I was a little kid then but MK3/UMK3 were popular in my area.Personally if I had to pick between UMK3 and MK2 for a tournament I would pick UMK3.

I think it had to do with the fighting engine there where alot of people that didnt know how to use the run button properly.And there was no masked ninja's no scorpion which made alot kids angry and also poor stryker always gets a bum rap because he had no supernatural powers and hes not a ninja.Theres tons of stuff i cant even think of right now lets say the average mk fan wanted gimmicks galore.

People were expecting more of the same in terms of fatalities, gore, characters, they were disappointed with how it was presented, and the new cast.

A fraction of the fans who actually played MK2 for competition, stuck around and learned MK3. When UMK3 came out a lot of the MK2 fans jumped back on to play as their favs, but were completely out of the loop in terms of competition, because that's what MK was about now, not cool look fatalities, it was the game itself that made us come back. These MK2ers couldn't beat anyone cause the game was so different and they never learned MK3 which was like a stepping stone to UMK3, and therefore couldn't do fatalities to anyone even if they wanted to. I remember time when peoeple would often request fatalities upon the instant they lose, and this is an obvious sign of an MK2 junkie who couldn't make the transition. It's really got a lot to do with psychology, and I have a lot of experience from back when the game was big to work with.

There's no reason to like MK2's gameplay more unless you can admit you're a less advanced player, in which case they have no right to say UMK3 sucks. I think if UMK3 had somehow been able to be released as MK3, it would have been far more popular than MK2.

Matt

Well that's the thing. I was 9 or so, so I have no idea how popular mk3 / umk3 were. I'm only going on what I've heard, that they didn't reach the popularity heights that MK2 did. And looking in hindsight, it seems kinda stupid, since Umk3 is far better imo. Not saying that ppl didn't like them / play them (just go on mame - umk3 is still played) but even there MK2 seems to be more prevalent.

And if u read the end of my starter post, I'm sure it's not much a surprise that I'd go for a Umk3 touney too...

So psyclobex and MK2KB, according to you guys UMK3 was a victim of MK3?

Meaning that they kinda shot themselves in the foot in a number of ways with the release of MK3. They probably overhyped it (the same fate that MK4 received) and did not please the fans of the series so far by giving them what they wanted - even though it was probably better they made the transition from fluff to substance. It does make sense that UMk3 woulda been more popular had MK3 not been released. It stands to reason, seeing as how the gameplay was excellent and the favourite characters (and as psychoblex said - ninjas!) had returned. Therefore those looking for a competative game got one, and those looking for the colourful ninjas got that too - so they woulda pleased everyone, and appealed to a wider fanbase.

I also think the fact that MK2 players came back to Umk3 after skipping out on MK3, got worked cus they were so far behind at that point and then asked to see the fatalities is hilarious! That's just golden...

And if Umk3 was indeed a victim of MK3, then why did Midway / the MK team release MK3 in the first place? It seems pretty common knowledge for most somewhat hardcore MK fans that UMK3 was the original MK3 - I mean this screen: is proof that they were still going to release Umk3, and hints that it was the original plan.

So why shoot themselves in the foot in terms of hurting the MK image? Was it money related - knowing that they'd release both in hopes of doubling revenue...or was their fierce competition, so MK3 was rushed to release early to compete. It just seems like a bad business move on Midway's part, or perhaps one that just backfired...

They made more money off MK3 and UMK3 combined than they would have with just UMK3.

Matt

I know personally, I always used to say I liked MK2 best because it was the game that got me into the series in the first place but honestly the game I had the most fun with was UMK3 on my sega saturn. I really wish they would have included it in MAT2 but whatever. Back on topic for me UMK3 was the high of the MK series. From MKT on I just never had the same level of interest.

When it came to MK there were always players and Looky-Loos. The looky-loos put their quarters in but they never really got into the gameplay. They fought to see a fatality or some other goriness. MK3 came out and the over the top fatalities were poking fun at the drive so many MK fans had towards the game, gore and violence. I think a lot of fans realized how stupid it was to be into a game because of the violence. Those looky-loos that stuck around still begged for fatalities, but never got into the deeper, more interesting gameplay of MK3 and later UMK3.

I remember when MK3 and later UMK3 came out because I used to spend summers at the Jersey shore, and there were always machines but sadly very few people to play against. It was like all of a sudden MK had a learning curve and everyone got frightened off. Typical americans...

Looky Lous still exist, when I went to 8 on the Break recently (an arcade in NJ that has a UMK2 machine) my friend of mine came along to video tape some matches, and he would make comments on why we don't do fatalities, or request to see certain ones, even though he has the ability to recognize good and bad players. He played MK1 and MK2 in the arcade and on SNES and Genesis, but never wanted to play people, just against the computer cause he never wanted to learn how to beat people, he would just get mad at losing and throw the controller. I wish he had gotten into it because he likes playing Twisted Metal 2 mostly against the computer in co-op, but it was a game that other friends, including DreemerNJ, and another friend of ours got into, and we all played against eachother, so it was either don't play at all, or play us. I think had he given it some time he would have made the transition from MK2 all the way to UMK3 and probably would still be playing it. Fortunately with Kaillera, I have been able to find now almost 30 serious UMK3 players, and also, and I find this to be almost fate level, a guy I work with happened to be as into MK as I am when I met him about 5 1/2 years ago, if not moreso, and brought my skill level up to the point where I had to find even better people to get any better from there, and those people apparently do not exist anywhere but Chicago.

Imagine 2 people, who didn't grow up together like DreemerNJ and myself, not only living in the same time zone, the same state, the same county, the same town, but working at the same job, and are both die hard UMK3 players, never met eachother when the game was big, but 5 years later. This is a game where I have to rely on other STATES and even countries for at least one player in terms of competition.

Represented on Kaillera that I know of right now for UMK3 is:

NJ
Utah
Michigan
PA
Chicago (it's its own state ya know)
NY
Florida
Cali
Virginia
Georgia
Canada
Belgium
Germany
Venezuela
A few other European countries
Quite possibly many other states, but I don't know exactly where everyone is from.

So as you can see, it's a nearly global effort to pull people together for UMK3.

Matt

MK3 has been one of the very few times the MK team has listened to their fans, and the only aspect on that was the Run button. That helped a lot since MK was now a much more in-your-face game. Ed Boon even said himself that because people complained about MK2 being a slow game, that button was made to speed it up, and this was before the message boards that somehow didn't help after MKDA. The run meter is also helpful in preventing rushdowns, holding of someone for a split second if it gets empty.

As to why MK3/UMK3 wasn't as popular as MK2, that actually depends on where you were. Since I lived on a military base on Okinawa, competition was never really a "shrink / grow" thing. I have seen 20 people crowded at a UMK3 machine before. I cannot say the same for MK2, but only because I didn't know about MK2 until after GamePro got console images for the home system versions.

MK3's graphics were slightly downgraded from MK2's a little bit pixelated and dry, but they fixed that pretty well with UMK3. Looked much clearer. MK3's soundtrack is also Dan Forden's peak. MK4, MKDA, and MKD combined can't touch that DCS sound.

MK3's gameplay would mostly be considered to have been hindered by not the Run button, but by the command combo system. Now to be fair, if MK's current engine had been set up like MK3's as far as command combos go, that would have made the game a hell of a lot less broken than it is now. With MK3's, if your combo was blocked, your opponent was pushed away enough and you were allowed to instantly recover to guard. I don't know how balanced you would consider the rewards for each charcater. Example being Kabal getting a free 7-8 hit combo off his spin dash, though block the dash and it's his ass. However when UMK3 came out, they added the jump punch as an opener, and it many people's eyes, that broke the game. That punch is enough to give some characters like Jax and Sonya 50%+ damage opportunity.

MK3's character roster suffered major hits, another reason it could be considered less popular. Characters with ties to MK3's storyine (which is the best and darkest of the series) were cut out: Scorpion, Reptile, Kitana, ect. You can blame Daniel Pesina and the actors who sued Midway after MK2 for that. What we got instead were the cyber-ninjas, who people say made no sense. How did the Lin Kuei, recluse Chinese ninjas, suddenly get the financial means to afford a laboratory to perform cybernetics on people? The only saving graces to this were that Smoke and Cyrax retained their souls, setting up a side rivalry between Cyrax and Sektor, but then they killed that off. Aside from them, the other characters had a reason for being there, including Stryker and Nightwolf. However their designs were sort of "off", not being close to how they should look to be considered serious, thus people started question wether Midway was taking the game's roots serious.

Now, wether you want to believe it or not, the Fatalites being toned down had a good deal to do with MK3's lower popularity as well. Blood and violence being a "norm" is really no excuse, as it wasn't really a "norm" at all. At the time, only 4 mainstream games had excessive blood: Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Blood Storm, and Samurai Shodown, though Samurai Shodown's was accepted from the start as it was based on sword arts in the ancient world. And even if it had been a "norm", a competative instinct should've kicked in and said to make MK3's fatalites better than the other games. That doesn't mean to make excessive gore though. But they could've done better. Most fatalites don't even match the character (arcade machine dropping, growing to immense size, someone floating up from an inflated head, Kabal does not breathe helium, his voice is not that high), and impossible results (arms floating beside a halved body, 4 ribcages, 10 legs, 3 skulls from an explosion And how often did you see an Animality performed (granted you felt your Animality first)? Not many people find playing UMK3 motivating to finish a match if you can't be rewared to a "fatality" that's not worthy of being called a "fatality". If UMK3 had MK2's fatalities, they'd have themselves a show. Unfortunately, the gameplay and fatalites have both gone to Hell in a hand basket from there.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think MK3 and UMK3 are bad games, they're better than MK2, but instead of improving the game as a whole they improved one aspect (be it the main aspect), and downgraded the parts that they had done well in MK2. That's gonna be your main reason for MK3 / UMK3 being not as popular.

Matt, play me sometime. My ass is bored.

I think it was the fact that MK2 came together better. It also had more of a mysterious and imaginative feel to it. MK3 and UMK3 returned to the earthy settings and characters more while MK2 was based in Outworld and didn't have to follow a certain look as it was all thought up. UMK3 was good, had more characters, faster and everything, but I have to also say I would rather play MK2 anyday. It remains my favorite.

Everything the Purp said is absolutely true. The only thing I would have to say is UMK3 is exactly how they wanted it/invisioned it, and now, it's more than that. The gameplay was exploited by the fans, even though they knew with MK3 they had something better with run and combos, a more solid juggle system, damage system etc, I don't think they fully realized its potential, and fortunately a handful of players, (literally) took it to that level.

Just PM me sometime and we'll set something up for Kaillera.

Matt

i didn't like them as much cause raiden was gone

I thought the games keept getting better Mk1 < MK2 < uMK3/T

Yea thats true until mk4 came then its been all downhill from there 3-d mk doesnt work why cant the mkteam see that.

UMK3 might still have some hope yet for new comp. I know Boon has said on many occasions it's his favorite MK. So perhaps that's why it's being held off on MAT's because he might want online play for it. If that's the case, I know many of us would be happy. I know it's easy to say "kaillera kaillera kaillera" but that only targets a very niche crowd. I doubt most MK fans know what Mame is yet alone how to use it. Going online for console would be tits and would bring in a lot of new people.

Anyway, UMK3 wasn't as popular as MK2 for artificial reasons. As already stated. It's superior in gameplay but people don't care about that lol.

I think its cuz MK2 was so simple to learn how to play compared to MK3s combos and stuff like that. it took alot more to be good at MK3 and that probably drove half-way fans away from the game...my thoughts

SaDo

reason no. 1 is of course:
Mk II was available for :
Amiga,arcades,Pc,SNES,Genesis,PSX.. etc...
many peoples have amigas when MKII was released...
UMK3 was available for:
:) go to arcades or buy saturn

And if you buy Saturn you are no longer playing UMK3 as it was intended to be played.

Matt

Time, money and to keep arcade owners happy and give fans a reason to continue playing at the arcade after the home version is out.

The original plan was that they'd do MK3 in April then release the home versions in fall and at the same time do UMK3 which would be arcade exclusive. So you'd be able to play MK3 at home, but you'd have to keep spending money at the arcade.



Besides what everyone else has said, another reason MK3 didn't do as well was the birth of 3D fighters. In 95 you had Tekken 2, VF 2 and Toshiden in the fall.

Really good point, I hadn't thought of that. Actually, shortly after UMK3 came out I stumbled across Soul Edge and subsequently Soul Blade for PSX (in 97 I think) and that stole some of MK's thunder since I could play Soul Blade in 1 player mode and enjoy it.

I thought the actors were a nice touch to the game, especially when they improved their costumes in MK3/UMK3/MKT.

for me MK I design is best ever , without any robots , technology, cops , bombs and many many things... game really looks like old tournament , and the forget about Test Your Might until Deception... shame
Oh and without so many graphics retouching on characters and stages...
MK should be with digital characters only... and forever...

All very well thought-out points.

Ya know, if I had been introduced to MK1, MKII, and then UMK3, I would have felt disppointed in UMK3. Getting to experience MK3 first was good. I think a major part of it for me was the fact that there were no good intro/ending pics in UMK3 (obviously there wasn't enough memory to give each pallette swap their own cool looking bio/ending pics) so they re-used the VS. screen sprites instead. And it was cool that they did that, because they had to, but it was just one other area that was a "step down" from the older MK games (although this was a step down from MK3 to UMK3).

Also, MK3 had only 1 ending pic, while MK1 and MK2 (and now, MKDA and MKD) have at least 2 pics per ending. While some people are probably thinking "So? All I care about is gameplay", what makes MK what it is is more than JUST the pure engine, it's the story, plethora of images and pictures, atmosphere, etc.