Character unique advantages
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posted07/04/2006 11:03 PM (UTC)by
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Ko-jah
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02/10/2003 12:20 AM (UTC)
just wondering if anyone would like to see some character specific advantages which would hopefully influence who you would choose given a specific enemy.
for example:
- jax has metal arms and so should not sustain any damage whilst blocking - even weapons (perhaps cyrax and sector also)
- perhaps scorpion has an imunity to fire and fire projectiles
- damage to subzero should be lessened by 15% because he is cold, therefore cuts and swelling arent as significant.
- kano should have a 50% chance of escaping a death trap if pushed in, in accordance with his uncanny ability to live storyline
- baraka should do 15% more damage with each blow as a beserker-esque type character
- both sorcerers have a 50% chance of immunity if hit by a magic projectile alternatively they are the only ones to possess an unblockable magic attack. (raiden should have also)
- characters like zombie liu kang, drahmin and havok should have impale drain immunity since they are already dead
these are just examples but you get the idea. id like to see the raiden and shang and quan get some sort of imunity or something that sets them apart from the regulars of mortal kombat because imo they are a tier above lowly demon or mortal.
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Black-Rose
04/11/2006 06:30 AM (UTC)
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That would actually make MKA very interesting to play with. Not only do you choose your character on your favorite, who your best with, etc. But then you have to choose based off of what their special "abilities" are. Nice job on this concept, I think it would work out.
Now I just thought of something:
You say Scorpion should be immune to fire
And the Undead should be immune to impalements
Sorcery should have 50 % taken off from Magic Attacks
Add all of those up, and wouldn't Scorpion be.... DAMN HARD?!
Lol. Something to ponder over.
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Ko-jah
04/11/2006 07:06 AM (UTC)
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yes obviously there are kinks but if a balance could be found then would fans go for it?
so lets go for the latter suggestion with the sorcerers and make it only them that can have unblockable attacks like soul steal and maybe quans green skull and something from raiden. therefore scorpions hellfire would go in favour of some other special.
but again this has its flaws as i would like to see all "ground pound" moves unblockable also which includes jax, boraicho, drahmin, jarek and goro, kintaro i think.
but for the sake of balance then someone like scorpion would not gain both the benefits from being imune to fire and also being undead, because yeah, it would make him hard to beat.
or
keep unblockable moves where they are (i know plenty ppl like scorps hellfire) and make the sorcerers have 25% more damage with their projectiles AND receive 25% less damage when hit by magic/elemental projectiles to accentuate their mastery over magic.
scorpion - immunity to fire projectiles
subzero - sustains 15% less damage on melee blows
shang/quan - 25% projectile damage advantage, 25% projectile defence advantage
jax - does not sustain damage whilst blocking melee and weapons but sustains 15% more damage against magic projectiles
kano - 50% chance of escaping death trap if pushed in
baraka - inflicts 15% more damage on melee
etc etc
there could be others like:
better/slower recovery from magic projectiles - ie scorpion may only have 75% of freeze time since he is all about fire - which kinda fuels the whole scorp sub rivalry
perhaps frost only has 50% of regular freeze time since she is same species as subzero, therefore there is significantly reduced "freeze" advantage in a frost v subby fight
bo raicho could have a %imunity to melee blows since being drung deadens the pain.
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ToraRyu
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04/11/2006 01:03 PM (UTC)
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Yes, YEs and YES....that kind of features would rock so hard...that would be awesome and sooo cool and.....
krhm....i hope they would be balanced though and with some logic in them...but I dont have my hopes up.cos Boon is more concerned on making big bucks by cashing in with loyal fans and their hopes...and is too lazy to do anything like that....
I mean little more effort on the game would make it soo much fun(like it used to back in the good old ages)...but now (gameplay wise)the game continues to suck donkey balls and now it looks even that the dumbass in charge is going to f%&ck up the story line alltogether (with the one being and everything) and is sometimes even contradicting the story and little details himself (altough SM were not canon,i hope, that was some stupid bullshit even from him...subby getting the scar from Lao, quan present with the amulet during MKII etc....phew)
Pay attention MIDWAY...
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deathgrave
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04/11/2006 01:12 PM (UTC)
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I agree with Ko-Jah
I like the idea of beat-em-ups having (unseen) stats
so say the mage-esq characters Shang Tsung/Quan Chi etc do more damage with fireballs and take less damage from them
whereas melee type characters a la Baraka/Goro/Moloch etc do more physical damage and have greater resistance to melee moves.
Also faster characters could have average stats but jump higher and move slightly quicker (im thinkin Kabal/Fujin/Li Mei etc, well to me these guys seem quick)
---
Also with the first post, i like the idea of immunities and properties against elements BUT do you not think it would be hard to balance?. I mean for example Sub Zero could have immunity to ice whereas Scorpion has immunity to fire. Only Sub-Z, Frost and possibly Noob (if we're lucky!) use ice moves whereas tonnes of people use fire moves. Is this fair? No
Perhaps it could be balanced in other areas but i think if this is put into the game they would have to give elemental properties to at least every special move in the game and probably some standard ones as well.
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blackmagik
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04/11/2006 01:26 PM (UTC)
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This has kind of been touched upon in MKDA and MKD. Sonya's/Kira's kiss of death had no effect on Kenshi since he's blind. This gives him a slight advantage since the kiss of death is a good tactic for Sonya/Kira players.
But I would like to see this evolved into some of your ideas.
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XQSNR
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04/11/2006 07:15 PM (UTC)
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Sounds really good but there is one prob with all of this...........
....MIDWAY IS LAZY!!!!
Let us all hope that they will get thier act togather for the new generation.
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Randy
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04/11/2006 07:53 PM (UTC)
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It would be great if it was done in the correct way, i mean it would add some realisim to the game. I think something like this should be due in the Next Gen games. It would also be really intresting seen as though you would have to pick certain character to play others in order to have a easier win.
Good thoughts Ko-Jah
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tgrant
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Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
04/11/2006 08:19 PM (UTC)
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I and others have mentioned stuff like this in the past and it'd be awesome to see.
A game series I play recently added abilties to the characters just like these and they added alot of depth to the gameplay.
Sub-Zero could have an ability called Ice Armour which reduces the damge of physical hits by about 10%.
Raiden should absorb electrical attacks from his double in mirror matches and heal himself from it. He should have heightened speed also, imo as he represents one of the fastest elements there is. Look at how fast lightning travels!
Kenshi and Ermac should be able to move background objects and throw them at the opponent with their telekinesis.
The thing to take into account with such things is balance. Without that, it becomes broken and MKD was broken enough without stuff like this. As long as there was balance, stuff like this would be ownage to have in.
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Chrome
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04/11/2006 08:38 PM (UTC)
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Took the words out of my mouth. For example, we could unlock a weblike skill-tree fr each warrior in The Vault, and we could decide in what manner we save our characters.
Perhaps you go with Subs 25% increased freeze lenght instead of faster shotokan recovery rate.
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hhh316
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04/11/2006 08:47 PM (UTC)
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if this is the case, there will be a great sense of stradegy when choosing the characters.
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Jerrod
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04/12/2006 10:47 PM (UTC)
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I'd LOVE to see something like that, but it'd have ot be done very CAREFULLY, otherwise we could end up with a whole bunch of broken characters.
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lozminda
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lozminda
04/13/2006 12:26 AM (UTC)
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I think that would be difficult to balance, but if done right would rockkkkkkk sooooooo harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd, but it's a pipedream buddy, as if midway could be arsed
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Ko-jah
04/13/2006 02:45 AM (UTC)
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yes balance is the key and i get what u say with kenshi having slight advantages in terms of immunity from the kiss of death move.
i think at the very least a good starting point would be character imunities from their own specials, making mirror matches very interesting. any magic or special ability would have no effect if your opponent was the same.
of course there are the exceptions like frost v subby where neither can freeze each other or ermac and kenshi where neither can use telekinesis on each other.
and then perhaps someone like noob could have 50% less freeze time to show that he was once a cryomancer.
but then again kanos eye laser could not exactly be an imunity in a mirror match but instead what about if with the knife throw, kano catches the knife and tosses it aside - kind of like u cant kill a character with their own weapon type setup
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fijikungfu
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04/13/2006 05:00 AM (UTC)
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no thx... what about other characters that don't have advantages? and I don't think that idea is a success
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You-Know-Who
04/13/2006 06:43 AM (UTC)
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I've always wanted to see something like this in Mortal Kombat. I would really help with defining the characters. It may be a bit much to expect in Armageddon, but the next generation of Mortal Kombat games could greatly benefit from a system like this.
I don't think Scorpion should get immunity to fire. I don't really see him as being "fire" as being a ghost. The flames just seem to be channelled by him. I'd give Scorpion some kind of warrior sense, where an opponent who goes invisible cannot do it agains Scorpion, or Scorpion can break combos more easily or something. In Netherrealm stages, you could perhaps have Scorpion slowly regain health.
It makes characters more fun to play as. When you think about it, every character could have some kind of ability, even if it wasn't as awesome as some of the others. Stryker could spend your Koins on making bombs, which he can plant at a stage before you actually commence playing. Then when that stage comes up, the game can ask if you want to detonate it. Against an opponent like Scorpion or Kung Lao, this would kill them, allowing you to skip that fight, against Shao Kahn or Moloch, it would simply weaken them a little as you fight in rubble. Sektor, Cyrax & Hsu Hao could do this, too.
Sonya can bring in Jax, Cyrax or Kenshi to soften up her opponents first. So if/when they are defeated, Sonya has an advantage.
Ermac and Kenshi could disarm their opponents, and maybe even stand aside while the weapon fights for them.
These special attributes could be one-time usage (getting an ally to stand in for you), could cost you Koins, some can be used as power-ups (I like the idea of Scorpion's sword bursting into flames adding more power to it), others can be little discoveries you make in a fight (Sindel, Fujin or Ermac can't be knocked off ledges, Sub-Zero doesn't lose health during a blizzard which effects almost every other charatcer).
I really don't care if it "unbalances" the game. It would really tell a story. Stryker shouldn't be able to throw Blaze (an entity of pure fire). Johnny Cage shouldn't be able to have the same upper striking effect as Jax.
Just little things like Johnny Cage making more money out of fights than Kitana, or Spirit Liu Kang being able to enter the body of an opponent and have them commit Hara-Kiri (this could be a one time only thing). I would even love to see Kung Lao have the power to return to his body after being beaten once (again, only a one time thing). Kano escaping from death traps is a good one. Kitana & Mileena being able to break each other moves more easily is another idea.
Maybe set them up into categories:
Lifelines: Can only be used a limited number of times. Maybe three per mode? Examples would be Liu Kang being able to enter an opponent's body. Kung Lao returning to life (unless his body is destroyed by a Fatality or death trap). Quan Chi creating a portal, which serves as a death trap. Shang Tsung taking an opponent's soul mid-fight. Basically abilities which serve as mid-fight Fatalities or extra chances to beat your opponent.
Character Traits: If there's a water death trap, Sub-Zero could be immune by always landing on solid ice. Demons slowly regain health in the Netherrealm. Raiden gets hit by lighting, he gains health, etc.
Power-Ups. Liu Kang could move faster, Baraka can add power. Weapons can be modified for a fight, permanent little things that don't have limits, but change the fight a little. Sektor and Cyrax could adapt to temperatures with the press of a button, or something.
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fedegita
04/13/2006 09:50 AM (UTC)
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Yeah they all sound like good ideas.
I remember Kintaro used to block like a motherfucker in MK2 so maybe they should also make it that no life is lost when he blocks (like the first guy said with Jax) , but he also takes longer to "unblock" than normal characters.
Also, I remember in the Sega Master System 2 version of MK2 when you uppercutted Kintaro, he would basically jump only like four inches off the ground. If they kept that, and made the uppercut recovery time slower for the normal fighters when they uppercut the "boss" characters, it would really make it feel like you were fighting a bulky monsterosity of an enemy.
I think that giving the "boss" characters no air kombat moves is like a small example of this, but like one guy said earlier, MK team is too lazy to take it as far with some good ideas like people have posted here.
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SOLIDUS
04/13/2006 11:21 AM (UTC)
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Yes plezbian, sounds good to me.
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MKLARKIE
04/13/2006 02:14 PM (UTC)
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I was thinkin Blaze is made of fire, so Sub-Zero, Frost, should take double damage of blaze and blaze should be immune to ice and fire moves.wow
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chameleon84
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04/13/2006 02:24 PM (UTC)
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your idea could work (and would be sweet as well) but it would have to be done right.
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oracle
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04/13/2006 03:38 PM (UTC)
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it's a very good idea but it would create alot of balance issues within the game, and it already has issues with that without extra stuff.
it is a very good idea though.
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Black-Rose
04/13/2006 10:41 PM (UTC)
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Ko-jah Wrote:
yes obviously there are kinks but if a balance could be found then would fans go for it?
so lets go for the latter suggestion with the sorcerers and make it only them that can have unblockable attacks like soul steal and maybe quans green skull and something from raiden. therefore scorpions hellfire would go in favour of some other special.
but again this has its flaws as i would like to see all "ground pound" moves unblockable also which includes jax, boraicho, drahmin, jarek and goro, kintaro i think.
but for the sake of balance then someone like scorpion would not gain both the benefits from being imune to fire and also being undead, because yeah, it would make him hard to beat.
or
keep unblockable moves where they are (i know plenty ppl like scorps hellfire) and make the sorcerers have 25% more damage with their projectiles AND receive 25% less damage when hit by magic/elemental projectiles to accentuate their mastery over magic.
scorpion - immunity to fire projectiles
subzero - sustains 15% less damage on melee blows
shang/quan - 25% projectile damage advantage, 25% projectile defence advantage
jax - does not sustain damage whilst blocking melee and weapons but sustains 15% more damage against magic projectiles
kano - 50% chance of escaping death trap if pushed in
baraka - inflicts 15% more damage on melee
etc etc
there could be others like:
better/slower recovery from magic projectiles - ie scorpion may only have 75% of freeze time since he is all about fire - which kinda fuels the whole scorp sub rivalry
perhaps frost only has 50% of regular freeze time since she is same species as subzero, therefore there is significantly reduced "freeze" advantage in a frost v subby fight
bo raicho could have a %imunity to melee blows since being drung deadens the pain.

It would be actually better if each character had their different advantages, not just a certain part of characters, like Ninjas, Sorcerers, Gods, etc. Let me give you an example: If the gods had the same advantages then this whole theory of choosing a character for their speciality would go to waste. Thus Fujin and Raiden are both gods, and both have their speciality the same. So based on this, you wouldn't choose them for their specialalities anymore, just their moves or favoritism, etc.
Now if each of the characters had their own speciality, you wouldn't just choose who to play on favorites, or their moves, but on their specialities (and the favs and moves as well). Which would make this game MUCH funner and more interesting.
BlAcK-RoSe glasses
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Ko-jah
04/24/2006 01:28 AM (UTC)
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You-Know-Who Wrote:
I've always wanted to see something like this in Mortal Kombat. In Netherrealm stages, you could perhaps have Scorpion slowly regain health.
Sonya can bring in Jax, Cyrax or Kenshi to soften up her opponents first. So if/when they are defeated, Sonya has an advantage.
Ermac and Kenshi could disarm their opponents, and maybe even stand aside while the weapon fights for them.
These special attributes could be one-time usage (getting an ally to stand in for you), could cost you Koins, some can be used as power-ups (I like the idea of Scorpion's sword bursting into flames adding more power to it), others can be little discoveries you make in a fight (Sindel, Fujin or Ermac can't be knocked off ledges, Sub-Zero doesn't lose health during a blizzard which effects almost every other charatcer).
I really don't care if it "unbalances" the game. It would really tell a story. Stryker shouldn't be able to throw Blaze (an entity of pure fire). Johnny Cage shouldn't be able to have the same upper striking effect as Jax.
Just little things like Johnny Cage making more money out of fights than Kitana, or Spirit Liu Kang being able to enter the body of an opponent and have them commit Hara-Kiri (this could be a one time only thing). I would even love to see Kung Lao have the power to return to his body after being beaten once (again, only a one time thing). Kano escaping from death traps is a good one. Kitana & Mileena being able to break each other moves more easily is another idea.
Maybe set them up into categories:
Lifelines: Can only be used a limited number of times. Maybe three per mode? Examples would be Liu Kang being able to enter an opponent's body. Kung Lao returning to life (unless his body is destroyed by a Fatality or death trap). Quan Chi creating a portal, which serves as a death trap. Shang Tsung taking an opponent's soul mid-fight. Basically abilities which serve as mid-fight Fatalities or extra chances to beat your opponent.
Character Traits: If there's a water death trap, Sub-Zero could be immune by always landing on solid ice. Demons slowly regain health in the Netherrealm. Raiden gets hit by lighting, he gains health, etc.
Power-Ups. Liu Kang could move faster, Baraka can add power. Weapons can be modified for a fight, permanent little things that don't have limits, but change the fight a little. Sektor and Cyrax could adapt to temperatures with the press of a button, or something.

i like a couple of your ideas like the emac and sindel and fujin not being able to throw off ledges etc and the intracate stage interaction ideas, though these i dont see happening for a while. however things such as demons regaining health in the netherralm or cyrax and stryker planting bombs may be a bit too advantageous in vs mode - maybe story mode would be better.
but for balance issues a starting point could be as simple as categorising the characters into three separate groups - sorcerers, balance and brawlers where sorcerers (raiden, shang, quan etc) do more damage with elemental/magic projectiles than melee. brawlers are the opposite, relying on melee blows to do all the damage and besides, characters like cage and jax shouldnt have magic projectiles anyway, or if they do it makes sense that it should be weaker than a projectile from shang. balanced fighters are obviously somewhere in between.
from that base then u could add in some small character specific advantages like freeze imunities or deathtrap escapes or for some brawler characters a mini aggressor mode...i dont know but it would be these little tweaks which would be cool but also need to be unbiased towards particular characters.
i guess my last thoughs are for characters that fit into more than one character ie raiden - could be sorcery but is a god so should have brawler strength - maybe raiden should be a hidden character...
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EmberJoe
04/24/2006 02:12 AM (UTC)
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I think that balance is important so a well thought out advantage/disadvantage system per character would be important. For every advantage a character has they have an equal disadvantage. This way, opponent specific advantages would be balanced with an opponent specific disadvantage.
For example:
Blaze
--- Advantage -Immune to ice projectiles (Sub-Zero and Frost)
--- Disadvantage - Nullified fire abilities against ice characters (Sub-Zero and Frost)
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pimpin
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05/06/2006 08:49 PM (UTC)
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scorpion and blaze imune 2 fire
opponent health should go down evry time they hit raiden raiden
rain and raiden imune to electric atacks
if jax is atacked by weapon wile blocking after a while it breaks and when attacked by hand wile blocking the attack should backfire
ermac and kenshi imune to telekinesis
sub zero heals
kenshi imune to blinding stuns
cyrax and sektor can project a force field
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