Honestly I think Kitana and Sonya are probably equal in terms of being iconic. They'll probably both make it in but I'd prefer Kitana over Sonya any day.

Sonya can come back as long as she actually looks like a woman this time. In MKDA onwards, she looks like a shemale with a bad face job.

No. She isn't.

Iconic isn't determined by hardcore fans.

It's determined by non-fans, and the status a character has among them.

Sonya's status is greater among non-fans; she's up there with Samus, Chun Li, Jill Valentine, and Laura Croft for most known female video game characters. Thus ICONIC.

With "iconic" they usually choose the worst...

And judging by your avatar, you're obviously a pillar of objectivity.

I'm not a huge fan of either Sonya or Kitana; but the fact is people are just siding with Kitana because she's a ninja, and every MK fan has a major ninja chubby (Granted, my favorite character is Sub-Zero, but that's only been since MK4 when he really started to come into his own as a character.)

the fact that we even have to argue this is indicative of Midway already screwing up; how can you condense all of MKdom into 10-11 characters?

It needs to be an even 16 for both brands. The MK 16 would include both Kitana and Sonya.

I'm confident Kitana is just as known among non-fans as Sonya is. Personally, I know more people who remember the "blue ninja chick with fans" over the "blonde with her mid-driff showing." Invertly, I'm sure there are others who feel the opposite and others who remember the "ninja chick with the fucked up face" over both of them.

Hate to break to you, but a lot of non-fans I've encountered remember mainly the ninja, too.
Non-fans = mainstream.
Mainstream = things that appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator.
things that appeal to the LCD = ninja.
Now, I'm not saying Kitana should get in merely because she's a ninja. But ninja do tend to appeal to the "mainstream."
On a personal level though, I'll admit I have a much higher standard for what makes a character iconic. Being well-known is a factor, no doubt....but not the only one.

lol, people are trying to blame Midway for fans liking one character now? wow the stupidity never dies on here does it?

I wouldn't mind seeing either of them in, but like Kitana a little more overall.

Can we please not turn his into a "_____ > _______ Beecuz ______" thread?

Seriously, the only thing more annoying than repeated threads are people who are so angry that their favorite character isn't everyone's favorite character that they feel they need to defend said characters at least 12 times a day! It always happens the same way: you have one person who is pissed because other people don't like his/her character, so that person goes and attacks their favorite's biggest competition. When they do that, the competition's fan comes in and counter-attacks. Then, it goes on and on and never goes anywhere. In this thread, we one or two Kitana fans who comes in and bash Sonya because she's the competition, then the Sonya fans come, virtual bitch-slaps abound, and start the process again.

If you like Kitana better than Sonya, then you have your reasons. Just state them and be done with it! Don't start trying to disprove Sonya fans' reasons just so your character can "be on top"! I'd say the same thing to Sonya fans if it happened to be them in the defendent's chair. This is why MK has such a large cast, it's so that everyone can have their favorite. How boring would it be if everyone shared the same favorite?

Now...

===================


Who do I think will make it in? Both. Sonya and Kitana are the most recognizable females in MK, partially because they were the first females to appear in the series, and the longer a character has been around, the more iconic/classic that character becomes (yes, iconic and classic have a pretty similar meaning!) Non-MK-fans or DC fans are gonna be happier when they see Sonya and Kitana (and probably Mileena); much happier than they would be if it was another female they had never seen or heard of before.

Who do I think deserves it more? Sonya. Yes, she's my favorite character, but the reasons I have for that don't really count when it comes to which female deserves it more.

Ok, what I mean by this is that if Sonya was my fave but I truly thought Kitana deserved it more, I'd say so. I mean, I really like Cage, but I recognize there's more deserving characters out there, some of which I don't particularly like). From a broad point of view, I do think Sonya is more deserving.

1)First of all, she's been around longer or, more specifically, was the first female introduced to MK. No matter what some people say, this DOES affect how iconic a character is. Non-fans of a series are much more probable to like a character of said series that's been around from episode one as opposed to a character introduced in the finale. They've seen more of the character that's been around longer, they've heard more about the character that's been around longer, so they're inclined to like the character that's been around longer. This makes Sonya more iconic than Kitana, even if just slightly.

2)Second of all, I see Sonya as much more relatable and more well-defined than Kitana. She's more relatable because she's an Earth warrior, and since the beginning of the series, she's been in a state of mind that WE would be in if we were part of the MK universe. It's easier to understand the mechanism behind Sonya's actions and thoughts than it is to do the same for Kitana, because Sonya (like the other protagonists from MK1) were introduced to Mortal Kombat more or less as we were: from no previous knowledge. I say Sonya is also more well-defined because her personality and desires, though direct and non-complex for the most part, are concrete and much more understandable than Kitana's. From the beginning, Sonya has remained true to her primary instincts and emotions, no matter what the next big threat was. We (MK fans at least) could always understand why Sonya's past molded her into the character she is now; thus, we could always understand her and know what to expect from her.

Kitana, on the other hand, has gone through a change that I think was very drastic and sudden; from the beginning, this turned me off about her as a character.



This is a very valid point, IMO, and one I agree with whole heartedly. I never liked how Kitana went through such a sudden change, giving up everything about herself and taking on a new persona "overnight", as they say. I guess first impressions do stick.

XiahouDun84, you also have a valid point. Though there's really no way of reasoning with Kitana's drastic and sudden change in MK:2, you did do a good job of reasoning with the fact that was brought up that Kitana was not developped well as a character throughout the games. Still, I would've liked the MK Team to have said what you said in one of her bios. Though your point about her compensating for her past is valid, in the end it's more of you personally deciphering Kitana and less of a factor of Kitana's personality. So in the end, my first impression of Kitana is what continues to stick with me game after game and stops her not just from being my favorite female, but also from being the more deserving female IMHO, even though I do like Kitana and I enjoy her benevolent persona and actions in the installments she's been in.


3)Third, I think Sonya has much more potential for the future MK Games than Kitana has. Kitana's appeal, or rather, her importance to the past MK Games has mainly revolved around Shao Khan. When it came down to it, Kitana's always wanted nothing more than to end Khan's reign and put everything right that once was wrong. That's great, and makes her storylines more interesting to the fans. However, this also makes Kitana too dependent on the "reign of evil" thing. What I mean by this is that, from what we've seen of Kitana, it's only safe to assume that her goals will always revolve around stopping an evil power that's grown strong and threatens her realm. What this also means is that, if Kitana is kept around, then her personality and mainly her desires and actions in the next games are going to get really old, really fast. A hero (or heroine) needs a lot more than a "desire to stop evil" in order to have increased potential.

I think Sonya has shown this more than Kitana has. Though Sonya's primary concern in the majority of past games WAS to "stop the evil", she's shown us more facets of her personality than just this. Primarily, she's shown us her incredible value to friendship. We've seen how Sonya deeply values her allies and anyone who is close to her. Sure, this might be a simple trait, but if you stop to think about it, it's a simple trait that opens up a lot of possible doors for Sonya and, in the end, increases her potential as a continuous character. Automatically, the MK Team isn't forced to include Sonya in a game just so she can battle evil; instead, they have the option of making her storyline revolve around a friend - maybe a specific character who is in trouble. Take Jax's ending, for instance. Whereas we'd all expect Kitana to be focused entirely on combating the "next evil", with Sonya it's different; we can expect Sonya to either be bent on combating the next evil, or be trying to save Jax specifically and return him to his old self, ridding him of his taint. Just an example that can be executed in many other different ways. I mean, honestly, even Mileena has more potential in the next games than Kitana for the mere fact that we've been introduced to another facet of Mileena recently. Whereas we once always expected Mileena to be wanting to kill Kitana, we've come to see the power-hungry side of her in Deception. Automatically, the MK Team doesn't have to include Mileena in the next games just so she can kill Kitana; they have the option of exploring her thirst for power in many different ways as well.

So because of these very detailed reasons I've given, I'd say Sonya is definitely the more deserving female to be included in the game, IF the MK Team had to choose between her and the second most iconic female, Kitana. I do like Kitana and I'm always excited to see her new storylines and endings, but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have as many qualities and unexplored potential as Sonya and probably Mileena have.

OH YEAH, and, PLEASE don't take this as an attack to Kitana, all you hardcore Kitana fans! All I did was say why I see Sonya as the top female character, and just because Kitana's not my #1 in this situation doesn't mean I hate her and want her to drown in a flooded sewer! Please don't start trying to turn the tables on me and disprove something I've said just so other people won't disregard Kitana in favor of Sonya - seriously, give it a rest.

I hope this isn't directed at me...because I didn't say anything derogatory about Sonya. I simply defended what I felt was an undermining of Kitana's character development and more iconic than she was being given credit for.



I would have to respectfully disagree. I've little doubt they'll both get in, but IMO, Kitana deserves it more.

My reasons for believing Kitana is more iconic are as follows:
- Obviously longevity and prominence.
True, Sonya came first, but I figure the fact that MK2 is widely considered the high point amongst both fans and non-fans...a game which did not feature Sonya but did feature Kitana, balances out the "Sonya came first" argument. Since then, Kitana's remained a consistent presence in the series...and when she's left out, it's usually met with complaints leading to her inclusion in an add-on. She's been present in the movies and TV shows, etc. But I will grant, in that department, Sonya holds the edge as Kitana was frequently portrayed as a secondary character.

- Distinction
Now, I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on the matter, but from what I know about marketing, a character like Kitana...who has more distinct mainstream gimmicks...is more likely to be remembered and instantly recognized by a casual fan. Based on look, a blue ninja woman weilding fans is a reasonably memorable image. Obviously, Kitana isn't the only dark-haired ninja woman and she isn't the only fan-weilder...but IMO, that's more than the blonde army woman.

- Representation
Now this a deeper sort of thing that I'm sure not many will agree with...but when I think of what character is or should be an "icon" of their franchise or whatever, I look for characters who represent their franchise in terms of theme. In terms of character and theme, I believe Kitana suits and represents Mortal Kombat better than Sonya. A somewhat fantastical character with a twisted and dark past.
This isn't favoritism...because is Sub-Zero accepted as an icon because of his down-to-Earth personality? Scorpion? They have the gimmicks and other stuff in spades...but they, as characters, also suit Mortal Kombat.



Now see the problem here is nowhere in MK2 is it said her change was sudden or drastic. Her ending states she learned the truth about her past "through her years working as an assassin." How exactly Kitana responded to the revelations of her past and what led to her changing is left to interpretation. Apparently you and ErmacMK5 interpret is an overnight switch from black to white....I, on the other hand, never saw it that way. I do believe there was a period of denial and hesitation before a gradual change which continues to haunt her.

Now true, that's very much interpretation because it's never been outright stated. But this also true with almost every other character in Mortal Kombat. This is something I mentioned in the very beginning of my storyline analysis thread.....MOST of what makes the MK story and the character's "deep" is what we read into it. It's as true with pretty much every other character as it is with Kitana. The difference between Kitana and some other characters is explaining her actions is easier to justify because we have more info on her....for example, citing her seeming overcompensation being partially influenced by her years of serving Shao Kahn.



In regards to Kitana....this is true to a certain extent. But I wouldn't call that a lack of potential. All it means is Kitana's story, as is, has run it's course. I've said frequently, at great length, that if Kitana is to continue on, she needs a change. There are plenty of facets to her personality yet to be explored. We have actually begun to see a new one emerge with Kitana's rising stress which is starting to break her down. Kitana's "desire to stop evil" is taking its toll on her...which could potentially lead to a new direction...again, as I've discussed at great length in the past.

I disaree that Sonya has shown more than Kitana. The problem with Sonya is she has yet to be truly challenged. We all know she values her friends over anything...yet has anything come of it yet aside from vaguely motivating her to fight? What Sonya needs if she's to continue is something or someone who challenges her in a NEW way. Developing Jax's corruption is an good solution. What Sonya needs is a real test as opposed to the new villain of the week. It's not that Sonya has more potential than Kitana....it's just the potential Sonya's always had has yet to be really explored.

I agree on Mileena..and I was always a supporter of she being among the survivors into the new generation. Freeing Mileena of her rivalry with Kitana opens up several new possiblities for her and I believe she is a character worth exploring. Personally, I was most interested in how she'd deal with evils worse than her....but that's another topic.

But see to take it back to the icon discussion....because you mentioned feeling Sonya is more iconic due to her unexplored potential while Kitana has been kind of worn out......personally, I would hold the character who's potential HAS been explored in higher regard as an icon than the one who's potential has not.

Although Kitana was bad in MK2 and Good in Mk3, her switch was certinly not an overnight sudden decision. it took years as the revelations of her past were pieced together. My interpretation of it is taht she was biding her time, waiting till she finally pieced everything together and saw the chance to plot Kahn's downfall when she met the Earth heroes.

Although Edenia ahs featured prominently in Kitanas story, she ahs always been doing something different in her appearances, and even in the story itself when she ahstn appeared. What ahs Sonya done other than fight good? Not much, certainly not as much as Kitana.

In terms of Icon status, well it seems pretty obvious that MK2 is the most recognised and most well liked game with both the Mk community and non-mk community (vaiours polls on various sites tell us this, things like IGNs top games etc tell us this). This among other things lead me to the conclusion that Kitana and Mileena both beat Sonya in Icon status, since she wasnt included in the game.

Also if you look at gaming websites which are gaming websites in general, eg Gamefaqs.com (meanign theyre not Mk fan sites, or RPG fansite, or Soul Calibur fan sites) and the boards on there, it seems obvious that the Ninjas are far more recognised and far more popular that any other female.

Over there they run various forum games (eg All time best game of which MK2 came highest out of the mk games, Best character, Best female characters, all time best fighting game character, as well as all things time best rpg character etc etc). In on of the games, Kitana made the top 122 female characters, and is still going strong in the Top 40 (ahead of the likes of Samus Arun, Tifa Lockheart and many other big names). Now Im not saying she is 'bigger' than them, but the fact she holds her own in contests with characters of that ilk says something- receiving many nominations to enter the contest. (Sareena also amde the contest with a little help from me making it to the Top 80). Sonya received NO nominations in that what-so-ever, yet Mileena, Kitana and Jade did, and only Kitana made it.

Also in the 'Save My Mortal Kombat Character' contests (of which there have been two) Kitana has done the best out of all the women, coming 4th and 5th, Mileena was 3rd and 18th and Sonya came 10th and 25th respectively. So although all the females went down place, overall Sonya did worst out of them all (and indeed all the original characters).

In addition Kitana has made a lot of the contests about video game characters, and Mileena ahs amde a few also. Sonya and Jade have not.

Kitana and Mileena also featured Top Female Gaming characters or Fighting characters, something like that, on Ign, with I think Kitana being higher. I dont remember Sonya being there.

I still think Kitana and Mileena win out for Icon status among the gaming community. Ed Boon also said something about them being the Scorpion and Sub Zero of the MK females in and MKD video.

In addition, past choices in rosters make me beleive Ed Boon doesnt really seem to know which characters are the most well liked, even among the MK community. At the end of the day he includes his favourites.

Sadly, both Sonya and Kitana will be in the game. Everyone must leave out....let's say Mileena? She is just as iconic as Kitana. Oh, I cannot forget Tanya!

your opinion is not FACT.

i am living proof that kitana is recognized by NONE MK fans, ALSO by none video game fans. i flash my Tatoo and they know who she is.

if any one got a tatoo of Sonya and flashed it, a none MK fan would be clueless. its a look that is common and sonya wouldnt be the first guess. Mileena is more recognizable then sonya.

1 ~ the color
2 ~ the fans
3 ~ the sais
4 ~ the teeth

make them both the most recognizable females of MK
(both were also in the most popuar mk game).
Sonya doesnt have anything that sets her apart from the rest of the cast. nothing Memorable to a none mk fan.



im sure both will be in the game.
LMAO i miss Sonya bashing w/ you good times.

It'll be funny if both make the cut ha, ha

Not because he's also a fan of Kitana but XiahouDun84 always brings up good points, and I always enjoy reading his messages.



Yeah, good times . Haven't heard from you in so long! ...the point about Sonya being more relatable and therefore people liking her more is a bit dumb. Only because she's from earth doesn't mean people are going to like her that much more and feel attached to her. Look at Jax, Stryker, Kano, all from earth and they don't seem to have a huge fanbase.

Or Cage for that matter ^ lol

I didn't cite any names exactly because I hadn't picked out who was on their way to making this another "My Character Wins" post. I just remember noticing as I went through the thread that there were people who held Kitana in higher regard (which is fine) going about praising her the wrong way, by bashing her competition. I can't even remember who started it or who gave way to it, that's why that statement was vague.




If there's one thing I hope no one has the balls to accuse me of is of letting my personal favorites in the MK cast determine how I act in discussions about the overall cast. Whenever I'm forced to praise/defend a character in a discussion, I always try to use actual reasoning to back whatever I say up rather than my personal feelings. You'll notice that my last post didn't have anything along the lines of "Sonya deserves it more cuz she's so awesome!" or "Sonya is much cooler than Kitana" or has better moves, is prettier, or can kick her ass any day. THOSE are stupid reasons that come from personal feelings toward a character. My reasons are far from resembling these. Whatever I said about Sonya was analyzing her as a character, not as my favorite character. If i say I'm not gonna let the fact that she's my favorite get in the way of my statements, then it's because I'm not gonna let the fact that she's my favorite get in the way of my statements.



I will have to agree with you that MKII is held in higher regard overall as opposed to MKI. And also true that Kitana was present in 2 and Sonya was not. But you're keeping your frame of mind too similar to an MK fan's frame of mind, and when it comes to deciding which character is iconic or isn't, you have to keep your mind open enough so that you can imagine what a non-MK fan might think. An MK fan might very well remember MK II better than MK I. But when it comes down to it, MK I has a lot of things going for it that MK II doesn't. True, it is inferior in gameplay, etc., but MK 1 has all the shock value. When MK 1 game out, that's when people were apalled by the violence of video games, that's when people were shocked at the Fatalities, that's when people looked at Mortal Kombat with wide eyes, persay. MK II, though better in gameplay and overall more well-received by fans and fighting game fans, did not have that. People who played MK II had already seen what MK 1 had to offer, and so were not nearly as shocked, taken aback, and impressed by the game. THIS is why I strongly believe that MK1 is a big factor in which characters are most remembered and most iconic. People who are not fans of MK and have never played one of the games are much more likely to remember the fuss of Mortal Kombat's arrival in the gaming world as opposed to MK II's nice gameplay. Thus, the characters of MK1 are much more deserving of labels like "classics" and "icons". Sonya has also been featured more times in MK as opposed to Kitana, and the fact that there are complaints when Kitana is not around doesn't really speak to the longevity topic you brought up. I'm sure that if Sonya was excluded from the next MK, there would be bitching everywhere as well.



You know, you have a point here, so let me start by recognizing that. I do agree that gimmicks play a part in determining how recognizable a character is to casual or non-fans. I think this is a huge part of why Sub-Zero and Scorpion are the cliche "favorite characters", and surely, why Kitana has part of her total fans.

But now let's consider something else. Now, just like you, I'm no marketing expert, nor am I an avid fighting game lover (meaning I don't know everything there is to know about every popular fighting game). But I've come to notice something over the years, and that's the distinction that blond females have in fighting games nowadays. It seems like almost every popular fighting game out there has that one blond chick who's always around and is always carrying a large fan base with her. Nina has a large fan base in the Tekken series (I can say this with certainty because I'm a Tekken fan and play around in the forums). Is there anything remotely different about Nina? Of course not. No fans, no ninja attire, no insane weapon or mask.... she's just a hot blond chick. Yet she's up there on top when it comes to Tekken favorites, Tekken classics, Tekken icons. Then you got Sarah Bryant in Virtua Fighter that I know of, and a couple others whose names I don't know in other fighters.

So just as Kitana has the ninja gimmick going for her, Sonya has the token blond sex symbol gimmick going for her, which is used over and over again nowadays, as you can see. And BECAUSE there are many ninjas in MK, and many other female ninjas in MK, and many other dark-haired female ninjas in MK, I say that Sonya still beats Kitana in terms of how recognizable she is to the non-fan or casual fan.



I'm also going to agree with you on your point that Mortal Kombat favors the 'mystic' atmosphere and, thus, the 'different' and more 'out-there' characters represent that better through their appearence. But although this is a valid point that I agree with, I think that you're straying in making this point. I honestly don't think a character's iconic status is determined by how well that characters represents Mortal Kombat's "mysticism". Yes, it does help a character in getting some extra fans in the end, but it's far from a decisive factor, and far from a big edge for those characters who fit the description. I mean, just as you said this, I could just as easily argue that this also favors Sonya because it makes her stand out among the other females in terms of appearence. Of course this would also be a valid point to make! But it's something not that worth mentioning because, like I said, I honestly don't think it's a major factor in determining the character's iconic status in the series.



Okay, right now I'm gonna go with you're right about Kitana learning about her past through the years. You're a bigger fan of hers than I am, so I'm willing to bet you're right. But consider this: even I, who am a big MK fan, didn't know this about her! ErmacMK5, who I'll assume is also a big fan (for being here), didn't know this! So I doubt very much that a casual fan or a non-MK fan would know this. Non-MK-fans or very casual fans would see Kitana being evil in one game, then good in the next game, and instantly interpret that as a sudden change. And since we're talking about how casual and non-fans react to the characters, this is what you have to consider, and not the "deeper" roots of Kitana's storyline. So, in the end, the fact that Kitana's change might not have been drastic is just useless in such a discussion. If it was a discussion where you were trying to change my first impression of Kitana, then it would be a very valid statement that might even make me reconsider her as a character. This isn't the case, however.




Yes, but this new facet of Kitana does more to support Kitana being kicked out of future MKs than it does to support her staying in! I do think this sickness Kitana is feeling because of all the fighting is a very interesting facet to her personality and I was very intrigued when I read it, but how the heck could this new facet of her personality be explored in a way that reinforces her staying in MK? A person who's sick of all the fighting has more reasons to leave the fighting than to continue the fighting. The facets of Sonya's personality that's been shown in the past, on the other hand, are much easier to explore in a way that restarts her as an MK character for the future.



Good points on Sonya. I'm also gonna agree with you Sonya needs some significant changes in order to stay strong in future installments. But as i said, and as you just said, those changes can come very easily BECAUSE of the different facets of her personality and BECAUSE of her unexplored potential. This isn't true for Kitana, as much as I'd like for it to be. Kitana could surely continue strong in the future installment with some changes to her storyline and personality, but those changes are much harder to make BECAUSE of what we've seen from her in the past.

Agree with you on Mileena entirely. I deeply hope she'll return and continue and they'll explore her new desires more intensely. Great idea on how she'd deal with evils worse than her! I'll have to give that some thought!

The reason I hold a character with unexplored potential in higher regard when it comes to being iconic is because this means that Sonya has a broader personality than some other characters. It means she's such a strong character overall that she's been able to hold her own in all seven games with one primary intent and personality, and STILL, she can continue on by having new facets of her personality explored, and tapping into her extra potential.



I already adressed the MKII stuff up there. As for all those contents and competition with the characters, I haven't heard of 99% of those, so it's safe to say many other people haven't either, so many people haven't voted for their favorites in those past contents. And most contests held by official gaming sites are held by and winners are decided by a very select group of individuals, it honestly doesn't say much to me about the overall audience.

And as a final point to the shorter posts of MKF and some others, Sonya IS more relatable because of her origins and introduction to MK, regardless of your personal opinions. There is a reason why the heroes and protagonists of movies are always designed to be well-liked and well-received by the moviegoers. Consider that in your logic.

Both will be in I think... They are the two most iconic women from Mortal Kombat, and for the sake of balance they need at least 2 women fighters.

What, So, because YOU personally havent heard about something or taken part in something, its automatically irrelevant?? Yeah thats a really good way to look at something #rolls eyes# Perhaps if you opened mind and ventured outside the realm of Sonya then you WOULD have heard about these types of thing or encountered them before.
They arent voted on by 'select' panels, they are voted on by the general gaming community. You, me, Joe Bloggs from the road around the corner can vote.
The fact that it is not fighting game fan only, or specifically MK fans only, who vote in these things SHOULD tell you alot about the genreal gaming communities opinions. It certainly points in a huge way to Kitana and Mileena being the more recognised/well-known/liked MK females in the general gaming community (Mileena has also grown in popularity lately due to her use in MKD's early footage and he playboy appearance).

Hmmm, interesting points ^^ lots of debate over Sonya vs. Kitana in here lol. Good reads

I understand that and I hope no one thinks I'm only defending Kitana because she's my favorite.



I think in the end, it comes down to a question of who would be more likely to be remembered: a character who was there when it started....or a character who was there when it peaked? Ultimately, I think in this department, Kitana and Sonya more or less balance out.



But see here, I can see your point further proving why Kitana is more iconic. Ideally, an icon of a series should be a character who makes that series stand out amongst others. True, Kitana has similar characters to her within MK...therefore, if one is already playing MK they may ask themself "Why choose Kitana over Mileena or Jade or Tanya?" However, there are similar characters to Sonya in other games which makes one wonder "Why choose Sonya in Mortal Kombat when I can choose Cammy in Street Fighter, Nina in Tekken, etc?" An icon should draw a casual fan to the series by their distinction amongst other series.



Well as I said, I have a higher standard for what makes a character truly an "icon." An icon of series should be a character that when presented to a casual or non-fan you can say "THIS is Mortal Kombat." You introduce the faces of Mortal Kombat, you've got guys like Scorpion and Sub-Zero and Raiden. Add Sonya Blade.....that Sesame Street song pops into my head. "Which of these does not belong?"



Just for the record, I wasn't trying to apply Kitana's character development to the icon discussion. ErmacMK5 made a comment about Kitana's development...I don't know if he intended it as justification that Kitana was less iconic than Sonya or if it was simply a statement of her character....and I defended her development.

Ultimately though, how/why Kitana switched from evil to good doesn't affect her iconic status. No more than Sub-Zero's switch from neutral to good affects his. All the casual or non-fan would need to know...or more likely, would care to know unless he/she is interested in becoming a regular fan...is that Kitana was once an evil person who turned good.



Easy. Simply apply the age old and classic writing philosophy: "Always put your character where they DON'T want to be." Kitana is sick of fighting and wants nothing to do with it anymore. Therefore, FORCE her to fight.

Like just an example pulled from my ass:
After Armageddon, Kitana couldn't take it anymore and abandoned Edenia...wanting nothing to do with fighting or war anymore. She hides herself somewhere and tries to ignore and be ignored by the rest of the world. Then comes the next bad guy who decides he or she is going to host a new tournament and he/she...for some secret or sinister reason...must have Kitana present. So he/she starts sending assassins to provoke her out of hiding and forcing her to fight again. What does the villain want with her? Will Kitana find herself forced to be a hero again even though she doesnt want to?

And you can build from there. Now I could definitely add a lot more to that and flesh it out...but right there, I've opened up new possibilities for Kitana, set the stage for a new journey and story arc, and given internal conflict at the same time. And what makes this scenerio more effective...in my personal opinion...is because of how far Kitana's already come. She's a weary warrior who's seen it all...and we've seen most of it with her...and just wants to be left alone, but fate just won't let her.



See I feel the opposite of that. I point to Sub-Zero as an example. One of the reasons I hold Sub-Zero in high regard and believe him worthy of being an icon...aside from the obvious stuff...if because so much has been done with him. He is one of MK's most developed characters and a lot has happened in his storyline.

Now some people suggest that in a future MK, they should retire the current Subz and have him pass the name onto another. But I...and I'm not alone...feel that would be a waste of a character who's come so far and developed so much. His journeys should continue and he should be a character who is always part of Mortal Kombat. I feel the same way about Kitana. She has gone through so much and is also one of MK's more developed characters...that's why I lost almost all interest in the prospect of Kitana being retired and Jade replacing her in the new generation. I'm more interested in seeing Kitana continue because I've already seen her come this far.

Now as far as being iconic goes...like I said, I hold the character who's developed and grown in higher regard than the one who has not.

Why the hostility? All this tells me is that you're one of those 2-bit fans who idolize the closet shrine of their favorite character so often they'll take anyone else's words as blasphemy. Your "kind" of post makes me not want to waste my energy addressing it, but some of the things you said do require a reply, despite them being sandwiched by unecessary stupidity.

Like I said to Xiahou, I'm a big MK fan who spends more time in the MK "community' then any other existant one, so of course it's very valid for me to say that if I haven't heard of something, there's a high chance other people haven't either. What, am I some kind of loner? The only MK fan who doesn't know about any of the news or goings-on in the community? Instead of playing dumb just to try and demean me you should spend that talent of yours writing worthy replies to the discussion, establishing the qualities of your favorite character in a more relevant and much more grown-up way. Seems to me it is YOU who needs to get out of Kitana realm and join us in the above-8-years-old planet.

And how the hell are you gonna tell me every "top" list in the gaming world is completely composed by fans? Do tell me ho w you managed to get jobs in all the gaming web sites in the country at once! I say that most of these "competitions" or "top 10, 100, 1000" or whatever lists are made by a select group from experience. I've been to IGN, Gamestop, etc., often and seen the "top" lists and competitions they hold between different games, characters, etc. I hardly ever see an option for me to vote. Again, just because Kitana is your favorite and not mine doesn't make me a dumb-ass who can't possibly know anything about anything, and it doesn't make you the Walking Jar of Wordly Information. Grow.

Finally, there's no way for you to know who the hell is voting on whatever competitions you're talking about here. Even if these competitions and top lists happened the way you're saying (which you've done a terrible job of convincing me about), you still have no authorotative or monitoring position over any of them. How in the world are you gonna stand here and tell me you know exactly what "group of fans" or, worse, group of PEOPLE, are voting on what? Ugh, don't waste my time with stupidity.

If you plan on replying again, make sure your post is actually worth the read and makes some better and more factual points, or I'll just give up on you right here.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go ahead and address a post by someone who's actually writing something worth my reading in this whole conversation.

XiahouDun84 wrote:
"I understand that and I hope no one thinks I'm only defending Kitana because she's my favorite. "

Well, so far, nothing you've said made me think your motive comes only from her being your fave... unlike some other people.

"I think in the end, it comes down to a question of who would be more likely to be remembered: a character who was there when it started....or a character who was there when it peaked? Ultimately, I think in this department, Kitana and Sonya more or less balance out. "

They may very well balance out in that department if you were to assume that casual MK fans and non-MK fans are two groups with similar number of "members". There's no way to actually find out which of these two groups are bigger, of course; but if you ask me, I'd have to say that my common sense makes me think that there are more non MK fans out there than there are casual MK fans. If this were true, then it would be non-MK fans who'd become the major influence over which character is remembered the most, and as I've said, this would put Sonya in a higher spot because of MK1 and its shock value, basically.

"But see here, I can see your point further proving why Kitana is more iconic. Ideally, an icon of a series should be a character who makes that series stand out amongst others. True, Kitana has similar characters to her within MK...therefore, if one is already playing MK they may ask themself "Why choose Kitana over Mileena or Jade or Tanya?" However, there are similar characters to Sonya in other games which makes one wonder "Why choose Sonya in Mortal Kombat when I can choose Cammy in Street Fighter, Nina in Tekken, etc?" An icon should draw a casual fan to the series by their distinction amongst other series."

So what you just said is that one of the reasons you think Kitana a more iconic character than Sonya is her distinction as a character when compared to the characters of other fighters,

See, I see that as just a quality, and not a factor that makes her more iconic. Because when it comes to deciding what makes a character iconic, you have to go into a lot of cliches and realize that people who aren't fans of a series are gonna be more influenced by first impressions than deeper qualities. Let's say John Smith has never played Mortal Kombat before, then he looks at the cast for the first time. He'll probably see Kitana, Mileena, Jade, etc., and not instantly be able to distinguish them or hold any of them as his favorite. Why? Because he knows nothing about the series, no deep character qualities, nothing - all he has to go on is what he sees in front of him, and what that is is three or four ladies who kinda look alike. Then he might see Sonya, and the chances of him being instantly attracted to her as a character will be much higher than the previous ladies. Why? Because Sonya is the usual, expected, token blond sex symbol of this particular fighting game.

See? "Blond bombshell" has become a very big cliche of fighting games nowadays for a reason, as I've stated. That particular female is more attractive and stands out more to a person who's just being introduced to the cast (and I mean attractive in a different way, I'm not saying everyone has the hots for blonds). I honestly think there's a reason why almost every fighting game, like it's been said, has that one token blond bombshell with lots of fans.

"Well as I said, I have a higher standard for what makes a character truly an "icon." An icon of series should be a character that when presented to a casual or non-fan you can say "THIS is Mortal Kombat." You introduce the faces of Mortal Kombat, you've got guys like Scorpion and Sub-Zero and Raiden. Add Sonya Blade.....that Sesame Street song pops into my head. "Which of these does not belong?"

I can't really throw another point to smash that one because now we're going into the "opinions" territory, and attacking someone's opinion is just retarded.

Like you said, one of the factors that you consider when analyzing a character as an icon is how well that character represents the appeal of his/her franchise. That's not the case for me. Like I said, I truly think that people who aren't fans of a franchise are very unlikely to go into that franchise hoping to see a character who'll symbolize the game. They're much more likely to go into that unknown franchise hoping to see that one fighter who's gonna draw his/her eyes instantly and at first sight, without having to worry about deeper qualities. This being the case, Sonya takes the cake in terms of standing out more and being more easily remembered/recognized by non-MK fans.

"Just for the record, I wasn't trying to apply Kitana's character development to the icon discussion. ErmacMK5 made a comment about Kitana's development...I don't know if he intended it as justification that Kitana was less iconic than Sonya or if it was simply a statement of her character....and I defended her development.

Ultimately though, how/why Kitana switched from evil to good doesn't affect her iconic status. No more than Sub-Zero's switch from neutral to good affects his. All the casual or non-fan would need to know...or more likely, would care to know unless he/she is interested in becoming a regular fan...is that Kitana was once an evil person who turned good."

Oh, I see. So this is just something we 100% agree on, that such things don't influence how iconic a character actually is. Still, it was interesting to find that out.

"Easy. Simply apply the age old and classic writing philosophy: "Always put your character where they DON'T want to be." Kitana is sick of fighting and wants nothing to do with it anymore. Therefore, FORCE her to fight.

Like just an example pulled from my ass:
After Armageddon, Kitana couldn't take it anymore and abandoned Edenia...wanting nothing to do with fighting or war anymore. She hides herself somewhere and tries to ignore and be ignored by the rest of the world. Then comes the next bad guy who decides he or she is going to host a new tournament and he/she...for some secret or sinister reason...must have Kitana present. So he/she starts sending assassins to provoke her out of hiding and forcing her to fight again. What does the villain want with her? Will Kitana find herself forced to be a hero again even though she doesnt want to?

And you can build from there. Now I could definitely add a lot more to that and flesh it out...but right there, I've opened up new possibilities for Kitana, set the stage for a new journey and story arc, and given internal conflict at the same time. And what makes this scenerio more effective...in my personal opinion...is because of how far Kitana's already come. She's a weary warrior who's seen it all...and we've seen most of it with her...and just wants to be left alone, but fate just won't let her."

Very good, I like that path you put Kitana on.

But see, I didn't say that it was just impossible for Kitana to continue in next MK games because of her sickness of fighting. I just said that doing this would be much harder as opposed to Sonya, whose "bonus" facet of her personality that's been shown in the past makes her much more easy to flesh out and change up for new installments. Of course Kitana could continue in newer games, I wouldn't mind that at all, and it could be done quite well. But it comes back to what I said earlier, that doing this with her is much harder than doing it with Sonya, who still has loads and loads of untapped potential and untapped possibilities for a future story arch. This, in the end, makes her a more probable choice for a female in the next installments than Kitana, upping the many reasons why she should return and why she's always been and continues to be a worthy character, which once again goes back to what this thread was primarily asking (in a not very well-written way...).

"See I feel the opposite of that. I point to Sub-Zero as an example. One of the reasons I hold Sub-Zero in high regard and believe him worthy of being an icon...aside from the obvious stuff...if because so much has been done with him. He is one of MK's most developed characters and a lot has happened in his storyline.

Now some people suggest that in a future MK, they should retire the current Subz and have him pass the name onto another. But I...and I'm not alone...feel that would be a waste of a character who's come so far and developed so much. His journeys should continue and he should be a character who is always part of Mortal Kombat. I feel the same way about Kitana. She has gone through so much and is also one of MK's more developed characters...that's why I lost almost all interest in the prospect of Kitana being retired and Jade replacing her in the new generation. I'm more interested in seeing Kitana continue because I've already seen her come this far.

Now as far as being iconic goes...like I said, I hold the character who's developed and grown in higher regard than the one who has not"

I think this is where our opinions are gonna be different again, in a bigger way than we thought. You basically just said that another thing you highly consider when deciding how iconic a character is is that character's storylines in the past; how much has happened to that character, etc. I think differently once more. I think how much a character has been through is not that big of an influence over that character's iconic status. I do think that it helps to make a character more interesting and more complex, thus more likable to the constant MK fan who's following everything. But, IMHO, how iconic a character is is determined by much less profound things .
We're back to what I said before, that a character's iconic status is mostly decided by how non-fans see the character, which, in other words, means it's decided by things that aren't deep like a character's struggles in the storylines. It's determined by more superficial things like a character's appearence, how recognizable the character is, how long the character's been around to leave his/her mark, etc. Kitana's been through a lot in her past, true, but IMO, that doesn't help her iconic status. I honestly think Sonya has the upper hand in all that (or most of all that) which regulates how iconic a character is.

I'd also like to digress just for a little bit and kinda defend Sonya a bit here. I know you're not directly attacking her, but I just wanna say that there's no reason to label Sonya as stale. Again, I know you didn't just do that, but just as you enforced Kitana story-wise, I wanna do the same for Sonya.

It's true that Sonya's current type of storyline needs an update (meaning the "tough fighter who's out to get anyone who threatens what she values"). But Sonya's been around a hell of a long time, almost in every single MK installment, so she has to be doing something right story-wise as well. Though there are characters in MK whose storylines have been fleshed-out more, Sonya's still held her own and stayed strong story-wise through the many years she's been around. They had a primary, major facet of her personality to explore game after game, and they used that, reused that, switched it up, did all sorts of things to it to keep her interesting and likable, and to maintain her fan base large and strong, and along the way, they introduced new facets of her personality, making her all the more complex, all the more profound, all the more likable. These are ALL hints of an excellent character storywise. It goes back to what I said earlier about Sonya being such a strong character overall that she's held her own all these years and STILL has a hell of a lot of potential and possibilities for the future.


P.S.: I think someone said before something along the lines of "Kitana winz becuz Buun said she and Muhleena are lykez the feemale sub 0 and Scorpoin!" Please, whoever implied that, don't stoop to that level. Can't you see the obvious reasons why Boon said that?

Yeah, I would definitely say that Kitana, Mileena and Sheeva(because of the 4 arms mainly) are the most recognizable to a non-MK fan, Cammy or Chun-Li for non-SF fans, Orchid for non-KI fans and Nina for non-Tekken IMO

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think most non-fans would more likely remember MKII because that was MK at it's peak.



But does the numerous other ninja guys make Scorpion & Sub-Zero any less iconic? Does Dan, Akuma, and the other shotos make Ryu & Ken less iconic for Street Fighter? Dilutes them maybe, but they remain iconic regardless.

Now you're saying if someone plays Mortal Kombat, they might get drawn to Sonya because she's the only blonde and not another dark-haired ninja woman. But what I'm saying is someone like Kitana is more likely the character to get John Smith attracted to Mortal Kombat in itself. John Smith might be attracted to blonde bombshell characters, but like I said, what's going make him choose Mortal Kombat's blonde bombshell over Street Fighter's or Tekken's or DOA's? When marketing a character as an icon, you opt for character(s) who are more unique and/or gimmicky character....and that's where I believe Kitana surpasses Sonya.



Depends. A lot of people are drawn to certain games by their atmosphere and tone....Mortal Kombat fans are proof of that. I think a lot of fans, when presented with a character who is supposed to be an icon of their respective series would expect that character to be something of a standard for what that game is. If they were to present Sektor and Cyrax as THE icons of Mortal Kombat, the average joe would probably expect the game to be a futuristic sci-fi type of game....only to it be predominatly about ninja, gods, sorcerers, ete...with the sci-fi elements only playing a minor role. That might throw Joe off.

And like I said, I believe Kitana would be the more likely character to instantly draw Joe into Mortal Kombat and be recognized.

Not to say though that Sonya isn't iconic at all in this aspect....which is more reason why I'm confident they'll both be in this game. Kitana represents one kind of female hero....the stoic, disciplined, somewhat cold, brooding heroine. Sonya represents another type of female hero...the tough, in your face, brash, hot-headed heroine. And I think they'll want to include both to showcase both ends of the spectrum.
It's like the Justice League cartoon. They had Wonder Woman...which is obvious....and she is more like Kitana in she's the more disciplined, stoic, calm heroine....and they included Hawkgirl to represent the more hot-headed, brash heroine in order to contrast.



I'm not so sure there. I know there are fans who feel the same way you do in regard to Kitana. That she's had her time in the spotlight and enough has been done with her....maybe she should retire. However, there are some fans who feel Sonya has not always been a worthy character. Sonya's problem was things happen to her...but nothing comes of it. She encounters Kabal in MK3 and nothing really happened. She was forced to team with Jarek in MK4, and nothing really happened. She was introduced to Mavado in MK:DA and he defeated her...yet nothing really happened. Enslaved by Onaga, and nothing happened.
Sonya has maintained her fans due to her being the only character of her kind within Mortal Kombat and also because she has a dynamic personality. But that's not enough for other fans. And those people may ask why should Sonya get another chance to explore her untapped potential when she's already had several.

Personally, I couldn't really care less about Sonya coming back or not. In my opinion, there are more deserving characters, but I am more lenient when it comes to her as things can be done with her and she serves a relevent role in the story.



Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree again here. I don't consider this a huge factor in making a character an icon....but it's something I consider nonetheless.

"But does the numerous other ninja guys make Scorpion & Sub-Zero any less iconic? Does Dan, Akuma, and the other shotos make Ryu & Ken less iconic for Street Fighter? Dilutes them maybe, but they remain iconic regardless."

No, the numerous other ninjas don't make Sub and Scorp any less iconic, but they don't do anything to help them either. I can bet you anything Sub Zero and Scorpion would be much more iconic then they are now if they were the only ninjas in the game. If you ask me, here are the two biggest factors that contribute to Sub and Scorp's iconic statuses:

1) The fact that they were the first ninjas of Mortal Kombat (and paved the way for the future, less memorable ninjas). Sub Zero and Scorpion were the very first ninjas to show up in Mortal Kombat, and this obviously made their appearence more memorable than the other ninjas. Whereas one might've seen Sub and Scorp and gone "Wow, awesome!", that same one might've seen the future ninjas and gone "Cool, but I've already seen Sub Zero and Scorpion". This goes back to what I said earlier, that when a character is the first of its kind to show up in a series, that character will instantly have more going for him/her when it comes to being iconic. It's just another example that supports my previous statement that the fact that Sonya was the very first female of Mortal Kombat helps her in snatching the title of #1 iconic female of the series. It is also worth mentioning that countless posts by MK fans supporting Sonya as the most iconic cite one of the reasons for doing so is that she was the first female, so it's not just me who thinks this way.

2) The fact that they have one of the, if not the, most recognizable moves in MK. I can tell you from experience (having been an MK fan since childhood) that probably the biggest reason why Sub and Scorp are so iconic is their moves. Almost every non-MK-fan I've talked to cited the two ninjas as being his/her favorite in a manner such as this: "OH, I like the guy who freezes people!" or "OH, I love the guy who hooks you and brings you close!" It was never "Oh, I love the guy who has the deep storyline in all the MKs"! This is what I'm trying to say, that what makes a character iconic is more superficial than you think. But before I digress further, let me go on to say that this other reason for Sub and Scorp being iconic also helps Sonya's case. Sonya's Leg Grab is one of the most recognizable moves in the game, especially with the fans of the females. More times in my life I've seen and heard her Leg Grab being praised as "cool" or "awesome", and I honestly can't remember many instances where Kitana's moves were hailed in such a manner so often. Of course I actually HAVE heard people loving Kitana's fans (her fans is one of the reasons why Kitana actually IS iconic - again, a superficial but vital quality), but I'm being honest when I say that Sonya's Leg Grab is more popular, even moreso among non-fans/casual fans.

So in conclusion, the two biggest reasons why Sub and Scorp are big icons are also reasons that make Sonya deserving of being viewed as the most iconic female. When it comes to this, Sub-Zero, Scorpion, and Sonya are three characters that share the same qualities, or at least the more vital qualities. Again, you could argue against this by stating an opinion that's different than mine, but IMHO, the things I've said are made almost wholly factual by common sense.

As for Kitana, this just means that the numerous other female ninjas in the series aren't major setbacks against her being the most iconic, but they surely aren't anything that helps her out. See, what I'm trying to say is that the other female ninjas impede Kitana from standing out as much as she COULD stand out were she the only one of her kind. And like I mentioned before, this is an example of why Sonya is more capable of standing out among the rest of the females. This, of course, is pretty obvious, since I'm talking about appearence and nothing deeper.

"Now you're saying if someone plays Mortal Kombat, they might get drawn to Sonya because she's the only blonde and not another dark-haired ninja woman. But what I'm saying is someone like Kitana is more likely the character to get John Smith attracted to Mortal Kombat in itself. John Smith might be attracted to blonde bombshell characters, but like I said, what's going make him choose Mortal Kombat's blonde bombshell over Street Fighter's or Tekken's or DOA's? When marketing a character as an icon, you opt for character(s) who are more unique and/or gimmicky character....and that's where I believe Kitana surpasses Sonya."

We're basically re-stating things we've already stated before a second time here. You've already said that Kitana represents MK's mystical atmosphere better than Sonya and that Kitana is more gimmicky than Sonya. And I've already said that Sonya fits a very successful cliche of female fighters and THAT is where she shines more than Kitana.

Even if Kitana WAS more successful at keeping John Smith interested in MK, it wouldn't be Kitana herself who'd be doing this, but also Mileena and also Jade, etc - I'd say mostly Mileena. So even if what you said was 100% true, it can't be used as a reason why Kitana is the most iconic because it wouldn't be Kitana we're talking about anymore, but "female MK ninjas". Because Kitana has other characters that are very similar to her, she loses her chance to really stand out and really shine through her appearence and this decreases the appeal she might otherwise have had. Sonya is the opposite here, able to stand out among the other females flawlessly, which increases her instant appeal to a casual or non MK fan. Now what you said is true: this makes her similar to the other token blond bombshells of fighters. But you can't ignore the fact that this is a cliche that is SUCCESSFUL, which is why it's so often used. I couldn't tell you exactly WHY it's so successful (again, not a marketing expert), but the fact is that it is, otherwise there wouldn't be so many token blond females in games, and they wouldn't be so popular. Should Nina be taken out of Tekken just because of Sonya and Sarah's existence? No, because it would make a shit load of fans pissed, and they would be taking away one of Tekken's most iconic characters. Same with Sonya.

It's almost as if the expected blond bombshell of fighting games are BUILT UP to be the iconic female of the game, the one that stands out amid the rest of the females of the game, and the one who represents the tough-sexy side of the game (remember the majority of fighting fans are teen males). I can almost BET that this is what the game creators are thinking about when they create that cliche female for their first installment. You just can't argue with cold facts that don't reside in the realm of opinion, and it's fact that the token blonds of fighters are more often than not the most/one of the most iconic characters of that fighter. This is why I say that Sonya has more going for her in the realm of distinction and exposure than Kitana, and why I say this is just another reason why I and many others see her as the most iconic female of Mortal Kombat.

"Depends. A lot of people are drawn to certain games by their atmosphere and tone....Mortal Kombat fans are proof of that. I think a lot of fans, when presented with a character who is supposed to be an icon of their respective series would expect that character to be something of a standard for what that game is. If they were to present Sektor and Cyrax as THE icons of Mortal Kombat, the average joe would probably expect the game to be a futuristic sci-fi type of game....only to it be predominatly about ninja, gods, sorcerers, ete...with the sci-fi elements only playing a minor role. That might throw Joe off.

And like I said, I believe Kitana would be the more likely character to instantly draw Joe into Mortal Kombat and be recognized."

Then why Kitana and not Mileena? Why Kitana and not Jade? See what I mean? The fact that Kitana fits the mystical aspect of Mortal Kombat isn't enough to make her the most iconic female, because so do her "counterparts". In the end, Kitana's appearence isn't something that really plays in her advantadge BECAUSE of the other females who resemble her, so I really don't think anything that has to do with Kitana's look should be considered something that helps her be the most iconic. IN other, fewer words, Kitana doesn't have a distinct appearence helping her case, but Sonya does, so this raises Sonya up once again.

In addition, while I do think that "magic/mysticism" is a big part of Mortal Kombat, it's not the only part. Mortal Kombat has a diverse cast for a reason: because the franchise itself is composed of different aspects that appeal to different types of players. I'm sure plenty of people would rather see a sci-fi movie than a mystical movie, so I'm sure plenty of people prefer what Sonya brings to the table more than what Kitana brings to the table. These two girls represent different sides of Mortal Kombat; just as Kitana fits the mystical aspect of MK much better (as do Mileena, Shang Tsung, and Raiden), Sonya fits the sci-fi/action aspect of MK much better (as do Jax, the Dragon clans, Cage, etc.) And this also goes back to what I said earlier: there are other females who represent the mystical side of MK just as well as Kitana... but there is only ONE female who represents the other side of MK. Another reason why Sonya is more deserving of being the most iconic, and another supporting basis as to why Sonya is a more distinct character among the females.

"Not to say though that Sonya isn't iconic at all in this aspect....which is more reason why I'm confident they'll both be in this game. Kitana represents one kind of female hero....the stoic, disciplined, somewhat cold, brooding heroine. Sonya represents another type of female hero...the tough, in your face, brash, hot-headed heroine. And I think they'll want to include both to showcase both ends of the spectrum.
It's like the Justice League cartoon. They had Wonder Woman...which is obvious....and she is more like Kitana in she's the more disciplined, stoic, calm heroine....and they included Hawkgirl to represent the more hot-headed, brash heroine in order to contrast."

This is why I also think both Sonya and Kitana are gonna be in the game. It's just like I just said: Kitana represents one side of MK, and Sonya represents the other. Although Sonya is the ONLY female of her kind and Kitana is not, I believe Kitana is still more iconic than the likes of Jade (and perhaps Mileena, though that's debatable), which is why I'm pretty sure Kitana will be coming back as well. But see, Sonya doesn't need to rely on her huge fan base in order to come back, because she already has other things like her distinc appearence and contribution to the game going for her, unlike Kitana. I'm not saying Kitana is not iconic either, but I am explaining why I continue to strongly believe Sonya is the MOST iconic - she just has more going for her, even though Kitana also has a lot under her belt.

Hey, it's funny you brought that up, because here's another reason why Sonya and Kitana are so iconic. They are opposites, so they appeal to different types of fans to the series, which can only be good for Boon and Co. Some people prefer the quieter, calmer, more analytical and calculating girl, and others, like me, prefer the tougher, violent, kick-ass-and-analyze-later girl with the stabbing sarcasm and superiority complex included (I do love how proud and condescending she acts). And, of course, some people like brunettes and others like blonds. I like both .

"I'm not so sure there. I know there are fans who feel the same way you do in regard to Kitana. That she's had her time in the spotlight and enough has been done with her....maybe she should retire. However, there are some fans who feel Sonya has not always been a worthy character. Sonya's problem was things happen to her...but nothing comes of it. She encounters Kabal in MK3 and nothing really happened. She was forced to team with Jarek in MK4, and nothing really happened. She was introduced to Mavado in MK:DA and he defeated her...yet nothing really happened. Enslaved by Onaga, and nothing happened.
Sonya has maintained her fans due to her being the only character of her kind within Mortal Kombat and also because she has a dynamic personality. But that's not enough for other fans. And those people may ask why should Sonya get another chance to explore her untapped potential when she's already had several.

Personally, I couldn't really care less about Sonya coming back or not. In my opinion, there are more deserving characters, but I am more lenient when it comes to her as things can be done with her and she serves a relevent role in the story."

She fought Mavado in DA? I'm not sure that happened...

Anyway, I've also heard comments similar to the ones you cited. Do I think Sonya is the most fleshed-out character in MK? Of course not. Do I think her storyline is the #1 reason why she has so many fans? Also, I can't say I do. But just because her storylines in the past haven't all been perfect, or haven't all been what they had the potential to be, it doesn't make her any less deserving of continuing in the future MKs. Despite a fault in her past storylines caused primarily by occasional stagnance, Sonya has undoubtedly established herself very well as the protagonist female of MK. Of course, you could also argue that Kitana established herself more than Sonya in this aspect. I personally don't believe she has. Sonya came into MK1 for a reason, and that reason was to be the female sidekick of the male lead, just like almost every movie has. That was her function. She's continued to serve that function unswervingly through the many installments. How? By never straying from what she was made to be. I mean, what do you generally expect from the female lead of a movie? You expect that female to be tough and courageous in order to match her male counterpart. You expected that female to be the "sexy symbol" of the story. You expect that female to always be by the male lead's side. You expect that female to always fight for one thing and one thing only: for resolution against the antagonist so that she and the other lead(s) may live in peace. This is exactly, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, what Sonya has always been in the Mortal Kombat games. So it's understandable that a bit of stagnance will come from serving the same purpose for so many years. I don't blame Sonya for this nor have I ever because she's done her job, she's done what she was made to do, and very well, which is why she continues to have so many fans.

I do consider Kitana a female lead in a way, because she's also a female with constant appearences and who fights for good. The thing is that Kitana's involvements have always been more with Outworld and Edenia than the Earthrealm, and that isn't the case for the protagonists or Mortal Kombat, who were created to fight for Earth's peace. This and the fact that Sonya has been more prominently exposed make her the female protagonist of Mortal Kombat in my eye.

I know I just said a shit load of things and I'm sorry for babbling on, but I've just established why it is Sonya deserves to continue on despite anything. Like you yourself said, she has a very relevant role in Mortal Kombat. So on top of the different personality aspects of Sonya we've been introduced to in the past, she also has this other aspect to ride on. If the MK Team don't want Sonya to continue on like she's always been, and they also don't wanna explore her value for those close to her and anger to lose them, then they have a THIRD option to explore her obvious talent as a female protagonist. This is the option I like the most (I even created an MK storyline that included this in a past thread), where the likes of Liu Kang/Shujinko leave the spotlight of protagonist and allow Sonya and a different male lead (I.E. Sub-Zero) to step further into that spotlight for future installments.

I think I've done a good enough job so far of proving the enormous amount of potential Sonya has for future games, and of proving just how this contributes to her dominant iconic status, on top of everything else I've stated before.