Not sure if he's the greatest of all time, as there are probably masters who we've never heard of that may be better.

Good advertising.

The media.
Thats all.
Sure he was good, but most people don't know a damn thing about him, other than the fact that he was in a movie called "Enter The Dragon". Just like most people don't have a fucking clue who Che Guevara is, but everybody wears shirts with his print on them.
To be honest, i really don't like Bruce Lee too much (yes, i know i didn't actually know him). I think he's an overhyped actor, that happened to be good with cross training martial arts. Thats all. People rant about his "inch punch" is if he invented it, but really, his whole technique is debatable...

The real reason? He had a cool name. If he had been Gunther Neimerhimer, he never would have taken off. That's just my opinion.

He's the greatest movie martial-artist ever, not necessarily the greatest martial-artist ever.

TheDragonKingakaReptile Wrote: Good advertising.

That, and the fact that he never fought me

UNGH!!! Baka!

The reason whay people regard him as great is because he indroduced a new philosophy in to martial arts. His beliefs that a martial artist should adapt his/her style to fit the pratical needs of the world were revolutionary and contraversial.

He didn't believe in the docturines of what martial artists were being taught. He felt that if you wanted to be a pratical martial artist, then you need to through out what was not pratical. Simply put, if you wanna survive on the street, that traditional shit ain't gonna cut it in a real fight!

He studied numerous styles by reading books, to research the pratical applications and incoorperate them into his own "individual" style, which evolved into Jeet Kune Do "Way of the Intercepting Fist". It was his divergent ideas that many still believe today. He never considered it a style, more so a martial philosophy of expanding one's own individuality.

I could go on, but this is enough for 2 in the morning.


GD

Plus it's largely because of his ideal of teaching anyone who wanted to learn that non-Asians are able to study Asian martial arts.

Bruce Lee = one of the greatest men ever to walk the face of earth period. discussion ended....

ghostdragon Wrote: UNGH!!! Baka! The reason whay people regard him as great is because he indroduced a new philosophy in to martial arts. His beliefs that a martial artist should adapt his/her style to fit the pratical needs of the world were revolutionary and contraversial. He didn't believe in the docturines of what martial artists were being taught. He felt that if you wanted to be a pratical martial artist, then you need to through out what was not pratical. Simply put, if you wanna survive on the street, that traditional shit ain't gonna cut it in a real fight! He studied numerous styles by reading books, to research the pratical applications and incoorperate them into his own "individual" style, which evolved into Jeet Kune Do "Way of the Intercepting Fist". It was his divergent ideas that many still believe today. He never considered it a style, more so a martial philosophy of expanding one's own individuality. I could go on, but this is enough for 2 in the morning. GD

well said.

wikedklown00 Wrote: Bruce Lee = one of the greatest men ever to walk the face of earth period. discussion ended....

Nope, looks like it's still going. Oh well.

As for why he's considered better than Jet Li and Jackie Chan, I'd say it's because of his almost insane dedication to his training and the further development of his skills as a practical martial artist. As someone else said, he knew how to use martial arts in a real world fight. In his peak, he may have even been able to beat me.

Now, Jet and Jackie are awesome, but they're more showmen than fighters. Particularly Jackie, whose training included a hell of a lot of gymnastics, dance and acting as well as kung fu. His training didn't include very much "Okay, this is how you hurt people and win fights".

And Jet's primary martial art is wushu, which does allow him to kick some ass, but it's more of an acrobatic art designed more to look good rather than really beat people up.

NitroDeSade Wrote: And Jet's primary martial art is wushu, which does allow him to kick some ass, but it's more of an acrobatic art designed more to look good rather than really beat people up.

Kinda..
Wushu is more of a general term for chinese martial arts, thus it incorporates such branches as tiger and other external non acrobatic styles.
Choy lay fut is pretty good for ass kicking purposes i hear, and styles such as snake are pretty damn deadly. Add all the rest (dim mak techniques and the like) and you've got one potent ass kicking cocktail.
Some styles are excessively pretty though, like you said. An example is of course tai chi. This is supposed to be why wing chun was created, to leave out all the "pretty" stuff, and hurt 'em up real nice and direct.

EDIT: Sorry to ramble, everybody probably already knew most of that.

because you'd have never seen Bruce Lee in crap like Shanghai Knights, Around the World in 80 Days, and The One

because he invented a fighting style. hes not the best. a great fighter that good kick the ass of everyone on the forum but not the greatest martial artist of all time. ancient china probaly had a shitload of quality fighters. thats were most of the styles were created.

He was untouchable.

Movies and media. Bruce Lee was incredibly out of shape, and his philosophy contradicted what he did. I could go on and on, but Bruce Lee is NOT the best martial-artist of all time.

Let's not also forget the fact that he died relativly young (33). Anytime anyone famous dies young they almost instantly become an icon. Throw in the fact that he brought martial arts to the masses, and there's your answer.

ghostdragon Wrote: UNGH!!! Baka! The reason whay people regard him as great is because he indroduced a new philosophy in to martial arts. His beliefs that a martial artist should adapt his/her style to fit the pratical needs of the world were revolutionary and contraversial. He didn't believe in the docturines of what martial artists were being taught. He felt that if you wanted to be a pratical martial artist, then you need to through out what was not pratical. Simply put, if you wanna survive on the street, that traditional shit ain't gonna cut it in a real fight! He studied numerous styles by reading books, to research the pratical applications and incoorperate them into his own "individual" style, which evolved into Jeet Kune Do "Way of the Intercepting Fist". It was his divergent ideas that many still believe today. He never considered it a style, more so a martial philosophy of expanding one's own individuality. I could go on, but this is enough for 2 in the morning. GD

Yeah, what he said

skeletonofsociety Wrote: Let's not also forget the fact that he died relativly young (33). Anytime anyone famous dies young they almost instantly become an icon. Throw in the fact that he brought martial arts to the masses, and there's your answer.

That, and everything Ghostdragon said.

Regarding what Skeletonofsociety said, look at Kurt Cobain; I guarantee you if he were alive today he'd be a has-been. Also, look up some websites for Cliff Burton, the bassist of Metallica who died in a bus crash in '86. There are numerous shrines praising him. Or Randy Rhoads, original guitarist for Ozzy Osbourne's solo career, who died in a plane crash; many people will say he's easily one of the greatest guitarists of all time, when they probably wouldn't if he were alive today. And (going back to Bruce), as SOS said, he popularized martial arts movies, and kung fu especially.

And, as GD said, he developed the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do. This was one of the most important innovations in martial arts in the 20th century.

NitroDeSade also makes a good point about Jackie Chan and Jet Li. Jackie's movies have a MUCH different approach from Bruce Lee's: Jackie has often said he was heavily influenced by slapstick comedian/actor/director Buster Keaton, which makes his movies more like "Bruce Lee meets the Three Stooges" in feel, with plots involving cross-cultural comedy. Bruce Lee had nothing to do with comedy. As for Jet Li, can't say much about him, as I haven't seen any of his movies.

Bruce died at 32, i think.
As for having nothing to do with comedy, Way of the Dragon, the Bruce Lee movie in Rome, where he fights Chuck Norris, had it's comical moments, and that was because of Bruce Lee. Not much, but still something.

And Wanderer, could you please elaborate on your statement of Bruce Lee being out of shape? I'd just like to understand what you meant.

Another thing about Bruce Lee, is the fact that after he's death, tons of obscure chinese men tried to replace him, thus starting the wave of "Bruceploitation". That is maybe why he is still so vividly remembered today, along with the fact that he popularised chinese Martial Arts, and broke the "chinaman" cliché of the 1970s America.
Breaking the board that said "Sick man of Asia" seen in Fist of Fury, and thus sort of setting an example for the chinese, may also be a part of the reasons his legend lives on.

He died so we have respect for his death.

Siduu101 Wrote: He died so we have respect for his death.

Granted, but still, it's been 31 since he died. Respect is one thing, glorification is another.

And I got to agree with XCarnageX on what he said about Kurt and Cliff. Yes they were talanted, yes it's a shame they died young, but to call them "the greatest of all time" is foolish. They hadn't even reached their peaks (well maybe Kurt did) and yet people refuse to move on. Hell, there were better guitarists and bassists around before they even died. It happens all through out pop culture (James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee, Brandon Lee, Aaliyah, etc). It's like being dead puts you at the top of everyones list.

Bruce Lee was definately one of the most, if not the most, influential martial artist in modern times, but I don't know if it can be said that he was the best. How do you classify who was the best martial artist? Do you base it on popularity? Do you base it on form? What about competition? Competition wise, I would have to say that it is a close three-way tie between Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Joe Lewis, and Chuck Norris. Joe Lewis trained with Bruce Lee for an entire year, and he had a lot of respect for him. I was lucky enough to have a group training session with Joe Lewis a few years ago. The guy's gotta be pushin 60 and he's still a fucking monster.

Well I did not mean to say best ever. But best in the 20th century I think he easily is. Just fromwhat he has accomplished and invented by himself so soon in his life. Also, how he whooped everyones ass from Martial-Art tournaments to street fights and challenges, which they showed on the "Curse of the Dragon" biography.