FLSTYLE Wrote: CMETH Wrote: FLSTYLE Wrote: It is a fact that such brilliant ideas are coming from people from this forum, the professionals are supposed to do something loads better which is why they're professionals, and they're doing nothing, I think that as disapointing, not a judgement on the engine itself, I already said that in a previous post, but you started making comments on the post before it, look through that post. Did I ever say that the people on this forum are not giving good ideas? NO, and that has nothing to do with what were talking about. I suggest you get your facts straight. ok just forget it, you obviously don't understand what I'm getting at, i wasn't challenging you on the point that people give good ideas, i was using that to back up my opinion that the current effort that is being put into the gameplay is disapointing. Which is true, because if people on here are giving good ideas, why aren't the professionals giving the same effort and acheivement? that's what i was getting at, that I'm not happy with the engine because of it's quality compared to that of the ideas being given by people here on the forum.

I understood perfectly waht you said, just it doesn't prove anything thus not pertaining to this in one bit. Just because people give better/great ideas does't prove the engine is disappointing one bit, considering it's all up to ones opinion. Many people like it and many people dislike it, neither are wrong nor right.

Also I can think of many games, even games that are AAA titles, where people give better suggestions for the gameplay and what not. Believe it or not, gamers can come up with some of the best ides because their gamers.

Simple as that.

FLSTYLE, my post was not meant for you, or anyone else that posted here for that matter. It was just my long winded version of agreeing with Temp. I have always said constructive feedback is a good thing, and your feedback certainly is.

JadeDragonMeli Wrote: FLSTYLE, my post was not meant for you, or anyone else that posted here for that matter. It was just my long winded version of agreeing with Temp. I have always said constructive feedback is a good thing, and your feedback certainly is.

As long as you don't feel I'm "MK bashing" like a lot of n00bs put it when someone disagrees with another

CMETH - of course gamers can think up of ideas, but most can't make a game like the professionals can, so it's disapointing that those who can make a game aren't as good with ideas as the gamers themselves, this I feel is reflected in the game itself, it would be a lot better if some of the gamers could make the games and implement ideas that they have come up with.

FLSTYLE Wrote: JadeDragonMeli Wrote: FLSTYLE, my post was not meant for you, or anyone else that posted here for that matter. It was just my long winded version of agreeing with Temp. I have always said constructive feedback is a good thing, and your feedback certainly is. As long as you don't feel I'm "MK bashing" like a lot of n00bs put it when someone disagrees with another CMETH - of course gamers can think up of ideas, but most can't make a game like the professionals can, so it's disapointing that those who can make a game aren't as good with ideas as the gamers themselves, this I feel is reflected in the game itself, it would be a lot better if some of the gamers could make the games and implement ideas that they have come up with.

That's right were the problem is, gamers can't MAKE a game but can think of IDEAS just as good as any professionals can. It's common sense that gamers can't make the game since they don't have the knowledge to the works of the pc/game tool they use inside and out, but any gamer can think of ideas better or worse then the makers.

You're running short on back up reasons man. I would drop it.

CMETH Wrote: It's common sense that gamers can't make the game since they don't have the knowledge to the works of the pc/game tool they use inside and out, but any gamer can think of ideas better or worse then the makers.

That's my point right there, the professionals with their superior knowledge of making a game, and how everything works should be making far better ideas than the gamers themselves, because gamers can only look upon other ideas and improve upon them, but the professionals have the ability to create brand new ideas that have never done before, or always think of something that the gamer wouldn't, just like they do with other aspects of a game.

But the potential compared to the actual quality is disapointing, if you're happy with the way the engine is good for you, I'm not saying I'm not happy with it, I'm not even making a judgement on it, I'm just saying there seems to be a lack of effort from the professionals whih can be seen from the quality of the game now, and what it could've been.

FLSTYLE you seem to be getting jumped left and right. Yes you made some good points. And you have your Opinion, But after seeing the new trailer how in Gods name can you not see some major improvements. Moves, faster gameplay, Level interaction. They brought back the cross over kicks. That in it's self SCREAMS improvement. You seem to be one of three people coming here to think that the game is not deep because it has other games in it as well as the fighting game. I can kinda feel where you are coming from though. I think you stated that MK is a fighting game first and with all the other games and such added it can take away from the fighting game. Limited moves, Limited space that could have been used to better the fighting part. But the sad part is, in the new trailer it showed so much new parts of the fighting gameplay it makes what you are saying wrong. There is enough space to make the fighting full of goodness. And also have other games as well. Anyone who has watched the trailer will not see it your way. It's hard to believe that you yourself can't see the change. I am not trying to flame you or make you feel bad in any way I am just sticking up for the game, and gameplay. I gotta go watch the trailer somemore so I can see the unique character throws. Laters DSB

dirtystankbutter Wrote: FLSTYLE you seem to be getting jumped left and right. Yes you made some good points. And you have your Opinion, But after seeing the new trailer how in Gods name can you not see some major improvements. Moves, faster gameplay, Level interaction. They brought back the cross over kicks. That in it's self SCREAMS improvement. You seem to be one of three people coming here to think that the game is not deep because it has other games in it as well as the fighting game. I can kinda feel where you are coming from though. I think you stated that MK is a fighting game first and with all the other games and such added it can take away from the fighting game. Limited moves, Limited space that could have been used to better the fighting part. But the sad part is, in the new trailer it showed so much new parts of the fighting gameplay it makes what you are saying wrong. There is enough space to make the fighting full of goodness. And also have other games as well. Anyone who has watched the trailer will not see it your way. It's hard to believe that you yourself can't see the change. I am not trying to flame you or make you feel bad in any way I am just sticking up for the game, and gameplay. I gotta go watch the trailer somemore so I can see the unique character throws. Laters DSB

Seems fair to me, I've seen the new trailer and admitidly, I can see where changes have been made involving new ideas for gameplay, and it looks good, I can see where a lot of effort has been put in.

The only part that I have a problem is as I've said, the majority of things I see that look good gameplay wise, are parts that have been fixed, rather than new ideas, such as reversals being universal, characters having 6 specials, speeding up what was previously a slow engine, improving upon the invisable walls by introducing intereactive backgrounds.

I wouldn't rather seen new ideas for the 3D game, such as the cross-over kicks, unique character throws and the MK themed attack detection bar system, but because of the time + people used to spend on the mini games, that hasn't been possible.

For all I know I'll probably enjoy playing chess kombat, I'm interested in a more stragetic version of MK, and I know I'll be playing konquest for a good while, I have a general interest in rpg versions of different game genres, but puzzle kombat? I can't help thinking of it as a MK themed Super Puzzle fighter rip-off, not to mention that it doesn't have anything to do with the main game, its fighting engine, or the storyline itself.

So when I see such ideas for the main game coming from users on this forum, but then seeing a mini-game like Puzzle Kombat taking up memory and space on the disk instead, I get a little bit disheartened.

It doesn't give me the thought that Deception will be a rubbish fighting game, I already have a good idea in my mind that it'll be a good fighting game, but it could be great and without puzzle kombat.

FLSTYLE Wrote: CMETH Wrote: It's common sense that gamers can't make the game since they don't have the knowledge to the works of the pc/game tool they use inside and out, but any gamer can think of ideas better or worse then the makers. That's my point right there, the professionals with their superior knowledge of making a game, and how everything works should be making far better ideas than the gamers themselves, because gamers can only look upon other ideas and improve upon them, but the professionals have the ability to create brand new ideas that have never done before, or always think of something that the gamer wouldn't, just like they do with other aspects of a game. But the potential compared to the actual quality is disapointing, if you're happy with the way the engine is good for you, I'm not saying I'm not happy with it, I'm not even making a judgement on it, I'm just saying there seems to be a lack of effort from the professionals whih can be seen from the quality of the game now, and what it could've been.

It's one thing to know the inside workings of computers/the tools and another to actually come up with ideas. Coming up with ideas has nothing to do with knowing the computer/tools. Your point was not what I said, and you seem to be confused about that. I'm not saying the game can't be improved, but just because a game can be improved(what game can't be?), doesn't mean it is lacking. Either way, were both entitled to our opinion.

Also my main point in the beginning which you fail to realize is that I didn't like how you state it like a fact. Remember to use the words *I think* and/or *imo* when speaking about the engine. Otherwise you come across as if you're speaking for everyone and it's a fact that the engine is lacking.

This convo should have ended right in the beginning but you keep missing the main point of what I said to you and beated around the bush.

Oh and just for the record in general(not to you FLStyle), I see many people saying they don't compare it to Tekken,VF,etc. Well if that's true, then where do they get this higher standard? From those games, doh.