like a throw away. I'd like Noob to get some plot recognition.

Noob Saibot has never done anything worth a damn other than killing Goro. He was around for 2 games and a revision before we even knew what his deal was, and in that time, he had no original moves, only Scorpion's MKII Spear. MK3, UMK3: Nothing.

But let's get to storyline: MKII, MK3, UMK3 - none. MKT, we find out he works for Shinnok, good. MK4 - no storyline, no ending, again. We are supposed to assume he is still working for Shinnok. MKTE - Now apparently working for Kahn full-time, kills Goro.

Being the first character from the netherrealm means nothing. But technically, Scorpion was our first exposure to that, way back...

08. Villians turning good: First it was Sub-Zero; then it was Kitana, then Cyrax. It gets old to say the least. Keep the baddies bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a hero turn evil for once.

Okay, now this depends. I view evil as intentful maliciousness, so... That said: MKI Sub-Zero was not evil, just a paid assassin. He did what he was paid to do. I'm sure he didn't DESIRE to take lives - it was his job. Kitana was NEVER evil, she just did what Kahn told her to. I am certain she never enjoyed taking lives. To brand her as evil because of what she was ordered to do is presumptuous. To use a cliche myself; Hitler was evil, but not all of his soldiers were... And Cyrax was...well, not really evil, just doing what he was programmed to. Don't call him evil - fix that tag to his programmers. As we saw from his MKG ending, there was a good person underneath that mask. This brings to mind There's never been a real shift of good/evil allegiances in the MK series. The closest you get is Goro, and as we saw, he is an honorable individual.

azazis Wrote: They're gonna have at least 48 fatalities.. and they said they'd get more then 24 characters with fatals. So don't be suprised to see decaps and explosions all the time.

Not to mention limb amputations - of which we have already seen quite a few of. I don't know about any of you but I'm already getting tired of them...

I agree about most of the fatalities, paticurally the head rips. At this point it just seems like something to do when the creators can't think of anything better. It's an easy-out.

ErmacMK5 Wrote: 06.Scorpion's enemy narrowly escaping: As much as I love Quan Chi, letting Scorpion kill Quan Chi would finally give his character a new angle. The vengeance angle has gotten stale.

I feel the same way about Scorpion and Quan Chi. Quan Chi's one of my favorites characters, and I'd hate to see him taken out of the game, but Scorpion, for the love of God, needs something else to do.

ErmacMK5 Wrote: 07.Noob Saibot performs an important act..yet is still treated like a throw away character: Noob Saibot was our first exposure to the Netherealm, he killed Goro, yet people still treat him like a throw away. I'd like Noob to get some plot recognition.

I agree. Noob was gaining some momentum in MKT, but they cut him off at 4 and then forgot about him until MK:TE. Hopefully in Deception Noob will get his due.

ErmacMK5 Wrote: 08.Villian's turning good: First it was Sub-Zero; then it was Kitana, then Cyrax. It gets old to say the least. Keep the baddies bad. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a hero turn evil for once.

Firstly, I want to say thanks for someone else remembering that Kitana was once evil.
Regardless of whether Sub-Zero can be really labeled "evil," (personally I think nuetral'd fit better) or whether Cyrax or Sindel was really evil, I agree we've seen too many reformed characters, and we could use some good guys turn evil. Tanya and maybe Li Mei are the only ones at this point.

One cliche I'm getting tired of is "The last Black Dragon member." First it was Jarek. Then Kano was the last. NOw we have Kira. For one thing, if I was Black Dragon member and every one else was killed by the Special Forces or Red Dragon, I for one, would lay low and move on with life.

Love the list.

Kitana was evil btw.

I personally dont want to see:

1o Females (Kitana, Jade, Li mei, Mileena, Sindel, Tanya, Kira, Sheeva, Frost, and all the other ones but Ashrah and Sonya) in a stupid half naked bikini that looks so alike!

So far only Mileena looks aweosme, the others stupid. And only Sonya and Ashrah (so far) manage to keep their pants on.

2o Scorpions same story. Please do something about it.

Blank Eyes: I'll admit it looks badass but I think we have enough people with blank eyes(Scorpion, Sub Zero, Raiden, Sindel, Ermac, Noob Saibot, Hotaru,) I'm betting Liu Kang will have the "blank" look.

Sub-Zero and Nightwolf shouldn't have them. They are both humans. Sindel shouldn't have them now that she's been restored to her original mortality. The others should have them.


What I hate though is that the second Noob or Scorpion take off their masks they don't have eyes. That was always stupid to me. But whatever, I guess when you have a skull under your mask...

cartmansp Wrote: Blank Eyes: I'll admit it looks badass but I think we have enough people with blank eyes(Scorpion, Sub Zero, Raiden, Sindel, Ermac, Noob Saibot, Hotaru,) I'm betting Liu Kang will have the "blank" look.

Here's a "Kliche" I'd like to see avoided.
Using 'K' to replace nearly every leading 'C'

It's a mortal kombat board. Get used to it.

darthtsung Wrote: Here's a "Kliche" I'd like to see avoided. Using 'K' to replace nearly every leading 'C'

ErmacMK5, I have been a member of this board since back in the gamers.com days. That is to say, before mortalkombatonline hosted it's own board.

I am used to it.

The post was about MK "Kliches", and I merely stated my opinion. If you can't handle an opinion, it sounds like you are the one who needs to "get used to it."

I was just kidding..calm down.

darthtsung Wrote: ErmacMK5, I have been a member of this board since back in the gamers.com days. That is to say, before mortalkombatonline hosted it's own board. I am used to it. The post was about MK "Kliches", and I merely stated my opinion. If you can't handle an opinion, it sounds like you are the one who needs to "get used to it."

darthtsung Wrote: ErmacMK5, I have been a member of this board since back in the gamers.com days. That is to say, before mortalkombatonline hosted it's own board. I am used to it. The post was about MK "Kliches", and I merely stated my opinion. If you can't handle an opinion, it sounds like you are the one who needs to "get used to it."

Didn't you see the little smiley face he posted()?

He was just joking around. Damn, you're too sensitive. (no offense)

I know.
I am calm.

Here's a cliche done to death, that I hope not to see again.

The "last" living member of the Black Dragon. They did it with Jarek in MK4, brought Kano back for MKDA (understandable, as Jarek sucked) and I hope they avoid it for Kira. Otherwise how many more "last" surviving members of the Black Dragon, are we gonna see in future.