Fatalities and Fatal Blows - Could 2D work?
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posted03/28/2019 12:31 PM (UTC)by
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thisiscourage
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02/20/2011 08:35 PM (UTC)

I think I would prefer Fatalities and Fatal Blows to be shown from the same vantage point as the normal fighting view. Like the old 2D MK games. Imagine some of these fatalities without the special camera angles, close ups, & slow motion. It would look so damn cool.

I am not saying I dislike the presentation, I think it really cool & extremely detailed. NRS is trying to get the Awe factor set to 11 for these fatalities... it is what helps propel the sales of the game. I get it. But it does get stale quickly in my opinion. After seeing it 5 times I am thinking... OK lets hurry up and get it over with to start the rematch.

But I wish you could perform a button entry that kept the fatality view panned out in normal fighting view. Like hold LT or something. I think fatalities would not lose there luster as quickly if the view was set back.

Same goes for Fatal Blows...

Anyone else agree? or Disagree?

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thenomad
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03/28/2019 12:54 PM (UTC)
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I only think the ending animation is overused. The slowmo bloodsplat thing

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EndoScorpion
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03/28/2019 01:13 PM (UTC)
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I kinda agree and disagree.

The problem is that they are just over the top spectacle, to the point that some are even laughable. So once you've seen them a few times they lose that shock value. Similar to jump scares in horror movies, or stand-up jokes. They don't work well when you're expecting them, or know exactly when they will happen / know them word-for-word.

Fatalities rely on the cinematography to help push the flair and awe, and wouldn't work as effectively with flat, uninteresting camera angles. Same with any martial arts movie; the only time you really get a side profile view of both the fighters is for an establishing shot. It's only used in games for gameplay purposes.... which fatalities aren't subject to.

So I'd still use varying and more interesting camera angles - but I think fatalities would have more impact if they got even more up-close-and-personal, and made them more humanly plausible. Try to make the audience "feel" it. But then some audiences might think it was "less fun" and made them feel uneasy - which is probably why they are the way they are.

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thisiscourage
03/28/2019 01:40 PM (UTC)
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Scorpion1813

Fatalities rely on the cinematography to help push the flair and awe, and wouldn't work as effectively with flat, uninteresting camera angles. Same with any martial arts movie; the only time you really get a side profile view of both the fighters is for an establishing shot. It's only used in games for gameplay purposes.... which fatalities aren't subject to.

I always figured the angles in movies are to hide inadequacies in choreography. It isnt a real fight so have a wide pan shot would reveal too many instances of fake punches/kicks. You wouldnt have to worry about that in an MK game. being able to see all of the body movements in a wide pan angle would be really cool to see for me. I think it would add to the brutality by reducing some of the exaggerated or over the top details of the fatalities.

Example: Liu Kang punching perfectly round holes into someones chest looks cool, but also looks kind of silly zoomed in. But panned out.... that shit would look so damn brutal.

Scorpion1813

made them more humanly plausible. Try to make the audience "feel" it.

Yes. 100% yes. I totally agree. The moment before Geras' skin rip fatality on Cassie was some real shit. Her screams and face made me cringe... i felt it in my pits and actually grimaced. And then the over the top skin/bone rip came. Which is brutal but also anatomically impossible haha.

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EndoScorpion
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03/28/2019 01:57 PM (UTC)
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Hollywood does use camera angles and quick cuts (only shows a single shot/angle for a second or two), to hide actors that can't fight properly. However, even Jet Li / Jackie Chan movies -- that are more zoomed out with longer shots in order to show off their skills -- don't use flat, boring camera angles. Or at least try to avoid them.

But yeah, those "perfect circles" in chests, and punching someones face cleanly off is silly. They'd need to have skin and muscles rip and tear much more unevenly. And for the blood to look way less cartoony.

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FistfulOfDatas
03/28/2019 05:18 PM (UTC)
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Fatalities in the old school 2D games had a different feel as they happened much more quickly. It gave it more of an, "oh shit!" factor than when they are so drawn out and dramatic. It was more like, "Bang! You're dead motherfucker!". That's what I really appreciate about the Brutalities which were introduced in X, they feel more like the old school Fatalities in that sense.

The psychology of Fatalities in the games now is to make them into this really over the top, detailed spectacle. It seems like so far they have done a lot better job being creative with them in 11 than they did in X where they seemed to rely more on the detail of the gore/anatomy for shock value.

So overall I am pretty damn happy with the whole Fatality/Brutality situation in this game.

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thisiscourage
03/28/2019 06:04 PM (UTC)
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FistfulOfDatas

Fatalities in the old school 2D games had a different feel as they happened much more quickly. It gave it more of an, "oh shit!" factor than when they are so drawn out and dramatic. It was more like, "Bang! You're dead motherfucker!". That's what I really appreciate about the Brutalities which were introduced in X, they feel more like the old school Fatalities in that sense.

The psychology of Fatalities in the games now is to make them into this really over the top, detailed spectacle. It seems like so far they have done a lot better job being creative with them in 11 than they did in X where they seemed to rely more on the detail of the gore/anatomy for shock value.

So overall I am pretty damn happy with the whole Fatality/Brutality situation in this game.

I hear ya. I personally love the brutalities, Everytime I see one, even the easy uppercut Brutality, I am like "woa!" .

The fatalities have been really good in MK11 so far. I just wish they provided a button input to see them like the old school 2D games. It would feel more fluid rather than a cut scene.

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umbrascitor
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03/29/2019 05:03 AM (UTC)
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For those curious, here's what some MKX Fatalities look like with the camera hacked to show the classic view:

https://youtu.be/EgYaA4QSTuQ

The fixed-cam view really makes it clear how much editing goes into the cinematics to make them pop. Lightning changes, etc. It's a rather bizarre look behind the curtain sometimes, with unused character models blinking out of existence until they're needed again, characters teleporting around the stage.... With a lot of these you kinda have to use your imagination to get what the Fatality would look like without all the editing tricks.

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predac0n
03/29/2019 05:07 AM (UTC)
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I think it's as simple as adding an option of a "retro camera" more options is never a bad thing, but this is the artistic direction they wanted to go in because they want to show off all the new facial animation tech

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Spirit_Wolf
03/29/2019 08:56 AM (UTC)
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It's not as simple as you might think, because then they would need to make full animations for the fatalities, because most animations are only done which are in view of the camera. Most of those fatalities would look lame in klassic view, because it's being up close that makes them impressive.

I actually don't even know why bother, because that is what the brutalities are exactly for. Easy to pull of "klassic" fatalities with a klassic camera angle. And characters have more brutalities than fatalities. So in this case this seems more like an "I want it all" kind of thing instead of just being happy that the brutalities deliver what you are exactly asking for, in plenty amount.

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EndoScorpion
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03/29/2019 10:56 AM (UTC)
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umbrascitor

For those curious, here's what some MKX Fatalities look like with the camera hacked to show the classic view:

https://youtu.be/EgYaA4QSTuQ

The fixed-cam view really makes it clear how much editing goes into the cinematics to make them pop. Lightning changes, etc. It's a rather bizarre look behind the curtain sometimes, with unused character models blinking out of existence until they're needed again, characters teleporting around the stage.... With a lot of these you kinda have to use your imagination to get what the Fatality would look like without all the editing tricks.

Definitely not as simple as just adding another camera, as shown in that video.

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ballerj91
03/29/2019 12:09 PM (UTC)
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This reminds me of a thought I had a couple years ago, that I wish NRS would do a full 2D classic style return. Even if only a mini-game, preferably a lower budget old school release. Get 5 actors, bring back that green screen, everything. That would be so dope and contrary to expectations.

I really would like that. As for fatalities, I don't know. My main issue is the post-fatality animations that freeze, I think it's too much. No biggie.

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