the mk3 time hope they bring that up.

the mk3 time hope they bring that up.

Johnny Cage dying then coming back then apparently seeking out Raiden to come back in MK 4. Should have left him dead

^That's not really a retcon then.

The biggest retcon I hate was Johnny Cage's death being completely overwritten. There were so many things they could have done with his ressurection plot, and he did need new storyline developments. For example, his cheating death in MKT could have corrupted his soul enough to enter MKD as Earth's big hope against Onaga. He can't have been any worse as a hero than Shujinko. There are other possibilities members of this board have come up with, but no, Vogel decided it simply didn't happen. Now he needs to explain what Johnny WAS doing in the time he was meant to be dead. Johnny Cage is my favourite character, and MK isn't the same without him, but he deserves far better than this.

Goro's MKD comeback from death was also handled badly, imo. He went from allying with Kitana to try and protect Edenia from Shao Kahn. Then in MKDA, we were told he'd been killed in a battle by Noob. If the GC version of MKD is canon, we're supposed to accept that Kahn then saved Goro's life, and Goro joined him again. Hasn't Goro got any self respect, whoring himself back to Kahn as soon as he's in trouble. Plus why would Shao Kahn choose to save someone who betrayed him fto join Kitana in the first place?

all those damn ressurections! it was stupid to bring back johnny cage, why? HE'S A DAMN PUNCHING BAG!!!!!!!!!! if sum1 dies, they stay dead! thats the rule of life! and they made it look stupid for MKT where they say he "cheated death" YEAH! ONLY ON THE FACT OF THE MERGER TAKING PLACE AT THE TIME!!!!! He shuld have just passed on anyway, how'd that stop him?

Well...what hasn't been said about Johnny Cage's non-death.

I hate the "Scorpion never vowed to protect Sub-Zero" thing. When Scorpion vows to protect Sub-Zero, it added a layer of depth and evolution to his character; showing that he wasn't just a mindless drone but a man of honor and principle. It later leads to MK3 where he is forced to chose between honoring his vow or joining Shao Kahn, which IMO was the high point of Scorpion's entire storyline.
Take that away and what are we left with? Scorpion, mindlessly chasing after Sub-Zero. No change, no depth, not even a question....just a revenge crazed jackass. And of course that leads to the question: how does Sub-Zero keep surviving these endless attacks from Scorpion? Apparently, Scorpion's been getting his ass kicked and killed EVERY TIME. So not only is Scorpion an idiot...he's incompetent.

Goro not being dead was also stupid and ill-conceived. His death was described in great detail, from being injured by Noob Saibot to Kitana staying by his side until he passed. It also gave his story proper closure and IMO, was a fitting and honorable end for his character.
But guess what true believers......that wasn't him! Shao Kahn healed him and that guy we thought was Goro was just some random Shokan with a messed up face. And it gets better, not only is Goro stil alive...he's working for Shao Kahn again.
So Goro's nicely described and honorable death, along with his sense of honor, duty, and friendship with Kitana was ALL just bullshit. In reality, Goro is just an oppurtunist who was waiting for a better deal.

I'm also a little disappointed that Kung Lao was apparently present during MK1, at least according to Shaolin Monks. I always found it interesting that Kung Lao DIDN'T fight in MK1 and always seemed to avoid fighting unless he had to.
It's a little thing, but disappointing nonetheless.


One retcon they haven't done, but I'm dreading they will do someday is pretend Kitana was never loyal to Shao Kahn and always knew he wasn't her father. Or she's been brainwashed the whole time.
Hell, they ruined Scorpion's story...why not ruin Kitana's too?

of course the one thing that sucks at the moment (i kno, it aint a retcon, but ya kno....), is a possible shao kahn ressuretion by havik (culd happen, but its speculation).

Well, I don't know if they retconned that. (Scorpion vowing to protect Sub-Zero thing) but if they did, then Vogel really needs to learn to leave continuity alone.

It's not official yet as far as I know. Hopefully, it never will be.

Ah good. Hopefully Shaolin Monks keeps this intact considering



So thus Scorpion and Sub-Zero's story of Scorpion learning that Sub-Zero is not the same guy who killed him and vowing to protect him to make up for it is left in. (if Shaolin Monks goes that far into MK2's story)

Also well I've always looked at this way between Scorpion and the original Sub-Zero. Scorpion is meant to be viewed as the "good guy" while Sub-Zero is the "bad guy". Scorpion is an honorable warrior, Sub-Zero is a cold-blooded killer. Both are "neutral", though Scorpion is neither truly good nor truly evil, while Sub-Zero is definately on the evil path. That's how I look at it.

Kitana found out LONG ago the truth of her past, way before MK2. I just hope MKSM doesn't make it out to be that she was brainwashed by Kahn the whole time and barely finds out now what she's up to. It's best they keep it the way it was always thought of - raise her to believe that Kahn was always her daddy, and only when she's 5,000 years old or so the truth comes to life to her. Man, that must've been harsh for her.

It's pretty much been made canon in MK Konquest that Scorpion never found out that Sub-Zero was the one he hated until MK4. So, he's always been after Subie since MK1 and MK2, barely stopped on MK4. I got no problem with that. It
s what I always thought anyway.

Cage dying, I ignore. Fuck it, it's a dead issue.

Goro's story in MKD was really forced, as was Shao Kahn's (oooh, let me pull out my magic clone maker from my utility belt too fool my enemies - geez, man, I hope they don't use "magic item" plot devices too much). But, hey, it's always interesting to see how the MK characters act and feel.

I hated how in MK4/G Liu Kang became the original Kung Lao's descendant. That part should've been left for Kung Lao only.

^Notice it says "ancestor" not "decendant" as far as I know, Liu Kang being the Great Kung Lao's descendant was only from the movies.

That whole Liu Kang is the "Great Kung Lao's ancestor" is funny for all the wrong reasons. They nicked a bit out of the films, in the process taking away from Kung Lao's character- and they couldn't even use the right term! Good job it's never come up again.

Why does everyone have such a big problem with the (current?) loss of the "Scorpion's vow" plot? It took a lot away from Scorpion IMO. I mean, there's this Japenese spectre- never what you'd call a "fun" guy- whose just killed the thief/assassin who once murdered him in cold blood. PLUS Scorpion believes the Lin Kuei responsible for the killing of Scorps' own wife, kid, and adopted family. And what happens? "Oh, I never knew Sub-Zero had a younger brother. Man, I feel so bad for killing that murdering thief, my longtime enemy, who slaughtered me; I'll look after his bro to make me feel better."
Utter crap!

I agree with all who mentioned the Kahn/Goro rubbishness that was inflicted on MKD-GC. But why does Cage's story in MKDA have to be a retcon? I see nothing that *contradicts* MK4- merely team MK poking fun at the storyline by it also turning up as a movie! And using Johnny "shallow" Cage to say his own adventures were much more exciting..

I'll explain the Johnny Cage situation to you Cloneofdan. John Vogel actually came out and said that his whole death and ressurection thing didn't happen at all. His excuse was that this was "bad writing on his movies", meaning Johnny was alive and well without ever having died. This was a very poor way to undo what for years had been considered a big part of Johnny Cage's character, that he had cheated death, then later become fully ressurected.

^^Because the vow makes Scorpion's story more interesting. Scorpion didn't have any beef with the rest of the Lin Kuei, just Sub-Zero, who he believed to not only be the man responsible for his death, but the death of his family and clan. Scorpion saw no honor in what Sub-Zero did... When Scorpion kills Sub-Zero in MK1, he doesn't find much satisfaction in it and when he hears Sub-Zero has apparently returned, he goes after him, but when he discovers that he is not the same guy who killed him, Scorpion feels that by protecting this new Sub-Zero, he can redeem himself for killing his older brother and when Quan Chi tells Scorpion that the younger one was involved during MK4. Scorpion is really pissed as he's been helping a man who was involved in the killing of his family and clan. So then when he beats him, he finds that Quan Chi is the true murderer. Quan Chi made Scorpion into what he has, made him kill a (mostly) innocent man. Scorpion's anger with Quan Chi runs deeper than either of the Sub-Zero brothers. Quan Chi took away his life, honor and soul. Read Xiau's Scorpion analysis for more information.

red_dragon:
"John Vogel actually came out and said that his whole death and ressurection thing didn't happen at all.His excuse was that this was "bad writing on his movies", meaning Johnny was alive and well without ever having died. "
That's...very, very silly. As you say, it's a poor thing to do to an established storyline. It's *not* one of the "what if?" endings, it's his whole MK4 story! Still, like I said, there's been nothing on-screen in the MKDA game (IIRC) that actually contradicts MK4, so...whatever's been said outside the game counts for very little, with me.
And by the way...if he dislikes the resurrection thang so much...MKDe anyone? Very strange.

ProudNintendofan:
"Because the vow makes Scorpion's story more interesting"
It certainly ADDS more to Scorpion's story. It *definitely* gives it a new direction and twist. But more interesting? Not to me, not at all- for the reasons I've already given: that this Hell-spawned spectre, whose sole purpose is revenge, basically feels a bit bad about killing his mortal enemy and one-time murderer! I mean...come on!

"Scorpion didn't have any beef with the rest of the Lin Kuei, just Sub-Zero, who he believed to not only be the man responsible for his death, but the death of his family and clan"
-I seem to recall the Shirai Ryu and the Lin Kuei being mortal, bitter, arch enemies. So Scorps would definitely have a problem with the Lin Kuei clan...

"When Scorpion kills Sub-Zero in MK1, he doesn't find much satisfaction in it and when he hears Sub-Zero has apparently returned, he goes after him"
-Why wouldn't he get much satisfaction out of it? We don't know either way, to be honest (though personally I lean towards him thinking 'good, the bastard's dead').
But the fact that he goes after Sub-Zero again, to make sure he stays *dead*, says a lot to me about his feelings not having changed much.

"but when he discovers that he is not the same guy who killed him, Scorpion feels that by protecting this new Sub-Zero, he can redeem himself for killing his older brother "
-Again...why does he need redemption? He's exacted revenge, in time-honoured (especially Japanese) fashion. He's killed his own murderer, his personal rival. A man he hated so much he rose from the pits of Hell to go after!

"when Quan Chi tells Scorpion that the younger one was involved during MK4. Scorpion is really pissed as he's been helping a man who was involved in the killing of his family and clan"
-Apart from the helping Subz part- I completely agree. I still maintain that, in MKII, Scorpion discovered Subz wasn't the old Sub-Zero and spared his life (as Subz has previously spared an opponent of his own). This validates Sub-Zero's ending in MKII, and doesn't have the lame "guilt" part of Scorpion's ending.
And then, in MK4, Scorpion's obviously changed his mind about Subz for some reason- maybe his blind need for revenge finally outweighed his temporary sparing of Subzero, maybe Quan Chi pulled him aside and said "Actually, that guy there..." who knows.

We'll never know, til an MKSM-style game for MK4 comes out

Good talking with you

Well Scorpion pleaded for mercy before the original Sub-Zero killed him, but it was refused... Scorpion then heard (source unknown, probably Quan Chi) that Sub-Zero and the Lin Kuei masscred his family and clan. This Scorpion knew was dishonorable, Scorpion was then beaten again, realizing that he had no honor left and he knew there was no honor in his killing Sub-Zero, he probably thought that by protecting the younger Sub-Zero, he could regain his honor...

Scorpion left Subz alone because he had no vengance to claim on him, just quan-chi as far as i culd tell.

In regards to that last part, that's exactly what they did.... I can imagine how pissed you got that now they've ruined both Scorpion and Kitana's story. The only way I can see them redeem themselves for Shaolin Monk's contradicting story is by declaring it non-canon. Then again, unfortunately, it looks like the MK Team is saying that SM is to be considered canon.

I hate how they retcon/make fun of Cage's deaths in MKDA only to have him die and then come back to life in the opening of MKD. That is so dumb it's almost comical.

Kahn's treatment post MK3 has been horrible and has done nothing but ruin his legacy. In MK4 he is barely mentioned at all and seemingly dead. Then in MKDA they say he was "weakened" after MK3 and write it as if that was something we had always known even though like years passed between MK3 and MKDA. Then he dies and it's a focal point of the story. Now he's back. An excellent example of the utter lack of consequence in the story.

Speaking of that I HATE it when they just add details or whatever as if it was always like that. A retcon is one thing but this really annoys me. An example of what I'm talking about is the tarkatan horde stuff in MKD. In MKDA Baraka was basically nonexistent and we didn't see a single member of his race and there was absolutely no mention of them working for the Deadly Alliance. MKD starts up and they're right there as their head minions and a huge part of the story as if they had been from the beginning. WTF? How stupid does Vogel think we are? It didn't even serve a greater purpose either. The DA already had enough minions and they could have easily just had Baraka hook up with Onaga on his own after MKDA but before MKD started. It was also odd how they spent so much time building up the unbeatable army of the dragon king only to write them off in like a minute and then give such a hardsell to the tarkatan horde. Who actually buys the horde as a real threat anyway? These guys have been hanging around with the bad guys since MK II. They're losers. Cronies. Peons. They're like those guys with red pants and black masks in the MK movies. Stryker could beat up like 50 of them. Nobody takes them seriously. They're token bad guys to beat up before you actually fight the real villain. Yet suddenly in MKD we're supposed to take them as this huge deal. Whatever. They've been around for years. Nobody cares.

Right.....so yeah the tarkatans are lame.