I don't see what's to like about post-retcon Scorpion. He's a very boring, 1-dimensional character with an overly redundant storyline.

Scorpion's plan in MKA is utterly stupid. He thinks that by destroying Taven and Daegon that things will be bad for the Elder Gods. While that will be bad for the Elder Gods, it basically leads to the destruction of the realms. How does that really solve anything for him? He still wouldn't be reunited with his family and his soul will never rest. Soon the end, he fucks himself over.

MKSM seems canon to me even though I don't want it to be. Everything wrong about him was proudly broadcasted in that game as well as MKA. He's clearly been turned into an imbecile. He even gives a thumbs up to Liu Kang and Kung Lao after getting his ass handed to him, so I guess he's also some kind of masochist.

I can't believe you'd actually be interested in such bland and annoying characters. He's just all about revenge. It's lame and has gotten old already.

Why I prefer pre-retcon Scorpion is because there was more to him than some tormented loner who wanted to avenge the death of his family and clan. He was essentially a good person who simply wanted to provide the best for his wife and son by joining the Shirai Ryu. Also, he tells Older Sub-Zero that he is not a murderer yet at the near end of MK1, he kills Sub-Zero, finally getting his revenge.

However, after learning about the Younger Sub-Zero and seeing how he shows mercy, Scorpion probably felt shame for his actions thus why he vowed to protect him.

When MK3 came along, Shao Kahn offered Scorpion a place as one of his warriors. Even though Scorpion learned that Sub-Zero was one of the Chosen Warriors and was ordered to destroy them, he instead turned of Kahn when he could've helped him and stay out of the Netherrealm forever. But he saw the bigger picture and did something selfless.

I prefer interesting characters that have depth to them. That's part of why Sub-Zero is my favorite character. He's had good story and character development throughout his entire storyline.

What character development has Scorpion had? Well, thanks to MK4 and MKDA, that would be NONE. So after all this time, he'd been after the wrong person when he was mad only at the Older Sub-Zero. This makes him out to be a real dumbass.

So what if Scorpion is one of the undead? It doesn't make him invincible nor does it make him the most powerful.

I used to like Scorpion as he had more going for him. But now, he's just a big joke.

To Sub-Zero 7: Believe it or not, but your arguments are EXACTLY why I like Scorpion. Honor and nobility are kool and all, just not in Scorpion...more someone who can actually headline a game and not just be an extra (Maybe if Kung Lao was originally evil or something...). The thing I like about Scorpion, as I said before, is that he's so intense, brutal, and revenge-seeking. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he's so similar to Ghost Rider, one of my favorite super heroes, or because he pretty much embodies everything I like about Mortal Kombat minus the far-reaching stories.

Referencing his role in Armagedon, maybe Scorpion was aware of what would happen if Armagedon came but would have preferred oblivion to the Netherrealm (Like the demons trying to get Loki and Barbados, or whatever his name was, get back into heaven in the movie "Dogma.") or knew that he'd never be able to take on the Elder Gods so he attacked them the only way he knew how to. Of course, I would have loved it if he didn't know all of that or didn't care because another thing I love about Scorpion is how stupid he is. Call me crazy but I think it emphasizes just how EXTREME he is. While we're still on the topic of bad traits in characters, do Smoke and Reptile count as undeveloped characters in your book? I ask because those are my first and second favorite characters, in respective order, in MK.

Going back to the "Sub-Zero vs Scorpion" thing, I think undead does play a role in this fight because Scorpion isn't tethered by mortal ailments such as fatigue and hunger. I know Sub-Zero has the Dragon Medallion and cryomancer armor (As well as Midway favoring him over almost everyone...especially Scorpion.) but that doesn't change the fact that he's mortal. Even if Sub-Zero is a better fighter, which I doubt outside of Midway faovring him in every cinematic they make, Scorpion will just keep coming and coming. Eventually, Sub-Zero's gonna run out of steam and Scorpion will still be in prime condition, ready to do things to Sub-Zero that would even Shinnok would say "Hey, due, that's not kool! You're a jerk!"

So basically, you're telling me that you prefer flat, boring, stupid, 1-dimensional characters?

What you still don't get is that I wasn't really trying to bring honor into the picture. I was trying to point out that pre-retcon Scorpion had DEPTH to him, something that post-retcon Scorpion lacks.

Post-retcon Scorpion's storyline goes like this:

MK1: Finds, fights, and kills the Older Sub-Zero and returns to the Netherrealm

MK2 and MK3: Either finds Younger Sub-Zero, fights him and loses or doesn't cross paths with him

MK4: fights and beats Sub-Zero, only to find out that Quan Chi is the true killer; takes Quan Chi with him to the Netherrealm and chases him for years

MKDA: still chases Quan Chi, gets defeated, comes back, gets tossed into the Soulnado

MKD: escapes the Void, becomes Champion of the Elder Gods, helps Shujinko destroy Onaga but doesn't deal the killing blow

MKA: tries to get revenge on the Elder Gods by trying to kill Taven, only to get his ass kicked

So basically, in all the games, he's always his predator that goes after someone only to either never come across them or to get his ass handed to him. The only exception of course is with MK4 in which he actually does defeat Sub-Zero. It's pretty much redundant and you like this sorry piece of trash that's his story? If so, that's telling me you like boring, redundant storylines that have little to no depth.

Post-retcon Scorpion is simply just someone who is almost always out for revenge, that's it.

Pre-retcon Scorpion is far superior, because there was MORE to him than just someone out for revenge. He isn't some mindless imbecile like post-retcon Scorpion is.

You actually LOVE how stupid he is, because it emphasizes just how extreme he is? Yuck. That's not the slightest bit intelligible.

With the qualities he has, he could never be considered a real Ninja by any means. In fact, Sub-Zero is probably the only male ninja-type character that I consider a Ninja.

Scorpion's rash and thoughtless actions should never be considered skillful means and doesn't even represent anything remotely close to Ninpo or Ninjutsu.

About Scorpion just coming and coming, that's a point that I was sure I brought up before. Shit like this greatly takes away meaning and consequence of death. This needs to change soon.

Regarding characters like Smoke and Reptile, they aren't really the same as Scorpion. Smoke is a particularly tragic character who hasn't been in too many games and hasn't had story exploration. Scorpion has been in the series since the first game and his post-retcon self has zero character development and zero intelligence. Reptile is also a tragic character whose relative lack of intelligence actually has a story explanation to it, which further display the tragedy in his story. Unfortunately, he is somewhat of a hypocrite as did commit genocidal acts when serving Shao Kahn.

But still, at least these two haven't had destroyed storylines like Scorpion's.

Honestly, how far can they really take Scorpion's storyline? What would he be doing 2...3 games from now, the same goddamn fucking thing? If so, and if especially you still like it, well, although I find that to be idiotic in itself, to each his/her own, I suppose...

Scorpion hands down

To S to Z to the number Sevizzle: It seems we know two different Scorpions to one extent or another. You only see him as an illogical asshole who can't fight. While I agree that his pre-retcon self had more twists and turns and that now he's an idiot, I myself see Scorpion as a bit of a tragic hero in the sense that he only joined the Shira Ryu to support his family, got killed for it, and has only wanted to avenge their and his deaths ever since. To me, that makes him sympathetic while at the same time, awesome because Hellfire and vengence, as pointed out by Ghost Rider, are kool. And about all of his loses, I'd like to point out that the only reason that he lost to Sub-Zero, as Scorpion, not Hanzo Hasashi, in Mythologies is because EVERYONE lost to Sub-Zero in Mythologies. Honestly, Sub got way too big of a push in that game so it shouldn't affect the record for anyone that was punished by appearing in that game. He won in MK1, did God knows what in MK2 and 3 (Probably fought off some of Kahn's lower minions so that's a win...right? ), won in MK4, and lost twice in Deadly Alliance but only because he fought Quan Chi, one of MK's most powerful characters, and then Moloch and Drahmin, two other powerful characters, at the same time and almost won the second encounter. Considering that his loses occured in his quest for vengence and retribution, I think that makes them a bit saddening and thusly a little deeper than what you give him credit for. Also, God help me, I like Scorpion because he looks kool. That's always been a major influence on me and still affects me to this day. If I'm not initially attracted to someone via some awesome appearance, nine times out of ten I never take interest in them and thusly never learn about them.

Going back to Smoke and Reptile, I should have been more specific when I mentioned them because I do like them for the very reasons that you said they were interesting...That and their appearances. However, I find that Reptile has been straying away from the sad, tortured lapdog that I fell in love with in Dealy Alliance. Now it seems that he's just a green guy who hates warm-blooded creatures and likes to hang around gigantic snakes. I liked him more when he made Shao Kahn the center of his existence, not his own wants and needs...which is actually part of the reason you don't like Scorpion anymore, right (I know you said it's because he's flat but wasn't his going after what he wants the reason for his stale storyline?)?

Well, you say that Scorpion's boring because he doesn't have any moral complications or interactions outside of starting fights with people but I can't help but be entranced by his quest for revenge and think that that's enough for me. Granted, it would be nice if his MK3 ending happened...but I wouldn't want it at the cost of who he is now (Man, how messed up do I sound? I'm saying I don't want him to have done something good because I'd miss something borderline evil too much!).

okay guys, i'm back in the discussion...and i still dont think scorpions been turned in to an asshole....but sub-zero can still kiss my ass!what?,you didnt get why?okay,u can kiss my ass!

although,the scorpion i vote for was in MK1,where the costume still kicked ass,and his vocabulary consisted of GET OVER HERE!,and COME HERE!.ahhh...yeah now those were the good'ol days...don't u think?

Scorpion's story is very redundant and hasn't been fleshed out. He's supposed to be a neutral-ish loner, not some bad guy who sides with people like Shang Tsung like in MKSM.

It makes sense that he goes after Quan Chi, but that's all he pretty much did. There wasn't much depth to him. Also, I can understand his hatred, but he needs to grow as a character for him to be interesting again. The fact that his anger still clouds his mind is lame.

In his MKD alt bio, he says that he would be forever changed by his encounter with the Elder Gods yet in MKA, he's still the same moron. So he hasn't changed at all, which also makes him a liar.

I would rather have him accept the fact that his family is gone and for him to find a way for his soul to ascend to the Heavens in order to be with them. The idea is that he kills Quan Chi during Armageddon yet his soul doesn't rest.

I just don't understand why you wouldn't want him to have any character development. How long can this whole revenge story go? It's gotten stale already. Let him have his revenge and then take him into a different and better direction.

Scorpion's MKD primary costume is my favorite look of his. His alt costume, on the other hand, is a joke. It may have been tolerable (somewhat) back in MK4, but in MKD and MKA, it's pretty silly with the tight spandex. It's not very Ninja-like at all. I'd rather have them draw inspiration from Japanese influences through Ninja and Samurai Yoroi. Also, his swords should be curved and have round hand guards as that is accurate, and they are supposed to be on his side, not on his back.

About Reptile, he doesn't really seem to know any better, which is part of his tragedy.

Scorpion either thought that the Younger Sub-Zero was the Older Sub-Zero or thought that the Younger Sub-Zero is also responsible for the death of his family and clan. Either way, Scorpion has clearly been trying to hunt him down since MK2, which doesn't make sense since Quan Chi framed only the Older Sub-Zero. But, this is basically one of those plotholes that hasn't been solved. It either makes Scorpion look like a moron or simply ignorant.

Anyway, going back to Reptile, if he knew better, he would've turned against Shao Kahn long ago. His endings have hinted that. Again, the reason why Scorpion's story is stale is because it's way too much more of the same and there's nothing much else in his story that can take him somewhere else. He has one of the most linear and overly simplistic stories in MK. Sure, not everyone can be a star. However, Scorpion is a character that has lots of fans and fanboys/fangirls and is a character that is expected by many to return again and again. For him to have a very linear and overly simplistic storyline is not the way to go.

What I think the way to go is for him to get his revenge on Quan Chi but not have his soul rest, thus leading to him reflecting on his behavior and actions in the past. I would like to see him eventually be one of Noob Saibot's biggest enemies and to have Scorpion want to destroy him, not out of anger or revenge, but out of taking responsibility for his actions.

Just on a side note, although I said I consider Sub-Zero a Ninja, I meant in terms of him acting like more of an actual Ninja. In terms of MK itself, I just consider him a Lin Kuei warrior and I don't consider the Lin Kuei to be Ninja. I'm saying this to clear up some confusion that I might've set up in another thread.

sub zero rox!

To the 7th Sub-Zero: While I like the Scorpion we have now, I admit that I wouldn't mind a change coming to his tale. Granted, I could still feed off of his revenge thing so long as things keep happening to him (i.e. how in MK4, he change targets; DA he was thrown in the Soulnado; just keep throwing stuff at him so he has something to do...), but I really liked his Deception storyline and I'm disappointed that Armagedon didn't draw more from Deception. Of course, I am a fan of how they referenced how he worked for the Elder Gods and they screwed him over. That much I'm a fan of because they didn't just ignore something he did while giving him an excuse to act the way he's acting...And considering Armagedon was supposed to be bigger than Onaga and that Onaga was supposed to be playable in it, I find that their overlooking Scorpion's champion status acceptable.

I think the reason Scorpion has yet to get a new storyline is because if he did get revenge, MK would have to kill off one of their characters. While bringing back MK characters is as easy as that character going to the Netherrealm and striking a deal with Shinnok, having Scorpion kill them and have them come back anyway not only leaves Scorpion likely to return to chasing them, but it also wouldn't be very good (And I think we both know that MK wouldn't want to kill off someone like Quan Chi permanantly so they would do this.). Provided MK did kill someone, I do like the concept of Scorpion reflecting on his sins but I really don't see the relevance of Noob Saibot. Granted, Scorpion killed Sub-Zero and thusly made him but it's not like Noob's a major villain, he's just Sub-Zero 1's punishment for his own sins. Maybe if Noob somehow became the next headlining villain Scorpion's pursual of him would be justified because then he would be responsible for a really big problem; but outside of that, it really doesn't mean much and I don't think Scorpion even knows who Noob is or vice versa. My idea for a new story for Scorpion woud go like this: Scorpion finally kills Quan Chi but finds that his soul still isn't at rest and decides to reflect on his actions. Somewhere down the line, for whatever reason, he teams up with the second Sub-Zero to take out Noob, who would have a cybernetic demon army for this plot. During the course of the demon vs Lin Kuei battle, Sub-Zero and Scorpion confront Noob and Smoke. Smoke is easily dispatched and it boils down to Sub-Zero and Noob. Scorpion, being of the the Netherrealm like Noob, sees that some trace of the original Sub-Zero is still inside Noob and through some vague circumstance that I haven't planed out, Scorpion sacrifices himself to free elder Sub-Zero from his shadowy prison. From here, he may find himself reunited with his family in the Heavens. Though, considering this is MK and endings are usually cruel and ironic, Scorpion might just flat-out or is reunited with his family...IN THE NETHERREALM! Boon and co could most likely do something like this for MK8 seeing as how they're trying to overhaul MK into something new and this seems rather revolutionary. I admit that I would actually like to see this happen. Of course, whether his ending's for better or worse, I don't think we'd never see Scorpion again after this. Not only would I and the legions of Scorpoholics not like this (Aside from the fact that it was a good story...), but Ed Boon would most likely not want to let go of his favorite character and MK's most famous move, the Spear. On a side note, doesn't everyone who dies in MK go to the Netherrealm? I haven't heard of any incidents in which people go anywhere besides Shang Tsung or the Netherrealm.

The way I see Scorpion's relation to the Sub-Zero brothers is that he went after Sub-Zero 1 for obvious reasons. Then, as pointed out by MK2, he saw that a Sub-Zero was still walking about in the living realm and thought that his job wasn't done. My guess is that from there, he kept chasing the second Sub-Zero, convicnced that he was original or that he didn't really come back until MK4 and actually sat out MK2 and 3. This theory seems to be backed up by how Sub-Zero 2 dones his brother's costume in MK4 (More because his bio made such a big deal out of it.) and the fact that Scorpion's retcon prohibits him from actually having had fulfilled his MK2 and 3 endings. Now onto Scorpion's neutrality. You're the only person I know that thinks Shaolin Monks really happened. While all of Kahn's minions that died in that game could have come back via that spell he put on all of them (As seen in Shang Tsung's Armagedon biography...) in time for MK3, the fact that Mileena didn't die in that game and actually beat Kitana in a fight and, more importantly, that Shao Kahn died, make the game completely uncannonical. I think this game was just made as a reference Havok studio's adoration of MK2 and/or because the MK team couldn't think of anything else to release in their supposed one year time frame in which to release a game. This game really isn't supposed to be taken seriously hence the faulty storyline and Scorpion's out-of-character actions. They just wanted to insert Scorpion as a boss and if you're gonna go back to MK's past, the Scorpion/Sub-Zero thing would be a major element that you have to play up on.

his origional plot 4 revenge was 4 sub-zero,and i liked the whole enemy thing...it was origional.

But if Scorpion doesn't kill Quan Chi, and both return, Scorpion will most likely go after Quan Chi, again and again, thus making his story more redundant. And I really doubt there'll be much else to his story. Killing Quan Chi off and having him come back is possible, but yeah, it wouldn't be a good idea. Having him die for good is what I think should happen. The idea is that his body will be gone but his soul will be trapped in the 5th plane of the Netherrealm.

About relevance to Noob Saibot, well, the idea is that he goes deeper towards his path of darkness, trying to build forces and take control of the Netherrealm. He should basically be built up as a powerful force. What I think should happen is that he finds Scorpion, reveals his identity, and tries to persuade him into becoming one of his generals. It may seem strange, but I think it can work as Noob Saibot is proud of what he became, so I think in a way, he'd probably thank Scorpion. However, Scorpion would likely be disgusted at what his old enemy has become and that can refresh their rivalry. But instead, this rivalry will be different as Noob Saibot would want to destroy Scorpion for rejecting his offer as well as eliminating traces of his past. Scorpion will want to destroy Noob Saibot as a means of taking responsibility for his actions as well as putting an end to an evil he helped create.

Let's say that Scorpion and Sub-Zero do eventually team up to take down Noob Saibot. There should be an interesting contrast in that while Sub-Zero believes there is still good left in his brother and hopes to free him, Scorpion believes that there's nothing left of the old Sub-Zero in Noob Saibot and would want to destroy him for the greater good.

Why would everyone who dies in MK go to the Netherrealm? It doesn't make sense and can't be true. The Netherrealm is a place for evil/corrupted souls. But with characters like Kitana, for example, who have had a dark past, with her death, she would likely make it to the Heavens due to the change in her path in life.

In MK2, Scorpion learned of Sub-Zero's return and wanted to pursue him again. I'm sure he had to have been confused as I'm sure he was sure he had died. Due to the retcon, Scorpion had been going after him in MK2-MK4, still believing that he had killed his family and clan. Keep in mind that it was stated that Quan Chi framed the older Sub-Zero. It wasn't stated that Quan Chi framed the younger Sub-Zero as well. If Scorpion went after the younger Sub-Zero, thinking it was the same man who killed him years ago, it really makes things look bad for Scorpion.

However, if he knew that this Sub-Zero was the younger brother and still went after him, it definitely means that the events in his MK2 and MKT endings were retconned. This leaves one of a few possibilities.

a. Scorpion assumes that the younger Sub-Zero is like his older brother and all Lin Kuei and wants to get back at the older Sub-Zero, whom he still believes also took away his family and clan. So basically, Scorpion would be thinking that killing the younger Sub-Zero is a taste of the older Sub-Zero's medicine, so to speak. I don't like this as it would make Scorpion just as bad as the older Sub-Zero. And keep in mind that Scorpion stated that he isn't a murderer. So for him to stalk someone who wasn't responsible for murderering his family and clan and murder him anyway, especially since the older Sub-Zero wasn't directly responsible for the death of Scorpion's family and clan, it really looks bad.

b. Scorpion assumes that the younger Sub-Zero is also responsible for the death of Scorpion's family and clan, which definitely retcons the events of his MK2 and MKT endings. This makes him ignorant of what kind of person he's really dealing with.

c. Scorpion was tricked by Quan Chi between the events of MK1 and MK2, being led to believe that the younger Sub-Zero is also responsible for the death of Scorpion's family and clan. This kind of strikes me as odd as it would contradict Scorpion's MK2 bio.

The beginning of Scorpion's MKDA primary bio starts off like this:

"The ninja spectre Scorpion had assumed for many years that Sub-Zero had killed his family and clan, only to later discover that the true murderer was the sorcerer Quan Chi."

So he basically made an assumption that Sub-Zero had killed his family and clan.

Part of Sub-Zero's MKDA Konquest mission states the following:

"Many years ago, Sub-Zero's brother was manipulated by the sorcerer Quan Chi to retrieve for him an amulet from it's hiding place in Earthrealm. The sorcerer later framed Sub-Zero's brother for the death of Scorpion's family and clan, which led to his demise at the hands of the enraged ninja spectre, Scorpion."

This is what I was talking about before. So which Sub-Zero is he mad at?

But then a bit later in Sub-Zero's MKDA Konquest missions, it states something that goes more along with Scorpion's MKDA bio, namely this:

"Scorpion has hunted Sub-Zero for years. He believed that Sub-Zero murdered his family and clan. Now he believes Quan Chi to be the true murderer, and will not harm Sub-Zero."

This is a really confusing plothole, and I do think that perhaps something in regards to Sub-Zero wearing a similar costume to the one his older brother wore kind of confused some of the people behind MK4 or something.

But yeah, Scorpion has been after Sub-Zero for many years. If he did fight him in MK2 and MK3, we know he wasn't successful in beating him. If he didn't fight him, just what the hell did he do? Either way, it's crap.

Regarding MKSM, you have to "suspend disbelief" when it comes to the deaths. Mileena could've died in MKSM and that it was an offscreen thing, kind of like the older Sub-Zero's death.

I'm pretty sure the game IS supposed to be taken seriously as they hired someone who was supposed to make sure the story was kept true to the canon AND the MK team themselves attempted to answer the story questions in MKSM as if it was part of the canon storyline.

One particular example would be how Sub-Zero gets his scar. There was confusion by the fans, who thought that Sub-Zero being "marked for death" by the Lin Kuei was his scar. However, they made it clear that Kung Lao did indeed give Sub-Zero his scar, which makes Kung Lao look stupid.

There's also the (bad) attempt at explaining Quan Chi's appearance in MKSM's ending, something I think that his MKA ending seems to attempt to explain, at least in some part, which is most likely going to explain how Quan Chi gets the amulet back.

You know, they could've taken a better route with Scorpion's story in MKA. Instead of half-assing the resurrection of his clan, why not just have the Elder Gods force Scorpion to successfully complete a certain amount of tasks in order for his wishes to be granted? It would kind of give him more of that Ghost Rider feel, if done right.



You're not making any sense. Why don't you just grow up and come back to MKO when you've developed the ability to say something intelligible?

To Sub Zero 007: I'll start with the least important topic: Noob Saibot. One little flaw with your proposed story is that, as pointed out by Noob-Smoke's Deception ending, Noob has no memory of his former life or anyone from it. Given this, he couldn't thank Scorpion for making him into what he is as he doesn't even know Scorpion. However, I am a fan of Scorpion and Sub-Zero having differing opinions on Noob's morality and I was thinking the same thing myself. While the tale is good, I doubt that anyone would buy Noob being raised to a fighting game's final boss. I'd say make another Shaolin Monks game but have it focus on this Noob cyber army and have Scorpion and Sub-Zero be the main playable characters.

As for Shaolin Monks, I guess Mileena could have died offscreen but I doubt it as that seems like something a bit too important to be done without us knowing about it seeing as how you fought her twice in the game and how Johnny Cage says he might try to find Mileena and nobody corrects him about her not being dead. Granted, he could have been talking too low for anyone to hear him but he must have found out about her when he was imprisoned and if he was told about Mileena and still wanted to go after her, then nobody told him that she was dead. Given this, I doubt that Mileena died in that game. Also, they said that Noob was posessed by an Elder God. Unless they mean that Shinnok is controlling him, this doesn't make sense and even if that is what they're saying, it doesn't sync up with the rest of the series as it has yet to be stated that Shinnok is controlling Noob as seen by how Noob went from working for Shinnok to working for Kahn and is now acting on his own accord even though Shinnok is still around...also, it hasn't been flat-out stated that Shinnok's controlling him (Maybe when his bio's released but as of yet, that's not the case.). The main thing wrong with this game is that Shao Kahn died at the end. I guess it's just supposed to coincide with how everyone's ending in that game had them killing Kahn and how he had a flashy death sequence every time you beat him but if that's the case, that just supports my theory that it's just a meaningless reference to the old days as Kahn has yet to die and the closest thing to his death would be his clone's death which didn't happen until Dealy Alliance and this clone could only have been made once so it's not like he used a clone to fight in his place back then. And as for Quan Chi, his Armagedon ending states that he is transformed into the amulet and sent back in time. If he's the amulet, how could he go about looking for himself, especially since the MKA ending says that upon going back in time, Shinnok, not Shao Kahn or Quan Chi, finds him/it?

As for Scorpion's own timeline...I didn't know the retcon was that bad. I thought it just undid his MK2 and MKT endings. Let's see, he was a man once, Sub-Zero 1 killed him. Later on, he finds SZ1 in the Netherrealm and loses again. By then, he was either out for revenge for himself or his clan was already destroyed and Quan Chi told him that SZ1 was responsible for it. Fast forward to MK1, Scorpion kills SZ1 and goes back to the Netherrealm. Now this is the foggy area. All we know is that he mistook SZ2 for SZ1 at first and at least wanted to go after him. Whether or not he tried in MK2 and MK3 remains a mystery. If he did try, then he obviously failed as you stated. However, it's possible that, seeing as how he's dead and thusly can't go to the living realm whenever he wishes, he had to wait in the Netherrealm until MK4 when Quan Chi approached him with an offer. Still unaware that Quan Chi has tricked him ever since MK Mythologies, Scorpion ditches him to go after SZ2. Scorpion defeats SZ2 and almost kills him until Quan Chi comes in and rats himself out. Scorpion takes Quan Chi with him to the Netherrealm. The only problem with my "waiting around in the Netherrealm" angle is that the DA Konquest missions say that he's been chasing SZ2 all this time, not sitting around wishing he could get him. As for why he goes after SZ2, I know it's not to do the same thing he hated SZ1 for doing, namely killing people for their relations to other people. More likely, he either never found out that SZ2 is a different SZ or he got to thinking "Hmm...if I'm still pissed off all the time, maybe I didn't kill the right guy. Maybe my clan's true killer is THIS guy, not the guy that killed me." With this mindset, he made SZ2 his new target, believing him to be the one he wanted originally. In summation: Scorpion's been out and about in every MK game, chasing SZ2 because he believed him to be his clan's true murderer. He came to this conclusion himself, not because Quan Chi told him this or anything of the sort. And to reference why Quan Chi says "In order to defeat my nemesis Sub-Zero, I needed the power of a spectre," I believe that means he used Scorpion to kill the original Sub-Zero. The hunt for SZ2 was by Scorpion's own design. I would have preferred that he mistook SZ2 for SZ1 this entire time and sat around in the Netherrealm until MK4 as this would keep up some continuity with his spectrehood and how he has to be brought out of the Netherrealm rather than come and go as he pleases. It also would have explained the Sub-Zero debacle a lot more easily. Granted, it would have made him stupid but aren't most revengeoholics pretty dumb? I mean, look at Ghost Rider. The John Blaze Ghost Rider often times focuses on revenge (i.e. Satan tricked me into letting him out of Hell so I'm gonna kick his ass for that!) and he's a stupid hick. Who's to say that Scorpion isn't pretty dumb as well? As for Scorpion jumping through loops for the Elder Gods, that doesn't sound like Scorpion. He's never done another man's bidding. Sure, he would have a reason to obey the Elder Gods this time...but that sounds a bit submissive of Scorpion to dance for them and would have been out of character for him if you ask me.

Nope, I'm afraid you're mistaken regarding Noob Saibot. He definitely knows about his former life. You didn't read Noob-Smoke's ending carefully as Noob Saibot recognized his brother and ordered Smoke to kill him. He seems to be proud of what he's become and desires to stay in the Netherrealm. So yeah, he'll remember Scorpion too. I don't want Noob Saibot to be a boss character, but he should kind of be built up into more of a major antagonist role.

I think Johnny Cage was talking to himself and that the others weren't really paying any attention to him.

I believe that they have to be referring to Shinnok. We don't know how much Shinnok has/had control over Noob Saibot, and I think that perhaps Shinnok's defeat in MK4, with him being weakened, may have broken some control over Noob Saibot. I think that Quan Chi's death in MKD's intro may have also had even more of an effect on Noob's free will returned.

Regarding MKA with Shinnok and Noob, either Shinnok has gotten around to being able to control him again or Noob Saibot is simply feigning loyalty.

Going back to Shaolin Monks, you have to suspend disbelief on the deaths, including Shao Kahn's. Yes, the story is terrible and doesn't make much sense, but the MK team seem to consider it canon.

As for Quan Chi, I think that they are trying to use bits of his MKA ending to explain how he got back the Amulet. Perhaps between MKD and MKA, Quan Chi somehow went back in time to obtain a version of the Amulet. But yeah, either way, it's a big mess that needs to be resolved in his and maybe even Shinnok's bios. I hope they'll have some of the longest and most detailed bios as they are some pretty big antagonists in this game.

Yeah, Scorpion's retcon is really just that horrible thus why I hate his story now.

Well, if he did start to think that maybe the younger Sub-Zero and not the older Sub-Zero was the real killer, it would still make him very ignorant as he would assume that all the Lin Kuei are the same and that the younger Sub-Zero is no different from his older brother. But yeah, it would explain the whole assumption thing, even though the explanation itself would be terrible.

Yes, Quan Chi definitely used Scorpion to kill the older Sub-Zero.

Having Scorpion mistake the younger Sub-Zero for the older one the entire time wouldn't be a good idea, imo, as it would make him look stupid. Also, it would contradict his MK3 story, in which Kahn's failed attempt at stealing the souls from the Netherrealm enables Scorpion to be freed from it.

Scorpion making stupid mistakes in the past isn't so bad if he actually LEARNS from them and becomes smarter and wiser. That would be character development. The fact that he's still whining about his family and clan after all this time shows that he hasn't changed at all.

Him become the Elder Gods' champion was not without him wanting something in return, thus the deal that his clan would be resurrected if he could slay Onaga. Maybe it is a bit submissive of Scorpion, but after being tormented all this time, don't you think that he might be a bit desparate to do what it takes to get his family and clan back? Didn't you say something about how you liked how determined Scorpion is? It would certainly be more plausible than just having Scorpion kill Quan Chi or just have Scorpion constantly chasing him. Neither one will help bring his family and clan back nor will it enable him to be reunited with them.

So with his soul not being able to rest, that of course enables Scorpion to continue on in future MK games, but it doesn't do much else for him.

Well I guess most of our disagreements won't be addressed until the MK team and Havok studios decide to make Shaolin Monks 2 based on MK3...Hopefully they do that because they have a lot of explaining to do if they want Shaolin Monks to be cannon and the game was awesome anyway so I'd love to see another one...of course, I think it would have more robots in it than Kahn minions, especially if they don't bring the minions that died in the first SM (They'd most likely HAVE to bring them back seeing as how Kano died in the first SM and yet he appears in MK3.). One last problem I have with SM though is why did Shao Kahn have the amulet? Is the new story supposed to be that he became that powerful because of the amulet? While it would clear up that question SM raised, I wouldn't like it because I know Kahn got his power through absorbing the energy from all of the realms he conquered...also, it would kind of take away from him saying that he got his power from some artifact rather than having it himself.

As for Quan Chi and Shinnok, they WILL need very lenghty bios in order to fill up the plotholes seeing as how the whole game seems to revolve around them. Yeah, way too many problems with the plot right now that have to be addressed. Of course, they have quite a few people working for them and characters that appeared in the Netherrealm portion of Armagedon's Konquest so Quan Chi's and Shinnok's bios may not neccessarily need to be long, just tie up all of the loose ends made by Sareena, Noob, Smoke, Kintaro, Sheeva, Havik, Li Mei, and Daegon.

Speaking of plotholes, what about that scenario in which Kahn's minions come back from the dead so long as he's still alive? If there is such a spell, then what's Mileena's story in UMK3/MKT and MKGold? If she was to come back and serve Shao Kahn, then how did she end up in the Netherrealm serving Shinnok? My guess is that Shao Kahn considered her more of a daughter (As pointed out by her UMK3 ending...) and didn't give her the title "minion," thusly excluding her from the spell. Or maybe Shinnok was powerful enough to overcome the spell and claimed Mileena for his own...of course, if he could take any of Kahn's minions, why settle for Mileena. Maybe the good ones weren't dead or something. I know they just came up with the resurection thing but I think they could have come up with something a little better for Shang Tsung's revival from Deception than something potentially riddled with plotholes.

also,sub-zero's name has changed from person 2 person,making it sooooooooooo fu#@ing hard 2 follow!

n00b-Saibot: Actually, it's up to John Vogel when it comes to the storyline. Someone has to go to him with the right questions. If not, well...then we'll never get our answers.

As for things like why Shao Kahn has the Amulet, I have no idea. You'd think that if he did, he could've used it to enter Earthrealm, and he may have even been powerful enough to take on Raiden as well as the other Elder Gods and that with the Amulet, he most likely would've crushed Liu Kang.

About Mileena's resurrection in her MK3 story, I think that she either didn't make the same pledge Shang Tsung did, or Shinnok allowed Mileena's resurrection to take place as she was part of his plan.



No....

If you can't type anything intelligible, don't bother coming here to post. No one needs annoying n00bs like you to spam the boards.

fuck u man!,we come up here 2 talk about scorpion kicking sub-zeros ass,not being intelligeble!fuck!

Scorpion, would beat Subzero, instanly.

There are countless number of threads that has the exact same topic lol.

sooooooooooo true

i love the idea of a never ending gory fight i mean the one controls the fire the other the element of ice i mean ying and yang you know? i'd would be ́very nice to see in mk9 some rivalitys like scorp and sub or kano and sonja etc some special effects or insultings during the fights that would be awesome

I think they would both probably win...

There will always be something to interfer their long fight. So... no winner!

But hey, anyway, Johnny Cage beat both of them in is new movie:

Johnny Cage: Cool as Fire

See ya!

The point is moot.

This is about who is your favourite fighter, not who would win decided objectively.

On another note, how many times had Scorpion his ass handed to him? If Quan Chi can acid moat kick him to oblivion then chances are pretty high for anyone in the roster.

Well, I don't know about that. Quan Chi is a pretty powerful character. Canonically, in a straight-up fight, he has proven to defeat Scorpion, Shang Tsung and some of Earth's most powerful protagonists (although we don't know who exactly he fought in Deadly Alliance). We also know that he and Shang took it to Raiden.

But as for how I would rank the Sub-Zeros and Scorpions of the world, here is how I would do it (from strongest to weakest):

Sub-Zero V + Dragon Medallion/Elder Gods' Champion Scorpion/Noob Saibot
Sub-Zero IV
Scorpion
Sub-Zero V
Hanzo Hasashi

Okay, this might take some explaining. Hanzo Hasashi got killed by Sub-Zero IV fairly easily. Both were on a mission, they fought, and Hanzo lost. The older Sub-Zero brother then fought Scorpion in the fucking Netherrealm and killed him, while Scorps was looking for revenge. Sorry, but Scorpion really doesn't have an excuse there. This incarnation of Sub-Zero, however, was the more corrupt of the two, and obviously was more inclined to be arrogant and think of himself as a "special warrior." This allowed Scorpion to defeat him using cunning the next time they fought. That's right, I consider it lucky that Scorpion defeated the older Sub-Zero.

Scorpion defeated the younger Sub-Zero in MK4. I think the edge would have been his experience there, but Sub-Zero was in his brother's shadow at this point, if having a quality to his soul that would allow him to survive and not fall into the same traps his brother did. When Sub-Zero defeated Sektor (what might have been considered a bit of an upset, and shows Sub-Zero's growth as a warrior), he attained the Dragon Medallion which enhanced his powers. Sub-Zero V is only getting stronger and stronger with this. Now, while we don't really have evidence of this, as younger Sub and Scorps are yet to fight since, I think Sub-Zero's powers are growing at a much stronger rate than Scorpion's at around the Deadly Alliance point in the story.

Now, while I cannot remember if the story said that Scorpion gained power when the Elder Gods chose him to be their Champion; it doesn't really make sense for them to choose him. Unless they wanted a dumb, easily manipulated foot soldier. But let's say the Elder Gods did juice up Scorps a bit. You have to assume the Elder Gods would at least put him on par with some medallion which supes people up.

I think a fight between Scorpion and Sub-Zero right now would be interesting. I'll throw Noob Saibot in there, too, because if Scorpion got more powerful through his "undeadening" (for lack of a better term), surely Noob did, as well. Saibot has defeated Goro in the past, and served as a sub-boss. I think his power is pretty well established canonically. Right now, I think a three-way battle between the three could be awesome. Scorpion using powers lent from Heaven, Saibot using powers lent from Hell, and Sub-Zero using powers discovered by man.