It could happen. Would make the character a little easier to follow. Kinda hope he gets scarred by Scorpion, but doesn't get killed by him. He's just not Sub-Zero without the badass eye scar.

But I agree, I don't really think they EVER mentioned Sub-Zero being evil until he was killed and became a spectre, so it's not impossible for him to become a hero. I personally wouldn't mind if in the new series they hung up the mantle of Noob Saibot, but that's just me.

What I don't understand is didn't Quan Chi kill Scorpion and his family? If that's the case then Scorpion killed the bad Sub-zero for no good reason.

Well, Noob can't make Sub-Zero a wraith, since they're both the same person, but yes, Sub-Zero as he stands in MKM isn't as evil as the fans tend to depict him. As I've said in other threads, if you have to ASK someone if you're evil or not, how evil could you really be?

His soul was tainted because he lived the life of an assassin, but I've always figured that the events of the MK1 tournament escalated that evil. No proof of that; just a theory.

Um, Quan Chi told Scorpion that Sub-Zero was the one responsible for his family's death.

Quan-Chi tricked Scorpion into thinking Sub-Zero killed his family...

It's very confusing though. I was thinking of this the other day and in MK4 Scorpion blames the YOUNGER one for his and his family's murder. I think the MK team lost track of their own characters (or whoever was writing the dialogue for the endings lol)

But have you ever read the MK Malibu comics? The older Sub-Zero survives MK1, joins the heroes in Outworld, even going into MK2 events, and is killed by Scorpion at the very end of the series...

As far as the games go, the older Sub-Zero was never accused of murdering Scorp's clan and family. That didn't even occur until after MK3 (EDIT: or so I thought; will have to double-check the timing of that. Second EDIT: Reviewed the MKM cut scenes, and Xiahou got it right).

The reason Scorpion killed Sub-Zero in MK1 is solely because Sub-Zero killed him when they were both on Quan Chi's map mission.

To call the elder Sub-Zero the "evil" one is a simplification. But he was by no means a good person. One of the points in Mythologies was he had the choice to change his ways, but he didn't. As a result, when he died, he was damned to the Netherealm where he became fully corrupted and turned into Noob Saibot.

His assignment to kill Shang Tsung was not something he was doing altruistically or for the betterment of mankind. It was a job. He could've have just as easily been hired to assassinate Liu Kang.



The elder Sub-Zero killed Scorpion while stealing the Map of the Elements. Quan Chi killed the Shirai Ryu and all their families as payment for stealing the Map. He then deceived Scorpion into believing the Lin Kuei did it.

Older Sub-Zero, as stated by Quan Chi and Raiden, is "tainted" with evil. He is not evil at the outset, nor is he good. He's rather neutral. As the story progressed, however, he did become further tainted and corrupted and become an evil creature.

Noob Saibot in Deception is enslaved and controlled by no one. He is, literally, his own person, free to forge his own path... and he chooses a very dark path. He even mentions that in the past he would have felt pride at how powerful his brother, the current Sub-Zero, had become, but he's not the same person that he was from back then.

So, in the past, Sub-Zero was a neutral assassin, capable of good and evil of equal measure. In the present, he's totally evil, though even his brother says that he hopes to save his brother's soul, even if it's a futile effort.

but the fact that Raiden said that you couldn't even go to the Netherrealm unless were evil...

Well I'm sure he's not the nicest guy, he kills people for a living. But he's not dead yet, so he could still turn it around in this iteration of the history.

It's been a while so if I get anything wrong I apologize. If I remember correctly, Sub-Zero was chosen for the quest in Mythologies mainly because he was ambiguous. He had the potential for good and the potential for bad. There was always some sort of darkness to his soul. Only those with some darkness in their souls can traverse the Netherealm and this is revealed to Sub-Zero later in Mythologies. Quan Chi and Shinnok were banking on his evil part (plus they didn't reveal their true intentions to him or the Lin Kuei grandmaster) and Raiden was banking on his good part to fix his mistake in helping Quan Chi acquire the amulet for Shinnok.

I believe Sub-Zero beat and killed Scorpion one on one in a fair fight. Scorpion becomes pissed because he's lead to believe Sub-Zero then went and killed his wife and kid(s) which was really done by Quan Chi who had also wiped out Scorpions clan at the request (as payment I think) of the Lin Kuei grandmaster.

I guess murdering monks and killing Gods must have had something to do with the whole tainting thing.

Elder Sub-Zero killed Scorpion. (While Scorpion was explicitly begging for mercy. Pretty heartless and evil.)

Quan Chi killed the Shirai Ryu.

In MK4, Quan Chi told Scorpion that the Younger Sub is the one who killed the Shirai Ryu in order to get Scorpion to fight on his side and take Sub out of the picture, because he always considered the Sub-Zero brothers the most likely to thwart their plans, because the Elder Sub had done it before, and told his brother all the stories about his adventures in Mythologies before he died, so Young Sub knew how to beat them too.

As far as Noob Saibot goes, when he became Noob, his personality changed. He no longer cares about any of the things he cared about when he was alive. So he is much more evil than when he was alive...but he was still pretty evil when he was alive or he wouldn't have been able to travel to the Netherealm, or have gone there when he died.

Quan Chi and Raiden both warned him about that tainted soul, "you're gonna go to hell when you die" thing, and he still returned to the Lin Kuei and kept doing what he does.

It IS interesting to note, however, that according to his MK1 ending, Sub-Zero's plan if he had successfully assassinated Shang and collected the fee, was to retire. So maybe he was keeping Raiden's warning in mind and planning to get out of the killing business.

This is Kind of kind of on the same topic, its regarding scorpion.
I heard his chracter was kind of based on the whole casper theory (you know you come back as a ghost because you have unfinished buisness) I know scorpion was an assasin like sub, but do we ever hear about his life befor in detail and if he was infact evil.

Was scorpion one mean sob or was it just interesting to make him a spectre, or like was it the only means of doing so (think spawn I gesse). What im getting at is how evil do u have to be (is there a scale ... must be this evil to ride) cause from what i gathred he was an assasin but loved his family, I mean really anyone from mk could go to netherreal they have all killed people. Sure they kill bad people but cmon Lui Kang is noooo Ghandi

Scorpion's backstory was given in Mythologies.

"Scorpion is the code name for a modern day member of the Shirai Ryu named Hanzo Hasashi. Scorpion has mastered a technique known as shuriken- weapons thrown from the hand. He learned this technique from his own father, a ninja himself who forbade his son to become a member of this ancient group of assassins and wanted him to accept the trappings of modern day life. But the lure of quick money and his own wish to afford his wife and child the finest in life force him to join the Shirai Ryu."

Other events and games established that Scorpion, despite being a killer-for-hire, has a strong sense of "honor" and the main reason he was so pissed at Sub for killing him (besides thinking he'd offed his family too) was a combination of being disgusted at Sub for killing a man who had surrendered, and disgust at himself for begging for mercy. Scorpion seems to believe the reason he went to hell when he died had more to do with "dying dishonorably" than being a sinner.

He certainly doesn't think of himself as evil, and has on at least two or three different occasions, sided with good or tried to do something to atone for his sins since becoming a spectre.

Shit he thinks he went to hell for dieing like a puss ( in his opinion) dint know about his pops what a cool family biz (even tho he wanted him out of it)

Thanx alot for the info man

Hey just wondering where does the info about killing him without mercy come from. I remeber in mytholegies you just kill him (i gesse they didnt want to portray the protagonist of the game as such a dick lol)

You know, I was never under the impression that the “First" Sub-Zero was evil.
He just never saw killing as that big of a deal, it was just as common and easy to him as breathing. Sure he was much more hardened a person then his brother but still, not evil, just an ideal assassin.
The only reason he became Noob Saibot is because of his occupation as a killer it tainted him as we all know your assured way into hell is man slaughter.
So a Stern and cold character, yes. Evil, no.

I don't know how well you remember that boss fight, but at the "Finish Him" point, Scorpion drops to his knees and says something like "Please, spare me!"

Yeah, that wasn't just a meaningless animation, it was for the story.

There were actually 3 Sub-Zeros.
Moe Larry and Curly
they had wacky adventures.

Good thread. I've always seen elder sub as being a remorseless killer, but not necessarily evil. Still, if it's good enough in the Elder gods' books...

Also Hydro.

You don't see remorseless killers as evil?