]0MBAT Wrote: Affirmative action? I say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Yeah, the government sanctioned wrong-doings committed over 100 years ago (slavery, loss of voting privileges, etc.) aren't the same as the government sanction wrong-doings committed today (hiring someone just because they're not a white male). The effects of affirmative action are many. Let's say you call tech support, go shopping at the mall, whatever. You get someone who's really not qualified for that particular job but they got it anyway due to affirmative action. It's an insult to the public, because the public is probably who will suffer the most (not to mention the company who was basically forced to hire that individual). Even more alarming is that it can cause or encourage more racism against minorities - exactly what it was supposed to fight against! Overall, pretty useless system that should be abolished. We should not look at race when making hiring decisions, and it flies in the face of equality to do so.

Well, I was really referring more to college more than jobs, but thank you for your input anyway.

]0MBAT Wrote: Affirmative action? I say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Even more alarming is that it can cause or encourage more racism against minorities - exactly what it was supposed to fight against! Overall, pretty useless system that should be abolished. We should not look at race when making hiring decisions, and it flies in the face of equality to do so.

We shouldn't look at race when hiring people is concerned, however since the 1950 up to today it's still being done.

If it is useless and should never have been initiated then all the African american and Hispanic students that have been accepted to public and private institutions over the decades, (some private institutions of which were created in opposition to the Brown vs. Board of Education desicion) should never have been accepted in a time where thay wouldn't have been otherwise.

It is flawed, I agree, but with the inequalites that still exist in our country, there is still a need for the playing fiend to be leveled for those who are not as fourtunate. If it wasn't in place, then those who wouldn't be accepted would be even further behind those in hiher socioeconomic standings.

What some need to understand is that as much as it would be ideal for everyone to be on an equal footing, it really isn't that way when you go into urban neighborhoods where schools have poor test scores, teachers, parents, studends and school officials aren't held accountable(Washington D.C. school system for example), overcrowded classes, and good kids are labeled in unspoken sterotypical terms by the system in general.

I've been in two school systems that do this on a constant basis and a good deal of the students have to work twice as hard as those in the suburbs. A lot of good students are being judged by both socioeconomic status and race.

The issue of race still exists even with the decades of progress that have been made. With that, now is the issue of people living on the lowere end of the economic bracket.

While it is not perfect, the question of what would level the playing field to help some of these people has to be asked. If it were to be abolished, then where would students go? The Bush administration has lowered the amounts of Pell Grants that help a lot of students that go to Community Colleges, and I'm feeling the hit myself. Even that alone wouldn't help minorities alone.

So a voild would be left and minority students would have an even higher hill to climb to obtain the equality that they seek if Affirmative Action were to be discontinued. Where would they be then? What kind of jobs would be availiable to them if some form of leveling stick were to be taken away from them?

Modifying Affirmative Action should be a priority to make it a leveling stick for those who aren't as fourtunate, but doing away with it all together will not make the situation any better. I'd hate to think what sort of void would be created if it was gone.


GD

]0MBAT Wrote: Even more alarming is that it can cause or encourage more racism against minorities - exactly what it was supposed to fight against! Overall, pretty useless system that should be abolished. We should not look at race when making hiring decisions, and it flies in the face of equality to do so.

Oh and I forgot.

There's no migic bullet solution in which it can be aimed at the center issue of inequality, fired at and then BANG everything solved.

The school system needs to be improved where qualified teachers have the managable class sizes where students can have an optimal environment to learn. That doen't involve throwing more money at the problem whereas they are made accountable for their failings. The emphasis on improving standardized test scores should be a major priority as well, since colleges look heavily upon them. Especially, the major and private ones.

A wider viriety of jobs that offer decent pay will help a lot and I don't mean jobs at Wal-Mart. Here's a true fact. The reason why Wal-Mart hires people on a part time status is so that they don't have to offer their part time employees benefits even though people ask for full time positions. Wal-Mart can say that they hire people at greater numbers every quarter, but with workers working part time hours for the most part, benefits are not given sometimes. And with the current job market as it is today, people couldn't find better jobs with higher benefits if they wanted to.

The issues is that there still exists unspoken stereotypes that employers laben oupon minorities. So we really cannot take them at their word 100% of the time when we all know that if they could find subtle ways to skirt the laws, they would. They've done so in the past and they still are doing it today. The EEOC(Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) researches cases of equal treatment of employess and every year they bring cases against coroprations for their practices and most of the time the offences are against women and minorities.


GD

Scarecrow Wrote: And the beautiful thing about government grants as opposed to student loans is you don't have to pay them back. It's free money set aside for people going to college, starting their own businesses, etc.

Pell Grants is one that the Govt. gives to some students. Helped me out a lot the last 2.5 years!


GD

I see your point, however for all the years after slavery colored people still have less advantages, what's more, the war is now moving toward poor people. It's too bad No One running for president wants to talk about the poor people. Bush caters to the rich. Kerry to the middle class. No one to the poor.

]0MBAT Wrote: Affirmative action? I say, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Yeah, the government sanctioned wrong-doings committed over 100 years ago (slavery, loss of voting privileges, etc.) aren't the same as the government sanction wrong-doings committed today (hiring someone just because they're not a white male). The effects of affirmative action are many. Let's say you call tech support, go shopping at the mall, whatever. You get someone who's really not qualified for that particular job but they got it anyway due to affirmative action. It's an insult to the public, because the public is probably who will suffer the most (not to mention the company who was basically forced to hire that individual). Even more alarming is that it can cause or encourage more racism against minorities - exactly what it was supposed to fight against! Overall, pretty useless system that should be abolished. We should not look at race when making hiring decisions, and it flies in the face of equality to do so.

I just say bring back Bill and all will be cleansed.

DanteThePoetic Wrote: I just say bring back Bill and all will be cleansed.

YES!

History Lesson: Italian ancestors, ok ok, these people came to America and were killed, held captive and the whole nine, not to mention even further back begin held captive by african armies (Hannibal). So we come to America and we are the minority, everyone hates us? What did we do, we took shit over, they killed us we killed more of them, we opened up businesses, we became the police, we became the bankers, we made ourselves equal in the face of adversity. We forced them to treat us equal. 100 of years later, Italian people are no longer the minority. You never see a mafucka on the news bitchin about how we was slaves back in the day, cuz why the fuck would we, we triumphed. So I say to the few minoritys who are bitchin, Handle yo mutha fuckin business. The real negro and latinos are handleing theirs, they aint on tv bitchin bout shit, they are seizing the day.
Oh and I'm born and raised, and still reside, in the worst place in America; Trenton, New Jersey, check da record. Talkin some "ghetto" shit, I'm in the worst place in America, I aint bitchin to nobody, das my problem, if you gonna blame anybody for living hard knock, you blame ya fuckin parents.