Rejecting ambulance assistance... A bit unfair...?
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Rejecting ambulance assistance... A bit unfair...?
As most of you know, and for those who don't, I am diagnosed with a medical condition called "Syncope." Its a condition that causes me to pass out/faint due to various triggers such as dehydration, claustrophobia, prolong standing, drop of the blood pressure... yadda yadda yadda.
Anyways, this kind of condition is apparently rare in the eyes of people who I am around and they freak out. They often don't know what to do or they immediately call the 911.
Today at work, I passed out right after I finished my lunch. This is the second day in a row that I passed out. There's been a change in the weather over by me, mother nature was due (since I took the different birth control pills to have it for this week) and the barometric meter has been jumping around as well.
Since this is the second time I passed out, which yesterday was the first in six months that I've passed out, they called the ambulance. I refused to go to the hospital, I am old enough to do so since you have to be 18+ to refuse for a ride to the hospital.
Apparently, they tricked me in doing so. They said, "Can we at least check you out in the ambulance? Just to make sure your vitals are okay and everything like that?" I said "Yes. But ONLY that and no trip to the hospital." I end up going to the hospital since they wired me down and took my vitals.
Now, as a twenty year old who has the right to refuse to go to the hospital, don't you think this was a bit unfair? Even my boss at work said she was pissed off that they did take me to the hospital becuase I was looking perfectly fine by the time they arrive, as always.
They wanted to put an IV in me and I immediately covered my arms and said no, cried because I have a fear of needles and just shook my head. "Ya know they're going to put an iV in you anyways at the hospital, might as well do it right now." "I said no!"
When I got to the hospital, a doctor came in, heard my mom telling the story about all the tests I've undergone and all the doctors I've seen for this bullshit condition and he said, "Well I feel you and I don't want you to go through another test if the results always come out the same way. But just to rule this one thing out, can you at least take a pregnancy test?" I had to piss like a mother fucker anyways so I accepted and thank the lord I'm not pregnant... Yet.
So, what does this all have to do with the topic? I didn't have to go to the hospital to get me checked out since I felt normal as soon as I woke up from passing out. I told the paramedics that I did not want to go to the hospital but I'll accept getting checked out in the ambulance. I had that happen before down in the city where the paramedics came and they asked me to just get in the ambulance to get checked out and within minutes at was sitting at a Cubs game.
If people refuse to go to the hospital but accept getting checked out, do you think they have the right to lie to you and take you to the hospital after YOU CLEARLY REFUSE to go and they understood you and you wrote your John Hancock on the line saying you don't want to go?
The good side of this story is that at least I got paid for the entire day of my last day of work, but I still think this was unfair after I refused.
Anyways, this kind of condition is apparently rare in the eyes of people who I am around and they freak out. They often don't know what to do or they immediately call the 911.
Today at work, I passed out right after I finished my lunch. This is the second day in a row that I passed out. There's been a change in the weather over by me, mother nature was due (since I took the different birth control pills to have it for this week) and the barometric meter has been jumping around as well.
Since this is the second time I passed out, which yesterday was the first in six months that I've passed out, they called the ambulance. I refused to go to the hospital, I am old enough to do so since you have to be 18+ to refuse for a ride to the hospital.
Apparently, they tricked me in doing so. They said, "Can we at least check you out in the ambulance? Just to make sure your vitals are okay and everything like that?" I said "Yes. But ONLY that and no trip to the hospital." I end up going to the hospital since they wired me down and took my vitals.
Now, as a twenty year old who has the right to refuse to go to the hospital, don't you think this was a bit unfair? Even my boss at work said she was pissed off that they did take me to the hospital becuase I was looking perfectly fine by the time they arrive, as always.
They wanted to put an IV in me and I immediately covered my arms and said no, cried because I have a fear of needles and just shook my head. "Ya know they're going to put an iV in you anyways at the hospital, might as well do it right now." "I said no!"
When I got to the hospital, a doctor came in, heard my mom telling the story about all the tests I've undergone and all the doctors I've seen for this bullshit condition and he said, "Well I feel you and I don't want you to go through another test if the results always come out the same way. But just to rule this one thing out, can you at least take a pregnancy test?" I had to piss like a mother fucker anyways so I accepted and thank the lord I'm not pregnant... Yet.
So, what does this all have to do with the topic? I didn't have to go to the hospital to get me checked out since I felt normal as soon as I woke up from passing out. I told the paramedics that I did not want to go to the hospital but I'll accept getting checked out in the ambulance. I had that happen before down in the city where the paramedics came and they asked me to just get in the ambulance to get checked out and within minutes at was sitting at a Cubs game.
If people refuse to go to the hospital but accept getting checked out, do you think they have the right to lie to you and take you to the hospital after YOU CLEARLY REFUSE to go and they understood you and you wrote your John Hancock on the line saying you don't want to go?
The good side of this story is that at least I got paid for the entire day of my last day of work, but I still think this was unfair after I refused.
About Me
Puto, ergo non est deus
Non opus est, si pretium non habetis.
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Well, this is kind of a gray area in various HIPPA standings based on locality.
Generally speaking though, no. A patient has a right to refuse medical treatment. Up to and including transportation to a hospital. The people who are paramedics are not doctors and cannot speak or act on what is proper for your condition on your behalf.
As long as local statutes don't say otherwise, what they did would actually be illegal and a violation of the letter (if not the spirit) of HIPPA.
Seeing as you have went to a doctor once or twice, I won't need to bore you with the details of it. I'm sure you're heard/glanced at the paperwork a few times in your life.
If you want to make an issue of it, I suppose you could sue. Or make a complaint to the company/hospital they work for and ask for a formal apology. Then the company (whether they're volunteer or trained/paid) will reprimand and send them through training on HIPPA observance.
Let me tell you, that takes a while and isn't the best of fun. lol But they should be at least informed that they are breaking federal regulations. You wouldn't want them to take someone who believes in Christian Science to a hospital, they die anyway, then the family sues the hospital into the ground. Then there _is_ no more hospital there.
Stand your ground, speak up, set shit straight.
Generally speaking though, no. A patient has a right to refuse medical treatment. Up to and including transportation to a hospital. The people who are paramedics are not doctors and cannot speak or act on what is proper for your condition on your behalf.
As long as local statutes don't say otherwise, what they did would actually be illegal and a violation of the letter (if not the spirit) of HIPPA.
Seeing as you have went to a doctor once or twice, I won't need to bore you with the details of it. I'm sure you're heard/glanced at the paperwork a few times in your life.
If you want to make an issue of it, I suppose you could sue. Or make a complaint to the company/hospital they work for and ask for a formal apology. Then the company (whether they're volunteer or trained/paid) will reprimand and send them through training on HIPPA observance.
Let me tell you, that takes a while and isn't the best of fun. lol But they should be at least informed that they are breaking federal regulations. You wouldn't want them to take someone who believes in Christian Science to a hospital, they die anyway, then the family sues the hospital into the ground. Then there _is_ no more hospital there.
Stand your ground, speak up, set shit straight.
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I have no idea how it works with regards to medical emergencies, hospital treatments, or tests for things, especially when it comes to American medical health. With that being said, aside from time, and excluding that you got paid for the work day anyway, did the whole thing cost you anything?
Aside from your pride, if it cost you cash to go through everything, then definitely challenge it. Otherwise, is it worth the hassle?
Aside from your pride, if it cost you cash to go through everything, then definitely challenge it. Otherwise, is it worth the hassle?
I probably wouldn't sue the hospital, as I am cutting some slack since I've never been taken to this kind of hospital in my area. Though, even so, a consent is a consent and I never gave mine.
If the ambulance bill is outrageous and my medical insurance or whatever it is doesn't cover it, which it mostly does, but if it doesn't, I might take a look into doing at least something. But I hardly doubt anything will happen and such.
But it's a thought to throw out there and see if this also happened to people who were in this kind of situation.
But thanks for the feedback, most appreciated!
If the ambulance bill is outrageous and my medical insurance or whatever it is doesn't cover it, which it mostly does, but if it doesn't, I might take a look into doing at least something. But I hardly doubt anything will happen and such.
But it's a thought to throw out there and see if this also happened to people who were in this kind of situation.
But thanks for the feedback, most appreciated!
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While I've never been diagnosed with sycope, I'm sure I have a type of it. I can't lose any blood without feeling light headed and passing out(I'm talking 5 drops and I'm down for the count), and it's routine for me to drop when standing after sitting, kneeling, or laying down. I've only had an ambulance called once because of it though and I did actually have to go since I hit my head on the way down. But I can say I know where you're coming from.
Bottom line, you know your body best. You know what's right and what's not, and if it's common for you then you were completely justified in refusing treatment, you're of age, and sound mind so they really had no grounds to take you in a legal sense at least. The paramedics were just doing their job and maybe they unjustly chalked you up as an uncooperative patient, and I imagine in their line of work it's probably better to be safe than sorry, but they should've listened to what you were saying instead of hijacking you and whisking you to the hospital.
Bottom line, you know your body best. You know what's right and what's not, and if it's common for you then you were completely justified in refusing treatment, you're of age, and sound mind so they really had no grounds to take you in a legal sense at least. The paramedics were just doing their job and maybe they unjustly chalked you up as an uncooperative patient, and I imagine in their line of work it's probably better to be safe than sorry, but they should've listened to what you were saying instead of hijacking you and whisking you to the hospital.
About Me
"Never Stay Down"- Steve Rogers 
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Well you do have to look at it from their perspective. They get called down because someone has passed out and the caller didn't know what happened, I'm assuming I don't know who called. Obviously you are used to your condition and know it's no big deal, but these people aren't familiar with you. I've seen people pass out before, wake up, say they're ok, and then pass out a few seconds later. I'm not saying that happens to you but the paramedics don't know that.
Ultimately I don't think the paramedics had any right to take you to the hospital but I think their hearts were in the right place if that helps at all.
Ultimately I don't think the paramedics had any right to take you to the hospital but I think their hearts were in the right place if that helps at all.
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As the friend of a Paramedic, I can tell you this: the procedure is supposed to be this: Go to the scene, if the patient refuses to go to the hospital check the patient to make sure they are not dieing. If a paramedic or EMT has reason to believe that you are in mortal danger they have the right and are required by law to call the police. The police then "arrest" you and you are taken to the hospital and no charges are filed.
This is the procedure ONLY if you appear to be DIEING. Legally your rights have been violated. though I suppose it could very by state.
This is the procedure ONLY if you appear to be DIEING. Legally your rights have been violated. though I suppose it could very by state.
Granted that they have the right to check me out, they were not the best paramedics I've dealt with during the multiple times I have been rushed to the hospital.
A.) One of the paramedics thought that Smart Water has sugar in it, which it clearly doesn't. I drink that on a daily basis due to the ELECTROLYTES that are in it, as well as being ordered by my dentist to switch to that after hearing I've been drinking nothing but Gatorade...
B.) Apparently my blood sugar was "hi" though I did tell them I JUST had lunch, and the only amount of sugar I had was my can of Sprite. I had my blood sugar checked out at the ER and it was reading fine... even though my finger still really hurts if I apply pressure to it. I can even recall my lunch the other day, it was a ham/cheese/bologna sandwich with mayo, a can of sprite and carrots.
C.) If I have the right to refuse the IV I shouldn't be told countless of times that the doctors there will give me one. If I have the right to refuse, they should just ask me once more if I am sure and let it be. Not shove this "disgruntled" attitude in my face.
I understand that its a procedure that they have to do to everyone they pick up in an ambulance. Though you know, they should obviously understand the right of not consenting. The paramedics were fine with me up until I refused several things and it is frustrating when they get antsy on you when you reject stuff.
I do know my body very well. I went back to my work today just to say good-bye to everyone since today was supposed to be my last day but they said just to rest and such, a lot of people were not too pleased that I went to the hospital. Even the other branch that my mom works at she was getting questions left to right about me and such.
It's a frustrating condition, really it is. I know how to handle this, and this has been the first of six months that its occurring again. But I appreciate all of the feedback guys. Nothing is going to happen, such as suing the hospital or whatever, but we are keeping this on note in case this is to ever happen again. Because I go back to school, the only issue is that they are supposed to call the ambulance... Although I am trying very hard to make sure they don't.
A.) One of the paramedics thought that Smart Water has sugar in it, which it clearly doesn't. I drink that on a daily basis due to the ELECTROLYTES that are in it, as well as being ordered by my dentist to switch to that after hearing I've been drinking nothing but Gatorade...
B.) Apparently my blood sugar was "hi" though I did tell them I JUST had lunch, and the only amount of sugar I had was my can of Sprite. I had my blood sugar checked out at the ER and it was reading fine... even though my finger still really hurts if I apply pressure to it. I can even recall my lunch the other day, it was a ham/cheese/bologna sandwich with mayo, a can of sprite and carrots.
C.) If I have the right to refuse the IV I shouldn't be told countless of times that the doctors there will give me one. If I have the right to refuse, they should just ask me once more if I am sure and let it be. Not shove this "disgruntled" attitude in my face.
I understand that its a procedure that they have to do to everyone they pick up in an ambulance. Though you know, they should obviously understand the right of not consenting. The paramedics were fine with me up until I refused several things and it is frustrating when they get antsy on you when you reject stuff.
I do know my body very well. I went back to my work today just to say good-bye to everyone since today was supposed to be my last day but they said just to rest and such, a lot of people were not too pleased that I went to the hospital. Even the other branch that my mom works at she was getting questions left to right about me and such.
It's a frustrating condition, really it is. I know how to handle this, and this has been the first of six months that its occurring again. But I appreciate all of the feedback guys. Nothing is going to happen, such as suing the hospital or whatever, but we are keeping this on note in case this is to ever happen again. Because I go back to school, the only issue is that they are supposed to call the ambulance... Although I am trying very hard to make sure they don't.
About Me
Dedicated, hopeless...Li Mei fan.
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I'm a nationally registered EMT (have to be to be a combat medic in the Army) it basically it breaks down like this. It is unlawful for EMTs to do anything if you refuse treatment. If you have an altered mental status (unconscious, drunk, high, basically not you) then they can provide treatment by law under the idea that you would have accepted medical treatment had you been alert and oriented.
If you very specifically stated that you did not want to go to the hospital and they treated you anyway then there's a big problem there. You did however give them consent to take vitals which may be the loop hole in the whole equation.
It baffles my mind as to why they couldn't get vitals outside the ambulance. Getting pulse and respiration rates takes only a watch. Blood pressure only a BP cuff (technically). They also could have put a pulse oximeter on you to get not only your pulse but also your oxygen levels.
Either way that was straight up shady shit. There could be legal ramifications if you chose to pursue it.
If you very specifically stated that you did not want to go to the hospital and they treated you anyway then there's a big problem there. You did however give them consent to take vitals which may be the loop hole in the whole equation.
It baffles my mind as to why they couldn't get vitals outside the ambulance. Getting pulse and respiration rates takes only a watch. Blood pressure only a BP cuff (technically). They also could have put a pulse oximeter on you to get not only your pulse but also your oxygen levels.
Either way that was straight up shady shit. There could be legal ramifications if you chose to pursue it.
Well, after discussing about this thread with my mom and some of the responses I've received, I'm surprised that she actually did agree with you guys.
I'm not saying that she wouldn't have understand the issue, I think it's more due to the fact that her brother is currently diagnosed with a cancer that, after he gets his operation done, there's going to be a huge lawsuit against the town that he lives in due to the tainted water I believe. Just a lot of issues have been going on health wise, and it's at the point where's its a pissed off kind of issue.
And with that said, my mom told me that we might not even have to pay for this bill due to me saying and refusing to go to the hospital.
So, it's definitely going to depend on the bill, I'm saying that we should decline paying for it anyways because I am still really ticked about that this happened.
Granted that this was the second day in a row I passed out at work, still, this was like the first/second episode within six months of not passing out. We realized what may have caused this issue to occur, I didn't need to get checked out.
At least the doctor at the hospital actually listened to the two of us and understood that we did not want myself to undergo another test that would have obviously given us an answer we've received every single time.
I'm not saying that she wouldn't have understand the issue, I think it's more due to the fact that her brother is currently diagnosed with a cancer that, after he gets his operation done, there's going to be a huge lawsuit against the town that he lives in due to the tainted water I believe. Just a lot of issues have been going on health wise, and it's at the point where's its a pissed off kind of issue.
And with that said, my mom told me that we might not even have to pay for this bill due to me saying and refusing to go to the hospital.
So, it's definitely going to depend on the bill, I'm saying that we should decline paying for it anyways because I am still really ticked about that this happened.
Granted that this was the second day in a row I passed out at work, still, this was like the first/second episode within six months of not passing out. We realized what may have caused this issue to occur, I didn't need to get checked out.
At least the doctor at the hospital actually listened to the two of us and understood that we did not want myself to undergo another test that would have obviously given us an answer we've received every single time.
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I think it has more to due with the fact that the ambulance service don't get paid unless they transport you to the hospital. That's probably why they coerced you into going.
A a little off topic but kind of relates to your situation. A friend of mine called a tow service for his car because he had two of his tire slashed, and only had 1 spare, before the tow truck got there another friend arrived with the same model car as the one that was going to get towed. When the tow truck got there we asked the tow truck operator if he could could just swap out the tires for us (because we had broken tire jack prior to him showing up), and he said flat out that he doesn't get paid unless he tows the car.
Could be a similar situation with EMT services IMO. They are privately owned an operated, and need to make their money somewhere. Still shady of them to trick you into going, when you clearly didn't want to though.
A a little off topic but kind of relates to your situation. A friend of mine called a tow service for his car because he had two of his tire slashed, and only had 1 spare, before the tow truck got there another friend arrived with the same model car as the one that was going to get towed. When the tow truck got there we asked the tow truck operator if he could could just swap out the tires for us (because we had broken tire jack prior to him showing up), and he said flat out that he doesn't get paid unless he tows the car.
Could be a similar situation with EMT services IMO. They are privately owned an operated, and need to make their money somewhere. Still shady of them to trick you into going, when you clearly didn't want to though.
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