no problem man, when i come up to nj, we can do this for real, where B+2 is never safe and we can actually see what each others doing, besides our ice clones
ill hopefully read this all tommorow, cant wait
peace

The matchups descriptions are too subjective.
Ashrah,Hotaru,Havik,Raiden,Jade and maybe Baraka are at advantage vs Sub and Ermac vs Sub is even. But very nice guide.

Thanks MRS. Can't wait to play you, and I know 1,1,3 and 1,1,3,2 are free throws my dude. I posted that.
Uhh..thanks as well Galatic, but your opinion on the matter doesn't mean much to me. Frankly, I doubt there's anyone over in europe who plays Sub-Zero at the level that I do so of course it seems they have an advantage over him. When I said who has an advantage I meant when both players are fighting at the highest level.
Here's an example. Myself and Dan are the two best with our respective characters(sindel and sub-zero). We're also extremely good players overall. When we play we go about even, but I normally edge him out in the series. Sub-Zero is not a better chacter than Sindel, but head to head at the highest level with good players using both Sub-Zero wins that. Same goes for Hotaru,Jade,Ashrah and the rest you mentioned.
The one thing I will agree with that you said is that Ermac vs Sub is VERY even. I simply gave Sub-Zero the edge because I beat a Quik and other top Ermacs with Sub a little bit more than they beat me.
Hope I helped you understand. Thanks for the love.

Maybe you need to play some people who actually mastered these characters at the highest level of play like you with Sub. Of course Sub is able to win a series against them, but the matchups still favors them.

Galactic

Dude, are you telling me that Dan hasn't mastered Sindel and Mil? That QUik hasn't mastered Ermac? That BMB isnt ownage with Jade? To say those and every other person on those list aren't masters of their craft is pretty insulting. Play them before you say that bro.
Anyway, thanks for ur input.

Vers man, we have a couple of amazing subs on the PAL server. I know all you Americans think NTSC is much better than PAL but honestly we will never know. Anyways, Frostie has an awesome sub and deadhead and my bro are pretty sharp too.
Great guide by the way, you covered everything! Props man.

You know I'm not doubting that there aren't some good Subs on there man. I just wouldn't know because I can't play them.
Thanks for the props

updates...
- Sindel's Kwan Do U+3 is a high hit. My bad about that.
- Kabal's 1,1,u+3 in sunbin is a high hit
- Kori: d+3 works well vs Kali Sticks. Good spacer and has near equaly priority with his d+3.
If ya got any questions..just ask.

I personally think that all the good mk players are long gone because the cheap players have taken over. Whats a master anyway? someone who takes Shujinko and pulles on you a 85 or plus damage from the start or a noob smoke infiniter, it just dosent sound like one to me. Its just someone whos desperate to win, thats it. Thanks for your cooperation.

You can think whatever you want man, im sure no one cares. If you think all the good players left, get online and see if you cant get a win.

Awesome guide, read 90% of it.
My only gripe is that I'm not mentioned in the Ashrah list, but oh well.

Sorry Kelly. It's weird...you're so good with every characters that I believe people take you for granted. Your ash is awesome as well as your Tanya, Mileena,Sub-Zero,etc,etc. C'mon..you're Konqrr..it goes without saying.

i'm so glad everyone forgot about me , and what about my guide i posted 7 months ago that basicly covers the same straits?
this isnt even the right forum for this

Chimage man, if this was posted in the Deception forum people would be saying, wtf is this? SubZero is a high tier! Ahaha.

This is the perfect forum for this Chimage, and thanks for the props Chris. We need to play some more.

Trust me, Ermac has been mastered. I won a series to 10 versus one of the best Bo' Rai Cho's using only Ermac. Last time I played M2Dave, my Ermac gave him plenty of trouble. I don't think there is a single person who can say that my Ermac doesn't give them trouble. Except maybe Gothic because apparently my Ermac isn't that great. You know, I beat him 10-0 using only Ermac, but he's not that great. What can I say?

Chimage, no one forgot about you. You're Sub is amazing and without playing you and having that experience I would of never have become the best Sub and an elite in general. Stop being so bitter and maybe people will give your props and like you as a person.
Yeah, Quik goes even with everyone, but he sucks..lol. Yeah right.
Speaking of Quik, Allen has been using a style of Tanya that is almost as effective her weapon style and that's the use of her throw and second stance 3,2. After a back dassh this move is very safe with the exception of moves that cover long distances. Sub-Zero's answer to this is Dragon: 1,1,2. Anything Tanya does this move and tries to back dash out of it this will catch her everytime. On hit switch to Kori and do 1,b+1 to plant and go for 50/50. Weapon style is still better, but when blended with Quik's second stance style it makes Tanya a bit tougher to handle.

I don't think that the weapon is more effective. 3, 2 is safer, plus if it connects you get a free throw! 1, 1 in weapon doesn't give you that and it's not as safe.

Dan and Jade-Own both use weapon so I guess they make it look better than it really is. Second Stance IS dope though.

Got to read some more more o this good shit!
As far as your Sub Vs Kobra goes, you mentioned you didn't know anything about kickboxing... Well kickboxing aint really worth a whole lot except for b4... b3,3... and post throw annoyances! lol i'll show you what i mean here:
Konqrr (ashrah) Vs. Me (kobra)
Round 2 shows good use of kickboxing. hehehe
Not sure if this'll help at all, but i just wanted to try n help fill in some holes...
peace

you suck with mac, we all know mines better. =P

Just given this a bump since it looks nice next to Tgrant's guide..lol.
I don't play anymore, but if anyone has any questions just let me know.