Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 06:41 PM EST
chadspade

So did he kill Ermac?

Even if he did, 'Mac will just float outta the Netherrealm at some point

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 06:42 PM EST
Onaga
ProfesserAhnka
Onaga

Well color me disappointing that it's old man Shang. I'm sure he has an alt where he's young but I just don't like old man Shang continually making appearances. It's his weakest iteration. Give me his MKDA look along with his MK3 one.

Are you forgetting about Variations? I'm sure young Shang will definitely be a look of his.

I mentioned that already. I'm just disappointed that they keep going back to old Shang Tsung. I just don't like it being there at all and this time being his primary costume. It's a novelty costume at best, I'd rather they went with his more popular imposing iterations rather than the form where he was at his weakest.

Man, I just don't like old Shang.

Are you serious? Having him as Shang Tsung is the greatest thing in MK history lol

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 06:49 PM EST

He's complaining about old man Shang, not Tagawa.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 07:18 PM EST
Scorpion1813
ErmaSco

But I won't whine.. cause I pre ordered already.

And that's exactly why they lock character behind paywalls, make them pre-order bonuses, and purposely leave them out to sell separately as DLC. Because too many people are willing to throw money at them without question.

Like the people who pre-order Kombat Packs and Battle Passes before anything is revealed about them. Can't complain about them doing it when you're one of many people encouraging and paying them to do it.

To me the calculus goes like this:

I know I'm going to buy the game, and I'm going to enjoy it. I'm enough of a fan of Mortal Kombat that even though I have a very sharp critical eye regarding the media I consume, I'm not so invested in my own personal fanfiction for what the game could be that I can't appreciate the real product for what it is. So, I can reasonably predict that I will get enough enjoyment out of the game for it to be worth... some amount of cost.

Now, instead of breaking down the cost of the game between launch price and DLC add-ons, let's just think of the total amount we can expect to spend for the full experience. Then we can compare the cost with the entertainment value we expect to get out of it, and see if it's worth the price.

Let's go with the official word at the moment and say the game has 25 base characters and 6 DLC. If I spend as little as one hour playing each character, that's 31 hours of entertainment for US$100. This is not counting the story mode or any other content in the game. I'm also counting only an hour of game time with each fighter, and I could get most of that time in by just getting someone up the arcade tower to see their ending. So 31 hours is a bare-minimum estimate of the game's entertainment value.

That same $100 in movie tickets will get me closer to 16 hours of entertainment. Alternatively, it's about the same price as 5-8 decent dinners out, or 3 performances at the local concert hall. None of these options has the same level of interactive engagement, or replay value, for years to come, as my $100 investment in a game I like.

So again -- starting from the premise that I expect to enjoy the game, and anticipate many hours of entertainment playing solo or with friends -- a $100 total cost seems pretty reasonable to me. Even if I end up paying another $40 for the next Kombat Pack, it's still a bargain in total. If I'm willing to pay $10 for about 2 hours of entertainment at a theater, then getting a minimum of 20 times that value for only 14 times the cost is kind of a no-brainer. Preordering the game so that I get a bonus character for free instead of paying extra later, is also a no-brainer. I mean, I know I'm buying the game anyway.

The comparison I've made here highlights the fact that today's games tend to be waaaaay undervalued. For the amount of talent and labor that goes into development, and the long-term value we get out of it as consumers, they would be within their rights to charge $100 and up for a complete game. But that's a big scary number, and not so many people would be eager to pay it. To some extent, the DLC model has become a necessity. There are paywalls blocking you from the full content of the game because you're only paying a fraction of the product's real value when you buy the launch version.

(Note: This is entirely separate from the problem some games have with predatory microtransactions. Obviously that bullshit is bullshit. I'm only speaking in defense of DLC content and preorder bonuses.)

You might have a different opinion if you're so invested in which characters make it into the game, or in how they handle the story, or whatever, that your purchase is still undecided until you learn more. And that's fair. Or maybe you're patient or disinterested enough to wait until a Komplete Edition comes out at a discount. That's all well and good, too. But for someone like me, whose day-one purchase is certain, and who recognizes the value of the content when comparing it to more expensive forms of entertainment -- going all-in with the DLC and the preorder is far from a foolish decision. I'd only be sticking it to myself, not the developer, if I opted to pay less for the partial-content version of the game.

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 07:26 PM EST
umbrascitor
Scorpion1813
ErmaSco

But I won't whine.. cause I pre ordered already.

And that's exactly why they lock character behind paywalls, make them pre-order bonuses, and purposely leave them out to sell separately as DLC. Because too many people are willing to throw money at them without question.

Like the people who pre-order Kombat Packs and Battle Passes before anything is revealed about them. Can't complain about them doing it when you're one of many people encouraging and paying them to do it.

To me the calculus goes like this:

I know I'm going to buy the game, and I'm going to enjoy it. I'm enough of a fan of Mortal Kombat that even though I have a very sharp critical eye regarding the media I consume, I'm not so invested in my own personal fanfiction for what the game could be that I can't appreciate the real product for what it is. So, I can reasonably predict that I will get enough enjoyment out of the game for it to be worth... some amount of cost.

Now, instead of breaking down the cost of the game between launch price and DLC add-ons, let's just think of the total amount we can expect to spend for the full experience. Then we can compare the cost with the entertainment value we expect to get out of it, and see if it's worth the price.

Let's go with the official word at the moment and say the game has 25 base characters and 6 DLC. If I spend as little as one hour playing each character, that's 31 hours of entertainment for US$100. This is not counting the story mode or any other content in the game. I'm also counting only an hour of game time with each fighter, and I could get most of that time in by just getting someone up the arcade tower to see their ending. So 31 hours is a bare-minimum estimate of the game's entertainment value.

That same $100 in movie tickets will get me closer to 16 hours of entertainment. Alternatively, it's about the same price as 5-8 decent dinners out, or 3 performances at the local concert hall. None of these options has the same level of interactive engagement, or replay value, for years to come, as my $100 investment in a game I like.

So again -- starting from the premise that I expect to enjoy the game, and anticipate many hours of entertainment playing solo or with friends -- a $100 total cost seems pretty reasonable to me. Even if I end up paying another $40 for the next Kombat Pack, it's still a bargain in total. If I'm willing to pay $10 for about 2 hours of entertainment at a theater, then getting a minimum of 20 times that value for only 14 times the cost is kind of a no-brainer. Preordering the game so that I get a bonus character for free instead of paying extra later, is also a no-brainer. I mean, I know I'm buying the game anyway.

The comparison I've made here highlights the fact that today's games tend to be waaaaay undervalued. For the amount of talent and labor that goes into development, and the long-term value we get out of it as consumers, they would be within their rights to charge $100 and up for a complete game. But that's a big scary number, and not so many people would be eager to pay it. To some extent, the DLC model has become a necessity. There are paywalls blocking you from the full content of the game because you're only paying a fraction of the product's real value when you buy the launch version.

(Note: This is entirely separate from the problem some games have with predatory microtransactions. Obviously that bullshit is bullshit. I'm only speaking in defense of DLC content and preorder bonuses.)

You might have a different opinion if you're so invested in which characters make it into the game, or in how they handle the story, or whatever, that your purchase is still undecided until you learn more. And that's fair. Or maybe you're patient or disinterested enough to wait until a Komplete Edition comes out at a discount. That's all well and good, too. But for someone like me, whose day-one purchase is certain, and who recognizes the value of the content when comparing it to more expensive forms of entertainment -- going all-in with the DLC and the preorder is far from a foolish decision. I'd only be sticking it to myself, not the developer, if I opted to pay less for the partial-content version of the game.

My name is Detox and I like this message.

You work with what you got...not what you hope for.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:12 PM EST
03/22/2019 08:16 PM EST
Spider804
chadspade

So did he kill Ermac?

Even if he did, 'Mac will just float outta the Netherrealm at some point

Not really sure it can work that way for Ermac. But there are plenty of other ways to bullshit Ermac back to life if he/it(?) did indeed die.

@Spider804

You're 100% right. If i can't have Jim Cummings as Shang, Tagawa is the only other person who will ever be suitable for the role in my eyes. I just don't like old man Shang.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:19 PM EST

Shang and Noob revealed in one day there is nothing that can top that hurry up April 23 I can’t wait!!!!

i agree with what others have said the guy we get to play as in Krypt mode looks like the one from the menu card for konquer so I guess no rain then.

Also Shangs reveal sort of puts to death the Shinnok/Mileena/Shang leak! Wow what a day of reveals!!!

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:29 PM EST

This is seriously the coolest fucking thing, but I wish he was in the base game.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:37 PM EST

Old man Shang Tsung > Young Shang Tsung

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:43 PM EST
AgentK

Old man Shang Tsung > Young Shang Tsung

I prefer the middle age Shang as in MKDA

But yeah Old man Shang > Young Shang

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 08:52 PM EST

Old Tsung was my go to costume in MK9. I do hope they at least give options for Young Tsung as well.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 10:05 PM EST
Onaga
Spider804
chadspade

So did he kill Ermac?

Even if he did, 'Mac will just float outta the Netherrealm at some point

Not really sure it can work that way for Ermac. But there are plenty of other ways to bullshit Ermac back to life if he/it(?) did indeed die.

@Spider804

You're 100% right. If i can't have Jim Cummings as Shang, Tagawa is the only other person who will ever be suitable for the role in my eyes. I just don't like old man Shang.

I have mixed feelings about old man Tsung. The inspiration for his character came largely from Lo Pan in Big Trouble in Little China (and a little Han from Enter the Dragon).

This said, he's a weak af boss in MK1. Seriously, he sucks. Pick anybody, he glides backwards, and will morph... no problem. MK9, that's a different story, he's the toughest damn guy in the ladder.

For me, Cary is the ultimate Shang Tsung. When I was a kid I was obsessed with MK and particularly that movie. I am so happy Cary is reprising his role, his voice brings back memories. Man I can quote his Tsung from the movie all day. My favorite: "And now for a taste of things to come."

But yeah I'm satisfied enough with the look of Tsung here in 11. It's a compromise, I'd say. It's Cary-esque, but it's old. I was thinking just have him look like Cary did (leather trenchcoat, pants, clean shaven).

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 10:28 PM EST

Save your pity for the weak!

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 10:35 PM EST
ballerj91

But yeah I'm satisfied enough with the look of Tsung here in 11. It's a compromise, I'd say. It's Cary-esque, but it's old. I was thinking just have him look like Cary did (leather trenchcoat, pants, clean shaven).

Look at Cary's most recent pictures, though. Shang Tsung himself is pretty old now.

... I'm getting old now.

....

Oh God....

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 10:39 PM EST

Well we can't all maintain youth by stealing souls like Shang Tsung

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 10:57 PM EST
umbrascitor
ballerj91

But yeah I'm satisfied enough with the look of Tsung here in 11. It's a compromise, I'd say. It's Cary-esque, but it's old. I was thinking just have him look like Cary did (leather trenchcoat, pants, clean shaven).

Look at Cary's most recent pictures, though. Shang Tsung himself is pretty old now.

... I'm getting old now.

....

Oh God....

Man time flys (spelling idk I'm idiotic) when you're having fun.

Of all the characters I have seen thus far, this Shang Tsung impresses me the most. His face, his voice, his mannerisms. So far my picks to play as are Tsung, Cage, and Skarlett.

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RE: Shang Tsung Tagawa is DLC and Krypt (pic inside)
03/22/2019 11:08 PM EST

Rapid fire thoughts...

  • Don't get me wrong, I understand where the idea of bitching about DLC is coming from... but like... a decade into the concept, I'm kinda over bitching about it. It exists. We all know it's going to continue existing before a game is even released. So why are we acting like this is a new thing to get upset about?
  • That said, BOY AM I JUST HAPPY THE REVEAL WASN'T A GUEST CHARACTER! :D Being that it was a comic book convention, I was all good and braced to be disappointed by a Spawn reveal. I know it's too much to hope for, but I'd be over the moon if we didn't see a single one.
  • I'm... extremely interested to learn more about his backstory/role in this game... if any... whatever major or minor extent it might entail. Does he appear in Story mode? Is he involved in the plot? Is the Krypt canon? Does this new Not Rain character have a canon role to play? Why is he old again? Does The Krypt take place after MK11 or before it? Is he still dead? Is this actually him hosting the krypy? Is the Shang hosting the Krypt for us his ethereal answering machine? Even assuming ALL of the above is non-canon and irrelevent... as a DLC character, he should have a bio and an arcade ending... and those should give him at least a little bit of story as it pertains to MK11. I'm dying to know A) Why he's alive again, and B) Why he's old again.
  • So the natural question many are now asking is: Does his being DLC invalidate the rumor that He, Mileena & Shinnok were secret characters? ... I honestly don't know, but I was always tempering my expectations for those 3 to begin with. Perhaps they were always planned to be DLC, and the leaker just got some wires crossed in his info? Perhaps Mileena still could be a secret character? Perhaps he was supposed to be a secret character, but development is behind, so he got pushed back to DLC (I mean they're CLEARLY already developing him to some extent, and his model and voice-acting will be at least partially on disc)... who knows. I'm still hopeful for Mileena (be it on disc or DLC, don't care)... but... still tempering my expectations.
  • One thing that concerns me is - In the prior two games (at least the initial console releases) the DLC characters had no alternate costumes... and I think we can all agree we'd like at least 1 young skin. I'd personally like a young "game" skin (goatee, ponytail) and a young "movie" skin (Basically just... MK Movie Shang)... but 3 skins for a DLC character? Is that too optimistic? (All that said, I'm sure he'll have a smattering of customizable gear, at the very least. If not full on alternate skins. *Shrug* We'll see I guess)

Anyway... yeah, feel free to bitch about DLC if you'd like, but I'm stoked. We got 2 canon character reveals today, and I was expecting 1 at best, and one was a here-to-fore mostly unseen (but spoiled) character, the other was damn near a complete surprise (Rumors aside, we were all a little iffy about Shang.)

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 01:14 AM EST
Spider804

Well we can't all maintain youth by stealing souls like Shang Tsung

Says you! *stands over dog trying desperately*

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 02:16 AM EST

Just as I was about to give up on the game after boring Jacqui they bring my fave character in and Cary too!!! They better give him a good Soul Steal brutality !!

'Your soul is MINE!' *everything crossed for Reiko*
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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 04:54 AM EST

At first... I am really happy to see Shang back in MK11 even as DLC but I just don't dig his look. He looks way to friendly for an evil Kharacter. No, this is not Shang I would prefer to look like. I hope we see the evil side of him once again.

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 05:36 AM EST

I'm agreeing 100% with umbrascitor.
If you expect them to make a game catered 100% to you, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. NRS has to cater to a lot of different people and they are in the best spot to see what is requested and how much. Not liking a game just because there are some characters you don't like and scream bloody murder is ridiculous.
Umbrascitor already did the financial calculation. Even if you play just half the roster, the pricetag is still waranted (and given I rather would love to pay less too). Seeing also as Mortal Kombat is one of the only fighting game franchises that gives so much content, it's even harder to believe people complain that much. They have something for everyone. And since I'm more of a single player person, I do like that there is so much to do for me in the game.

Currently Shang Tsung looks like Tagawa fitted in the Shang Tsung character from MK9. I hope there will be skins available from his movie version AND from MK1 "Lo Pan" design, something more "scary".
If Shang Tsung wouldn't have looked the way he looked in MK9, I probably would have found this MK11 style weird.
Hoping also for his Soul Steal fatality (without the "pudding"). He has to say "Your soul is mine!!" pick up the character and while stealing the soul, degrading the body looking the way Goro looks in his current state. Drops the body and falling in front of the camera, but Shang Tsung in view, who transforms briefly in the opponent which soul he just took. But have the transform go in "layers", for example going from bottom to top.

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 06:17 AM EST
03/23/2019 06:19 AM EST

The only way to rationalize DLC is that the developers put x amount of time into the base game that costs the employees salaries essentially. the producers usually budget a two year window for development. If you go over that, heads usually start to roll.

anything outside of that two year budgeted time is extra cost.... so they pass it along to us as DLC (extra cost)

... see it’s not so big and scary when you break it down. It’s just the real world friends.

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 06:22 AM EST
Gillbob316

Rapid fire thoughts...

  • Don't get me wrong, I understand where the idea of bitching about DLC is coming from... but like... a decade into the concept, I'm kinda over bitching about it. It exists. We all know it's going to continue existing before a game is even released. So why are we acting like this is a new thing to get upset about?
  • That said, BOY AM I JUST HAPPY THE REVEAL WASN'T A GUEST CHARACTER! :D Being that it was a comic book convention, I was all good and braced to be disappointed by a Spawn reveal. I know it's too much to hope for, but I'd be over the moon if we didn't see a single one.
  • I'm... extremely interested to learn more about his backstory/role in this game... if any... whatever major or minor extent it might entail. Does he appear in Story mode? Is he involved in the plot? Is the Krypt canon? Does this new Not Rain character have a canon role to play? Why is he old again? Does The Krypt take place after MK11 or before it? Is he still dead? Is this actually him hosting the krypy? Is the Shang hosting the Krypt for us his ethereal answering machine? Even assuming ALL of the above is non-canon and irrelevent... as a DLC character, he should have a bio and an arcade ending... and those should give him at least a little bit of story as it pertains to MK11. I'm dying to know A) Why he's alive again, and B) Why he's old again.
  • So the natural question many are now asking is: Does his being DLC invalidate the rumor that He, Mileena & Shinnok were secret characters? ... I honestly don't know, but I was always tempering my expectations for those 3 to begin with. Perhaps they were always planned to be DLC, and the leaker just got some wires crossed in his info? Perhaps Mileena still could be a secret character? Perhaps he was supposed to be a secret character, but development is behind, so he got pushed back to DLC (I mean they're CLEARLY already developing him to some extent, and his model and voice-acting will be at least partially on disc)... who knows. I'm still hopeful for Mileena (be it on disc or DLC, don't care)... but... still tempering my expectations.
  • One thing that concerns me is - In the prior two games (at least the initial console releases) the DLC characters had no alternate costumes... and I think we can all agree we'd like at least 1 young skin. I'd personally like a young "game" skin (goatee, ponytail) and a young "movie" skin (Basically just... MK Movie Shang)... but 3 skins for a DLC character? Is that too optimistic? (All that said, I'm sure he'll have a smattering of customizable gear, at the very least. If not full on alternate skins. *Shrug* We'll see I guess)

Anyway... yeah, feel free to bitch about DLC if you'd like, but I'm stoked. We got 2 canon character reveals today, and I was expecting 1 at best, and one was a here-to-fore mostly unseen (but spoiled) character, the other was damn near a complete surprise (Rumors aside, we were all a little iffy about Shang.)

Great thoughts

I think he has a role in the game and I think the krypt will play a bigger role in the story or at least has it's own mini story. I think having Shang to narrate the Krypt is a lot more interesting than have him just getting beaten in a story that already has tons of major players. My hope is that the Krypt has a very interesting story and if it involves around Shang then I am sure I'll enjoy it probably much more than the story mode.

I hope he gets different skins... They have done tons and I think they would do it this time but we will see.

Finally, I hope Mileena gets a main roster spot somehow , secret/ unlockable and if not she appears as DLC because honestly she is tons more interesting than D'Vorah's and the Kombat kids.

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 06:22 AM EST

Also... to get out in front of the inevitable “ya! But they are working on it now!?!! That’s BS the model is in the game!!? Rabble rabble rabble”

they devote a team andx # of hours for DLC development. This is a budgeted cost outside of the base game cost. It accelerates the time to receive new content but is not part of the base 2 year budget...

see? Still EXTRA content!!

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RE: Shang Tsung Mortal Kombat 11 Character Render
03/23/2019 09:26 AM EST

Nostalgia hits hard here :D