John Vogel needs to come back.

From what I gathered with my interactions with the dude a couple years ago, he seems happy to no longer be penning the MK mythos.

And honestly with all the damage that has been done what is really left to come back to? For both long time fans and Vogel.

True.

Just a reminder,

You guys hated this guy too much back when he was doing the story.

Now, tons of things are wrong about the new MK story but the characters have never had this LIFE infused in them. What they need to do is respect the background a lot of things in MK have spawned from. Like Raiden is weak in Netherrealm and Outworld. Like you can't get to Netherrealm unless youre dead and evil. Also, try to stay away from Injustice as much as you can.

I enjoyed the MK11 story and then did well with the characters but they need to slow down and focus on the enriching the backstory of the realms and what not.

Also, Shang Tsung is a valuable character... Learn how to handle him in the story rather than writing him off and bringing in half assed stuff like cetrion and geras.

I've personally always favored Vogel. The only thing of his I never approved of was his refusal to better develop Hsu Hao.

Even with his flaws, he understood the importance of lore, and that is something I cherish.

Again, I have been here during the daysOf MKDA-MKA. Those game released during my intermediate School to college and I spent tons of time online and I can tell you, people hated Vogel. I loved the 3D games lore and especially the realms...Vogel added life to MKDA arenas and I swear whenever I play MKDA I just stare at how beautiful the arenas are and just think of the lore written for them.

New MK matured in many directions, Scorp and Sub work together, Cage matured, Raiden is flawed, Jade loves Kotal, Baraka shows pragmatism.. Liu Kang is finally relevant

Now you have the Kombat kids, you have earthrealmers strike Netherrealm ( aka weakest thing Dom has ever done), but that's fine. All the comics and games this long have had things that go against the pillars established in their lores.

Best thing yet, the table is wiped clean for whatever comes next, Raiden is mortal ( I know he will be back next game the usual way we know him but still) and I really can't wait to see where we go next.

People hated Vogel?

Well, it technically is a clean slate now. That's a pretty good reason.

I'm sorry, I what now? The only times I ever had issues with Vogel was with MK9 and I feel justified there with how nonsensical that story was and how poorly the characters were handled. Before that I couldn't praise the guy enough. It wasn't his fault that Armageddon was a total shit show that, didn't even have a story outside of Konquest mode. That's all on Midway.

But I certainly wasn't raising a torch and pitchfork against the guy during the post launch period of MK9 like some.

I guess but again what's left to come back to? I find with these streamlined retcons to the universe of MK, it's a whole lot less interesting now.

It's not nearly as complex of intriguing as Tobias and Vogel once made it.

Damn it.

I'm sure I've been guilty of slamming Vogel back in the day; even during his era there were numerous inconsistencies and plotholes. I wasn't a fan of how he retconned Goro's death, and I still think it cheapened his death in MKDA in perspective. Compared to the reboot trilogy though, Vogel did a much better job holding the lore together. He expanded the scope of MK's world in a massive way, adding new realms which are now cemented in the lore. For the most part, he took a lot of characters in interesting directions. Raiden becoming ruthless, Zombie Liu Kang, Sindel and Ermac fighting on the side of good, Bi-Han becoming Noob Saibot, Kitana forming an alliance with Goro and the Shokans, etc.

Deception and Deadly Alliance told some fantastic stories. Armageddon not so much, but it was a rushed game to be fair. Vogel did fuck up with MK9, which is unfortunate. The MK1 portion of the story should have been largely faithful to the original. Why the fuck was Nightwolf there?!

My main issue with the reboot trilogy is that it can't seem to keep track of its own details. MK11, for example, tells us that Kung Jin is Lao's nephew, not his cousin. It's a minor detail, sure, but little things like that just demonstrate an overall lack of research into their own series. I do have to give some praise to some of the new characters introduced in MKX. Erron Black and D'vorah are really well designed, Kotal Kahn is an interesting character who would fit right in with MK2, Kung Jin is an LGBT rep done right, and I like Cassie and Takeda personally. Kollector is far and away the best new character in MK11, and I wouldn't mind him sticking around. Other than that, for me the reboot trilogy is largely hit or miss, whereas the PS2 era had more hits with a few misses.

To be fair to Vogel, I have a feeling that was out of his control. Ed and the team wanted Goro and Shao Kahn back and that was all there was to it and John had to scrounge up a reason for him to be back. I don't like how he had Goro revert to being a subservient villain after he progressed so much through MK4 and Deadly Alliance but it is what it is.

I mean if Goro and Shao Kahn had been planned from the get go of Deception, they would have used their updated Deception appearances during the intros to the Character Cards.

What I don't get though is why they have been so adamant about keeping Goro in a villain role when they showed he wasn't doing so out of his own free will.

Yeah, that was another major issue with the storytelling.

My favorite moment in the series is Kung Lao's ending in MKGold. It showed both Kitana and Goro in an amazing light. It showed Kitana as a just ruler moving for peace rather than war, and it showed Goro as an honorable warrior who understands the pain of loss and sacrifice.

I personally do not recognize Goro's return in Deception/Unchained as canon, especially given it shows him killing Kitana. It makes no sense for him to die fighting at her side, the abruptly return and turn against her without the slightest explanation.

Even with that inconsistency, though, I still prefer Vogel over the current state. Between MK9, MKX, and MK11, it really appears as though they hired a different writer for every game.

I completely agree, and I can see how Vogel was backed into a corner in that aspect. It just doesn't make sense why, if they had to bring him back, they had to make him a villain again. Shao Kahn's retcon I can accept, even if it was a bit bullshitty.

One thing that MK11 shows us is that there is no reboot. EVER.

MK11 is explicit saying that Kronika (and now Liu Kang, or whoever is the keeper of time) keeps resetting over and over the timeline.

In a way, this is a reboot. But MK lorewise it's the same universe going back and forth, and everything that has happened before did happen, even MK vs DC. You see, when MK9 was out, I think the vast majority of people thought that Raiden sent a message for himself during Armageddon. I did too. But MK11 is explicit that Kronika created and destroyed countless timelines, Raiden actually had a vision of one of them that would basically interfere in the new one.

That's why Quan Chi participates in Sindel's resurrection. That's why Mileena's backstory was different. That's why Taven haven't won. It wasn't just Cyber Sub-Zero, the things Raiden never changed were there as original, because MK9 is neither a reboot or the same story, but the same universe replayed with different details made by Kronika. They were pretty smart by doing this.

Your question is great, and while I believe Liu Kang and Kitana will start a new trilogy, playing the game and seeing the intros like the fire god ending never happened, it's pretty cool. I mean, Kitana as Kahn, Raiden facing his demons, Cetrion betraying the Elder Gods. The only thing I'm ok for a new timeline is that I sincerely don't like Raiden as a mortal. He's a god, and he must forever be a god, even if he's not protector.

But you know what's funny? I think MK12 can have regular Liu Kang and Kitana, since the One Being will probably produce them again, and still have them as immortals, cause they are from another timeline. I think they will become living paradoxes. And I do hope my boy Liu Kang allows Raiden to be a god again. He literally stole his thunder lol

Having the clock wound back to 0 and erasing a previous timeline to start anew sounds like a reboot to me.

All that just seems like a lazy out for them to not have to be held accountable for any inconsistencies in the present and future. It pretty much renders everything we have been following since day one pointless.

Anyone remember back before MKX came out Vogel shut down the idea of a multiverse in MK? Back then that really irked me but seeing what a mess this is now, I wish that had held true.

Also what happens to Kronica now? Does she not come back when the clock is wound back by Liu? How does any of this circumvent Armgaeddon? That is still a problem, no amount of time travel shenanigans has remedied the little issue of an overabundance of super powered beings tearing the realms apart by the seems.

Where were any of the other elder gods to appose Kronica's meddling with things. Why was only one involved in this whole ordeal? Why is it Shinnok had to cast away his elder god status and create the amulet containing his elder godly power in order to try and take Earthrealm; and yet Cetrion can just do this without having to sacrifice anything?

Was Raiden just a mortal who the elder gods handed godly power to? Is that how the gods work now? Oh sorry "demigods".

I'm sorry I know I'm giving Mortal Kombat way more thought than it's worth these days.

Also sorry YellowLedbetter most of that had nothing to do with you. It's just a whole "Why" rant that has been building.

I believe Kronika, Titans and the Elder Gods exist outside the parameters of time. Otherwise there would be a massive clusterfuck of multiple Elder Gods' younger/older selves, something the writers would not be able to reasonably reconcile with. I could buy there being past, present, and future versions of demigods, like Raiden and Fujin, but even that isn't possible according to MK11's story. So Kronika is likely gone for good, as are the Elder Gods as we know them.

I agree with you on the Elder Gods doing nothing about Kronika's actions. Normally, they are content to sit on their lazy asses while the inhabitants of the realms sort out their own problems, but an event that threatens every realm (and would indirectly risk resurrecting the One Being) should be enough to galvanize them into action. Cetrion is one of the most baffling characters in the story. You'd think an Elder Goddess of life and virtue would be wise enough to see that Kronika's vision of balancing the realms by pitting her against Shinnok is complete and total bullshit. It would lead to needless carnage and death, something Cetrion should be diametrically opposed to. Instead she's a mommy's girl because...yeah, I got nothing.

I've spent more time than I should imagining how MK11's story could be better. And its not a terrible story by any means (better than MKX's for sure), but it has some pretty big flaws. In my opinion, the game should have had Cetrion as one of the good characters, trying to stop Kronika's scheme and wrest control of the hourglass from her, while Dark Raiden wants to kill Kronika and destroy the hourglass, which would also pit Cetrion and Dark Raiden against one another. Perhaps Cetrion was once a mentor and guide to Raiden when he was a mere mortal, before becoming the God of Thunder, which makes her involvement more personal. Cetrion knows that Kronika's vision threatens the stability of all the realms, and pleads with her fellow Elder Gods to take action. When they don't, she relinquishes her status as Elder God to aid Earthrealm against Kronika, while also contending with Dark Raiden, who has become fed up with Earthrealm's fighters and seeks to build a powerful army of his own so he can kill Kronika, destroy the hourglass, and rule Earthrealm with an iron fist.

I know I'm getting carried away with my fanfiction here, but MK11's story had so much potential to be amazing, I'm just salty that they did away with Dark Raiden so early on in the story, when i've been wanting him to be explored more in depth since Deception.