They should have put to rest Ermac.

Matt

That wouldn't have been any fun.

Well if Liu did dfeat kahn it couldn't have beeen easy. I find it hard to believe that Someone like Kang could beat Kahn. It must have been because he lost sindel, who was his foothold of the earth realm, and he was allowed to be driven back into Outworld easily. otherwise I think Kahn would have killed him.

A while ago, some unused bios for MKGold made it into a strategy guide or something - one had Baraka being brought back to life after Kung Lao's Hat Slice Fatality - and since it had not been in the game itself, it was not considered canon. However, if you look at the info for the MKGold Baraka & Mileena render, it states that his chest was bound together after Kung Lao's Fatality.

I honestly thought think that the only reason why Shao Kahn lost MK3-MKT to Liu Kang was because of the many traitors that abandoned him and turned on him and the interference of Raiden.

Kitana, Jade, Sindel, Sheeva, Rain, Ermac, Baraka, Mileena, and Shang Tsung all left Shao Kahn towards the end when Edenia and Earthrealm began to press back Outworld from their invaded realms. Shao Kahn's minions had also turned on each other and killed each other.

All of Shao Kahn's loyal companions were either killed in battle or unable to fight due to injurys or defeat in combat. Reptile was beaten down by Jade and Kitana, Kintaro was thought to have been killed by Raiden in MK2, Motaro was killed by Sheeva, Noob Saibot was nowhere to be seen at the time, and Kano was defeated by Sonya.

I think Shao Kahn's grasp on multiple realms were too much for him without the support of his generals and greatest warriors. Shao Kahn's empire was severely weakened due to all of the deception under his nose and that was what led Liu Kang to defeat him in his weakened and troubled state of mind.

That makes a lot of sense. Interesting how MK3 was the original "Deception" ^_^

Actually the only reason why Kahn lost to kang was because Sindel's treachery allowed Kahn to break his hold over earth.

Like I said before Classic Sub-Zero from UMK3 has to be Shinnok. It makes logical sence. His ending said he was a warrior long missing from a previous MK, which mean UMK3 was his first true entrance, and one who would return in the next, so it has to be a new fighter from MK4. Let's eliminate the obvious Tanya, and go from there. You have Kai, Shinnok, Jarek, Reiko, Fujin, and Quan Chi. Let's eliminate the other obviouses. It could not be Kai, Jarek, Reiko, or Fujin. They wouldn't have the necessary powers to mimic Sub-Zero's powers. It has to be Quan Chi, or Shinnok. Quan Chi has white skin, and he is a sorcerer, but the skin would give him away as not being the one. Shinnok has to be the one. He mimics everyone else in MK4, and he would blend in well as a mortal. That is my theory but we'll never, ever know if it is true, or who that realy was.

You are oversimplifying things, but you still could be right.

Y'know, that makes sense. Raiden's war with Shinnok COULD be considered another MK tournament (Shinnok, an Elder God from the Heavens, WAS trying to take over Earth, another 'realm', and the war DID go on for centuries), and his mimickry of other fighter's moves is on par with Shang's morphs, if not better (since he IS a god).

However, I don't see why Quan Chi's skin color would make him less qualified for the deception than Shinnok. He IS a sorcerer, after all; he could just whip up a spell to disguise himself. Also, at this time, Shinnok was still stuck in the Netherealm, but Quan Chi was not. If anything, Quan Chi was the one behind the Classic Sub-Zero mask, helping Mileena and Noob to prepare the way for Shinnok's return.

We don't know if Reiko is still alive or not, but we know for sure Kahn is. And those quotes by Kahn himself and that dude in Chaosrealm confirm that the two are not the same. Of course, knowing Kahn, he used Reiko's fetish for his helmet to his advantage against the Deadly Alliance. I doubt Kahn would fully trust Shang Tsung, and especially Quan Chi, after his continuous defeats at the hands of Earth's warriors. He may have learned about Quan Chi's betrayal of Shinnok and feared for his life, hence allowing Reiko to pose as him when the two sorcerers sprang their attack. Remember, Kahn was a cautious tyrant, not want to overlook any minor detail that might pose a threat to his plans, so he surely would've known about any assassination attempts against him. With Reiko being so fascinated with wearing his helmet, he could've found the perfect decoy for any such attempts.

*shrugs* Just a thought. But now I think I've started another debate: now that we know for sure that Reiko and Kahn are two different people, did Kahn REALLY die at the hands of the Deadly Alliance? Or did he have Reiko pose as him during the attack?

Maybe that is true, but then:

True, but

How would Kahn know of the assassination attempt? It's not like Chi and Tsung took months to plan it out and involved a bunch of people. Chi went to meet Shang, they agreed to team and then they immediatly made the trip to Kahn's castle. Reptile saw this, but was unable to reach Kahn in time.

Also, if Kahn knew ahead of time and planned a decoy, why would he not let Reptile and Kano in on it? Kano was his general.

Konquest mentions that it was an epic fight and that Kahn nearly won. How could Reiko have pulled that off? Raiden couldn't beat them, but Reiko wearing a helmet can give them a rough time? No way.

Even if he did know ahead of time......why bother? What purpose is there to allow a decoy to be killed? If he knew they were coming, why not instead have Kano's forces attack them as soon as they arrive or spring some other kind of trap. It makes no sense for him to just give up and hide out while Reiko takes the fall. Before his death he was in the middle of a war with Kitana/Goro and had just recently won a major battle. Goro had just been killed. Things were on the up and up. He was starting to regain his power. The last thing he'd do was fake his death and go into hiding.

Very good points stated, however even Hitler had his decoys when he invaded France and was giving the allies a hard time. But you shut this down with the epic fight statment

True, but that big win also makes him a bigger target. It announces that he has finally started gaining whatever power he lost, and is becoming a significant threat, again.

However, as it's been learned in Deception, both Onaga AND Kahn were manipulated by the subconcious mind of the One Being, so perhaps allowing his double to die was part of the One Being's plan, all along?

Think about it: With Reiko dead, everyone will think Kahn is dead, and he is still needed by the One Being as backup if Onaga doesn't succeed. If everyone thinks your dead, then it'll be easier to go along with your master's plan, would it not? No one would be looking for you, no one would be hunting you down, worried about you returning. A quick costume change and 'poof', you can skate anong by your former subjects without them even recognizing you. Or, if they did, they'd just think their mind was playing tricks on them, because you're supposed to be dead.

Khan allowed his decoy to die to take the pressure off of him, so he could unknowingly do the One Being's work unfettered.

Grizzle:

Rain didn't betray Shao Kahn. He's still serving him in Konquest. So, Rain didn't betray him. He was still loyal. Then again, there are alot of questionable things in Konquest.

Ermac also stayed with Kahn. Kenshi set him free from Kahn in DA.

I'll leave Baraka out of this to avoid the old "MKT is NOT MK3! It's just a compilation!" argument.

Mileena, I agree.

ShangTsung also stayed with Kahn. When they lost, Shao Kahn threw him in a dungeon and tortured him. Eventually, after Shang Tsung helped him to rebuild his empire, Shao Kahn gave him his freedom. So, Tsung didn't betray either.

So, not ALL of his men betrayed. Some of them stayed loyal.

Shang Tsung stayed with Kahn? Uh...didn't he betray Kahn in Deady Alliance?

True there were a few people still loyal to Kahn before his untimely death (Reptile, Rain, Ermac before he was relesed by Kenshi), but far more of his followers abandoned and/or betrayed him: Shang Tsung, Sheeva, Noob Saibot (although, technically, he wasn't REALLY loyal to Kahn, in the first place), Mileena, Kitana, Sindel...the list goes on and on.

Shang Tsung stuck with Kahn all the way up to MKDA.

In MKDA, he betrayed him. But before that, he was with him all the way.

And Sheeva also betrayed Kahn. In fact, Kahn killed her. Remember? Kano tricks her into thinking he'd help her to kill Kahn, and then turns her in, and then Kahn shanks her?

Kahn almost beat the DA but Rayden couldn't. That's simple. Rayden wa sin Outworld where he is not at his strongest. I bet if the fight took place on Earth rayden could have won easy.

Another argument solved I just noticed:

Mileena and Baraka aren't lovers. They're just partners. I mean, they didn't show any emotion towards eachother in any ending. They're strictly partners and nothing more.

Even if they were lovers, it was obvious they didn't really love eachother.

I haven't read any of the MKD stories...but if Noob really is classic Sub, that doesn't mean UMK3/MKT Classic Sub isn't the original. If the basis is both Sub and Noob are in the game it doesn't matter because so are Human/Cyber Smoke, etc.