"fight state indicators"

3D Kombat Klassics

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posted07/29/2004 11:31 AM (UTC)by

krackerjack

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04/12/2003 08:11 AM (UTC)

As far as i'm aware, there hasn't been too much talk about this, which is quite ridiculous considering MK:DA's lack of depth had everybody bitching and complaining, and this appears to try to add some of that much needed depth.

I use the word try in the above manner because i really don't beleive any depth is being added at all, but rather gameplay strategies are just being made more accessable to casual players, which may or may not be positive...

In a way this is good, maybe we'll have less people buying the game, learning the special moves, and using them repeatedly untill they beat their opponent (which i'll admit is sort of what i first did when i played MK:DA). Less scrubby players of the game would have to make the game itself better, especially for online play, right? Surely raising the general standard of play and competition couldn't hurt.

Maybe not, but it may take away some of the sweetness of a hard earned victory.

One of the best things about fighting games, is practicing your ass off, trying to learn that expert timing and those vicious combos needed in order to wipe the floor with your mates. It's like the more work you put in, the more you get out. You learn certain things by practice that your friends don't know about, and they learn things you don't know about (at least in the combo/juggling aspect anyway, and i'm sure there are other sides too). Thats just the way of fighting games in general.

Now, if thats taken away, because everybody is simpley told "block now", "sidestep now", "attack now", then a great deal of the fun is taken from the game. Where will the individual style or techniques come in? It seems like the players who spend a lot of time trying to get combos down, learning the stages, ect are on a level playing feild with those who don't, and personally i think it's unfair.

I don't really know much about the whole fight state indicator thing to be honest, but from what i've read, i just don't like it. Maybe it won't really affect the outcome of a match at all, i don't really know, i just get the impression a smaller amount of thought and skill is going to be required to win.

Anyway, throw your thoughts, opinions, or knowledge on the subject in this thread.

DirtyStankButter

@DirtyStankButter

•07/28/2004 01:29 PM (UTC) •

Yes, Krackerjack finally someone else has made a comment about this. I have been totally against this idea from the start. These bars will at first make little difference, then when people start to master it, let the slobber knockers begin. It takes the fun out of guessing is my enemy open for the kill? There is a big huge sign above your head that says HEY HIT ME NOW. Cheap just plain suck ass. I would like a fair fight where the other player has to guess when to hit me, not told to do so now without learning what makes me open. This is the only part of MKD I don't like. I do have to say this though. At E3 not very many people paid attention to the bars unless they were near a death trap. When you get close to a death trap and are not blocking the indacater was bright red. That was kinda cool to let you know I need to get the hell out of here. Other than that the only players that even looked at them was the MK staff when they were playing. This a great thread Krackerjack. If you ever get bored you should swing on over to the countdown thread we could use some good posts. Thanks DSB

Toxik

@Toxik

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•07/28/2004 01:38 PM (UTC) •

Do you guys know if you can turn them off, on the option menu or something??

Because I think some people might like them, but some of them won't.

smaddy

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If anyone at Rare is reading this, Where is Killer Instinct 3 already

•07/28/2004 01:58 PM (UTC) •

Yea they can be turned off. i believe ed boon mentioned this in one of the longer interviews. and i'm sure, at least with xbox live anyways, you can set it so that any players who jump in will have to either fight with it off or not join your game.

FLSTYLE

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•07/28/2004 02:10 PM (UTC) •

Personally I like the idea for use in a practice mode, I used it often in Tekken, but the whole character was different colours depending on whether they were open for attack or not, it was useful for speeding up my reaction times.

I'll diffinately have it switched on during practice then turn it off when i'm in the main mode.

Toxik

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•07/28/2004 02:20 PM (UTC) •

OK, thanks for the info.

abomb1987

@abomb1987

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•07/28/2004 02:23 PM (UTC) •

FLSTYLE Wrote:
Personally I like the idea for use in a practice mode, I used it often in Tekken, but the whole character was different colours depending on whether they were open for attack or not, it was useful for speeding up my reaction times.

I'll diffinately have it switched on during practice then turn it off when i'm in the main mode.

that is what iam going to do.in practice it will help you read the opponents defence. then on a real match i will thurn it off and test my skill. i might use it on arcade mode cause this kinda evens the odds with the cheap computer oppoents, hey the comp always knows the right time to hit why shouldn't we.

also how do you read the fight indicators? what do each color or box mean>

sonin

@sonin

•07/28/2004 02:39 PM (UTC) •

I agree.. this isn't a positive. esp now that this is going online. I don't want to let people in on the strategy that made MKDA on max difficulty pretty much EASY for me.

it's good for people who haven't figured out the vulnerability points

tgrant

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•07/28/2004 02:47 PM (UTC) •

I like the inclusion of the bars, simply for practice means only. Learning the best times to attack really isn't that hard without the lights, but I suppose this will make it easier to learn how to counter attack and when to attack or not to attack in all situatons. I think to use them well on practice, the opponent will need to attack also, so hopefuly they'll add that option in.

I'll also have it of in the main modes.

Sub-ZeroMasta

@Sub-ZeroMasta

•07/28/2004 02:50 PM (UTC) •

Personally, I will start out using them when I first get the game. Albeit in practice mode, not arcade, vs, etc. I'd like to see how well they coincide with the fight that is taking place. They might actually be a good thing to help out the 'casual' player to learn the nuances of the game.

As far as Practice Mode goes, I think it will be a great tool to use. It gets you in tune with what what to look for when you're in an actual match.

In online play or arcade tho, I'm not sure how well you would fair if your soley depending on the indicators. I believe that the lights are there to help teach you what is going on at that particular moment in the fight and to help teach you what to do in a particular situation. IE when you are vulnerable to an attack or when you can counter. So that eventually you will be able to know it on your own by looking at the fighters alone, not the indicators.

CMETH

@CMETH

•07/28/2004 05:58 PM (UTC) •

Same here. I'll use it in pratice mode and that is all. Same goes for the danger/weapon zone markings on the floor.

Satyagraha

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•07/28/2004 10:22 PM (UTC) •

The indicators are just a weak, very weak, attempt at applying frame data; or a similar concept. It's just that instead of studying and comparing frame data tables, peeps will be looking at pretty lights.

Also, it's irrelevant weather or not the indicators are there. In the end, if peeps want to actually win, they'll all play the same. Shit gets broken down and abused, that's it. Execution and correct decision making is the only thing that seperates players. You don't need indicators to understand or accomplish such.

kingjolly

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•07/28/2004 10:30 PM (UTC) •

the indicators sounds kind of useful when your trying to pull of a reversal(i hope the reversal and throw system we'll be improved this time around).

krackerjack

@krackerjack

•07/29/2004 03:37 AM (UTC) •

Satyagraha Wrote:
The indicators are just a weak, very weak, attempt at applying frame data; or a similar concept. It's just that instead of studying and comparing frame data tables, peeps will be looking at pretty lights.

Also, it's irrelevant weather or not the indicators are there. In the end, if peeps want to actually win, they'll all play the same. Shit gets broken down and abused, that's it. Execution and correct decision making is the only thing that seperates players. You don't need indicators to understand or accomplish such.

Things do get broken down and abused, but thats something thats usually reserved for people who bother to put the time and effort into discovering how and why.
It's inevitable, yes, but i don't want somebody whose been playing for a few hours to have that privilege.

Satyagraha

@Satyagraha

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"You see, I face a whole new Monster!! I face a man, who represents, the Nintendo Entertainment System..."

•07/29/2004 04:04 AM (UTC) •

krackerjack Wrote:
It's inevitable, yes, but i don't want somebody whose been playing for a few hours to have that privilege.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't worry about it that to much, though. Even though it "indicates" certain parameters, the player still has psychology, mix ups, execution and overall knowledge to deal with. I personally think it will be a non-issue. It's just hella lame to begin with.

Someone who knows wtf they're doing > random tool looking at pretty colors. Any day of the week.

Alpha_Q_Up

@Alpha_Q_Up

•07/29/2004 04:49 AM (UTC) •

I dont get it, why dont well thought out threads like this get 50+ responses, a thread that actually talks about the gameplay? And stupid crap like "I'm getting this game because Kabal and Baraka are in it" will get like 100 or more? It seems like alot of people look past the actual gameplay and seem to care only about fatalities, and what characters in it.

Satyagraha

@Satyagraha

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"You see, I face a whole new Monster!! I face a man, who represents, the Nintendo Entertainment System..."

•07/29/2004 05:16 AM (UTC) •

^^^^^
Sadly, it's the same demographic that Midway likes to gear their games towards.

krackerjack

@krackerjack

•07/29/2004 05:52 AM (UTC) •

Alpha_Q_Up Wrote:
I dont get it, why dont well thought out threads like this get 50+ responses, a thread that actually talks about the gameplay? And stupid crap like "I'm getting this game because Kabal and Baraka are in it" will get like 100 or more? It seems like alot of people look past the actual gameplay and seem to care only about fatalities, and what characters in it.

Heh, yup. It almost reflects the state of the world in small way.
People hate thinking, but love expressing.

Alpha_Q_Up

@Alpha_Q_Up

•07/29/2004 09:25 AM (UTC) •

krackerjack Wrote:

Alpha_Q_Up Wrote:
I dont get it, why dont well thought out threads like this get 50+ responses, a thread that actually talks about the gameplay? And stupid crap like "I'm getting this game because Kabal and Baraka are in it" will get like 100 or more? It seems like alot of people look past the actual gameplay and seem to care only about fatalities, and what characters in it.

Heh, yup. It almost reflects the state of the world in small way.
People hate thinking, but love expressing.

In a way, yes it does.

danadbab

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•07/29/2004 11:31 AM (UTC) •

I actually like the fight indicators. If I play some 1 online I rather get a decent fight rather then me kicking his ass because he/she doesnt know all the little details of the game i.e. when to block, when to counter attack. Playing mk-mkda is boring playing some 1 that isnt as good as I am. The lights will help the scrubs get better faster then in previous mk's..

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