the return of shang tsungs morph!
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posted07/06/2010 04:07 AM (UTC)by
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Oni Lord Asmodeus
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02/19/2003 09:41 PM (UTC)
Do you think we'll get a return to form for shang tsung? I've been waiting for years to get a shang tsung like the one from mk2 and 3. Think we could see the morph come back?
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MINION
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06/21/2010 10:25 AM (UTC)
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With this game not being in full 3d. I don't see why not. The load times might still be a bit Ickers to work with. But pretty sure it could work.
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Nephrite
06/21/2010 10:28 AM (UTC)
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I hope not. I never liked that...

When something is called a special move, I guess it should be special, meaning that it should make a certain character who possesses that move special because of it. For example: Sub-Zero is special because only he can freeze people in MK, that's what makes him special. So, when Shang Tsung does the same thing, it makes Sub-Zero less special, less unique. That's why I don't like Shang's morphing ability. That's one of the reasons I don't like Shang Tsung...
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Spike81
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06/21/2010 10:32 AM (UTC)
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I would love to see them back but I don’t think they will be. The characters are still modelled in 3D and with a roster of 26 characters the load times would still take too long I think. Besides Shang Tsung has really evolved as a own character over the years. So by giving him back his morphing and keeping his own specials would really make him over powered.
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FlamingTP
06/21/2010 10:33 AM (UTC)
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Nephrite Wrote:
I hope not. I never liked that...

When something is called a special move, I guess it should be special, meaning that it should make a certain character who possesses that move special because of it. For example: Sub-Zero is special because only he can freeze people in MK, that's what makes him special. So, when Shang Tsung does the same thing, it makes Sub-Zero less special, less unique. That's why I don't like Shang's morphing ability. That's one of the reasons I don't like Shang Tsung...
I want to say yes but you bring up a fantastic point. it still makes me a bit sad though since I never had a problem with it back in MK2/3
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Veryll
06/21/2010 11:36 AM (UTC)
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From a gameplay standpoint, i don't want to se them come back. I agree with the special move makes someone special part already stated in this post.

From a technical standpoint, it is most likely not possible, not without loadtimes, and i would hate to see that. The problem is that consoles have a limited amount of memory, and i would think that this is already used by stage and 2 characters, and they can't fit in 24 more characters.
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Kinetic
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06/21/2010 01:57 PM (UTC)
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There could always be a compromise: maybe a single transform move, that transforms Shang Tsung into his opponent. That would limit his power somewhat, by only allowing him to turn into one other individual, and it might get rid of the load times, since that character is already rendered on screen.
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kingjolly
06/21/2010 02:11 PM (UTC)
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MINION Wrote:
With this game not being in full 3d. I don't see why not. The load times might still be a bit Ickers to work with. But pretty sure it could work.


The presentation is still in 3d. The gameplay just works in a 2d plane. They'd still be running with Shang's morphs problem like the other 3d mk's.
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hwoarong
06/21/2010 02:25 PM (UTC)
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I would like to see them come back...... but I'm pretty sure that it won't. The problem with "the morph" is that the game has to load the data for the character you morph into and this process takes a few seconds to do because it has to stream the data from the cd. Alot of people think that because the systems are more powerful that they should be able to do this now... if fact it works the other way. Now that we have so much detail in each character (sounds, animations, textures) each character on todays system takes up as much physical memory as the entire MK2 cartridge for the genesis. In order to get it to work they would have to load every character in the game into the systems RAM, and neither system has enough ram. A hard drive install could help, but it's still not fast enough for smooth uniterupted gameplay.

A possibility though would be in boss form they could pull this off, as long as the cpu is playing him they could buffer the character he is changing into ahead of time so the morph would go smoothly, but you would still run in to problems with making it an effective move..... he would end up morphing just to morph.

No matter how shang tsung comes back i will be happy, i liked the old and the new, particularly the Shang from MKvsDC
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CKnight
06/21/2010 04:10 PM (UTC)
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It'd be cool and maybe he could just morph into the original cast from MK1 or instead of morphing and fighting as them he does a quick morph and does one of their moves.
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Kamionero
06/21/2010 04:31 PM (UTC)
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I would LOVE to see the morph back. It was a really cool feature and it made Tsung one of the characters w the deepest gameplay.

I would even conform to a move steal, like Kirby or Rogue in X-men vs SF. He could do it after the soul steal, so since he can only copy a max of 2 different moves it wouldnt lag the game.
I think Shang has been gimped as a character and thats a shame.
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Poto2222
06/21/2010 04:38 PM (UTC)
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Actually, I really think that the morphs CAN work out in this game, since this time we can get 4 characters on the screen at the same time (Tag-Team).

Said that, I must remind you guys something:
Mortal Kombat Trilogy on PSone.

Shang Tsung's morphs caused the game to freeze for like 8 seconds. BUT, you could get rid this loadtimes, making the morphs limited. You could turn this on on the Options Screen, and switch "Shang Tsung's Morphs" from "Everyone" to "limited".
I think you could select 3 characters to morph in with that option.

So, since we can have 4 characters at the screen, why couldn't we morph into 2 character of our choose plus the enemy???
Of course, I don't know how the hell it could work in Tag-Team Battles. I mean, 4 characters in the screen plus 2 others?
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krac_poe
06/21/2010 06:35 PM (UTC)
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I like the idea of Shang having special moves where he turns into a character just for their special moves. For instance, he morphs into sub-zero the does an ice ball, then morphs back, all in one single, pre-determined animation. I think it could work and would be interesting to see.
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Oni Lord Asmodeus
06/21/2010 07:06 PM (UTC)
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See, I know the morphs would create a problem because of the load time thing, but like the above post stated, with a little forethought it could work. Choosing from a pool of like 6 characters or something would be real cool and would put shang back where he used to be on the MK totem pole.

About the character identity thing, I understand what you mean but shang's staple use to be 'I'll take what you have and throw it back at you!' I miss that about him. Shang was the funnest charater in my stable and when MK went 3d he was seriously knocked down.

I don't know how likely it would be but shang back to his standard would be a highlight for me.
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Poto2222
06/22/2010 02:18 PM (UTC)
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asmodeus Wrote:
See, I know the morphs would create a problem because of the load time thing, but like the above post stated, with a little forethought it could work. Choosing from a pool of like 6 characters or something would be real cool and would put shang back where he used to be on the MK totem pole.

About the character identity thing, I understand what you mean but shang's staple use to be 'I'll take what you have and throw it back at you!' I miss that about him. Shang was the funnest charater in my stable and when MK went 3d he was seriously knocked down.


6 characters? I think with this the loadtime before the fight would be like 30 seconds! o_O
But it would be AWESOME! tongue
And I also really miss the awesomeness of Tsung's morphs. I mean, that's his identity! And that's not the only thing he can do. He also has his "normal" Special Moves (which also was his only moves in the past games), which does their job very well. But the lack of his original ability is such a shame... sad
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robs727
06/22/2010 11:48 PM (UTC)
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Veryll Wrote:
From a technical standpoint, it is most likely not possible, not without loadtimes, and i would hate to see that. The problem is that consoles have a limited amount of memory, and i would think that this is already used by stage and 2 characters, and they can't fit in 24 more characters.


That pretty much would be the problem, which means the best they could do would be give you the option of your opponents meaning up to 3 others due to the fact of tag team has 4 loaded.

krac_poe Wrote:
I like the idea of Shang having special moves where he turns into a character just for their special moves. For instance, he morphs into sub-zero the does an ice ball, then morphs back, all in one single, pre-determined animation. I think it could work and would be interesting to see.


Interesting idea, although the problem is still that Tsungs data file will need to contain the texture, model and special/s data for every character, which would blow out the size of his data set. About the most you would see would be him able to use other characters moves.
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Nightcrow
06/23/2010 01:38 AM (UTC)
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Kinetic Wrote:
There could always be a compromise: maybe a single transform move, that transforms Shang Tsung into his opponent. That would limit his power somewhat, by only allowing him to turn into one other individual, and it might get rid of the load times, since that character is already rendered on screen.


Kinetic actually made a very good point here. It can be a solution to the load time problem, making one of Shang Tsung's special moves to morph into the shape of his opponent. This would bring back some of the really cool mistycism and sorcery themes that are foerever embbeded in Shang Tsung's character, while restricting the technical difficulties to the minimum.
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Oni Lord Asmodeus
06/23/2010 02:03 AM (UTC)
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This would suck, it really would, but what if they pulled a shinnok and he just shifted move sets and animations? How would you feel then?
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mkraiden
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06/23/2010 05:49 AM (UTC)
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asmodeus Wrote:
This would suck, it really would, but what if they pulled a shinnok and he just shifted move sets and animations? How would you feel then?


I would rather have no morphs than have that. I didn't like that about shinnok in MK4. I would rather they do it all or nothing, or possibly have a limited amount of morphs... but just the moves... i'll pass.
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Hattoris
07/01/2010 04:39 AM (UTC)
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You know, I thought about the loading issues, until I remembered one thing... Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks. Remember in the final battle sequences? Shang Tsung would morph into Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, and Reptile. This was also the first non-2D MK game (albeit not a regular one on one fighter) to have Shang Tsung morphing. However, it WAS only three characters, but from a technical standpoint, it seems possible.

I could care either way, as I haven't really used Shang Tsung too often. I just remember MK:SM, and the way they finally managed to make him morph in 3D rather than just blended sprites. Now, as to whether or not this'll be applied to the next game, eh, dunno. But if they could pulls this off on PS2/Xbox with SM, then PS3 and 360 shouldn't be a problem.
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RazorsEdge701
07/01/2010 04:56 AM (UTC)
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Sometimes my copy of Shaolin Monks freezes up for a second when Shang is morphing. Hell, I think I've seen MK vs DCU freeze up or lag for a sec when Shang is morphing in his victory pose, and that's not even forcing the game to load up a new model, he just turns into the opponent, whose data is already there.
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Lifted
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07/01/2010 05:30 AM (UTC)
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Loading would suck in this game if he has it. Remember, they've modeled each character inside (x-ray moves) and out. That's a lot of data to handle.
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TheOmniOni
07/01/2010 08:20 AM (UTC)
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Shang Tsung is the reason I got into Mortal Kombat. But not for his morphs. For his triple fireballs. (Quintuple in MK1) The morphing was fun as a novelty, but I don't think it's what made him stand out. If anything I'd only want him to morph in a fatality. Not like MKDC but like his Kintaro MKII Fatality.
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kombat_king
07/05/2010 10:43 AM (UTC)
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Seeing as this game is all about the nostalgia I'm sure they'll figure something out
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vlwimb84
07/05/2010 07:39 PM (UTC)
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Normally, I'd vote yes, BUT...

They jumped shark on that idea when they give that power to Shujinko in MKD, at least to morph fighting styles anyway.
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