Would this MK11 roster be better? Story video inside too
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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/09/2019 08:00 PM EST
mattteo

So....you guys still think this would have been worse than what we got?

Yes, and don't thread bump.

Any game with Taven in it is always going to be at the bottom of the barrell for me. I'd take Daegon, Shujinko, Jarek, Kai, Kira, hell even Darrius, Kobra, or Hsu Hao over Taven.

In fact, I hate Taven so much that -as a Sub-Zero main- I'd opt for Sub-Zero sitting out a game if it meant stopping Taven from being IN a game.

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 01:59 AM EST

The only way this could be worse is if you included Mokap

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 02:04 AM EST
kombat_king

The only way this could be worse is if you included Mokap

I wouldn't worry about that, he'd just complain about Mokap getting his balls stomped by Sonya.

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 05:15 AM EST
Coltess

Any game with Taven in it is always going to be at the bottom of the barrell for me. I'd take Daegon, Shujinko, Jarek, Kai, Kira, hell even Darrius, Kobra, or Hsu Hao over Taven.

In fact, I hate Taven so much that -as a Sub-Zero main- I'd opt for Sub-Zero sitting out a game if it meant stopping Taven from being IN a game.

What's your problem with Taven? A lot of people like him. I guess it really pained you thatvhe took the place of Liu Kang or Shujinko as protagonist. You act like it's an affront to you pwrsonally.

News flash honey: stop saying your opinion as fact. Look at this: https://youtu.be/IlEOIOr2U-Y

See how many people upvoted and how many downvoted. Casuals.

And this live was just made last night: https://youtu.be/82r0CezqymM

Just look how many people were asking about Taven in the message box. And BruskPoet says at one point "Taven is my faourite 3D era character" and "I'd really want Taven, Daegon and Reiko in rhe game too" repeating what was written in the messages.

Taven was a much better protagonist than Cassie:

-time-bending powers

-has his own dragon (imagine if they put him in the game and you could summon Orin or Caro!)

-slept for thousands of years and kicked the asses of Sonya, Sub-Zero, Goro,Raiden, Scorpion and may others just after waking up.

-has a tragic family backstory

-Ben Affleck!!!

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 09:03 AM EST
02/10/2019 09:20 AM EST
mattteo

What's your problem with Taven? A lot of people like him. I guess it really pained you thatvhe took the place of Liu Kang or Shujinko as protagonist. You act like it's an affront to you pwrsonally.

News flash honey: stop saying your opinion as fact. Look at this: https://youtu.be/IlEOIOr2U-Y

See how many people upvoted and how many downvoted. Casuals.

And this live was just made last night: https://youtu.be/82r0CezqymM

Just look how many people were asking about Taven in the message box. And BruskPoet says at one point "Taven is my faourite 3D era character" and "I'd really want Taven, Daegon and Reiko in rhe game too" repeating what was written in the messages.

Taven was a much better protagonist than Cassie:

-time-bending powers

-has his own dragon (imagine if they put him in the game and you could summon Orin or Caro!)

-slept for thousands of years and kicked the asses of Sonya, Sub-Zero, Goro,Raiden, Scorpion and may others just after waking up.

-has a tragic family backstory

-Ben Affleck!!!

Credit where it's due: If Taven were known for his more interesting time powers and given a stronger dragon motif, instead of the boring as hell fire-based moveset he was given in MKA, he would indeed be pretty interesting from a gameplay/visual standpoint. A refresh on the character seems appropriate at some point, and for Daegon as well.

I have a question for you though: Why is it that you consider Taven to be a badass because he can beat up an endless string of classic MK fighters after being in hibernation for tens of millions of years... but you can't stomach the fact that Cassie, born to two of Earth's greatest heroes and descended from a line of superpowered champions for the gods, with a lifetime of training from her parents and then the military, can't put down a foe like Shinnok (whom we know has been bested by a highly skilled mortal before)?

Taven is an actual demigod, presumably immortal, who can stop time, and whose tragic story has no bearing on his ability to wipe the floor with any opponent he meets. Unlike Cassie, Shujinko, or Liu Kang, he is in no way an underdog in his fight; he is merely carrying on with the plan set down for his life eons ago. And despite his brother seemingly having a slight head start, his own path is going exactly according to plan, traitorous brother and all.

Daegon, his only real adversary, was set up to fail from the very beginning by their parents. Taven's quest is not a struggle. He's just a pawn in a game, moving steadily forward as a pawn does. Nothing interesting really happens to him until the very end, when the cosmic plan for his life finally goes wrong. (Either because Blaze's power didn't do the thing it was supposed to do... or because Shao Kahn threw a hammer in the works and spoiled everything, in which case, Taven is freaking dead after never making any real decisions for his own life or impacting the future in any way.) Taven never grows, changes, or advances as a character; neither does he make any actual impact on the story just by being who he is and sticking to it. He's merely a plot device.

Now, Cassie isn't a particularly interesting character either, as she's openly riding on the coattails of her parents for both her skills and personality traits. But at least we get to see her work, fail a little bit, and grow into the role of leader and champion that was set before her. She has to earn the legacy of her parents, in contrast to Taven being essentially led by the hand through his every success by his parents. Between the two, I think Cassie's journey makes a better narrative.

I actually kind of liked Taven after the game ended, when I was curious to see how this fish-out-of-water guy living in a future he barely understands is going to deal with the cosmic scale mistake his parents made, with no more Hand of Destiny to guide him. Does he learn a lesson about the pitfalls of following orders he doesn't truly believe in, or the value of taking up one's destiny in their own hands? I'm really curious to see what might happen with him in this new timeline, when everything has gone off the rails and he has to do something with his life without a prophecy to follow. Similarly, I think now that Cassie is all grown up after the events of MKX, she can potentially emerge from the shadow of her parents and become more of her own person. But as the two of them currently stand? I think they did better with Cassie, and it'll be easier to move her forward than find something for Taven to do that isn't wrapped up in the old timeline.

P.S.: You really gotta stop citing votes on a YouTube video as a measure of how "right" an opinion is. Also, Coltess never made a claim that their opinion was fact. That was you.

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 09:16 AM EST
02/10/2019 09:28 AM EST
mattteo
Coltess

Any game with Taven in it is always going to be at the bottom of the barrell for me. I'd take Daegon, Shujinko, Jarek, Kai, Kira, hell even Darrius, Kobra, or Hsu Hao over Taven.

In fact, I hate Taven so much that -as a Sub-Zero main- I'd opt for Sub-Zero sitting out a game if it meant stopping Taven from being IN a game.

What's your problem with Taven? A lot of people like him. I guess it really pained you thatvhe took the place of Liu Kang or Shujinko as protagonist. You act like it's an affront to you pwrsonally.

News flash honey: stop saying your opinion as fact. Look at this: https://youtu.be/IlEOIOr2U-Y

See how many people upvoted and how many downvoted. Casuals.

And this live was just made last night: https://youtu.be/82r0CezqymM

Just look how many people were asking about Taven in the message box. And BruskPoet says at one point "Taven is my faourite 3D era character" and "I'd really want Taven, Daegon and Reiko in rhe game too" repeating what was written in the messages.

Taven was a much better protagonist than Cassie:

-time-bending powers

-has his own dragon (imagine if they put him in the game and you could summon Orin or Caro!)

-slept for thousands of years and kicked the asses of Sonya, Sub-Zero, Goro,Raiden, Scorpion and may others just after waking up.

-has a tragic family backstory

-Ben Affleck!!!

What are you on? I never presented anything as fact. All of my language conveys that I was expressing an opinion.

Now first and foremost, I don't give a damn about the opinions of some youtuber. You asked a question and I answered in the negative. Don't throw a hissy-fit when you don't get the response you desire. It seems that just about every thread you stick your head into, you're picking fights.

Secondly, the behind the warrior video was both Taven and Daegon and was likely upvoted for a well made video in an ongoing series. While some people in the comments do appear to like the character, you also have a large contingent of people mocking Taven for how useless he was. In fact, most people defending Taven start their post with "I may be in the minority..." Acknowledging the fanbase does not have much love for Taven.

Now if you want me to explain why I loathe Taven so immensely:

His story is extremely boring and derivative, even by Mortal Kombat standards. It's certainly not tragic. Oh, mummy and daddums were killed by your evil twin! Someone call General Hospital! Taven has had the most paint by numbers story in the whole or MK.

He's about as wooden as a cigar store Indian and as interesting as packing peanuts. He's a half-god frozen in stone, and yet he's more boring than Shujinko, who spent 20 years in prison for violating curfew. His whole identity has absolutely zero to do with him. He's defined by his brother and his parents. Tell me, outside of killing Blaze and Daegon what is Taven? A guy in a black shirt with a face tattoo.

-Taven is a huge Mary Sue. Cassie at least got her ass handed to her a few times. Taven- a nobody whose powers are chalked up to being a half-god -waltzes in and dispatches legacy characters. What are we meant to feel for Taven? We have no connection to him. Why should we care about his asshole parents?

-Why do we need Taven for dragons? I'm less adverse to Daegon because Daegon actually has some characterization. Furthermore, is this a special move you're presenting? So Taven just summons the dragon for half a second? Why couldn't LITERALLY ANY CHARACTER do that as well?

-Time bending powers? What are you talking about? Taven never had the ability to bend time. He could freeze time as a battle mechanic during Konquest. He never used it in combat or fighting. Geras has the time mechanic anyway.

I don't care for Ben Affleck. Decent enough director, but his acting leaves a lot to be desired.

If you're going to be hanging around these boards, you really need to check your attitude at the door, kiddo. You're giving off Hanky_Panky1 vibes, and believe me, you don't want to do that.

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 09:32 AM EST
02/10/2019 09:36 AM EST
coltess

It's certainly not tragic. Oh, mummy and daddums were killed by your evil twin!

He's about as wooden as a cigar store Indian

A guy in a black shirt with a face tattoo.

I'm less adverse to Daegon because Daegon actually has some characterization

1. They're not twins. Daegon is the little brother. You should seriously learn what you're talking about before you claim something.

2. Yet generic Indian guy Nightwolf I bet is high on your list

3. You're basically describing Noob Saibot. What is he more than a guy all dressed in black with no development other than "muh, evil brother"?

4. My point exactly. If ANY of these post-trilogy characters would get SOME charcaterization, they'd be beloved too, as happened to Quan Chi, Kenshi, Tanya, Havik, Reiko, Fujin, Sareena. It would happen to all. There are some very cool concepts there, they just need their chance and a writer like Shawn Kittelsen to work with them

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RE: Roster I made for MK11 2 years ago. Would it have been better than what the current roster shapes up to be?
02/10/2019 09:55 AM EST
02/10/2019 10:06 AM EST
mattteo
coltess

It's certainly not tragic. Oh, mummy and daddums were killed by your evil twin!

He's about as wooden as a cigar store Indian

A guy in a black shirt with a face tattoo.

I'm less adverse to Daegon because Daegon actually has some characterization

1. They're not twins. Daegon is the little brother. You should seriously learn what you're talking about before you claim something.

2. Yet generic Indian guy Nightwolf I bet is high on your list

3. You're basically describing Noob Saibot. What is he more than a guy all dressed in black with no development other than "muh, evil brother"?

4. My point exactly. If ANY of these post-trilogy characters would get SOME charcaterization, they'd be beloved too, as happened to Quan Chi, Kenshi, Tanya, Havik, Reiko, Fujin, Sareena. It would happen to all. There are some very cool concepts there, they just need their chance and a writer like Shawn Kittelsen to work with them

1. Learn to recognize hyperbole and mockery. I referred to him as an evil twin to draw on the ridiculous soap opera elements of his backstory. General Hospital was a long running soap opera featuring many ludicrous stories involving patricide, matricide, and evil twins.

2. Not really. Nightwolf got some decent development in Deception and MK 9, but I've never liked him. Certainly a better design than Taven. Also, I think I need to explain to you that a Cigar Store Indian is a piece of wooden advertising used to mark tobacco shops in the late 19th and early 20th century. You seemed to jump to Nightwolf pretty quick just because I said Indian.

3. Noob Saibot, who I also don't care for but like more than Taven, is a wraith. He is an evil spirit consumed and metamorphosed by the evils he committed in life. We didn't even know that Noob was Sub-Zero's brother until Deception. With that element remove, Noob remains a member of the Brotherhood of Shadow and a wraith.

4. Not every character is worthy of redemption or needs a return. Taven was created as a nullifier for Armageddon -both in story and in practice. How much are you going to alter his story to get people to care about him? Why not just craft a different character? This isn't like Rain who was severely underdeveloped; we actually know Taven's purpose. Is Taven now just going to be hunting his brother to avenge their parents? Taven's purpose was Armageddon, both in game and IRL.