Mortal Kombat 11: The Jacqui Dilemma (Does A Bad Character Stay Bad?)
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posted01/28/2019 02:41 PM (UTC)by
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02/22/2006 12:35 AM (UTC)

Given the heavy flow of opposition I've seen, I've decided to make a thread to discuss this issue.

It seems many fans, here at least, are strongly opposed to Jacqui Briggs. Claims have been made that she is a boring and lacking character. Personally, I agree. HOWEVER, here is where the problem rises:

In a thread detailing a possible leaked roster, which happened to include Jacqui Briggs, users were highly detesting it, stating she should not return because she is so boring and lacking, implying she would be exactly the same as she was before. This must stop.

This is not just an issue with Jacqui, however, but a problem stretching over 20 years. Characters with low impressions are immediately written off as eternally bad characters. Fans - and developers - approach and address these characters as if it is humanly impossible to make them any better than they were before. Some fans act as though to bring such a character back would mean making them as bad as they were before. Neither of those concepts is true.

Many characters, from Jacqui Briggs, to Stryker in the 90s, to Ashrah, to Kai, to Jarek, to Dairou, to even the infamous Drahmin and Hsu Hao. These characters aren't bad because they were predestined to be. They're bad because the developers made them that way. Instead of casting them out, why not actually give them the opportunity to become better than they were? Why not give them proper development? For truly, a character is only as bad as we allow them to be.

What are you thoughts on this? Feel free to reply.

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chadspade
01/28/2019 05:22 PM (UTC)
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Honestly, Jacqui has potential. Stryker was redeemed in MK9 in my opinion. He was totally badass and hia design looked good. I think if Jacqui does indeed return, she should replace Jax altogether. Maybe give her a variation in which she has arms like her father and let her borrow some of his trademark moves and give her some new moves. In X, I think she looked rushed design wise but that can easily be fixed.

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Jacqui_bae_briggs
01/28/2019 05:27 PM (UTC)
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I agree, characters can improve from game to game but at the end of the day, its not possible for a character to satisfy every person's sensibilities. Look at Stryker, he improved a lot in MK9 but if you in general just don't like a character designed around guns, grenades, and batons that is dressed in swat gear, there is really nothing much that can be done to make Stryker appealing to you.

That's how I feel about a bulk of the criticism towards Jacqui. Sure, you can pizzazz up her look, but she's never going to wear cosplay outfits, cast spells, bend elements, or wield a samurai sword or something. If she returns back in MK11, she’ll most likely still be a SF character, just in a different outfit with new and flashier high-tech gadgets and weaponry. Thus, if you found her archetype boring before, you will feel more or less the same way. It is what it is.

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Onaga
01/28/2019 05:39 PM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 03:11 AM (UTC)
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No MK character is a lost cause. The issue, especially with the Kombat Kids lies in their execution. The first issue is the lackluster designs; but that was an issue all around for the cast in MKX. The next issue that hamstrung the Kids was the role they were meant to play which was being the young replacements of the legacy characters. (Don't do that NRS it never works.)

So they were basically designed to be lesser clones of characters who already existed, but characters who were in the game with them. This is especially an issue for Jacqui and with NRS doing this they robbed them of their own unique identity, and those that did have some semblance of unique identity that differentiated them their predecessors were dampened and held back due to bad writing and dull design. (Yo Takeda & Kung Jin!)

I said it in the "Kombat Kids Are Dead" Thread that in order for them to be redeemed they would have to undergo some radical redesigns to spice them up and differentiate them from their parents.

An idea I had for this at least for Jacqui was to remove her from the basic Marine with shotgun cuffs AKA Discount Jax and spice her up in terms of story and aesthetic.

How I was going to do that was have half of her get blown up, repaired by a hiding Sektor who would save her, fix her with its tech and use her as a sleeper thrall.

This was the end result.

(Tried hiding these with a spoiler but it doesn't seem to want to work?)

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Jacqui_bae_briggs
01/28/2019 05:44 PM (UTC)
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chadspade

Honestly, Jacqui has potential. Stryker was redeemed in MK9 in my opinion. He was totally badass and hia design looked good. I think if Jacqui does indeed return, she should replace Jax altogether. Maybe give her a variation in which she has arms like her father and let her borrow some of his trademark moves and give her some new moves. In X, I think she looked rushed design wise but that can easily be fixed.

Disagree with that idea. I don't want Jacqui to be a grappler/boxing powerhouse character or copying Jax's signature moves like Gotcha Grab and Dash punch. The gadget fighter aspect of her design should be expanded upon and explored so she can be more of her own character. Moving her more into the direction of being a gender swap of Jax will just result in pissing Jax fan's off and causing them to resent her.

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xysion
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01/28/2019 06:15 PM (UTC)
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The rationale behind not having Jacqui not returning is that people are wanting characters on the here and now not on the potential improvement that character could have in MK11. There are characters that people like and have the potential to be even cooler than they are now.

Jacqui has no particular stand out features which is why people complain she is bland. Her army brat background coupled with sass did not resonate with most players and I do not balme them. There is nothing flashy or cool about her design or her moves.

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SmokeSignals
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01/28/2019 06:37 PM (UTC)
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The problem with Jacqui is she's just not interesting and unless they change up her design she'll continue to be bland. Name one real unique feature about her that's not related to her father or being a Kombat Kid?

To make her different, they need to inject some life-altering circumstances for her or give her some kind of ability rather than SF issued tech. The idea above is interesting and a partly developed female cyborg would be a different spin on things for sure. It would also make Jax more relevant and give him a new story arc to develop, pitting father against daughter.

We are missing an evil cyborg now are we not with Sektor out of the frame?

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thisiscourage
01/28/2019 06:43 PM (UTC)Edited 01/28/2019 06:45 PM (UTC)
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Jacqui_bae_briggs

I agree, characters can improve from game to game but at the end of the day, its not possible for a character to satisfy every person's sensibilities. Look at Stryker, he improved a lot in MK9 but if you in general just don't like a character designed around guns, grenades, and batons that is dressed in swat gear, there is really nothing much that can be done to make Stryker appealing to you.

That's how I feel about a bulk of the criticism towards Jacqui. Sure, you can pizzazz up her look, but she's never going to wear cosplay outfits, cast spells, bend elements, or wield a samurai sword or something. If she returns back in MK11, she’ll most likely still be a SF character, just in a different outfit with new and flashier high-tech gadgets and weaponry. Thus, if you found her archetype boring before, you will feel more or less the same way. It is what it is.

This.

i think the backlash with Jacqui is that she is SF. She is boring because there is nothing special about her... she uses gadgets to make her special.

That, and I am of the opinion that NRS takes up way too many spots with SF characters... so boring. Why “boring”? because if you gave Stryker Sonya or Cassie any of Jacqui’s gadgets no one would ever know the difference because it fits their archetype too.

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Detox
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01/28/2019 06:56 PM (UTC)
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My issue is not necessarily that Jacqui is bad and can never be redeemed. My issue is that there are characters 10X more interesting than her that have yet to receive their second chance and there's Jacqui, one of the consensus worst characters from MKX, immediately getting another shot.

It's not that I never want to see her get another chance, it's that I'd rather see others get their second chance first. Call it being salty if you must, but that's just kinda where my head is at with the whole thing.

So home life dealing with Jax' post traumatic stress disorder from his time as Quan Chi's minion in the Netherrealm wasn't a life altering? Why is her design boring? Tech gauntlets aside, is she too "normal"? Not everyone can be a magic alien robot god. MORTAL Kombat needs mortals. Normal real poeple dealing with the brutally savage, mind bending reality of the Mortal Kombat universe outside Earth. Survivors of attempted invasions by demons, and MK's implied god of death.

I love her design, and play style the way she is. She's a different kind of Sektor, don't cyberize her. On 1 hand, that'd be copying Sektor outright. On the other hand, Sektor could assimilate her, and she'd get a taste of what Jax went through.

Ka-Tra

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Gillbob316
01/28/2019 07:51 PM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 12:53 AM (UTC)
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Detox

My issue is not necessarily that Jacqui is bad and can never be redeemed. My issue is that there are characters 10X more interesting than her that have yet to receive their second chance and there's Jacqui, one of the consensus worst characters from MKX, immediately getting another shot.

It's not that I never want to see her get another chance, it's that I'd rather see others get their second chance first. Call it being salty if you must, but that's just kinda where my head is at with the whole thing.

That's a pretty good sum up of the problem imo.

I didn't even hate Jacqui, per say, just found her the most uninteresting in a sea of otherwise more interesting new characters. I actually found her gameplay rather fun at times, and I loved her fatality where she blew the other character's back out. But her design & backstory were just fairly ho-hum.

I saw some Jacqui concept art from MKX about a week ago, and some of her early designs have about 1000x more personality than her final design. (Seriously, google Jacqui Briggs concept art. Some of her early concepts are WAY more visually interesting, if also more outlandish). Some of them look a little over-the-top, a little garrish, and some even err a little on the side of negative stereotypes (which I'm sure they wanted to avoid)... and several don't really look like they'd suit her final character concept & backstory (which was more down to earth). So I'm guessing they tried to pull her final design back down to earth accordingly, and make it more believable, but ultimately I think they pulled too far in that direction. She could have use a little more flavor, frankly.

BUT ULTIMATELY... the Jacqui we got is the Jacqui we got, and the Jacqui we got failed to captivate. It's not that I don't think they can do better... but we have a line of similar characters dating back to MK4 (and we're on 11 now)... and yeah, many of them have been waiting for a 2nd chance far longer than Jacqui.

I'm honestly particularly fond of Deadly Alliance. It had its gameplay problems, but I love the story, tone & feel of that game. It reminded me of MK1 in a lot of ways. I'd really love to see Nitara get a second chance re-imagining (I don't even think Nitara was bad on the first go around. I'll give you Vampires can at times be cliche, but I enjoyed her as a character, I enjoyed playing as her, and I enjoyed her story)... I think Moloch & Drahmin could be cool if used the right way, though I'm not particularly in love with either. I didn't love Mavado or Hsu Hao, but I think the Red Dragon started off as a good concept that ultimately just fell flat because the characters supporting it weren't strong. I liked the idea behind Frost a great deal, as an apprentice to Sub-Zero, but I'll give you, her gameplay was fairly uninspired, as she ripped off his schtick. That said, I loved the idea they toyed with in MKX, of Scorpion & Sub-Zero both having a young apprentice type character... and I'd love to see some rivalry story playout between Frost & Takeda. I liked Li Mei's gameplay a lot, though her story never took me as anything special. I've always been of the opinion Bo Rai Cho would be better if he was a serious character, and ditched the farts & puke... still funny, still jovial, still humorous... just... not outlandishly disgusting. But NRS seems hell bent on keeping the farts & puke... so... I give up on him I guess, lol.

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DDustiNN
01/28/2019 07:57 PM (UTC)
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If anyone can do it, it’s NRS. I mean, look what they did with Aquaman. Often a joke of a character, they turned him into a total badass (before Jason Mamoa).

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newt27
01/28/2019 08:43 PM (UTC)
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Riyakou
stating she should not return because she is so boring and lacking, implying she would be exactly the same as she was before. This must stop.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that a character shouldn't return if they are so boring and lacking in the previous installment.

I also agree that her being boring before doesn't mean she won't be boring again.

The caveat here is that major changes need to be made in order to make her not boring (to most, granted its an opinion. Seems to be a popular one though).

Why even use the same character if you will have to make so many changes in order to make them palatable? The only way I will be happy with the decision to put Jaqui back in is if something drastic like @onaga said. To me, this would basically make her a new character which seems necessary in order for her to do well.

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01/28/2019 09:49 PM (UTC)
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Detox

My issue is not necessarily that Jacqui is bad and can never be redeemed. My issue is that there are characters 10X more interesting than her that have yet to receive their second chance and there's Jacqui, one of the consensus worst characters from MKX, immediately getting another shot.

It's not that I never want to see her get another chance, it's that I'd rather see others get their second chance first. Call it being salty if you must, but that's just kinda where my head is at with the whole thing.

I sorta agree and disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of other characters who need proper development and a second chance, and they need to return. However, the reason they haven't is because NRS has constantly shoved away characters the moment they make them. With Jacqui, there is an opportunity to improve her without abandoning her for 10+ years. Maybe now, for the first time, they're trying to not do that. And I'm all for it.

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ErmaSco
01/28/2019 10:01 PM (UTC)
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She should just be a one game only character.

Nothing is interesting about her. It almost felt as if NRS was like " we need a black girl in the game that's not Jade"

Offsprings are almost always a bad idea in games. They are just boring and serve no purpose other than go push their parents stories. Take it the other way, what would u think of her if Jax wasn't a character or if she wants his kid ?

Sorry but she stands where Dairou and Darius are.

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Onaga
01/29/2019 12:22 AM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 12:32 AM (UTC)
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Tetra_Vega

So home life dealing with Jax' post traumatic stress disorder from his time as Quan Chi's minion in the Netherrealm wasn't a life altering? Why is her design boring? Tech gauntlets aside, is she too "normal"? Not everyone can be a magic alien robot god. MORTAL Kombat needs mortals. Normal real poeple dealing with the brutally savage, mind bending reality of the Mortal Kombat universe outside Earth. Survivors of attempted invasions by demons, and MK's implied god of death.

I love her design, and play style the way she is. She's a different kind of Sektor, don't cyberize her. On 1 hand, that'd be copying Sektor outright. On the other hand, Sektor could assimilate her, and she'd get a taste of what Jax went through.

Ka-Tra

That actually was the idea behind my design and story for her. That Sektor would be rebuilding itself and would be slowly assimilating her. She practically would be already, it's just Sektor would be biding its time before it "assumed control."

It (Sektor) wouldn't want all eyes of the unified forces of Earthrealm on it too soon. So in the mean time it would just use Jacqui as a unknowing spy. Lurking behind her eyes and observing.

I thought this would create more conflict for her, feeling as though something alien is lingering within her along with her coping with the fact that she's more machine now. Something I thought would create a bridge between her and her father along with knock some of that insufferable Joss Whedon quipifying out of her.

As for your question about what makes her boring. Practicality. It's what made all the Special Forces characters, and a good majority of others boring in MKX. The designs were too grounded. Fighting game characters are supposed to be larger than life and wear their personalities and stories.

As Ed Boon once said. "Reality is boring, nobody wants to pay for reality."

Sonya and Jax, though military characters, had some pretty eccentric designs back in the day. Hell look at characters like Orchid or Cammy. I'm not saying have her flash her backside but at least make her and the rest of them look cool. That alone can make up for a dull story/personality.

Kano was nothing but a cutthroat mob boss. But he has a cybernetic eye, shaves with a knife that could cleave through ones head in one stroke and wore outfits that looked like they were lifted out of Wolverine's closet.

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Wandering Jacqui Briggs Fan
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My favorite kombatant is Jacqui Briggs and no one can change my mind!

Creator:Mortal Kombat Armageddon All-Stars, MK fanseries based on Total Drama.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf09CtI2VGXrXlYJdUB2zLcR1SNzFtRa6

01/29/2019 12:36 AM (UTC)
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As someone who had a crush on Jacqui, I say she deserve better. All she needs is a chance to shine and develop more to win hearts.

Wouldn't be surprised if she's erased from the timeline thanks to Kronika's meddling. I would probably remain sad.

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eevan79
01/29/2019 12:57 AM (UTC)
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I agree, I persoanlly think that all characters can be written better and made up to actually have something to do! Some will be easier than others but, they all deserve a chance.

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Gillbob316
01/29/2019 01:00 AM (UTC)
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JacquIreBriggs

As someone who had a crush on Jacqui, I say she deserve better. All she needs is a chance to shine and develop more to win hearts.

Wouldn't be surprised if she's erased from the timeline thanks to Kronika's meddling. I would probably remain sad.

I honestly hate when they do things like that in this franchise. Because it NEVER sticks, WE know it never sticks, THEY know it never sticks... so what the hell is the point?

I don't like "everybody dies" plots in this franchise, I don't like "erased from existence" I don't like "turned into a cyborg" ... I don't even REALLY like the "canon" story deaths they gave to characters like Baraka, Mileena, or half the cast of MK9...

Because this is the one franchise where it ABSOLUTELY NEVER STICKS... lol. So it's always like, "Who are you trying to kid? You're just trying to get this character out of the way for a while. We all KNOW he/she will be back eventually."

... I like to believe a third Armageddon/Trilogy complete cast game will come someday. Though I know, the better technology gets, the more work that entails. So it may never happen. But I like to believe it could happen, lol. And if it ever does, all these allegedly dead or erased from time people are just going to be a big messy ball of BS unexplained resurrection like they were in Armageddon.

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Onaga
01/29/2019 02:49 AM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 02:56 AM (UTC)
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Gillbob316
JacquIreBriggs

As someone who had a crush on Jacqui, I say she deserve better. All she needs is a chance to shine and develop more to win hearts.

Wouldn't be surprised if she's erased from the timeline thanks to Kronika's meddling. I would probably remain sad.

I honestly hate when they do things like that in this franchise. Because it NEVER sticks, WE know it never sticks, THEY know it never sticks... so what the hell is the point?

I don't like "everybody dies" plots in this franchise, I don't like "erased from existence" I don't like "turned into a cyborg" ... I don't even REALLY like the "canon" story deaths they gave to characters like Baraka, Mileena, or half the cast of MK9...

Because this is the one franchise where it ABSOLUTELY NEVER STICKS... lol. So it's always like, "Who are you trying to kid? You're just trying to get this character out of the way for a while. We all KNOW he/she will be back eventually."

Agreed, death is usually just a cheap shock value gimmick in the story mode ie the Sindel slaughter in MK9 or is just a finishing blow for lazy writting ei Quan Chi. Why anyone treats that death seriously makes no sense.

We all know death is never an end for anyone's adventure in MK so why does anyone ever treat it as a big deal. And as for this whole "wipe someone from a timeline" shtick, we know there are multiple timelines now thanks to Kitana's ending (I don't care what Vogel says the guy can hardly maintain consistency these days.) So again it wouldn't matter because these characters will exist in another timeline.

I just want NRS to be consistent and commit to their roster and characters. If you're not going to put them on the roster because it might be too bloated, then at least have them be story players.

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01/29/2019 04:12 AM (UTC)
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ErmaSco

She should just be a one game only character.

Nothing is interesting about her. It almost felt as if NRS was like " we need a black girl in the game that's not Jade"

Offsprings are almost always a bad idea in games. They are just boring and serve no purpose other than go push their parents stories. Take it the other way, what would u think of her if Jax wasn't a character or if she wants his kid ?

Sorry but she stands where Dairou and Darius are.

Your reply is exactly the point of this thread. You're acting as though if she were to return she'd be just as bad as before.

Why do you seem to believe there is no way for her (or Dairou and Darrius) to be improved or better developed?

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umbrascitor
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01/29/2019 04:48 AM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 05:08 AM (UTC)
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I like Jacqui a lot on her own terms. She has enough of a backstory; fan favorites from all eras have gotten away with less. Her appearance is fine, for a human on the non-magical end of the spectrum. The problem for me is how she intersects with other members of the cast -- namely, I think that of all people, it's actually Sonya who's getting in her way the most. Lemme explain:

MKX was distractingly tech-heavy compared to other MK games. I got a similar impression when I first played MK3: that with three different robots and Kabal and Jax having cyborg rocket launcher arms, so much of the cast was anchored in the "futuristic" theme that it severely lost touch with the mystical atmosphere of Mortal Kombat. It took a couple more games before I felt like the balance had been properly restored; when Deadly Alliance came out, there was a strong thread of techy futurism in Cyrax and the Outerworld Investigation Agency, but it was one thread in a well-conceived tapestry of "martial arts fantasy with interdimensional creatures." It added something to the setting without completely hijacking it.

MKX saw the fantasy get overrun by high-tech elements all over again. Even something as quintessentially Mortal Kombat as walking through a portal was presented as being more artificial than mystical. And as much as it makes perfect sense that Earth would defend itself against a demon invasion using the best resources it has -- guns and technology -- it was still pretty jarring to see so many characters using military tech in their primary arsenal.

With Jax, giving him a range of military hardware made sense. We'd seen him with rocket arms and a machine gun in previous games, and we can buy into him being a heavy weapons kind of guy. His upgrade makes sense.

Takeda looks high-tech but still fits squarely in the "ninja" archetype, way more so than the Cyber Lin Kuei of MK3. So he gets a pass.

Cassie has handguns and airstrikes in her arsenal... but it's just one element in her triple balance of magic powers, stylish acrobatics, and military assets. The fact that she is an effective Jill-of-all-trades yet doesn't lean heavily in any one direction, is the trait that makes her stand out from all other MK characters.

Which brings us to Jacqui and Sonya (and at long last, my point).

Sonya just got upgraded with all sorts of gadgets like trick grenades and drones, but we've never known Sonya to be a gadgety kind of character. She had always fit into a more James Bond-ish brand of femme fatale archetype: acrobatics, leg holds, kiss of death. Her ring blaster was the extent of her tech arsenal, simple and potent and flashy. The developers could have taken some cues from Black Widow and made her a grappler with a classically feminine twist, giving her the garrote wire and maybe some more options with her poison powder. Sure, she's a general and has deep connections to the military... but let's not forget what her skillset was that got her to the position she's in today. Maximize that skillset to its fullest potential --

-- and let Jacqui, representative of a new tech-savvy generation and daughter of computers-and-technology genius Jax, play with these newfangled drones and trick grenades. Make Jacqui the one truly gadgety character of Mortal Kombat, and now you have yourself a character hook that people can get behind.

Sonya is old-school, and I think she would have done more good staying in that lane so that a character like Jacqui could take full advantage from being in the "next generation." Heavy weaponry is Jax's angle. Taking command of the situation with her own two hands is Sonya's angle, and if they'd kept her that way, she would've contributed less to the tech-heavy slant of MKX. And let the new kid play with the fancy new toys.

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umbrascitor
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Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve.

~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie

01/29/2019 04:57 AM (UTC)
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This was supposed to be an edit, not a new post, WTF

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VenoMark
01/29/2019 10:16 AM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 10:21 AM (UTC)
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Considering that we're being given the option to customize a character's special moves set, I'd say the idea of handing off some of her father's special moves to Jacqui is acceptable. She is Jax's daughter, after all. So, it'd only make sense that she at least emulates some of his special moves. She's already got her version of the Ground Pound. So, seeing as how Jax will probably be eliminated from the roster at some point over the next couple installments, I believe, so long as it's handled properly, paying homage to an underutilized character in Jax would be deemed acceptable by even the most critical of fans. In doing so, she doesn't have to be a copycat. Possessing a couple of Jax's trademark moves (Gotcha Grab, Multi-Slam, Purple Wave) to go along with her unique move set could fix a lot of the issue I, personally, had with playing her.

Although she could deal massive damage with or without meter, my biggest gripe about her had nothing to do with her move set (Full-Auto spammers are very easily exploited if you're patient), but with the fact that she had the arms of a freakin' T. rex. I mained her shotgun variation for awhile, but found that getting in on opponents was a nightmare of an issue given how short her reach is.

Though I do believe bringing in the offspring of past characters is very much a cliche and more in the vein of MK fan fiction, I did find myself drawn to Jacqui because of the details behind her rocky relationship with Jax. That part of her storyline differs greatly from that of past characters. We've seen plenty of unending rivalries (Scorpion/Sub-Zero, Kano/Sonya, to name a couple), and the overused "good guy just trying to do his part in saving the world" plots. It was a nice change of pace to see Jacqui rebelling against her father because of the rocky history of their father/daughter relationship.

I, for one, would welcome a return by Jacqui (same goes for Takeda, Cassie, and Kung Jin) so long as she was given a bit more mobility. Currently, she seems like a good idea that went awry entirely as a result of what seems to have been a lack of ingenuity when it came to how she would play.

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Masr
01/29/2019 12:05 PM (UTC)Edited 01/29/2019 12:13 PM (UTC)
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Onaga

After seeing these, Master Raven (from Tekken 7) comes to mind.

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