What are these other things you speak of, and tell me why NW should be higher and why Mileena isn't low tier? I completely agree with the BRC vs Kobra thing, but I do not think NS is better than Kobra. Most of the things Kobra players are using now have been discovered by Greg(Reptilestyle), and way after u quit at that, so I don't think you know why he truly is the shit.

Please inform me with detail, for I want this list to be as accurate as can be, and to me it already is, but with you telling me more instead of just saying him and her should be there and there would be helpful.

Also bill, remember that you quit this game a month ago, and a lot of the shit we're judging the list off is "new shit" that wasn't used when you play.

Owned.

Thanx bro,and everyone else that has an appreciation for our list. We put alot of careful thought into making it, and i want to give a shout out to the mods for giving us a stickey!!! WooHoo!

_Neo_ As for your comment for our out-of-place rankings, I give you nothing but respect as a high level player and would love to here your personal feedback (on here or aim), and I would really appreciate if you could demonstrate it first hand one of these nights for me online(Im sure you can find 30min to part from DOA for old times sake :) )

DOA3?? mmmmmmmmm NAH.

Btw, about Scorpion, I'm going to try out his Mugai Ryu some more to see what you mean.

yo, RS....hit me up on aim.


versatile...."play now, u quit a month ago" lol. actually, its been much more then a month....almost 2 months now but that wont change the fact that i'll beat your best character with havik. so with that in mind i guess not much has changed over the last 2 months a lol.

I'm no pro at Mk but I think from personal experience Ashrah is too high. She has some real slow attacks except for her weapon. NW should be higher like around 8 or 9. This is from personal experience and is imo so take it or leave it. Also good job on the list thanks for putting in the effort.

The lsit looks all right except for a few things. Scorp is brken but im not sure hes any better than LK, who i will pick over him anytime. Kira does not deserve last. IMO kabal should be there. There is nothing about him that can be used well. AS for the top 5, i am not too sure about kobra.Sure lots of things have been happening with him, but until players get used to his new tactics and figure out counters he cannot deserve his current spot over other characters who have been playtested to death. I agree that NS should move up. Best offence combined with great throws, ring ability, optimum utilising of traps, couples with the ability to turtle and infinite combos make NS a formidable opponent. I think Mileena's low placing has more to do with her lack of power than her styles, which deserve better. Sub zero is not high tier, but deserves better. All sub players who know their stuff know that sub does not win with cold shoulders or devestating 84% combos, but with mind games and ring intelligence. The clone is the most maligned and yet sub's most useful weapon. From acting as a free breaker against aggresive players to effective turtlin against defensive players with lower health, to the ability to create openins, the clone has a lot of uses. most people sidestep round a clone. keep in the same planeas him, creatin chances such as sudden stop start attacks timed when the opponent steps into his next plane, before he reaches his destination. Use death traps with a sidestepping opponent as well. Sub has his share of safe moves, and is a lot more fluid than in mkda. he just has to be alternated between kori and shotokan. Mind games. mind games.
If i could, i would play with you guys. but my damn set is modified, which means i am limited to playin with local players and occasionally xbox live at a friend's home. I win my share of games pretty easily. i would like to test myself against u guys next time

Interesting post mindripper. I tried out that Ice Clone strategy and it works, even against Onaga. I don't think Kabal should be placed THAT low. His Sun Bin style is pretty good and the same goes for Hookswords. Goju Ryu is the one main bad thing about him. It should be awesome, but they didn't do a good job with it. Perhaps low/mid tier for him.

Mileena is a rather weak fighter overall, but fast (not really surprising...). I don't think it's just her lack of power that makes her low tier. I think it may also have to do with her lack of usefulness, at least to me. She has short, easy combos which is a good thing, but overall, I don't find her to be that useful.

With Havik? Ok, I'll talk to you on AIM about a time for us to play that then. Your Havik vs my best chars (Sub/NS/Bo).

I honestly sometimes think there's something mentally wrong with you...like no joke, and no offense. I think you either have security issues or that you're on some kind of power trip. You're cool most of the times, but other times you're just damn right trippy and disturbing. Like yesterday on AIM you tell me that myself,rs and others suck at video games and that it's the only reason we're playing this when there's more "advanced things to play". Like where the fuck did that come from? Or even here for instance, a normal person would reply about why Mileena should be higher, why Nightwolf should be higher, and point out CLEARLY the other things he/she find wrong with the list. You, however, yap on about how your Havik would beat my best chars and how nothing has changed. If you think Kobra should be lower, state why dude. You don't just half do shit. Shoving your "facts" down people's throats without a clearheaded explanation as to why you feel the way you feel just doesn't work these days. In fact, if you look back in History it never worked at all.

I try to get along with you, and you're cool most of the times, but other times you just annoy me..lol.

He just aint got anything better to do than let his friends do all the work findin shit out, then regurgitate it back to us like he's god or something. It's kinda obvious, epecially when he "stepped down" from Deception he pointed out his friend found out basically everything he had shown us.

WTF? Bill you're a douche, plain n simple!
Granted, I don't talk with Verse as much as I used to, but don't be spittin that kinda hate towards my friends! Fuck that "truce" i offered you, fuck you, and don't bother showing yourself until you get your head out of your fuckin ass!

Flaming is not allowed. Since always and don't edit my edit again, show some respect. -RedScorpio

Ya, good job guys and thanks for the list. I think I agree with almost all of the placements

I think that for the people who are destroying other players with low tier characters (according to this list) are no doubt very very good with a certain character; but also should take into account that low tier characters typically aren't used a lot, especially by some of the top 100 players, and that a good reason you may be owning people is because they are not used to playing against certain characters, and therefore don't exactly know whats about to come at them.
Not doubting anyones skill, but for example: I haven't played a lot against Ashrah, and I played some guy (PS2) named "Aldagod" a week ago and I definitely got beat badly. I believe with some practice I could predict what might be coming at me and do a little better, but this guy has the best Ashrah I've ever played against.
Anyways, my point was that it might be beneficial to develop a good strategy with a not commonly used character.

_NE0_ .... who did you play as on PS2 ... T0MBRADY?

ashrash- is junk!

I have one question:Why is Kira last?Her styles are amazingly powerful and she has awesome juggles.There are a lot of chaaracters that could be last but not her.The thing about tier lists are is that they are based upon other peoples opinions.One persons tier list could be completely different from anothers.On my list,Tanya would be number 1.Thats just my opinion.This list does get pretty damn close to the average and I congratulate the creator for that but it's just his opinion.No offense but you can never really get a true tier list.

Top-tiers aren't opinions.Just like the introduction of the thread says "This is no who's the coolest character?" poll.Top-tiers are determined by a character's potential:50/50 mix ups,safety,throws,damage,etc.It's what makes this discussion somewhat interesting since it doesn't matter what you think about BRC.He's still top-tier as far as high level play is concerned.

Kira has potential to win,but so does every character in MK:D with their own mix ups.It's just that her damage cannot be compared to top-tiers.Kira could win against BRC and others;however,that would only be the case if your opponent would guess incorrectly more than YOU will ever do.BRC needs only one mix up to cost you possibly half of your life bar while Kira would need a possible 4-5 mix ups to make up the damage that BRC can do.Remember,you'd have to guess correctly about BRC's mix ups a few times,and then your opponent would have to guess 4-5 times incorrectly.What are the odds of that?It will rarely happen especially against good players.That's what makes top-tiers in MK:D and that's the case with most top-tiers Vs. low-tiers.

Specifically though,Kira's second stance seems to be her best one.2 launches in it and hits mid.After it (I think),you can do her mist and then throw the opponent.This is all inescapable I believe.However,her throw is simply trash compared to others.Both you and your opponent recover approximately at the same time.So,no 50/50 mix ups for her,not to mention anything free.This is her biggest downfall which prevents her from being anything better than a simple mid tier.She also has d+4 (not sure about the notation) which many characters have.It hits low and gives her a 50/50 mix up to say the least.

I just messed around with her quickly the other day,and I really doubt someone can find something with her that would make her more than a mere mid tier at best.By the way,she could have an infinite with:
Second Stance, 2, Mist, SS 2, Mist, SS 2, Mist, (or something like that) etc. but I highly doubt it works,and even if it worked,it would be a time infinite combo due to damage reduction.

Yes, this infinite exists...but like you said, it will eventually do no damage and ends up being a time infinite like bo's puke one.

Anyone else have trouble doing step infinites online? I have yet to do one...except the puke one...not that i'd want to use them, just wanted to try them out lol...

So she does have that infinite.Oh well,I don't think it helps her much.On a side note,I played a Kira player today,and that individual played exactly as I described it above.

Anyone else have trouble doing step infinites online? I have yet to do one...except the puke one...not that i'd want to use them, just wanted to try them out lol...

Some of them don't work for whatever reason.BRC's does work and so does Kira's.However,you can't do two Spears in a row with Scorpion.Jinko can't do any sidestep infinite combos either.

Well, I think it's safe to say that this list has sparked the kind of MK:D Kharacter discussion that the game totally deserves. This list is quite well done. But I think it's quite obvious that each of us as individual players with individual playing styles could all make a similar list with our own order and they'd all be right based on your style. IE: I'd totally have Scorpion, Bo'Rai Cho, Baraka, Sub-Zero & Jade (maybe Kabal instead) as my top 5. I tend to friggin dominate with those fighters.

MKL, you are being called out by a few people.
Play or hush

TOKombatant, the tier list isnt about who you're best with. I'm best with *in order) Sub-Zero,Noob-Smoke,Scorpion,Darrius and Li Mei. They all deserve their tier spot despite my game with them all. It's just how it works.

Nice to see you posting again Steve(JRF)

I disagree with some of these. Ermac has a combo that does 50% damage that cant be broken. Kenshi if used right cant be touched. Sujinko is one of the fastest and strongest characters. I agree with boraicho and dariu being the strongest characters but scorpion? I would say darrius instead. night wolf has some of the best mixups.

well Bo' Rai Cho i expected to be up close to the top. hes 2nd in MKDA right? and he only seems better in MKD. he is a really good powerful character and even tho i dont like him (not cuz i think he sucks or any thing. just dont like his character in genral) i cant complain that hes top i guess.

Dairou is who really really shocks me being #2. hes a kool character and i really enjoy playing as him but i feel that theres a bit of chars that r better than him and easier to win with. i like him and all but imo his styles dont seem to flow all that great with each other.

Kobra... well... im not a fan of him. personally i only like his specials. but then after seeing my friend play as him who has never played MKD b4 he did pretty good with him. im not gonna argue saying he shouldnt be 3rd but i dont think he should. but i just cant give a real good reason y not.

Noob-Smoke is no shocker for me. imo he is the easiest to learn to use and to play with. plus hes... i mean they're very very good and strategic. lack of good combos but thats not what they're about really. glad to see them at #4 and totally agree with that.

Scorpion i gotta agree with too. he isnt as good as he is in MKDA but he still is pretty darn good.

ok now for some complaining (cmon u knew it was coming)....
(in no specific order of wich should be this or that)

Liu Kang. i find him to have great combos. atleast hes on the top of the mid tier but i think he should be top tier but still #6. like i said he has great combos that r effective and powerful. actually i do gotta say the Nunchuka's seem weaker in MKD than in MKDA but still effective and good. and his specials to me have always seemed to be very strategic. personally i guess im fine with him being mid tier as long as hes on top in the mid tier but plz tell me, y doesnt he make it as top?

to be honest im kinda surprised Darrius isnt top tier. im not sure where id have him btut some where. a friend of mine who has never played MKD so hasnt played as Darrius played against me and he turned out to be really good with Darrius. i think Darrius has the perfect mix of specials especially the side step charge move (cant remember name right now). he has i gotta say imo the best grab move in the game and all 3 of his styles r good. the Leopard style maybe not as strong as the other 2 and i dont care for it much really my self but nonetheless Darrius is an excellent character gameplay wise and i gotta say that he should be top tier. hes no where near my fav character in MKD or in MK at all but still i honestly think he shouldbe top tier. id like u to play with him more and give him a chance and hopefully see what im talking about. or atleast tell me y u have him where he is on the list?

i was gonna say some thing about Raiden, but im thinking that he does have some hella hard combos and it does take a good time to master him. i find him much better than in MKDA due to him having his teleport and torpedo moves back but still i dont see him as some one thats easy to just pick and play real good with right away or after just a short time. so i gotta say i agree where he is i guess.

Sub-Zero on the other hand.... come on now. imo just like in MKDA he is perfect! especially gameplay wise. im not sure if id say top tier cuz he can be difficult to play with for ppl who dont play with him much but imo he has the best special move ever. the freeze move. i think its always been the best. better than the spear. and besides that Sub-Zero is powerful and has a bunch of really good combos that r and arent style branch combos. can get some good juggles with him and every thing too. i really really think he should be up higher on the list.

man o man... i like a lil bit over half the roster of MKD but i aint gonna say o i think this person should be here on the list for every one. like imo i think Ermac maybe should be some where else but im fine with where hes at. i only have one other complaint that i really disagree with u on....

Kira is at the bottom? wtf? i want an explanation! i find her to have great combos. Kano in MKDA i think was actually a perfect character. really it isnt that hard to learn how to and to use Kira weither u played with Kano in KDA or not. her combos r easy to pull off especially in her 2nd style. and she has one of the best, if not the best weapons in the game imo. and her haveing that kiss special move from Sonya is sooooooo helpful and lets u get in an easy combo. i find her to be a very well rounded character that is very good. id say she should be some where in the mid tier atleast. plz explain to me y she is at the bottom of the entire list? she can be easy for a first timer to use. she is just so easy to use and very good. so i dont understand this. plz explain.

actually 1 more thing...

k well Hotaru isnt really up high but still i think he should be lower in the low tier. he doesnt have good combos really. kinda slow and gets left open imo a bit. the lava burst or what ever its called that he shoots at the ground honestly isnt that good. its alright but u gotta be at like a sweep distance. too close or too far it will miss. honestly id say hes the worse and should be #24. he should at the very least be at the bottom of the mid tier. if u do not change then plz explain.

"Dairou is who really really shocks me being #2. hes a kool character and i really enjoy playing as him but i feel that theres a bit of chars that r better than him and easier to win with. i like him and all but imo his styles dont seem to flow all that great with each other."

In MKD most characters don't need 3 styles to win. Please understand that. In fact, it's almost a waste of time to use anything but the character's best stance for the most part(with the exception of a few characters). So stance flow in this game is irrelevant.

Dairou's is number 2 basically because his distance game is near fucking unstoppable. d,b+2, tombstone drop,teleport, and juggling after tombstone connects. Neo explained it best in this topic, look back and read.

"Kobra... well... im not a fan of him. personally i only like his specials. but then after seeing my friend play as him who has never played MKD b4 he did pretty good with him. im not gonna argue saying he shouldnt be 3rd but i dont think he should. but i just cant give a real good reason y not."

It doesn't matter if you're a fan of Kobra or not. If your friend did good with him and it was his first time playing MKD that speaks volumes about the person he faced. I will take into consideration moving him if you can back up why you don't think he should be number 3 with some good reasons.


"Liu Kang. i find him to have great combos. atleast hes on the top of the mid tier but i think he should be top tier but still #6."

In most games the top tier characters are the top 5 characters. It just didn't seem right to ReptileStyle and myself to put Liu in the top tier. Besides, he deserves upper mid tier. He's strong and can handle almost anybody, but he lacks a real long distance threat, forcing him to come in to do his damage. This is a problem vs characters like NS,BRC,etc.


"like i said he has great combos that r effective and powerful. actually i do gotta say the Nunchuka's seem weaker in MKD than in MKDA but still effective and good."

Nunchuku is essentially useless in MKD. Jun Fan is the only stance you should be really using with Liu Kang, unless you are juggling, which even then Nunchuku shouldn't be used.

"and his specials to me have always seemed to be very strategic. personally i guess im fine with him being mid tier as long as hes on top in the mid tier but plz tell me, y doesnt he make it as top?"

Simple answer, because the characters above him have better tools and a more versatile game. I must admit at first we had a hard time deciding who should be low top tier and who should be uppermid between Scorpion and Liu Kang, but I believe we made the right decision by putting Scorpion where he is and Liu Kang where he is.



"i think Darrius has the perfect mix of specials especially the side step charge move (cant remember name right now). he has i gotta say imo the best grab move in the game and all 3 of his styles r good. the Leopard style maybe not as strong as the other 2 and i dont care for it much really my self but nonetheless Darrius is an excellent character gameplay wise and i gotta say that he should be top tier. hes no where near my fav character in MKD or in MK at all but still i honestly think he shouldbe top tier. id like u to play with him more and give him a chance and hopefully see what im talking about. or atleast tell me y u have him where he is on the list?"

I've played vs so much Darrius players and can use him as well, and while he's a great character, Darrius deserves his tier spot simply because he has a hard time controlling a lot of matches he is in. Darrius is one of those characters where you have lock down a sense of control(mentally) early to stand a true chance at winning the match. By landing d,f+3 or 3 you are pretty much in a guaranteed 50/50 situation. However, Darrius' distance game sucks ass, meaning he has to come in towards you. This is a problem vs a lot of characters, and since Darrius' range isn't the greatest, he has to get really close to make 3/throw(his best high/mid options) effective, since d,f+3 has decent range but hits low, making any mix up outside of real close range shitty or useless. Now this isn't a problem vs some characters, but look at Darrius vs NS,Kobra,Bo,Liu Kang,etc. They can all contain Darrius to the range they want him to be at. It's very hard to explan this through text. Next Thursday I may be available for some matches. Give me your PS2 gamer tag and I will show you what I am talking about.

"Sub-Zero on the other hand.... come on now. imo just like in MKDA he is perfect!"

No, MKDA Sub-Zero was a below average character. MKD Sub-Zero is ok.

"im not sure if id say top tier cuz he can be difficult to play with for ppl who dont play with him much but imo he has the best special move ever. the freeze move. i think its always been the best. better than the spear."

No, the spear has always historically been a better move than freeze. I think you mean to say that the freeze is the coolest move ever or something like that, which is something a Sub fan like myself can agree with(though I think the clone and air shower are cooler). However, in MKD the freeze can easily be stepped. At a distance that isn't very bad, but when most players step the freeze they approach you, closing the gap, which is a bad thing. The freeze has it's uses vs NS and other Sub-Zero players, but other than that it's not the greatest of moves.

"and besides that Sub-Zero is powerful and has a bunch of really good combos that r and arent style branch combos. can get some good juggles with him and every thing too. i really really think he should be up higher on the list."

There's no arguing that Sub has some of the most damaging juggles in MKD besides Shujinko,Kenshi and Jade, but landing that 53% juggle is a very hard thing to do. Not because it's difficult, because it really isn't, but mainly because Sub doesn't get many Kori: b+2 oppurtunities per match, and when you actually land one and go for the 53% you will get breakered, so some Sub players(like myself) prefer to just go with b+2,d+2,walk up 50/50(as long as they don't tech) since that cannot be breakered. It all depends on your opponent's playing style though. If you find they duck throws a lot, then you should be able to land the 53% around the round 2/round 3 point, but if they are very stubborn to ducking then your best bet is doing b+2,d+2 for a mere 25%. So while he has the damage, it's very hard to set up in an actual match.

"Kira is at the bottom? wtf? i want an explanation! i find her to have great combos. Kano in MKDA i think was actually a perfect character. really it isnt that hard to learn how to and to use Kira weither u played with Kano in KDA or not. her combos r easy to pull off especially in her 2nd style. and she has one of the best, if not the best weapons in the game imo. and her haveing that kiss special move from Sonya is sooooooo helpful and lets u get in an easy combo. i find her to be a very well rounded character that is very good. id say she should be some where in the mid tier atleast. plz explain to me y she is at the bottom of the entire list? she can be easy for a first timer to use. she is just so easy to use and very good. so i dont understand this. plz explain."

First note that Kira is not nearly as bad as Cyrax in MKDA, meaning she can win a lot of fights if you are really good with her. With that out of the way, Kira just lacks anything that's really good. Her in close game is mediocre, her distance game is mediocre, the kiss has gotten dramatically toned down when compared to it's MKDA version, and her mix ups don't lead to as much damage as others. She doesn't have the speed of Liu Kang, the defensive options of Noob-Smoke, or the damage of Bo Rai Cho. I'm not a Kira player myself, but others can give a better explanation as to why she is where she is.

I hope I helped to answer some of your questions Liu Kang.

Interesting posts. To me, Sub-Zero should be a bit higher on the list. With him, it's really more about a defensive strategy. It's true that his Freeze can be avoided (as well as many of the other projectiles in the game), but that's where the defensive strategy kicks in. Usually, when the Freeze misses, I find the opponent coming closer to Sub-Zero which leads to the Ice Clone. If Sub-Zero is backed up against a wall, I would use the King's Crown or Iron Horse combo in Shotokan instead. One of the things that makes Sub-Zero's Freeze better than Scorpion's Spear is the recovery time. Unfortunately for Scorpion, the recovery time for the Spear still sucks.

I know why he's considered below average in MK: DA. Although I can partially see what has been said about him in MK: DA, I still feel that he's much better than that.