Damn, you guys type a lot lol. Good stuff though.

I'll concede that coming first is an edge Sonya retains....even though I personally think that's stupidest fucking reason for ANY character to become iconic.
(I mean it really is meaningless....Wonder Woman has become the iconic superheroine, but she was not the first. Not the second. Not even the third. And yet she is the iconic female superhero)



But this isn't fact. This is just your opinion based on what you know and believe. I'm sure you know plenty of people who remember Sonya over the other women and praise her Leg Grab as an awesome and memorable move. Me....I don't. Most people I know, liked Kitana better and remember her fans more. Growing up, I never knew anyone who used Sonya. So, from where I'm standing, the things I've said are based on factual common sense. Then look at what danadbab said about his tattoo and how everyone recognizes that's Kitana. I realize that's hardly definitive proof, but nonetheless.

So who's right?



But you're missing my point. An icon showcases the series to non-fans to draw them in...I never said Kitana was more likely to keep John Smith in. That could be anyone. What I said was Kitana, due to her mainstream design(sexy ninja) and reasonably unique choice of weapon & special attack would be more likely to make John stop and say "Hey, I should check this game out." That's the job of an icon from a marketing standpoint. You keep him there with whatever the hell else you've got....whether it be the blonde bombshell, the deformed femme fatale, the cyborgs, etc.

Being the token blonde bombshell character doesn't make that character THE icon of their series. I suddenly find myself wondering if I should've made this point because, aside from Nina in Tekken, what blonde bombshell is THE icon of their series? Street Fighter has Cammy....but Chun Li is THE female icon. DOA has Tina and several others...but Kasumi is THE icon. Does Soul Calibur even have a female icon? Now before you use this against me, how much like Kitana are these other characters, save a broad attribute or two? And also ask why these characters are the icons of their respective franchises...aside from some of them came first?



Why not Mileena? Scorpion AND Sub-Zero are the icons of MK...why not Kitana AND Mileena. If anything held Mileena down it's that she, until just recently, wasn't only relevant in relation to Kitana. It'd be like parading Venom around with no Spider-Man. However, I think now Mileena has individualized enough where neither she nor Kitana take anything away from each other. And Jade...you answered you're own question when talking about Scorpion & Sub-Zero. Kitana and Mileena came first and Kitana has always been the lead character where Jade has always been the sidekick.

But is the sci-fi element of Mortal Kombat its main element? Have the sci-fi elements ever factored into the main plot? No. At it's best, it's always been an upper-mid level sub-plot. One that some fans don't even want to be a part of. And yes, there are other female characters who can represent the mystical themes of Mortal Kombat....but how many are actual protagonists? You don't advertise a sidekick or supporting player as the main icon of a series. How many have the longevity of Kitana? And so on.



Exactly how I feel, except Sonya & Kitana reversed. Is Sonya iconic...sure. The MOST iconic....I don't see it.



It did. Read Mavado's Konquest. He fought and defeated Kabal, Sonya, Jax, and Kenshi.



Now I have to disagree there. Sonya is a protagonist of Mortal Kombat...but never the leading female protagonist (except for MK1 by default). While Sonya is the only Earth woman, what has she done or accomplished that affects the MAIN plotlines? All of Sonya's major accomplishments have involved the Special Forces sub-plot which is exactly that: a sub-plot. Kitana has always been more involved with Outworld and Edenia and those two realms have almost always been involved with the main plot. MK3, Sindel was the key to Shao Kahn's ruling Earth....who dealt with that? MK4, Shinnok escaped the Netherealm into which realm? MK:DA, who trained with Kung Lao and fought Quan Chi? Kitana wasn't even in Deception and she played a part there.

If there is/was a "main heroine" of Mortal Kombat, Kitana fits that bill better than Sonya....even if she isn't from Earth.

"I'll concede that coming first is an edge Sonya retains....even though I personally think that's stupidest fucking reason for ANY character to become iconic.
(I mean it really is meaningless....Wonder Woman has become the iconic superheroine, but she was not the first. Not the second. Not even the third. And yet she is the iconic female superhero)"

I'm not a big DC fan, so I can't risk commenting on Wonder Woman. The only character I CAN talk about with confidence and certainty in this whole thing is Sonya, and when it comes down to it, the fact that she was the first of her kind is indeed a factor that contributes highly to her iconic status. You may think it's stupid, but for reasons I've stated before, it's just something that happens more often than not and DID happen in MK, IMO, partially thanks to the impact of MK1 in the overall gaming world. Sonya being the first ever female Kombatant does indeed raise her up as a top female icon.

"But this isn't fact. This is just your opinion based on what you know and believe. I'm sure you know plenty of people who remember Sonya over the other women and praise her Leg Grab as an awesome and memorable move. Me....I don't. Most people I know, liked Kitana better and remember her fans more. Growing up, I never knew anyone who used Sonya. So, from where I'm standing, the things I've said are based on factual common sense. Then look at what danadbab said about his tattoo and how everyone recognizes that's Kitana. I realize that's hardly definitive proof, but nonetheless.

So who's right?"

It is not my opinion based on what I know and believe. It is me stating a fact that comes from my experience with friends and acquaintances from my childhood who also liked video games.

Now I'll definitely give you the benefit of the doubt, since I wasn't around when you were growing up. It's very possible that throughout your years playing MK, you encountered a bunch of Kitana fans. Given I do find it almost impossible that you never saw anyone using Sonya and I don't really believe it, but that's not the important part of what you said. From my experience playing MK with others, Sonya was often the more well-liked female by those who weren't nearly as big fans of the franchise as I was/am. Then again, I grew up in Brazil, so who knows, maybe Brazilians like Sonya, lol. But yeah, maybe when you were growing up, your friends shared in your interest of Kitana, and that made her the most popular one in your circle of acquaintances. We can't even argue about or discuss against things like this.

Still, just the fact that I HAVE come across a lot of non-hardcore-fans who enjoyed Sonya's move set far more than Kitana's or the other females makes me believe that her Leg Grab is indeed a very well-recognized and well-liked move. And even if that wasn't the case, current times would still prove this to me. Lots of people were pissed over Sonya losing the Leg Grab in the last gen games, and lots of people want her to get it back in the future. Would people even care if this move wasn't worth the complaints? I still think it's just simple fact that the Leg Grab is a very well-recognized move by fans and non-fans alike, and this, like in Sub and Scorp's case, helps Sonya, so it just goes back to what I was saying before again.

As for the tattoo thing, it bears repeating that we didn't grow up near each other, and we still don't live near each other. So the people around me loved Sonya, the people around you and danadbab loved Kitana, the people who visisted Miami Beach as a kid loved Cage, the homeless guy from Mississipi loved Kano, and so on. When it comes to our personal and very limited experiences, nobody can be right about something like this. You know, this does kinda defeat the purpose of me even mentioning my own experiences. Thankfully, like I said, I still have current times on my side.

"But you're missing my point. An icon showcases the series to non-fans to draw them in...I never said Kitana was more likely to keep John Smith in. That could be anyone. What I said was Kitana, due to her mainstream design(sexy ninja) and reasonably unique choice of weapon & special attack would be more likely to make John stop and say "Hey, I should check this game out." That's the job of an icon from a marketing standpoint. You keep him there with whatever the hell else you've got....whether it be the blonde bombshell, the deformed femme fatale, the cyborgs, etc."

But you're again giving Kitana credit she alone doesn't deserve. You're saying her sexy ninja design and interesting choice of weapons and specials are what benefit her... well, what about the other female ninjas? They're sexy, too. They got nice weapons, too - I've heard Mileena's Sais praised quite a few times myself. There are others who have nice move sets, too! I personally think Mileena's move set is far more interesting than Kitana's. Point is, Kitana shares much of her design and visual qualities with other characters, so like I said before, I think anything related to her appearence shouldn't even be considered in her benefit, because she just doesn't have enough to stand out from the other girls, and there are other candidates like her to make John stop and say "I should check this game out".

I also personally believe you're thinking about this whole thing in an exagerated marketing perspective. You're the first person I've seen since this whole "iconic characters" thing started who actually believes so strongly that an icon's only purpose is to sell the game. I'll bet nobody before you was thinking about that when considering the top iconic characters. Here's what I actually believe everyone has been thinking about; they've been considering which MK characters are the most remembered when the words "Mortal Kombat" comes up, and they were thinking about which characters have made the most appearences to leave their mark in the game over the years, and they were thinking about which characters have been branded into the "MK Hall of Fame" after all these years - I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "marketing" thing actually never crossed anyone's mind. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I actually do think that many of those who are in charge of such games consider the same thing you're considering when creating characters. But we are not in charge of any video game company, we're just fans. So when thinking about the most iconic characters, we're not going around worried about which character sold the most copies of MK to people, and which character made Boon the most millions. For countless reasons I and others have stated before, Sonya continues to be the most deserving female in terms of status.

"Being the token blonde bombshell character doesn't make that character THE icon of their series. I suddenly find myself wondering if I should've made this point because, aside from Nina in Tekken, what blonde bombshell is THE icon of their series? Street Fighter has Cammy....but Chun Li is THE female icon. DOA has Tina and several others...but Kasumi is THE icon. Does Soul Calibur even have a female icon? Now before you use this against me, how much like Kitana are these other characters, save a broad attribute or two? And also ask why these characters are the icons of their respective franchises...aside from some of them came first?"

It doesn't make the character THE icon of the series, it just helps the character in becoming an icon due to a considerable fan base, a fan base from which a small fraction is made up of fans who like the character's distinct appearence as opposed to the others (never did I say this is the only reason Sonya is the most iconic female, on the contrary, I've listed numerous). No, this isn't the BIGGEST help in the world for characters of the fighting genre, and honestly, Sonya has much more important edges in her favor worth mentioning than being the blond bombshell of MK.

Never will this cliche benefit be all a female character needs to be an icon. The character needs more. This is exactly why Cammy isn't the star female of Street Fighter: Cammy has the blond fighter chick thing going for her and Chun Li doesn't, but Chun Li has just a shit load of other qualities that make her worthy of being THE icon. Oh, and I should mention that one of the most obvious reasons I consider Chun Li the most iconic female of Street Fighter is the fact that she is the original female - I think others would agree. Then you have the "recognizable moves" thing, etc. You might have noticed that I just mentioned the same two things that I mentioned for Sub Zero, for Scorpion, and for Sonya. You should notice a pattern here in this talk about icons in the fighting games.

Oh, and this reminds me; even though Cammy doesn't have that much going for her other than the blond fighting chick, look at the things she still managed to get just from shit like this! If I'm not mistaken, Cammy has had more appearences in Street Fighter than many other pretty significant characters. I'll bet you anything that if Cammy resembled Chun Li in appearence, she wouldn't have gotten a third of the attention she gets.

You went on to list other games where the token blond bombshell is not THE icon, and to that, I just mention again that "never will this cliche benefit be all a female character needs to be an icon", much less THE icon. I've said before that I don't know much about games like DOA, but even so, I can be almost certain that the token blondie of DOA doesn't have nearly as much going for her as Sonya does - she's just getting a little push from her appearence. I also don't know that much about Soul Calibur, but what I do know is that Sophitita fits the cliche description we're throwing around here, and I also do know that she's been featured in every game. Oh, and I was just told that she's the top search in Soul Calibur Wiki. That already tells me something without me even having to go into a bunch of SC forums making polls. I didn't really get the last two questions you asked though. Are you asking how these characters are similar to Kitana? If so, appearence-wise they're nothing like her, and that's as far as I can go without digging deeper into the games I don't know about.

"Why not Mileena? Scorpion AND Sub-Zero are the icons of MK...why not Kitana AND Mileena. If anything held Mileena down it's that she, until just recently, wasn't only relevant in relation to Kitana. It'd be like parading Venom around with no Spider-Man. However, I think now Mileena has individualized enough where neither she nor Kitana take anything away from each other. And Jade...you answered you're own question when talking about Scorpion & Sub-Zero. Kitana and Mileena came first and Kitana has always been the lead character where Jade has always been the sidekick."

Okay, I'll start with a personal opinion and say that only having a bunch of ninjas being icons of MK is just retarded. Sub Zero, Scorpion, Kitana, and Mileena? Wtf? A person is gonna look at something like this and think MK is some weird fighting spin-off of Ninja Gaiden or something. I honestly think variety comes into play when the icons of a series are being decided upon.

And all you really did here was propose that maybe Kitana AND Mileena share the same iconic status. To discuss this, we'd end up going back to the realm of opinion, and we need to stay away from that because different opinions never lead to anything concrete. The fact I laid out before you in my last post still remains strong, that Kitana shares her visual qualities with other females of the game and thus, Sonya has the upper hand when it comes to visual individuality, being more eye-catching, however you wanna put it. Valid point on Jade, she wouldn't make a good icon because of her sidekick purpose in early games.

"But is the sci-fi element of Mortal Kombat its main element? Have the sci-fi elements ever factored into the main plot? No. At it's best, it's always been an upper-mid level sub-plot. One that some fans don't even want to be a part of. And yes, there are other female characters who can represent the mystical themes of Mortal Kombat....but how many are actual protagonists? You don't advertise a sidekick or supporting player as the main icon of a series. How many have the longevity of Kitana? And so on."

The sci-fi element of MK may not be the most prominent one, but it IS a part of MK nonetheless, and it is an aspect of MK that includes quite a few well-received characters, Sonya being the obvious one. The fact that Sonya is part of THAT element and not the mystical one does not whatsoever diminish the many qualities of hers I've already pointed out, or the many reasons why I see her as the top female icon. This never stopped her from getting a large fan base, so why should it stop her from being a top icon? Even so, you're still planning your statements based on your idea that an icon is all about marketing and has to sell the main theme of the game to non-fans. I honestly think this is something only Boon might think about, as we fans consider other factors more important than that one. There's no use in turning all the focus to one of these many factors just because it favors Kitana, all while ignoring the other, more vital ones I've mentioned all along.

"Exactly how I feel, except Sonya & Kitana reversed. Is Sonya iconic...sure. The MOST iconic....I don't see it."

Sorry, Xiahou, but you're kinda ignoring parts of my post. I mentioned why I saw Sonya as the top icon by condensing my many previous reasons into few words (her distinct appearence over Kitana, her role in the series, etc.) I've been saying that Kitana just doesn't have the ability to stand out visually as well as Sonya does for obvious reasons - while you can argue that Kitana has a better role in the story, there's no arguing against something that's right there anytime you look at the roster.

"It did. Read Mavado's Konquest. He fought and defeated Kabal, Sonya, Jax, and Kenshi."

Oh, please, I can't tell you how many things contradict each other in that Konquest mode. It's just useless to take anything from that mode seriously if it wasn't stated in MK:D's intro.

"Now I have to disagree there. Sonya is a protagonist of Mortal Kombat...but never the leading female protagonist (except for MK1 by default). While Sonya is the only Earth woman, what has she done or accomplished that affects the MAIN plotlines? All of Sonya's major accomplishments have involved the Special Forces sub-plot which is exactly that: a sub-plot. Kitana has always been more involved with Outworld and Edenia and those two realms have almost always been involved with the main plot. MK3, Sindel was the key to Shao Kahn's ruling Earth....who dealt with that? MK4, Shinnok escaped the Netherealm into which realm? MK:DA, who trained with Kung Lao and fought Quan Chi? Kitana wasn't even in Deception and she played a part there.

If there is/was a "main heroine" of Mortal Kombat, Kitana fits that bill better than Sonya....even if she isn't from Earth."

What do you mean she hasn't done anything to affect the main plotlines? Just because she isn't the one who defeats the main boss doesn't mean she's instantly out of the picture! Game after game, the girl's been right there by Liu's and the other male protagonists' sides, always battling the main threat until it's taken down! If the MK games were movies, you bet your ass she'd be the lead female, the girl who embarks on the adventure with the male protagonist(s) agaisnt the antagonist. Just because Sonya has her own agenda in the process doesn't diminish her inclusion in the main storylines, it just makes her all the more complex and it lets us know she can multitask well.

You say Kitana has always been involved with Outworld and Edenia and those realms are always involved with the main storyline... Hello? Earth is also always involved in the main storylines, whether it's being threatened or its warriors are rallying up. And those three examples you gave of Kitana's involvement in the main plots are just that: examples of Kitana's involvement in the main plot. All you proved is that Kitana is indeed often involved in the main plot, just as I did the same with such points that I thought were pretty obvious. I know you're a big fan, but I honestly think that right now, you've just exagerated Kitana's past actions way too much so that she would seem to be the center of the main plots.

Having said that, I still maintain that Sonya was created with the purpose of being the female protagonist of MK, the usual female lead who sides with the actual main protagonist, and she's always served that purpose whenever she showed up in a new installment. There's just no arguing against the FACT that Sonya's always fought against the antagonist of the storylines by Liu's side and by the side of the male lead(s): that is the purpose of a female lead, and that's the purpose Sonya has always fufilled time after time. Kitana is also a lead character, and although I'd consider her involvement in the main plot significant, it's never as straightforwardly laid out as Sonya.

Well, I'm actually not gonna say NEVER. I WILL admit that there was a time where Kitana was just as much of the female lead as Sonya was. MK:DA. Now there's an installment where Kitana acted and served in the same purpose that Sonya's always acted and served. You could even argue that her involvement in the main plot was slightly bigger. But we're talking one instance out of countless more. I mean, look at MK4! They had Sonya, yeeeet again, serving as the female lead, siding with the other protagonists to bring down Shinnok, while Kitana was being held hostage in order to motivate Liu Kang. This decision that the MK Team made is just a second reason why I've always regarded Sonya as a much more concrete female lead than Kitana.

Sonya is not a female lead: she is just another fighter who HAPPENS to be female.

They're both leaders in their "own way" Sonya takes charge of situations, thus she's a leader in that sense.

Kitana well...she's a Princess and has 10,000 year of experience and is a key characteri of Edenia...nuff said.

You know, after seeing your amazing arguments, solid reasons, and incredible post, I just might have to agree with you. After all, you did just completely smash everything I've said so far in this thread. I'm apalled.



That's a pretty good way to think about it, I guess... know for a fact both girls are more or less lead characters, so I can respect someone thinking they're both as integral due to what difference they bring to the series. I mean, personally, from what I've gathered through the years, Sonya generally fits the protagonist female role much more straightforwardly, persay, than Kitana (due to what I've previously stated), but I can't argue with your opinion.

Sonya.

Kitana is popular but reasonably speaking, Sonya is the lead female character. She's been there since the beginning and has been reinvented. She has a much more recognisable appearance than Kitana. Kitana has been neglected alot over the past few games, If you were to take what Midway has wrote for both Kitana and Sonya, without what fans have speculated about them. Sonya comes out alot better. Kitana is stale and unoriginal. Besides, if the Edenian monarchy plot was to continue, Sindel and/or Jade are good enough characters to carry it on, Kitana is unnecessary. Jax isn't a good enough character to continue the OIA plot without Sonya, and new characters wouldn't be either. Sonya is needed for that. And as the first lady of Mortal Kombat, she's a much more iconic status than Kitana.

I'm not sure what is being gained from this thread except some aggravation. Kitana fanboys and Sonya fanboys will never be able to happily coexist.

I would be surprised to see just one these characters make it onto the final roster, but as the Midway team has shown in the past, they seem to have an affinity to Sonya more so than Kitana. Both characters are iconic in their own way. Both represent strong females and have the ability to be the lead female in the games they are in. However I feel that Kitana, even when absent from a game, is still deeply involved in the story. She was a part of MK4's story and played a large part in MKD's story despite being non playable.

If only one character were to make it, I'd have to say I'd believe Kitana is the more iconic and the more unique of the two. Her story has always had layers, and while her goals at times would benefit more of a subplot, she always had a role within the main plot. Sonya started off as my favorite character, but Kitana was easily able to steal that title from her and I don't think I'm alone in that. I've known people who have not purchased MK games because of Kitana's absence, and are one of the first people to pick up the expansion game when Kitana is added to the roster. That resonates with me.

However like I said I would be surprised if one character was left out for the others inclusion. I think it's a strong possibility that both will be playable because both are iconic, but in their own ways.

Just a quick 5 minute doodle that this thread inspired... I think it fits for it. ;)

Hehe, that actually made me laugh, thanks for that!

Well, Leo, I am appalled by your manners. Anyway, who is depicted as the female protagonist: a woman who joins the good side on her own, finds a way to cripple the villain and eventually falls in love with the main hero or a random woman who happens to be in the main hero's gang? Kitana is an independent player, Liu Kang's equal in a way, while Sonya, when it comes to the main plot, is one of Liu Kang's sidekicks. That's all I wanted to say.
I don't consider Sonya the main hero's counterpart also because the people closest to him are Kung Lao and Kitana, Sonya is nothing special for him. For example, he was enraged by Kung Lao's supposed death and wanted to rescue Kitana when she was prisoner, but he didn't go to Outworld specifically for Sonya: he wanted to avenge his Shaolin brothers. I don't understand why people grant this regular fighter a special status among Earth fighters just because she is female: that's a weird form of sexism.
However, Sonya as an icon is one of those claims that can't be proved and seem to be assumed to be true. Some people are under the evil spell of the Yellow Fur. Personally, I think Sonya should be out, icon or not, because she was a poor character to begin with and by now she is old. Her potential is not untapped: it is LOST.
And I'm fed up with getting insulted by fanboys.

IMO, I'd bet my money on Kitana getting in before Sonya.The only thing that makes Sonya recognizable to me is her blonde hair. I know she was the first Mortal Kombat female, but to me she has failed to be an interesting character aside from the movies.

But I think both Kitana and Sonya will make it in. After all, Sonya is Ed Boon's favorite female.

I also can't see them not putting an evil female character in the game, so I am pretty confident that Mileena will make it as well.

I'm sure they can happily coexist, just not when the point of the discussion is one like this, because it's constantly becoming pretty obvious that people's minds can't be changed in terms like this, whether it be through the statement of pure fact or otherwise.



I do agree that, from what's been shown in the past, Sonya is more popular in the MK Team's workplace than Kitana, though the popularity contest between the two among the fans is almost always at a standstill. I in no way have ever refused to give Kitana credit where credit is due, so much that I do consider her one of the most iconic MK females and worthy of being in the future installments (with a couple changes, as I've mentioned). And I know Kitana's always been involved with the story even in games she wasn't in, but this argument is not usable in a discussion like this for the mere fact that, while Kitana may have been involved but absent, Sonya was always involved and not absent. Whether this is true because of Boon and Co. or because of the fans, it's just a fact that plays in Sonya's favor.

As for MK: Deception, isn't it pretty obvious why Kitana was so deeply involved? They used Deception in order to bring in characters that hadn't made it into Deadly Alliance, and Jade and Sindel happened to be some of those characters. What possible storylines could Jade and Sindel have in a game where Khan's dead and Kitana's absent? Obviously, squeeze Kitana in there to reinforce the two's storylines! I honestly don't think it was Kitana's "bigger popularity" or her being "more iconic" that determined her involvement in Deception, and I'm surprised her fanboys seem to always wanna believe otherwise for convinience (not that you're one of them, PinkRanger, I wouldn't know). But some people do seem to be overlooking some pretty clear things once or twice.



But again you're straying into the "circle of friends" scenario me and Xiahou were previously talking about, and one scenario that Xiahou himself did the good job of destroying its credibility. Sure you know people who love Kitana with a passion, just like other people in the world know other people in the world who love Sonya with a passion, or Khan, or Tsung, or Sub-Zero, whichever. The "people I know" thing, like it's been said, just doesn't have any credibility to it.

I'm not saying Kitana has had weak storylines in the past, but they honestly haven't been so great that I'm prepared to forget everything else Sonya has over her. After the big change Kitana went through in MKII, there's just no way she would "fit" into the MK storyline if she didn't have a major involvement in it. This is part of the role she was built up for, just as Sonya was built up since MK1 to be the female lead and also maintain an involvement in the main storyline, thus why she's always working in bringing down the main antagonist, despite a parallel involvement in the sub-plot she is also the protagonist of. If you ask me, THIS is what it truly means for a character to have layers.



For a 5-minute doodle, those are actually some very good drawings, lol, and very entertaining.



-_-' ... As soon as I read this, I knew I had a biased Kitana fanboy in my hands. And what's this about my manners? If you haven't noticed, I've been perfectly well-behaved toward everyone who did the same. Why, oh why, can't so many of her #1 fans just destroy the Kitana shrine and be more open-minded to other people's words? Whatever, I give everyone a first chance, so let's go on.



I'm sure in your mind this is how it is. In the mind of close-minded Sonya fanboys, it's more like this: Who is the female protagonist, some rebellious ninja woman who looks like a bunch of other girls or the courageous female who is in practically every installment fighting alongside the male leads to bring down the antagonist while starring in her own subplot? So your kind and this kind are, like, polar opposites.

Well, I like to consider myself an open-minded Sonya "fanboy", however. So this is how it is in my head: Who is the female lead, the once-evil-turned-good princess doing everything she can to make up for her past and fix everything her enemies have wronged, or the courageous female who has been in more installments and is always fighting alongside the male leads to bring down the antagonist while starring in her own subplot? Both girls sound like great characters, don't they? Still, Sonya fits the mold of female lead much better the way I see the two. I hope I wasn't too rude.



Unless she's the star of the show, a female lead's job IS to be the male lead's sidekick. I'm surprised this is news for ya. Kitana is an independent player? Well, I can perfectly well argue that so is Sonya, as the "star" of the OIA sub-plot and of her continuous ulterior motives. You say Kitana is Liu Kang's equal in a way? Well, I can perfectly well argue that Sonya is this much more than Kitana, since she's almost always fighting for the exact same thing and toward the exact same goal, FOR THE SAME REASONS, while Kitana has always seemed to be more interested in bringing down the likes of Khan for the good of Edenia, her mother, her kingdom, etc., etc. Makes sense, huh?



I don't see how sentiments and feelings play into the strict sense of a character's role in a story, and you haven't really explained that in your post. I'm a writer myself, and I've never considered it a rule that the female lead must have some kind of loving relationship with the male lead. Does the fact that Kitana and Liu Kang love each other help Kitana to be slightly more regarded in the main storyline than she would've been otherwise? Yes, it helps her in that sense. Does it automatically make her the female lead just 'cuz Liuy got a chubby? No, it does not.

The most this relationship between Liu and Kitana does for Kitana is make her more complex and have more layers, as you said, FOR SOME PEOPLE (I personally have always hated this about Kitana, how she's soft for Liu). I really fail to see how Liu Kang's private parts (or his heart) suddenly have the power to pinpoint the female lead of Mortal Kombat.

Furthermore, the way I remember it, Liu was tricked into the second tournament because Sonya was taken by Khan, and he just so happened to form the connection with Kitana throughout the events following that. It's just stupid for you to say that Liu doesn't care about Sonya. I'm sure that if you asked Boon, he'd tell you that Liu cares for Sonya just as much as he cares for Kung Lao, or Johnny, or any of his close friends and allies. There's no "emotional pyramid" that's ever been created to determine who Liu Kang likes more and who he likes less, and even if there were, I'd again say, how is this relevant in a discussion like this?

People aren't "granting a regular fighter special status". There isn't a witch who works at Midway who cast a Hypnotic Spell on Sonya and suddenly everyone who plays as her will think she's the best. Sonya's regarded in many ways (iconic, lead role, best female, whatever) because she surely deserves it in one way or another, even if some people don't agree with it.



Well, I did include a hell of a lot of facts in my previous posts. Maybe you didn't read them, or you did and just don't want to admit to them being facts, and that's a right you have as a Kitana fanboy, I'm not gonna fight to change your ways. Like I said, Sonya isn't magical and these people you talk about aren't "assuming" anything about her, just reacting to what they've seen from her in the past installments, since the beginning. Oh look, you gave the spell a name, lmao. That's kinda funny (not being sarcastic), but again, ridiculous in nature.

"A poor character to begin with and now she is old"? If she was a poor character in any way she wouldn't have the fan base she has to this day, she wouldn't be in practically every MK, and she sure as hell wouldn't be coming back in the next generation of MK. It's fine that you got the hots for Kitana, I don't mind that, but I do think it's just dumb for you to let that blind you to certain things and get you to believe that Sonya has spells cast on her and people who like her are retarded. And how much you wanna bet that in MKDC and in the games following that, Sonya's still gonna be the hot blond of MK? Please, don't even try to pretend otherwise.

Part of her potential has been explored in the past to her advantadge, and throughout this exploration of the character, Sonya's shown that she still has much more untapped potential. I've given examples of this countless times in my past posts, so again, I'm sure you're either not reading my posts or you're just covering your ears going "La La La La". Either way, I'd expect this from someone who was insecure about Kitana's qualities and wanted to bring down her competition with ridiculous theories and statemenets.

P.S.: When did I insult you? I mean, honestly, I've been around a while and I don't even know who you are... and if you HAVE been insulted by Sonya fanboys in the past, maybe you deserved it by how you worded your posts. From the way you just wrote this one, I can't say I'd blame them. Try to be more open-minded in the future, consider things that have been stated, consider facts and not just opinions, and open your eyes to the fact that maybe, just maybe, someone other than Kitana is deserving of the titles you as a fan give her.



You're stating your opinion here, so I'm not gonna oppose that. What I can do is point you in the direction of my previous posts, where I clearly point out just why I praise Sonya's level of intrigue as a character BESIDES just her looks.

I mean, seriously, I know most people hate reading, but if you're gonna post in a thread where there's clearly been a lot of evolving, you really should catch up beforehand! I'm not saying this to mkmileena personally, but more to anyone who knows this addresses them.

lol, thanks man. Actually, I'm thinking I might do a better quality version and post it in the Fan Sub sect. *shrugs* we'll see. Just did it on an impulse after reading the debates in this interesting thread.

In the end though, I think that you and Pink Ranger are correct... this is an issue that is never going to be solved.. I mean not really. And that's because there's no real right or wrong when it comes to fav characters and how much they mean to a series (as, for the most part, that's based on opinion.) So there's not a definite answer one way or the other. Some will always love Kitana and place her above all MK females, just as others will always do the same with Sonya. There's been some really great points made from both sides, no doubt. But it won't ever settle.

^ *sigh*, you know it. Everyone who is an MK fan has his or her favorite character, and some people are so devoted to their faves that nothing will change that. Well, in this thread, I honestly didn't set out to change anybody's favorite character. I really just aimed to make as many valid points and bring up as many concrete facts as I could to explain why Sonya's often viewed as the most iconic female, and why I agree with this statement.

But I think I'm close to reaching the conclusion that not even THAT can serve its purpose no matter how valid, due entirely to the devotion of fans to their favorite characters. I've come to notice that when a fan loves their character beyond all others, they will turn their backs on anything that could damage that connection, whether it be fact, opinion, or a mix of both. I guess it's kinda admirable, even if bothersome at times. I mean, I think I did a great job with my debating and came as close as possible to proving my points about the female that happens to be my favorite character, but like it's been said, I can't expect that to change anyone's mind regardless.

Trust me, Leo, there's no way you're gonna get anyone of Kitana's fanboys to admit to the facts you've brought up in your many posts. I personally think you did an excellent job in this whole discussion - I'm not just saying this because I've agreed with Sonya being the most iconic from the beginning, but I also say this because every point you made was really well articulated IMO, and overall your debating was good enough to prove wrong all the naysayers. But when there's always gonne be those who, like you said, turn their backs on such things in favor of their preferred character, even if that means ignoring what's been said. Meh, just let it be, as long as you and everyone who reads these pages know your posts all did what they were meant to do, it's all good.

Personally, though my favorite character will always be Mileena, I do prefer Sonya over Kitana because of mostly everything that's been said. I think there just isn't Mortal Kombat if she's not around, she's the biggest female icon of the franchise, and has everything from a huge fan base to being Boon's favorite female in order to back her up. I'm sure she'll be around for a long-ass time, and she deserves it over any of the other MK bitches ^_^ lol (along with Mileena >= ( ... )

I think this thread has accomplished all that it possibly can. These two sides will never be able to understand the other and while both bring up valid points but neither side will concede an inch. Sonya fans are just as guilty of tunnel vision as Kitana fans are.

Thread closed.