When it comes to competitive play, people really are going to use a few key moves and combos. I still say that the Freeze and Ice Clone should be his staple special moves. Slide and Cold Shoulder could be used interchangeably through his game appearances. When giving special moves to characters, the theme of the character's gameplay style should always come into mind, not just his/her special powers/abilities.

@ Icebaby & Sub-Zero 7th

Instead of interchanging the moves, why not add on to the ideas of his moves is what I'm saying. One thing I appreciate about other successful fighting games is the consistency of their mainstay characters with little tweeks here and there. Why can't Mortal Kombat characters be consistent.

it shows indecisiviness when you have the developers put in ice clone move and then for the sake of variety take it out the next MK game. They just need to show some consistency and build on their ideas and characters.

I mean there's so many ice themed moves that I can think of...you can create another character or give some to Frost and make her a better character than just a female Sub-Zero rip off.

Reason why they can't be consistent all lays in the hands of the creators.

Their way of improving a character is give them some teleport move and call it a good one. (Armageddon) I know what you're saying about the consistency. And yeah, there are some moves that I would definitely like to see again, i.e. the ice nugget, his air freeze move from MK3, and yeah, the teleport move from MK vc. DC, and would like to see it stay with him.

If not, they could scrap all of the moves and give him some new ones, but keep it to a minimum number. These moves can all be revamped or all new.

And yes, there are so many different moves you can do with ice... They've just giving out the simpliest stuff. We're talking Grandmaster... er... somewhat of the best fighter from the Lin Kuei, I think we could see something that says, "I'm a beast."

One thing I love about the moves in MK9 is how they took old special moves and managed to pepper them into their moves lists SOMEWHERE, even if they're not all strictly specials, so that even if certain moves from old games didn't fit as specials, they could still appear in the game for the fans, so that none of the favorites were left out or forgotten.

For instance, them putting Sonya's Bike Kick in her X-Ray, Johnny's Shadow Uppercut being in his EX Flip Kick and Breaker, Sub's X-Ray having the Cold Shoulder, and Scorpion's Flaming Backflip being a combo ender.

I'd like to see plenty more of that, the idea that the characters can summon their powers in a variety of different ways, not always just by pressing two directions and a button.
(And as I say that, I'm suddenly remembering that Raiden's staff doesn't appear anywhere in all of MK9, not even cutscenes or Fatalities. It's, like, the one thing made conspicuous by its absence...)

Well,I miss staff a lot as well,but you gotta agree that it will be weird as fuck if Raiden would kick the opponent in the middle of the combo with the staff coming out of nowhere. The ONLY way I can see it implemented in MK9 is when he is kicking the opponent with his elbow in his X-Ray,well instead of that,he can summon staff with his lightning and break the opponent's back with it or some shit like that.

I also miss Baraka's weird air kick with his legs connected together in MK2,that shit was sweet! (and I gotta say,air punch was unique as well...damn,now I gotta go and play MK2!)

Speaking of Sub-Zero,I want him a LITTLE bit faster gameplay-wise for the next iterations. He was NEVER the fastest guy to use in previous ones,but he wasn't slow either,I just happen to think in MK9 he is much slower that he used to be. He might be powerful and defensive punisher kind of character,but I don't like that. I liked his overall speed and gameplay in Deadly Alliance and Deception.

Well yeah, I don't think it would've worked in his moves list either, but like I said, a Fatality or him just walking around with it like a walking stick in Story Mode would've been nice. SOME reference somewhere in the game to the iconic image in the "These are the words of Raiden" screen from MK3, y'know?

(lol, What am I sayin'? They didn't remember or attempt to recreate ANYTHING from the MK3 attract screens, why would they start now? )

I also think that Sub-Zero should wear the original costume he had in MK1 with the pants kind of loose fitting and a sleeveless gi with a royal blue vest over the torso and a loose fitting black hood and royal blue cloth made facial mask just like in MK1.

A "genuine" ninja? Technically, Sub-Zero and the Lin Kuei are not really ninja. In the realm of MK's story, Scorpion is the only true ninja. I could argue Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) is more fitting of being a ninja due to his character development in the previous continuity, but that's for a whole different topic.

When it comes to Sub-Zero's costumes, I'd like one costume to be a traditional Lin Kuei garb, which should have strong Chinese influences in it. The alternate costume should be a modernized, lightweight armor designed for the purposes of espionage, among other things.

About his special moves and special moves for characters in general, I personally wouldn't want to go too crazy by having a very large amount. To me, there should be a balance between special moves and hand-to-hand combat techniques.

I agree with the balance of hand to hand combat and the specialty moves. Maybe gameplay similar to Raven in Tekken with his specialty moves and hand to hand combat.

In terms of the Sub-Zero's look, he had the best look in MK1 and MK2. In MK3 was the worst with the suspenders and slicked back hair and tight pants. I think hakama pants with a black sash would a good alternate with a clothed mask over his face would be best. I get tired of seeing renders of Sub-Zero in a oxygen mask or motorcycle mask looking like he's hooked to life support machine in the hospital.

An off-topic question because I'd rather know it from you than looking it up, didn't Raiden have his staff in Shaolin Monks but not make it powerful like it is?

Raiden was an unplayable NPC in Shaolin Monks.

But he did whack Tarkatans over the head with his staff in a cutscene, I believe.

Well, when it comes to moves, his are not that slow actually. For example, his fastest standing normal is 9 frames, while Kitana's is 11. His d+4 is 8 frames, Kitana's is 15 frames, that's almost twice as fast and d+4s are godlike in MK2011. I'm bringing up Kitana for comparison because I remember when I first picked her up she seemed so much faster than Sub-Zero. So, it's quite deceiving actually. There are other characters with even slower normals.

She may seem faster due to better mobility across the screen, but his moves actually come out quicker. So, maybe you'd like him to be a bit more mobile, but that's also tricky 'cause of his ice clone which limits the mobility of other characters so it makes up for his own lack of mobility.

I'm fine with Sub-Zero in MK2011, I just wish his ground freeze was more useful. Maybe if you could dash-cancel it or something, for some mind games. Also, his enhanced ice clone should be more useful, it should either drain the opponent's super meter or disable armor on opponent's moves. The way it is now (just stays longer on screen) no one uses it in high-level play.

@ Nephrite

I think I've seen high level players use the ice clone move very effectively. And the enhanced ice clone I suggested earlier I think would be very useful and prove effective if rendered correctly.

kori blade ripple - he slams his kori blade into the ground creating a wave of sharp iceacles at the opponnent. similar to kula diamonds super move in kof.

ice club formation smack/freeze. similar to his mk4 weapon but he creates his left arm into that weapon which he can use a swipe for a knockdown or freeze an opponnent for a free hit.

these are just 2 ideas i had for sub - zero to incorperate his weapons without having a weapon style/stance.

@ Acidslayer

I like that Kori blade idea for a new move in Sub-Zeros' arsenal.

I just hope that there are new specialty moves for the roster they put out in MK10. And that the tone and feel of the game goes back to the basic of the original MK where everything was simpler.

One of the problems of evolution of this game was that they overdid some things with their designs of characters and backgrounds. I mean Scorpion looks ridiculous at times. And Sub-Zero in MK3 was rendered awful. I would want them to bring MK back to a tournament styled fighting game like Bloodsport with Jean Claude Van Damme. I believe Bloodsport was the original inspiration of the game in a lot of ways before hand too.

Anymore ideas for Sub-Zero? ;- )

I really hope they implement the telefreeze move for Sub-Zero I suggested for his arsonel movesets.

Same thing that stopped the Enenra from popping out of Smoke's chest and kill the doctors that were trying to automate him. Or why he couldn't just turn to smoke and escape from Sindel's grasp before she snapped his neck [and God knows how many more examples I can throw out] The plot didn't call for it.

The only idea I have is bring him back to human. I have yet to see his glorious story in a cinematic way. His inability to save his best friend, his inevitable clash with Scorpion, and his pivotal battle with Sektor to become the Grand Master. Perhaps he can regain his humanity with help of the Medallion.

"It's fictional, the writers wanted it that way" is always a weak argument. If you can't explain something without breaking the fourth wall, it shows there's a plothole there.

For example, here's some in-universe explanations for the things you mentioned:

Smoke wouldn't be able to lash out during automation and save himself because A) his true power as an Enenra is repressed by the amnesia and B) he was probably unconscious on the operating table, unaware of what was being done to him.

Why didn't he teleport away before Sindel snapped his neck? You try thinking on the fly in the middle of a fast-paced battle when you're hurt and caught by surprise.

Why can't Cyber-Smoke un-automate himself by shapeshifting from robot to smoke back to flesh? Because when people become cyberninjas, they lose their powers and have them replaced by tech that does the same thing. Cyber-Smoke didn't turn into magic Enenra smoke, he turned into clouds of nanobots. And nanobots wouldn't be able to turn into skin, only metal.

I can argue both against and for my own points the same way too:

Why can't Cyber-Sub shapeshift into ice and then into flesh? Because, again, Cyborgs don't have their human powers, they use tech. His cryomancy was replaced by refrigeration weapons.

There's a problem with this argument though: he can still teleport by turning into ice: he does the Tombstone Teleport from MKvsDCU as his tag-out animation. You can't make microscopic robots out of ice, so how's he doin' it? (Speaking of which, why does Cyber-Sub need two teleports? He already has Cyrax's exploding limbs version as a special move, why doesn't he just use that?)

Keep in mind, the whole point of my argument was never actually to say "Sub-Zero should have the ability to turn himself back into a human by turning into shapeshifting ice." I don't believe he should be able to do that, the very idea of it sounds stupid...and the fact that it sounds stupid was my point. It was a hypothetical meant to demonstrate my real point, which is that Sub-Zero being able to teleport is retarded.

BEST case scenario, you can say "he's not really teleporting, he's just using an ice clone as a distraction to run away, like a ninja's smoke bomb"...but it still don't look like that's what's happening, especially in his human "This fight will be your last" intro animation. He's bursting out from inside the statue. How did he get in there?

SUB-ZERO (finished)

SUB-ZERO'S COSTUME & ALTERNATE:
Sub-Zero can wear the traditional palette swap from MK1 to which he wears a loose fitting black hood with a blue clothed mask over the lower part of his face. He could also wear a light blue v-shaped vest with a light blue belt and a light blue loin cloth hanging down to about mid-thigh level. He could also wear a sleeveless black undershirt and a pair of loose fitting black ninja pants with black shoes. He could also wear a pair of blue shin pads with a pair of black wrists guards to cover his forearms and wrists. His alternate costume can be a darker shade of blue such as a royal blue or something to that affect.

SUB-ZERO’S SPECIALTY MOVES:
Standard Freeze - Throws an ice projectile through his cusped hands towards his opponent and freezes them into an ice statue if not defended properly.

Deep Freeze – After a series of close knitted and fluid hand motions across his body to draw in the coldness from the air while taking a few steps backwards in the process, Sub-Zero draws in a large amount of cold energy into himself to redirect and concentrate in a central focal point through his cusped hands and throws a ice ball projectile (dark blue) towards his opponent while also leaving a trail of snow/frost residue floating to the ground as it sails across the screen. It can be motioned very similar to the way Sub-Zero motions his "Exploding Ice Statue Fatality" in MK vs DC. It then freezes them into a thicker (dark blue) ice statue which allows a longer series of hits (7 hits approximately). This would make this move a little more difficult to execute successfully against a fast and elusive opponent. That way it wouldn’t take away the relevancy of the standard freeze being that that move would be harder move to execute successfully. The result of the deep freeze would be that the statue thaws out to a regular statue like the standard freeze after series of combos, gradually changing color from dark blue to light blue with each series of hits. Sub-Zero can then execute an additional series of combos after the deep frozen statue thaws into the standard frozen statue. The statue can thaw out with the series of hits like the mini-game portion of Street Fighter where the player throws a barrage of hits to breakdown the vehicle.

Slide - Slides in a motion across the ground on a smooth frozen trail of ice with his hands clasped together in front of him in the same formation that he currently has.

Frozen Hologram - From fighting stance in a standing position, Sub-Zero flings both of his intersecting arms at chest-level backwards past his waist which launches an advancing hologram image of himself that executes a brief series of standing punching combos and aerial juggles towards his opponent. The hologram then freezes into an upstanding ice statue in a high punching pose and disappears in a blinking imprint of Sub-Zero. Touching the ice statue causes opponent to freeze into an ice statue leaving them open for combos.

Ice Hail Storm - Sub-Zero cocks back both of his hands to backside hip in the likeness of his ice ball move and throws a series of golf ball sized hail stones horizontally towards opponent from outstretched arms and open palm facing towards opponent causing a barrage of hits to the upper extremities of opponent.

Raining Hail Storm - Sub-Zero flings his forward arm facing camera to back shoulder and flings his extended arm forward and throws an ice ball in the air in a rainbow like motion that at the peak of the bell curve burst into shards of ice hail to rain golf ball sized hail stones on opponent on its way down.

Cold Shoulder – Skates/glides forward on one knee in a quick motion on his own smoothened ice trail to charge opponent in thinking man’s pose to collide into opponent with shoulder sending opponent back peddling similar to the motion that a cross check is motioned from an ice hockey player.

Frozen Cold Shoulder - Skates/glides forward on one knee in a quick motion on own smoothly surfaced ice trail to charge opponent in thinking man's pose and collides into his opponent. Upon impact Sub-Zero flashes into an ice casing of himself freezing his opponent into a stumbling back pose from the sudden sprinted motioning. Sub-Zero could then follow up with a series of free handed combos.

Teleport Freeze - Teleports either horizontally in front or behind his opponent or vertically in a drop down sequencing and leaves a blinking hologram imprint of himself behind that disappears after he teleports. Once transported Sub-Zero quickly flashes an ice casing of himself in mid-air in the pose of a flying punch either behind his opponent, teleporting in front of his opponent, or dropping down sequence from the top of the screen transitioning from a sommersault to a flying punching pose on the head to freeze his opponent in an ice statue when physically touched and not defended properly. Can be blocked or avoided.

Ice Clone - Skips backwards or flips backwards and leaves a frozen image of himself behind that freezes opponent and disappears in a frozen blinking imprint of Sub-Zero.

Frozen Escape – Skates/glides backwards in a kneeling position on one knee with arms extended sideward slightly tilted perpendicular to the plane of the camera lens on his own ice trail to avoid opponent’s attacks or to provide room to recover from opponent's attacks.

Ground Freeze - Throws an ice ball projectile on ground with his front side knee raised directly from his cusped hands that forms a frozen puddle to lock opponent’s feet in place temporarily leaving opponent susceptible to combos and hits.

Reverse Freeze – Flash freezes himself in an ice casing image in his blocking stance which in turn freezes opponent if physically touched then immediately thaws out.

Ground Ice Picks - From fighting stance, Sub-Zero motions down into a crouching position and thrusts his hand to the ground in an open palm. This motion causes a stream of ice to race along the ground towards his opponent. The ice stream generates sequential knee-level sharpened picks of ice protruding upwards from the frozen ground stream propelling his opponent backwards with each stab for a possible air juggle combo. It can look similar to the move executed in the fight scene between Sub-Zero and Scorpion in the web series of MK.

Bear With Me – From fighting stance, Sub-Zero cocks back his forward side arm facing the camera, to backside shoulder and flings it towards his opponent to spray a gust of blizzard like ice mist that sails across the screen and expands into a large human sized cloud of mist which briefly takes on the flashing image of an upright holographic polar bear motioning in a maw and clawing movement towards his opponent before disappearing in a blinking imprint within the dissolving mist cloud scoring Sub-Zero with three slashes.

Dry Ice – From fighting stance, Sub-Zero flings his forward side arm towards his opponent and grapples their neck in a tightening grip while lifting them in the air slightly single-handedly. He then skips backward leaving a holographic blinking imprint of himself in the still stance of grappling his opponent while they struggle to loosen the image’s grip flinging their legs in the air. It could look like they were stuck in place as if it were an episode of freezer burn. Sub-Zero then can follow up with series of open-handed combos right before the holographic image disappears in a blinking imprint.

Freezer Burn - After a series of fluid motions by his head to draw in the coldness from the air, Sub-Zero redirects the cold energy through his punching hand and thrust his closed fist single-handedly into the mid-section of his opponent causing his opponent's flash freeze his whole body and then thawing down into the frozen mid-section of his opponent and onto Sub-Zero's closed fist. Sub-Zero then can thrust into a quick jab to his opponent's face with his free hand sending his opponent into a backwards stumble and at the same time yanking his closed fists away from his opponent's chest, ripping off a piece of their garments or bare skin and depleting a portion of their energy bar. This causes opponent to fall to his knees and clinched their chest region in agony while Sub-Zero can follow up with some hand-based combos or moves.

Enhanced Ice Clone - From fighting stance, Sub-Zero flings his intersecting arms back past his waist. He then can initate a specific movement and leave a lighten blue imaged clone of himself behind mirroring the movement for a span of a second delay only to freeze an overly aggressive opponent where they stand. Upon contact, the ice clone would disappear in a blinking imprint of himself or if avoided would retract back and merge into the original Sub-Zero figure.



SUB-ZERO’S FATALITY:
Head Grip - Grapples opponent’s neck while they stand disoriented and slowly yet gradually freezes opponents head and neck region while they struggle to get loose from grip, then opponent’s arms drop to their side when head and neck region is fully frozen. Sub-Zero then rips off the head/spine from body like as if to be frozen by liquid nitrogen. Then his opponent’s headless body drops to the floor in a pool of blood.

Head Explosion - Grapples the neck of disoriented opponent and slowly freezing the head and upper extremities of upper torso with grappling hand. Opponent stiffens to fall down on their knees from the freezer burn. Sub-Zero then executes a roundhouse kick towards the camera shattering the head of his opponent into pieces and launching chunks of his head towards the camera.

SUB-ZERO’S MID-MATCH TAUNT:
Sub-Zero raises his right arm in victory slightly bent at the elbow and yells uttering the phrase “Gobeya!” while facing and looking down on his fallen opponent and then walks backwards to his fighting position in his fighting stance in a cool and calm level-headed mindset.

SUB-ZERO'S INTRO:
A full body shot cuts to Sub-Zero dropping down from the sky only to land with his head down in a crouching two point stance on one knee incased in ice. The ice casing then dissolves in the air like dry ice vapors revealing Sub-Zero in a crouching two point stance on one knee as he then ascends into a standing position uttering the phrase, "You don't know what I'm capable of." in a subtle yet cold and blank stare. He then transitions into his fighting stance. (Sound effects would be a whistling cold wind blizzard while the ice casing dissolves into the air.)

SUB-ZERO’S WINNING POSE:
Sub-Zero turns to the camera and raises his right arm in victory staring at the camera.

SUB-ZERO FIGHTING STANCE:
Sub-Zero can have the original fighting stance he had in MK1 to where it looks like he’s motioning to come here with his backside hand slightly raised up to chest level and his forward arm resting downward at his side as he subtly rocks back and forth from a standing position.

next game sub zero needs ice blast, ice clone, ice puddle, the slide, the upward ice freeze thing he had back in mk3-mkt, and cold shoulder. give him all the moves he had in the past games. even tho some of them were from classic sub. it would be awesome just to see all those moves come back.

Give him the MK3 classic outfit from MK9. dat ass. lol

Sub-Zero can look exactly like he did in MK1, with a sleeveless black gi and loose fitting hakama pants. He could wear a loose fitting but comfortable hood with a traditional clothed royal blue facial mask covering his lower part of his face. He then could have the royal blue vest with a clothed garment hanging down over his private parts. He finally, could have royal blue shin guards and black forearm guards to go over both of his hands and arms.