

About Me
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funny u havent been online in a week, but u name just magically appears in the top 50.. u mean u havent played a name player in a week.
the glitch throw u are refering to only work with noob, and like 2 other guys, so i would really complain about it. u can get the sme effect off a glitch throw with any 60.
33 is not a glitch, it works from lag, so ur saying lag is a glitch now?? its not something u can do to everyone, it only works with bad lag. so u cant call 33 a glitch. if u jump away from a ft cause of the lag is that jump a glitch?? i mean u are performing a move that shouldnt be possible cause of the lag. didnt think so, stop with the broken shit, and how u dont use glitvhs. u used the biggest glitch in mkd, and still ran, and u wont play anyone now.
GET 360, so i can posted u dodgeing and running.
the more and more i thing u actaully put ur self on shadow, so people dont no u are on, this way u can opti and no one sees u.
u wanna see a nice glitch, brc vs ur cast. :) u have way to much faith in midway to fix stuff.
the glitch throw u are refering to only work with noob, and like 2 other guys, so i would really complain about it. u can get the sme effect off a glitch throw with any 60.
33 is not a glitch, it works from lag, so ur saying lag is a glitch now?? its not something u can do to everyone, it only works with bad lag. so u cant call 33 a glitch. if u jump away from a ft cause of the lag is that jump a glitch?? i mean u are performing a move that shouldnt be possible cause of the lag. didnt think so, stop with the broken shit, and how u dont use glitvhs. u used the biggest glitch in mkd, and still ran, and u wont play anyone now.
GET 360, so i can posted u dodgeing and running.
the more and more i thing u actaully put ur self on shadow, so people dont no u are on, this way u can opti and no one sees u.
u wanna see a nice glitch, brc vs ur cast. :) u have way to much faith in midway to fix stuff.
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redsaleen02 Wrote:
funny u havent been online in a week, but u name just magically appears in the top 50.. u mean u havent played a name player in a week.
the glitch throw u are refering to only work with noob, and like 2 other guys, so i would really complain about it. u can get the sme effect off a glitch throw with any 60.
33 is not a glitch, it works from lag, so ur saying lag is a glitch now?? its not something u can do to everyone, it only works with bad lag. so u cant call 33 a glitch. if u jump away from a ft cause of the lag is that jump a glitch?? i mean u are performing a move that shouldnt be possible cause of the lag. didnt think so, stop with the broken shit, and how u dont use glitvhs. u used the biggest glitch in mkd, and still ran, and u wont play anyone now.
GET 360, so i can posted u dodgeing and running.
the more and more i thing u actaully put ur self on shadow, so people dont no u are on, this way u can opti and no one sees u.
u wanna see a nice glitch, brc vs ur cast. :) u have way to much faith in midway to fix stuff.
funny u havent been online in a week, but u name just magically appears in the top 50.. u mean u havent played a name player in a week.
the glitch throw u are refering to only work with noob, and like 2 other guys, so i would really complain about it. u can get the sme effect off a glitch throw with any 60.
33 is not a glitch, it works from lag, so ur saying lag is a glitch now?? its not something u can do to everyone, it only works with bad lag. so u cant call 33 a glitch. if u jump away from a ft cause of the lag is that jump a glitch?? i mean u are performing a move that shouldnt be possible cause of the lag. didnt think so, stop with the broken shit, and how u dont use glitvhs. u used the biggest glitch in mkd, and still ran, and u wont play anyone now.
GET 360, so i can posted u dodgeing and running.
the more and more i thing u actaully put ur self on shadow, so people dont no u are on, this way u can opti and no one sees u.
u wanna see a nice glitch, brc vs ur cast. :) u have way to much faith in midway to fix stuff.
Look at the dates when I posted Red, can you not read?My modem died a week ago just about and it took UPS 5 business days to deliver the right one.That's not my fault.I was on last night the first night since last week but you can believe what ever you wish ask me if I care.I posted yesterday for the first time since then.
Dude, you have to be one of the hugest hypocrites ever.First you rant on the first few months saying how "broken and bad" MKA will be despite who likes the game overall and who doesn't now when I point out the lame air freezes you're practically trying to justify it with "lag" as usual and yet you abuse these things for your advantage....now you're trying to say why this is ok and that's ok etc.So, which is it?Broken horrible game or not that bad when you win using those tactics?I'm not talking about anyones throw Red, I'm referring to something entirely different.Like this one time I jumped back and somehow my opponent was able to somehow freeze me in mid air hitting me with the same move over and over and over.Lag MIGHT have been apart of it but I also know either way it's a flaw in the game online at least that people are abusing.Like malone's old thread on MKAC that time, the game was pretty good enough gameplay wise until that was discovered now it's like MVC2 with air infinites, keeping foes in the air and such.Lame..
Ohh don't worry, when I get a 360 I personally challenge everyone on MKAC in UMK3 and the raping begins.Again, if you think I'm shitting you ask gerchap, stretch, wu and pig.Only reason I can't do it now is because I don't have a 360 now obviously..I'd love to see all those haters over at MKAC attempt to be as "great" as they are in MKA in UMK3...ha, ha not happening because there's nothing insane to abuse to break the game unlike MKA.I'll make that challenge on here public don't worry.I wish the damn thing was cheaper though but that's another issue.Kind of tough to dish out 400 bucks when you're saving for school, bills and such with my job anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every MK game as I've said many times but to deny the fact that in the newer MK's there's nothing big to abuse is like saying the Yankees aren't the best baseball team ever.Which is total BS and not true.
I appear in the top 50 because the month isn't over Red.My record should be 130 wins correct?I went on last night no matches when I went on.Duhhh lol, it ends today meaning either today or tomorrow it'll wipe out everyones monthly records again.Remember, it cleans the slate monthly unlike MKD did which is why you see different rank whores in the top 10 every month.Everyone on my list was either not on or in matches so I went to halo to play with friends.Not to mention due to the new modem I was having connection problems since you have to reset the modem and change a few things.I did that with xbox customer help last night because I had no choice before I went online.You're the techno genius, you should know what I'm talking about.
BTW, speaking of leader boards funny you're mentioning my name because I saw your name as 20 something in top 50....hmmm again, hypocrite much?
Next time I'll take a picture of it.I'm so sure all of those wins came off elite players, every single one of them....


About Me
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please explain urself better, cause u sound retarded when u speak.
what air freezes are u talking about.
u hav noobs, which can only be done after 33, and scorps which freezes u for a 2nd to only give a free hellfire, i think only one more character has a freeze like noob.. so what are u babbling about.
ps, 2 pages worth of writing about nothing, and not one mention os my challage. afraid of brc still?
what air freezes are u talking about.
u hav noobs, which can only be done after 33, and scorps which freezes u for a 2nd to only give a free hellfire, i think only one more character has a freeze like noob.. so what are u babbling about.
ps, 2 pages worth of writing about nothing, and not one mention os my challage. afraid of brc still?

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MKF--great games last night man....nasty fujin..that last gfame tho i cought on to your tricks with him
nice ass ermac kabal and smoke too good games man
nice ass ermac kabal and smoke too good games man
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wugeneral Wrote:
MKF--great games last night man....nasty fujin..that last gfame tho i cought on to your tricks with him
nice ass ermac kabal and smoke too good games man
MKF--great games last night man....nasty fujin..that last gfame tho i cought on to your tricks with him
nice ass ermac kabal and smoke too good games man
Ohh that was you huh wu? I wasn't sure if that was you, mesofly or malone lol.But yeah bud I knew it was someone on here that knew me but had trouble hearing.And from the good record I knew it would be fun, tough matches.
Yeah dude, at first I was like WOW this guy is just like malone.Similar tactics with mileena, frost and kira and just as nasty but a little different.I bet when you guys play those matches are intense.
Thanks for the props man, same here your girls are awesome the way you use them.God I hate Frost lol.Your pokes with mileena and 50/50's are very good indeed and unpredictable.
Also, GG's to smoke LK.Nice Noob, Scorpion and Rain.I see you were trying to do that air freeze with kicks repeatedly with Scorpion but didn't care really that much at that point.Still, fun games none the less.
To Red, how do I sound retarded when people wonder if you ever passed english in school after every post you make? Please don't presume to call me retarded when you can't even type a sentence correctly first off.
Second, when did you challenge me exactly?Remember, I don't go to MKAC anymore because I left and now I'm banned apparently.So don't expect any responces from me on there.But I'm not surprised you're attempting to master Bo with all his flaws...it's what you do best afterall.For the record so far everyone who's tried that MKD nonsense has failed against me with Bo.And no I don't even use Dairou to counter that crap.
Now to answer your questions there's two that have been done to me concerning that air freeze, one with Sareena way back and there's one with scorpion who someone did to me recently but I won the match anyway but I must admit that was annoying and I could not get out of it.I already used my breakers at that point before you tell me I could break out of it using my breakers.


About Me
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one, my challange was bo vs ur cast, ur clueless if u dont think mkd bo is in the game.
scorp does not have a freeze, his only freeze is after 33, and it last a 2nd, it does not freeze u a full rd. so u dont make sense.
scorp does not have a freeze, his only freeze is after 33, and it last a 2nd, it does not freeze u a full rd. so u dont make sense.
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redsaleen02 Wrote:
one, my challange was bo vs ur cast, ur clueless if u dont think mkd bo is in the game.
scorp does not have a freeze, his only freeze is after 33, and it last a 2nd, it does not freeze u a full rd. so u dont make sense.
one, my challange was bo vs ur cast, ur clueless if u dont think mkd bo is in the game.
scorp does not have a freeze, his only freeze is after 33, and it last a 2nd, it does not freeze u a full rd. so u dont make sense.
Bo vs. my whole cast? lol someones looking for revenge....
Actually, I do make sense as it happened the other night recently.Smokelk was doing it to me the other night.I swear to god with scorpion, I was in the corner he was jumping and freezing me in mid air kicking me repeatedly at least 5 times or so before we both hit the ground.I didn't imagine it nor am I making this up out of thin air.
I won regardless but it did happen.I don't know if he was experimenting or said fuck it I'm going for the air infinite as long as I can.It doesn't matter to me which or why he did it but fact of the matter is he DID do it to me a little bit.I never said it froze me a "full round" for the record, just said it was done to me recently or attempted to be done as long as possible.Another thing I noticed was that he was doing it during the climax of our series meaning he was probably getting upset or something.My guess....he didn't do it at first.
I know MKD bo is in MKA to a point but not NEARLY to the extent of MKD bo.At least in this game with the parry, that helps out a lot I must say.There's your difference from MKD and MKA, that parry makes a big difference.


About Me
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the parry is cant stop bo, he has free damage like in mkd.
what smokelk did was not a glitch, u can do that off line.
what smokelk did was not a glitch, u can do that off line.
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Must be something atari was trying to master then among cyraxfan aka ghost ops because they both tried it and failed when I played them.
They attempted the double hit, free throw or this other bo move that you couldn't block but I was able to parry it against the both of them.Atari's was better though out of the two if I had to pick.
They attempted the double hit, free throw or this other bo move that you couldn't block but I was able to parry it against the both of them.Atari's was better though out of the two if I had to pick.


About Me
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its not parryable what im talking about, so they werent doing it. all u can do is break it, and its 50% each time. it u dont parry the first hit, u cant parry it mid.
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That's what I'm talking about, parry the first hit and don't let bo hit you with F+3 which leads to things.
Anyway, GG's to mesofly late last night.Nice Baraka, fun player keep working on your guys dude interesting roster man.
Anyway, GG's to mesofly late last night.Nice Baraka, fun player keep working on your guys dude interesting roster man.


About Me
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u just proved u dont no what im talking about, first f3 doesnt exist, its just 3.. and thats not where his free damage comes from.
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MKLegend - what are you atlking about? You only played my Bo one match. And I was not very good with him at the time. I didnt even know HALF of what he can do...not even the new chains that are LISTED for weapon stance. Let alone try to land free damage.
You won 10-2. I think I did much better than what the score would indicate. Most of the matches came down to round 3. And I used a different character each match.
They were good games. Little laggy but whatever. (I didnt land ANY air combos vs. you). Its all good. I have more than one strategy now.
I got a late start and my learning curve is over. I will probably take the next series we play. Doesnt matter what kind of random connection we have.
One.
You won 10-2. I think I did much better than what the score would indicate. Most of the matches came down to round 3. And I used a different character each match.
They were good games. Little laggy but whatever. (I didnt land ANY air combos vs. you). Its all good. I have more than one strategy now.
I got a late start and my learning curve is over. I will probably take the next series we play. Doesnt matter what kind of random connection we have.
One.
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They were good matches Atari, I admit.A lot of them were close, GG's.
Nice Sindel.
Red, must be something newer because nobody has attempted to do what you're talking about...lovely.
It's fine though, I usually handle bo's in MKA well most of the time.
Your Bo wasn't bad atari, lag happens all over this game sadly but I try to deal with it.I just hate it when my hits don't connect with my opponents.
This ever happen to anyone?
Nice Sindel.
Red, must be something newer because nobody has attempted to do what you're talking about...lovely.
It's fine though, I usually handle bo's in MKA well most of the time.
Your Bo wasn't bad atari, lag happens all over this game sadly but I try to deal with it.I just hate it when my hits don't connect with my opponents.
This ever happen to anyone?


About Me
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there are a couple of guys using it, i think atari is now, and a guy named west coast inc, he starting using it after i did it to him, he was a kabal player, but the last to times i played him was all bo vs bo. the good ole mkd time, bo vs bo, beating down all bos.
and there there are plenty of ps2 guys using it.
all u do is 24 cs 22111 ft 50% 45% off a puke.
or you can do his newer version which could lead to 80%, i havent tried it yet with bo.
and there there are plenty of ps2 guys using it.
all u do is 24 cs 22111 ft 50% 45% off a puke.
or you can do his newer version which could lead to 80%, i havent tried it yet with bo.
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Then I guess I'm not too bad then against it since I played west coast inco last night for some matches, score was 4-1 me leading.Then I left because bobby was inviting me and I wanted matches with him.I was still able to parry him here and there for the record, not all the time it seemed but sometimes.
The only match he beat me was when I was Fujin and it was barely with his bo.Some nasty stuff but still not nearly as bad as the shit in MKD IMO.
GG's to bobby, I lost track of scores man lol with all the diss but they were close I remember 5-3 you one time, 7-4 you another I can't remember the others but there were a few disc lol.
Yeah, Sareena is definitely the best in the game as far as regulars if you're far from here there's nothing you can do.Awesome Sareena though, nice scorpion and tough noob.
I did get your sareena a few times though with Ermac, Mavado.Reason why you got everyone of my lineup except for Fujin was because he's a mid and is in no way competing with top tiers online so I said let me stick with others like.
But GG's.Lot of close matches.
The only match he beat me was when I was Fujin and it was barely with his bo.Some nasty stuff but still not nearly as bad as the shit in MKD IMO.
GG's to bobby, I lost track of scores man lol with all the diss but they were close I remember 5-3 you one time, 7-4 you another I can't remember the others but there were a few disc lol.
Yeah, Sareena is definitely the best in the game as far as regulars if you're far from here there's nothing you can do.Awesome Sareena though, nice scorpion and tough noob.
I did get your sareena a few times though with Ermac, Mavado.Reason why you got everyone of my lineup except for Fujin was because he's a mid and is in no way competing with top tiers online so I said let me stick with others like.
But GG's.Lot of close matches.


About Me
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maybe 13-6 rings a bell.
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I read that but he also said that's what he thinks it was, I could tell he lost track and so did I either way they were close, good matches regardless.I was losing count of the discos.
And for the record, I used all mids except for Dairou against Scorpion, Noob and Sareena but Sareena is like near to impossible when played at high level.Her knives are insane she kind of reminds me of Sagat in SF II tiger, tiger, tiger =can't get near.
But bobby is good with those 3 characters though scorp, noob and sareena.
And for the record, I used all mids except for Dairou against Scorpion, Noob and Sareena but Sareena is like near to impossible when played at high level.Her knives are insane she kind of reminds me of Sagat in SF II tiger, tiger, tiger =can't get near.
But bobby is good with those 3 characters though scorp, noob and sareena.


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haha... im pretty sure that was the score but no im not positive. Great matches though... I forgot about your jump style that totally caught me off gaurd in a few games. Definitly something I had to adapt too. We had quite a few matches that were close. Im sure you read whatever else I had to say over at the other site.. We can play again soon if you want.
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BTW, yeah I owe it to ya congrats on beating me in a series.Hats off to ya man.
Your Sareena and Scorpion are definitely the best online.
Sure we'll defintely do it again sometime man.
Your Sareena and Scorpion are definitely the best online.
LOL, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Banter in the GGS thread . . . I miss it. :) What's up fellas.
Haven't had time to play much (borrowing a copy from a pal), but GGS to UWillPerish. We only played to 2-0 him, and I think I got a round in there somewhere, LOL. Nice KAK, man - RWAARR!!. Fierce.
BAD GAMES, however (which I'll put here, since that thread seems to be long-abandoned), go to Chunky0s - for crying about a deathtrap (BOY can this kid whine) and Sylvoniaslick - both quitters.
Hope to see some of you on in the near future - I should have the disc for a little while. Peace.
Haven't had time to play much (borrowing a copy from a pal), but GGS to UWillPerish. We only played to 2-0 him, and I think I got a round in there somewhere, LOL. Nice KAK, man - RWAARR!!. Fierce.
BAD GAMES, however (which I'll put here, since that thread seems to be long-abandoned), go to Chunky0s - for crying about a deathtrap (BOY can this kid whine) and Sylvoniaslick - both quitters.
Hope to see some of you on in the near future - I should have the disc for a little while. Peace.
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Hey bach what's up dude?Once of the few nice guys back on here unlike the "posers" some of which are mods now elsewhere....
Anyway, what's up bud?You're on MKA?I haven't seen you or played with you in MK in ages man.How's life?Good I hope.
GG's last night to alex, man I always start out good against him but then he pulls away by a few games overall later on in the series.He's beaten me the last two times I played him, I beat him the very first time we played MKA though but man he's come a long way.Definitely a tough player to beat for sure.
Thanks for the props alex, I read your comments on MKAC.You have the best hotaru easily hands down online, nice roster I'm trying to expand mine but I've noticed usually 2 or 3 characters in my lineup always seem to give someone a hard time lately it's been Ermac, Fujin and Kabal for most.Yeah, I love using Ermac and Fujin and being the best with them online is my mission.GG's though alex, always a pleasure.
P.S. to pig your Ermac is nowhere near mine
One thing I know for sure.
Just in case pig's reading this.
Anyway, what's up bud?You're on MKA?I haven't seen you or played with you in MK in ages man.How's life?Good I hope.
GG's last night to alex, man I always start out good against him but then he pulls away by a few games overall later on in the series.He's beaten me the last two times I played him, I beat him the very first time we played MKA though but man he's come a long way.Definitely a tough player to beat for sure.
Thanks for the props alex, I read your comments on MKAC.You have the best hotaru easily hands down online, nice roster I'm trying to expand mine but I've noticed usually 2 or 3 characters in my lineup always seem to give someone a hard time lately it's been Ermac, Fujin and Kabal for most.Yeah, I love using Ermac and Fujin and being the best with them online is my mission.GG's though alex, always a pleasure.
P.S. to pig your Ermac is nowhere near mine
Just in case pig's reading this.


About Me
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see u make a post like that, but than would u back it in ermac vs ermac mirrors????? no u wouldnt u also post where u no pig cant reply. but than i can post what he would like to say.


About Me
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Ok MKF i'd like to ask you some questions:
1. Could you post the scores for the last 3-4 times we have played? MK:A bcause I can
2. Could you post scores on our mirror match with ermac? because I can
3. Could you name any (4 at least) respectable players that respect you? because I can't
4. Could you stop being such a whiny bitch, on sites you know I don't visit, ..talking shit about me when the answers to questions 1 and 2 completly prohibit you from saying such trash?
5. Could you add me on your friends list on your MKF tag that you took me off of so you have no chance of hiding?
6. If you do not support this site then none of us want you here so stop reading other people's business. I thought you didnt' want to be here? Do you really miss all of us that bad?
Ok: Now the most important part of all this mkf. If you respond with another god damn 15-19 page paper like you do with everyone else who calls your bullshit, when all of these should/could be answered with 3-5 word sentenaces, I will not read it. This is a "short answer" test for you. I expect your work to be turned in by the end of class.
Side note: I know you're going to love saying how much you whipped me in mk deception. You did. However, You know what? I whipped the shit out of doohoo in that game for a good year or two and you know what he does to me now? Kicks my ass in mk: a. I would never say I'm better than him because I live in the present.
Deal with that when answering these questions. I can't WAIT to read the responses when both of us know all the real answers to these questions.
from pig
1. Could you post the scores for the last 3-4 times we have played? MK:A bcause I can
2. Could you post scores on our mirror match with ermac? because I can
3. Could you name any (4 at least) respectable players that respect you? because I can't
4. Could you stop being such a whiny bitch, on sites you know I don't visit, ..talking shit about me when the answers to questions 1 and 2 completly prohibit you from saying such trash?
5. Could you add me on your friends list on your MKF tag that you took me off of so you have no chance of hiding?
6. If you do not support this site then none of us want you here so stop reading other people's business. I thought you didnt' want to be here? Do you really miss all of us that bad?
Ok: Now the most important part of all this mkf. If you respond with another god damn 15-19 page paper like you do with everyone else who calls your bullshit, when all of these should/could be answered with 3-5 word sentenaces, I will not read it. This is a "short answer" test for you. I expect your work to be turned in by the end of class.
Side note: I know you're going to love saying how much you whipped me in mk deception. You did. However, You know what? I whipped the shit out of doohoo in that game for a good year or two and you know what he does to me now? Kicks my ass in mk: a. I would never say I'm better than him because I live in the present.
Deal with that when answering these questions. I can't WAIT to read the responses when both of us know all the real answers to these questions.
from pig
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redsaleen02 Wrote:
see u make a post like that, but than would u back it in ermac vs ermac mirrors????? no u wouldnt u also post where u no pig cant reply. but than i can post what he would like to say.
see u make a post like that, but than would u back it in ermac vs ermac mirrors????? no u wouldnt u also post where u no pig cant reply. but than i can post what he would like to say.
Ummm, that last part is a bit hypocritical don't you think?Again, let me remind you after I left MKAC I was banned since I pissed off that loser JTF so you do realize people can say shit about me and I CAN'T post responces right?...right
And actually red before the character tier list was shut down I challenged pighut for Ermac, he never accepted he said ohh in the future can everyone send me pms or post more on here which I did he never posted a responce so I took the Ermac spot but now it's closed to no matter but everyone has told me my ermac is a pain with pig it's Cyrax.
Yeah, I know you're west coast btw red I'm not a fool...I beat you 4-1 and 9-8 so far in MKA and if you played me on any other account I know you didn't beat me because only players who've beaten me in a series in MKA are alex, jaded, groy, pig and dirtylova on his other account and malone so nice try of trying to make me wonder but those are the only names who've beaten me in series in MKA so far.Funny how when ever west coast was on, you're not on and funny how west coast stays there for a while hosting and so have you on your other accounts ehh in the past?Hmmm...his bo was getting beat either way so....
Second, only whiney bitch here is you that blames EVERY match you lose on lag and nothing but then will make long ass posts about why MK is flawed yet STILL plays the game and doesn't attempt to do a damn thing about it.If you seriously CARED that much red you would go to midway yourself and show them which you won't do...
Talk about respect, on MKO you have none except for the few ass kissers you have.
You and anyone else who's a master at finding glitches in the recent MK's.
I mean since you know everything....
I don't give a shit who "respects" me online the smart players respect me as I do them they know who they are.Malone for one has posted the drill several times yet all the MKF haters are too dumb and blind to read his meaningful words.
I've also said this several times also.
Only thing you and I will ever have in common is that we both like MK but I do more....in your MK video you were scared to even show yourself other then your high pitched voice..I expected more out of someone like you personally.
Only reason I didn't enter was because my friend who was editing my vid didn't receive it in time thanks to my dumb local post office fucking up the overnight delivery....but I had myself doing several MK impressions, my tat, my MK custom hat, all vids, movies, cds', games and my cyrax vid playing MK3 all the way through.Then there's my artwork.
Let's face it only thing you're good for is starting arguments since you've literally fought with just about everyone on here or MKAC at one point or another except doohoo or groy ha, ha shocker.... and you lead the word in bitching about lag, and finding glitches and abusing them, who the hell has internet speed as his siggy? LMAO....I think you have some kind of fetish with lag seriously..
Now your guide on teaching people basics with a flaw is all well and good but can you actually write up a guide for an actual character?I'm going to and have one done already which I'll put on here.You know just an overall character guide without talking about just AC, freezes online and such.
Again, I really don't care though what some people think elsewhere on a shitpot for a site.We'll see what those players that hate me do once UMK3 hits my way....then everyone will see the difference between a good game and a broken game.I still love them but YOU of all people know this to be true, even you can't deny that.
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