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A must read for potential members of this community
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posted07/22/2007 12:59 AM (UTC)by
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eazytobeat
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04/05/2006 02:29 AM (UTC)
What's up everyone.

Over time, this community has become a pretty tight knit group of skillfull players. It's a group that plays by the same 'unwritten code' for the highest quality games and to have the most enjoyable experience from a new player's quest from advancing from 'outside' status, to skilled, to highly skilled, to elite.

I would like this post to contain discussion on points that drive that person from one status to the next. in other words, to identify what 'outside' players (those that don't follow the gameplay of this community, 'everyone else' in other words) have in common that keep them from advancing to any significant skill level, what those folks who are at a good skill level have in common, what those highly skilled have in common, and what 'elite' have in common.

I think this will help those who are coming here understand how to strive to improve their game, making for more and better competition for all of us.

There are a bunch of different topics that can be discussed here, like using kaks, using bosses, air cancels and 33's, roster size, using only high tiers, and so on, but i would like to cover one at time and then edit this original post with the next topic.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

first off, how about the subject of Rank? of course we all know about the 'outside' players who deliberately avoid playing stronger players just to not show losses on their record (or ego:p) but what about those that feel that since games aren't 'fair' than they won't take on the challenge?

for example i had a player WHO NOW COMES TO THE FORUMS (we'll keep anonymous) with a strong record (maybe 3 times more wins than losses) go to "no" after 1 match and "no" again after 2 more matches. I know what you all are thinking: "Rankwhore" immediately comes mind, but since this person is moving from 'outside' status to 'good skill' status, i figured i would share with you some of his reasoning and let you all comment to help build this player.

anonymous Wrote:
I would keep playing you, But i got this thing. If i don't win here and there i don't keep playing. Because it's gonna end in a loss all the time. Maybe i should just stick to playing ppl my skill level.


what kind of advice would you give a player who wants to play quality games but thinks this way?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, next topic...

how newcomers reading this (or anyone for that matter) using characters like Moloch, Blaze, and Onaga? how about Kintaro and Goro? Shao Khan and Motaro? what diferentiates these characters from others, if at all?
if you look down upon using some of these characters, why? if you encourage it, why? does it help or harm your game?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, third topic...

ROSTER SIZE. when i started playing Deception on a more serious level (wasn't at the boards yet), i noticed that most of everyone i played were good with maybe 2 or 3 characters. maybe a few more. it wasn't until i played 2 guys that really impressed me that would crush me beyond belief without ever picking a character a second time. the guys I'm talking about were Asmodeus MK O and Alexei09. i would just watch in amazement as they would just keep picking what seemed to be random characters, I would always wait to see when they would repeat, and i could easily get crushed 10-15 times or more with no repeated characters. I started to model myself after that, and i noticed that there was a whole new dynamic to games with guys like these, it's like it's not just about winning, but seeing who backs out of the challenge of leaving behind their 'sure fire' characters and taking a risk with someone who they might not be as good with (or they might still be awesome with, that's the thing that made it interesting- how long could one go without losing performance levels?). from then on i made that challenge to myself, and i've noticed that a bunch of players here have begun to do the same.
examples:
Gerchap Wrote:
sorry I repicked characters I played to win, its a WARfurious

Pig of the Hut Wrote:
what's the deal with repeating characters. I always like full rosters so if you re pick i'll do the same.
etc.
does this improve your game? how so? does it hurt your game? how so? do you feel an extra sense of competition regarding roster size when playing your opponent?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks for all the posts. btw, if you want to continue to discuss about the first topic, that's fine, i would just suggest to start your post with what subject you are talking about.

example:

"About avoiding losses...

........................................
.........................................."

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Check
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 •07/17/2007 12:14 AM (UTC) •
0
eazytobeat Wrote:
What's up everyone.

Over time, this community has become a pretty tight knit group of skillfull players. It's a group that plays by the same 'unwritten code' for the highest quality games and to have the most enjoyable experience from a new player's quest from advancing from 'outside' status, to skilled, to highly skilled, to elite.

I would like this post to contain discussion on points that drive that person from one status to the next. in other words, to identify what 'outside' players (those that don't follow the gameplay of this community, 'everyone else' in other words) have in common that keep them from advancing to any significant skill level, what those folks who are at a good skill level have in common, what those highly skilled have in common, and what 'elite' have in common.

I think this will help those who are coming here understand how to strive to improve their game, making for more and better competition for all of us.

There are a bunch of different topics that can be discussed here, like using kaks, using bosses, air cancels and 33's, roster size, using only high tiers, and so on, but i would like to cover one at time and then edit this original post with the next topic.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

first off, how about the subject of Rank? of course we all know about the 'outside' players who deliberately avoid playing stronger players just to not show losses on their record (or ego:p) but what about those that feel that since games aren't 'fair' than they won't take on the challenge?

for example i had a player WHO NOW COMES TO THE FORUMS (we'll keep anonymous) with a strong record (maybe 3 times more wins than losses) go to "no" after 1 match and "no" again after 2 more matches. I know what you all are thinking: "Rankwhore" immediately comes mind, but since this person is moving from 'outside' status to 'good skill' status, i figured i would share with you some of his reasoning and let you all comment to help build this player.

[QUOTE=anonymous]I would keep playing you, But i got this thing. If i don't win here and there i don't keep playing. Because it's gonna end in a loss all the time. Maybe i should just stick to playing ppl my skill level.[/QUOTE]

what kind of advice would you give a player who wants to play quality games but thinks this way?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

next topic coming soon.


1) i dont think you should be telling people how to play even if the majority of people all play it a certain way. aka mutual respect, and a real community with no bullshit.

2) i dont think you should be making threads about all things that have been discussed and solved already, let a person find it for themselves, or expierience it, unless you are trying to change to way people think. let them post when they have a question about something.

3) if someone wants to quit after 3 games 4 games 10 games, its their choice, they pay for online, they can do whatever they want, they dont have to play the way you want.

4) if they dont play because the game isnt fair, its probably because the lag is severly lopsided, anything else, including bosses, is all fair game.

and its just that, a game.

dont make people feel bad about the way they play

dont make people feel like they should of played you to this and that and used this and that character.

as for 33 and ac, it has been beaten to the ground since mkevolution, if you dont like it, then dont play with them. but dont knock someone else for using if they think it is right.

last but not least, a player like myself, who wasnt always the best, but now is. WHO STEPPED UP HIS GAME ALL BY HIMSELF.

have the will to win, and do whatever it takes to do so, and you will become a quality better, theres noone who can do that for you but yourself, and the will to want to be the best.

you will know when you succeed.

oh yea, online is trash, and doesnt prove anything, play offline with real priority instead of 2 people hitting each other at the same time,and the hits trading off with each other instead of one player getting priority. along with the huge lagwall in between players, that makes it impossible to each someone. ( usually one-sided )

theres not one person my 3 in shotokan hits mid for, but every single person, ( including red ) when they do it to me, it hits mid everytime. and this is the main reason why i dont play this game online anymore, im always at a disadvantage, no matter who i play, yet, people want to play me because im the best. see what i mean? online = pointless, and stop making a big deal about it EVERYONE, and just have fun and dont care about how good you are, youve been playing the same engine since 2003, you should know by now. its time for something new.

and noone enjoys losing, but more then likely, they lost because of the connection unless they truly suck at the game or it was a mismatch between characters which mka excels in.

peace
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krayziebonethug
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www.TestYourMight.com
 •07/17/2007 12:25 AM (UTC) •
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check what happened back on the ps2 forum means nothing . just look back at who was arguing it all . weak players . everyone is gone . thats all it was .


you made a point about them finding their gameplay on their own . well i dont have a comp but eazy if you can copy paste what i wrote on mkac it be great . thank you .



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eazytobeat
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 •07/17/2007 01:27 AM (UTC) •
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No prob Bone...

krayziebonethug Wrote:
ive been waiting for this type of discussion for a long time .

the skill level comes from ones experience over time .


one of these is understanding the game and accepting ones flaws . there are things you can teach a skilled player to become elite over time but cant teach a player of lesser skill untill that player reaches a certain point . saying that = and as an example shujinkydink = needs to change mentality therefore opening his gameplay for the better . once there he can get ready to learn more.

when your mentality changes , a player is more aware on how to win . but then stumbles over a question when fighting elites . =


WTF AM I DOING WRONG ??!!


well this comes from not being experienced enough for the next level .

this is about when a player begins to learn to adapt slow down a bit analyze and see things clearer . at this point its up to the player to find these skills .



" ill leave this discussion here for now . im not on a comp and my psp limits my writing "

peace



nice post check. all of your points are valid- but mostly for resonding to a post written in the context that i think you believe i wrote this in, and if that's the case, then you've missed the spirit of my post. it's designed to help folks, not make them feel bad. i was criticized a lot in deception for not playing to 'my full potential' because i didn't use fts or otgs and i argued back and criticized those who did.

In my case today though, like you said, let people play however they want to, bosses, kak, and all, as i enjoy the challenge. but since the majority likes to play games that are considered more serious (balanced), I'll continue with the flow by conributing with my little post here.

anyway, eventually i got better because i looked for the right srategies and started to model the stronger players while implementing my own techniques. so i agree that one SHOULD find it for himself, but where did someone like me have the best chance of doing so? Practice mode? of course not, i found it online getting crushed and learning from my mistakes, while taking bits and pieces of the mentality of those stronger than me to form my own (remember as terrible as it seems, we ARE talking about online here, hence why offline was great for learning neat combos and new characters, but nothing like learning from experience on the 'battle field'). and, like me, there have been and still are many others; there are too many testimonies to support all this to contradict it, at least on the xbox side.

i believe that BECAUSE this community 'recruits' and helps develop other players that are identified to have potential, is the reason that this group continues to thrive and grow. it's a good problem to have when you can barely keep up with the posts at 2 different websites and it's a breath of fresh air seeing more and more quality players (veterans from here and new 'recruits' alike) playing online.

that being said, I'll be quiet now and let you all discuss as to not lose the topic so quickly. thx!
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Pighut
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a>OWG-OVERLORD :Pig Of The Hut: www.pighut.com: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=pighut

 •07/17/2007 02:42 AM (UTC) •
0
Check Wrote:
eazytobeat Wrote:
What's up everyone.

Over time, this community has become a pretty tight knit group of skillfull players. It's a group that plays by the same 'unwritten code' for the highest quality games and to have the most enjoyable experience from a new player's quest from advancing from 'outside' status, to skilled, to highly skilled, to elite.

I would like this post to contain discussion on points that drive that person from one status to the next. in other words, to identify what 'outside' players (those that don't follow the gameplay of this community, 'everyone else' in other words) have in common that keep them from advancing to any significant skill level, what those folks who are at a good skill level have in common, what those highly skilled have in common, and what 'elite' have in common.

I think this will help those who are coming here understand how to strive to improve their game, making for more and better competition for all of us.

There are a bunch of different topics that can be discussed here, like using kaks, using bosses, air cancels and 33's, roster size, using only high tiers, and so on, but i would like to cover one at time and then edit this original post with the next topic.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

first off, how about the subject of Rank? of course we all know about the 'outside' players who deliberately avoid playing stronger players just to not show losses on their record (or ego:p) but what about those that feel that since games aren't 'fair' than they won't take on the challenge?

for example i had a player WHO NOW COMES TO THE FORUMS (we'll keep anonymous) with a strong record (maybe 3 times more wins than losses) go to "no" after 1 match and "no" again after 2 more matches. I know what you all are thinking: "Rankwhore" immediately comes mind, but since this person is moving from 'outside' status to 'good skill' status, i figured i would share with you some of his reasoning and let you all comment to help build this player.

[QUOTE=anonymous]I would keep playing you, But i got this thing. If i don't win here and there i don't keep playing. Because it's gonna end in a loss all the time. Maybe i should just stick to playing ppl my skill level.[/QUOTE]

what kind of advice would you give a player who wants to play quality games but thinks this way?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

next topic coming soon.


1) i dont think you should be telling people how to play even if the majority of people all play it a certain way. aka mutual respect, and a real community with no bullshit.

2) i dont think you should be making threads about all things that have been discussed and solved already, let a person find it for themselves, or expierience it, unless you are trying to change to way people think. let them post when they have a question about something.

3) if someone wants to quit after 3 games 4 games 10 games, its their choice, they pay for online, they can do whatever they want, they dont have to play the way you want.

4) if they dont play because the game isnt fair, its probably because the lag is severly lopsided, anything else, including bosses, is all fair game.

and its just that, a game.

dont make people feel bad about the way they play

dont make people feel like they should of played you to this and that and used this and that character.

as for 33 and ac, it has been beaten to the ground since mkevolution, if you dont like it, then dont play with them. but dont knock someone else for using if they think it is right.

last but not least, a player like myself, who wasnt always the best, but now is. WHO STEPPED UP HIS GAME ALL BY HIMSELF.

have the will to win, and do whatever it takes to do so, and you will become a quality better, theres noone who can do that for you but yourself, and the will to want to be the best.

you will know when you succeed.

oh yea, online is trash, and doesnt prove anything, play offline with real priority instead of 2 people hitting each other at the same time,and the hits trading off with each other instead of one player getting priority. along with the huge lagwall in between players, that makes it impossible to each someone. ( usually one-sided )

theres not one person my 3 in shotokan hits mid for, but every single person, ( including red ) when they do it to me, it hits mid everytime. and this is the main reason why i dont play this game online anymore, im always at a disadvantage, no matter who i play, yet, people want to play me because im the best. see what i mean? online = pointless, and stop making a big deal about it EVERYONE, and just have fun and dont care about how good you are, youve been playing the same engine since 2003, you should know by now. its time for something new.

and noone enjoys losing, but more then likely, they lost because of the connection unless they truly suck at the game or it was a mismatch between characters which mka excels in.

peace


You either
a. Take this game way too seriously
b. or just didn't get the point of his post.

You're not the GOD of mk so stop acting like it.

I think a lot of players don't have the persistance inside to get through the rough spots to get better at a game. I think plaing someone for only 1-2 games and realizing they are not match shows either how much of a pussy that person might be in real life (taking a video game loss to seriously) or just not enjoy/like the game at all and call it quits. Hey some games arent for everyone...hell I only play 2 VIDEO games Madden and MK so there. I hate other games like halo, they bore me.

Anyway I've always tried to help who i'm playing. I got Wu from a shitty player to somewhat respectale but hten he went off the deep end so who knows. I helped mesofly, hmmm....there are many others. I helped crucifer one night. I always try to install knowledge that will help them play the game because I want them to play the game against me with their mind so I teach them every little trick because I need that to enjoy it. If I'm not having quality mind games with others online then I'm not enjoying it. I never play a game offline because I don't enjoy A.I.
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ChaosTheory
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PS2 Tag - "KONCHAOS"

 •07/17/2007 03:39 AM (UTC) •
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I agree with Pig. Completely.
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Maverick3176
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 •07/17/2007 04:19 AM (UTC) •
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i also agree with Pig...i think this post is a great Idea. I believe it should be stickied and Eazy should get a shit load of dragon points.
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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 10:12 AM (UTC) •
0
Great post Eazy!

If someone quits on me after playing 2 matches, it question why I should ever want to help that person. It tells a lot about who they are and how they perceive competition in the general context. They want to win and have good ranks they're not willing to be challenge. Like Bone said, it's all about the mentality. However, I wouldn't associate that with being a 'Scrub'. I think it's more complex than that because these people do indeed only play to win therefore contradicting the definition of 'scrub'.

So I guess I will have to go with Pig's opinion. He sums it up brilliantly using the word 'Pussy'. If you're not such a pussy, then you take your loss and learn from it and believing that one day you can turn defects to victories. That's what separates skilled players from those who are not skilled.

-----------------------------------------------

Check, it's good to have you posting again after the comments I left on PS2 forum. All I ask is just for you to acknowledge that the level you or any other person plays MKA does not make your opinions valid or other's less valid. It's all about respect!

Trax
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redsaleen02
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 •07/17/2007 10:53 AM (UTC) •
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i will show why check dont play, and why the word skill should not be thrown around.

the only word that should be used is frame adv, and it it truely worse than i thought.

100% fact now, the sides do not match up, not even close. to the point where one side has a good 10 frame adv, and the distances are not even close.

what i will post in the next couple of days is ur so called skill factor.
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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 11:17 AM (UTC) •
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Red, try and not make this thread into a technical jargon thread. Forget frames and all that stuff. This more like a philosophical thread rather than 'why MKA sucks' thread.
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ChaosTheory
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PS2 Tag - "KONCHAOS"

 •07/17/2007 02:23 PM (UTC) •
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Well speaking of fram advantage; what if somebody is at a disadvantage but still wins? I haven't studied or looked at it enough like Red and Check might have to know who all has the most advantage and who is usually at disadvantage. I'm just saying in general. If you're at a disadvantage and you still win; wouldn't that be cause to "throw the term skill around"?
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Maverick3176
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 •07/17/2007 02:40 PM (UTC) •
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Red....ur are making too big a deal of lag. Yes it is a factor...but there are some peeps I couldnt beat even if I had a lag advantage on them ie Eazy and Groy). That being said. Look at Krazies post about peeps with their limited thinking. The problem you are facing is that you cant fight past the limitations of your glitches...if glitches dont work you think that its the game...no its YOU. Your match with MKF illustrated this point...you saw 33 wasnt working...but you didnt have the skill enough to adapt, adjust and play without it. Instead of acknowledging your lack of skill...you blame it on the game....that is why you are not improving. I have the same problem but in the opposite directin....i probably incorporated 33 and AC into my game...but I dont...i think they are cheesy....i am realizing that it holds me back to think that way. I have incorporated deep kicks with a few characters....but I need to incorporate the "cheese/glitches" into my game...while you need to incorporate the ground game and better adaptation....truth is...if you combined me and you....you would have one hell of a fighter.
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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 02:53 PM (UTC) •
0
Maverick, how do you execute deep kicks?
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MEsoFLY
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Thanks to MEsoFLY, MKC is now closed until further notice.

 •07/17/2007 03:22 PM (UTC) •
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Red...I have played you yes? When we played it was always close...We went back and forth sometimes i won and some times you won...Also When i played Easy it would end in a 20-3...20-4 series...

Now ask Easy if i have improved...Ask Groy if i have improved...

Lag or no lag I COMPETE! That takes some skill...I didn't get a new connection. I feel at a disadvantage ALLOT but i adapt and over time i have gotten better and better.

I used to be skilled. Now I am highly skilled, but not quite Elite.

I am serious...ask them. Smoked out is the same way.

Right Smoke?
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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 03:46 PM (UTC) •
0
Let's not get too carried away with the whole Red thing. Red is always going to be Red.

-------------------------------------

On skills; it'd be hard for you guys to judge me. Some days I rock and some I suck. On a good day though, I am a damn good formidable warrior but the fact that I live I'm in Europe doesn't help me play to my full potential but I still compete nonetheless. On roster level which is what I hope the next topic is, I believe I can hang with most highly skilled players using high and low tier characters.

I look forward to the next topic.


Trax
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StillSmokedOut
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 •07/17/2007 04:47 PM (UTC) •
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I agree 100% with you mesofly!! we are both stuck down here and cant get over that plateu to become elite!
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MEsoFLY
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Thanks to MEsoFLY, MKC is now closed until further notice.

 •07/17/2007 05:03 PM (UTC) •
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no doubt!
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B0bbYBLaZe
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 •07/17/2007 05:17 PM (UTC) •
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thats because you both suck
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krayziebonethug
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www.TestYourMight.com
 •07/17/2007 06:21 PM (UTC) •
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B0bbYBLaZe Wrote:
thats because you both suck


Lmao thats fucked up .

but seriously review my post . the problem with you guys is that you guys dont know how to get to the next step .


try and look for it . slow down and analyze your mistakes .

dam i would write way more but i still dont got a comp . ill try and get my hands on one . peace .









: Bone
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danadbab
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Hello

•07/17/2007 07:45 PM (UTC) •
0
GTrax Wrote:
Maverick, how do you execute deep kicks?
go here and find out how.
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StillSmokedOut
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 •07/17/2007 07:57 PM (UTC) •
0
@ BOOBY..... take away sareena and you are just average.....lol

@bone.... hey, i know how to slow down and analyze, i just find it boring sometimes thats all. I could be much better than i am, i just like being aggressive, it makes the game fun for me. It is evident in my win to loss ratio. used to NEVER go under .500, now iam at like .375 just because I like taking risks
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B0bbYBLaZe
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 •07/17/2007 08:12 PM (UTC) •
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StillSmokedOut Wrote:
@ BOOBY..... take away sareena and you are just average.....lol

<



yeah but the fact is im not average.....and you are...... LOL. Once you can beat G-ROY and PIG please come talk shit to me...otherwise youve proven nothing but ranting about being the best kon artist.

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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 08:45 PM (UTC) •
0
danadbab Wrote:
GTrax Wrote:
Maverick, how do you execute deep kicks?
go here and find out how.

Thanks Dan! I'll check that out. I picked up A/C within few tries so I hope this would be as easy OR not!

Trax
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GTrax
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"The only way to get all you want is to risk all that you've got!" - Trax
ТраÑ... Ð ̧с а труÐμ СаÐ1⁄4ураР̧
 •07/17/2007 08:54 PM (UTC) •
0
@ Dan: I've just checked out the video. I'm still slightly confused on how it actually works. I probably need more practice online. DAMN! I'm ignorant!!
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krayziebonethug
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www.TestYourMight.com
 •07/17/2007 08:58 PM (UTC) •
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@ smokedout = thats not what i meant .



some ppl just wont get it .


and some will .




@ mesofly = you seem to have gottem better . good shit , the only thing i can tell you is to switch it up a bit more , i notice you have a pattern with everyone . take your time to see this and youll be way better in no time wink
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