About the farts and the burps, it would be rather funny if for example Bo' Rai Cho's fatality would be something like that he would sit on his opponents face, and then fart until his head explodes.

Rather lame, but still rather amusing.

Maybe the run button could be used for stuff like side flips, or other special evasions, like that backwards slide Sub had in MKDA.

Although, all those moves that could be done using a run button, could just be done with the buttons they already have.

f,F = Run

db,db or b+3+4 = for sub's backward slide.

d or u+3+4 = side flip

f+3+4 = roll

or maybe

1+3 = extra moves like the ones above and taunts reversals, sub stance, whatever depending on the fighter.

and

2+4 = throw

Hmm, the clothing stuff makes sense for speed and all. There's also weight of the characters themselves.

However, I wouldn't want Sub-Zero to be a slow character. He should always have pretty good speed and strength but never be too good in either aspect, just pretty good.

Going back to the aerial thing for a bit and something I probably already mentioned, but um...what about different characters having different jump heights and stuff? There could be certain advantages and disadvantages.

That would be good.


Some one like a ninja would have a high jump that can go over fireballs.

Someone heavy like Jax would have more of a hop instead. His attacks could do more damage, but he can't use them as counters against a fireball. But it wold avoid low attacks.

Someone like Fujin or Raiden might have a special long jump.

Scorpion could have a long jump also, but it's a teleport jump instead.

If they added the run button back the characters certainly wouldn't blits the opponent all the time like UMK3 and MK4. Sure there was a run limit but there wasnt actual stamina properties and the run was always fast right off the bat, same for everyone, blits in your face.

This time they could have the running depend on the character. Size, weight, height etc. all matters. They could have gradual catching up from a quick run to a full sprint. You could even keep a certain pace if you want by letting go of run when you are satisfied and continue holding the direction. If you want to dash, all characters have it by using F, F and B, B = back dash, etc..

A start up animation for running might be good.

They have it in Marvel Nemesis. I preordered the game and got a demo with spider man and the electric guy. Johnny omn.

When you go to run in that game, there is a quick start up animation. Also if you switch from running in one direction to another, there is a special transition start up animation for that.

It makes the characters seem more realistic, even less robotic than normal.

It would be kool to have a dodge effect. For example if you go for a high punch your opponent can lean back and dodge it.

A horrible misconcption. Even in full armor you can run at high paces, to think that you're slowed down is simply dumb and unrealistic. You exhaust yourself faster at best, butt you won't be slower.

Have you ever run in full armour? I can tell you as a soccer player, that just playing in heavier boots slows you down, why do you think they make running shoes and running clothing lighter and lighter each year with the new technology?

If there was a 100m race between two equal runners, one dressed in full medieval armour, the other in the latest athletic equipment, I know who my money would be on.

Now back on topic...

I think aside from maybe the sash, Sub-Zero's armor doesn't look that heavy, but it's hard to say really. Either way, Sub-Zero has never really been a slow character. I've always liked him as a pretty fast character, not one who is super fast, but pretty fast nonetheless. Even with the armor, I think he should still have pretty good speed.

Scorpion's armour would be light and flexible. The heaviest item on his body is likely his shoulder plates, but someone who is portrayed as a far superior athlete than an olympion would have no trouble moving swiftly with a little weight. It is not heavy armour, like a medievil knight, or anything of the sort.

We all know that MK:DA and MK:D were slower paced than MK3- MK4. WHY??? I think that Midway needs to bring back that run button. The run button would be a crucial part of the game, and it would make gameplay more fun aesthetically. I think that a run button would be far better than dashing simply because of MK3's use or run. A dash is only a short move forward, while run could get the character to the opponent from any location on the screen. I think that running in a 3-d system would be pretty cool too.
I like the combo system as is (breakers incorporated). The only problem I see with the fighting is as everyone has mentioned, priority moves in alot of cases have too much priority. They need to make poking better, simple fact is that certain characters have better poke moves while some don't have a safe one at all (Havik for example).
I don't know about unblockable throws, because every mortal kombat before has had blockable throws. MK:D makes throws too easy to find flaws within the game. I think that throws are the main flaw, and they need to be blockable. I'm sure alot of fans of the unblockable throw would beg to differ, but I still feel that it brings cheating into the game too obviously.
With a mixture of classic MK, and new generation MK I don't think Midway could lose. They need to incorporate the nostaligia as much as possible. PM me if you think the same thing.

Yes, the run button should be put back in. It would make the kombat more fast paced, edgier, but what if there were powerful characters so powerful that instead of running the would like float towards the character really fast as if they were flying of some sort, or they could jump really hard towards their opponent and do some kind of charge attack, that would be FRICKIN' SHWEET. and thats where the oki would come in, after being knocked down the player could hit some button and do like a back flip of the ground and continue fighting the on coming opponent..... once again FRICKIN' SHWEET!!!

yeah the throwing thing is a bit of a problem, but that's why they need throw cancels and throw escapes.

regarding the combo stuff, I disagree with you. I really feel the combo system needs to use strings instead of chains. as for the running, eh, maybe. If they put that in, different characters should have different running speeds but with certain other advantages/disadvantages.

I'd like to be able to launch a stunned opponent, but only during a power up.

Like the aggressor or some kind of adrenalin rush.

It could be a desperation power up when you are almost out of health.


Normally if the opponent is stunned, you can't launch them, only knock them down because it's cheap to launch someone who has no way to defend them selves. ( Juggles take away too much life)

But if you have a power up, then it could be an exception to that rule.

Maybe you need a special condition to do the power up.

I think jugles should be limited to 3 or 4 hits, the final hit should send them back a body length, and do a back flip onto a kneeling position, leading to a quick get up. Someone hit with a number of juggles has been punished enough without being unable to get up again.

could they possibly make it to where you could have a juggle breaker of some sort? that would be pretty neat! but the idea of counters, doesn't that sound like mk:da's crappy reversals? instead of match pausers like reversals they should make like speed upgrades, like a certain character can make time go by faster, and be all "fast" or, they could turn those teleport moves, like raydens teleport into teleport combos! i love imagination (that sound girly)

Reversals are fine if they are done realistically, or in a way that works well in the game and doesn't look stupid. The Breakers in MKD look terrible and have no point IMO.

1 = They are too easy to do. Just hold BLK and keep pressing fffffff.

2 = You can't be punished if you miss a reversal animation because there isn't one in MKD. (Makes the move too safe)

3 = It doesn't cause any damage to the opponent, but it allows for damage to be caused to you???????

4 = It knocks the opponent too far away and you can't really follow up with anything.

5 = You can do it in the air or on the ground.

6 = Every character does the same stupid looking punch whether they are standing or being juggled. Again ??????????????

7 = You are limited to 3 per round. I think they did that because they knew they were bad. I'm glad they did that though, because it would suck even more if people were doing Breakers all round long.

( In real life or a movie, reversals aren't limited to a set number )

There's nothing I like about the Breaker system in MKD, it's just all wrong.


If the Breakers were replaced with Reversals, or auto block attacks then it would be better. But if they are designed well.

For reversal "animations" that would be good in MK, just check out the other fighting games out now.

VF4E

T5

DOA3

Aside from realistic looking reversals, for MK they could incorporate their powers or weapons to it like what you posted abot Rayden teleporting. Maybe even style changing as part of a reversal.

For the command type for the reversals, look at VF4 or T5.
The system in T5 is more user friendly, the system in VF4 is more skill based but gives you a lot more options.

Since MK is more kung fu type combat, they could make a parry system similar to the Guard Impact in SC1 or 2.

With something like that, you could get the kung fu movie style fighting and blocking that goes back and forth fast.

They could even incorporate the throws and reversals.... to it for even more stylish moves and more overall options / freedom / depth / complexity.

The good thing about MK is with the idea of following fighting styles so closely is that the MK team can implement style specific parries and reversals, or atleast have the potential to do so, Boon + Co never have been good with gameplay potential.

Instead of DOA's universal 1/5 of a health bar reversal system (it was the last time I played a DOA game anyway) or Tekken's loosely character based reversal system that might or might not have something to do with their fighting styles (barring the d+f lower parry) MK can have "defensive" styles that are parry /reversal friendly, as well as "offensive styles" that i dunno, maybe have extra special power moves.

eg. Sub Zero can have his

1) Basic freeze
2) Slide attack
3) Ice Clone

In all styles, but in his defensive style he can have

1) A set of reversals/parries
2) His MK:DA Cold Shoulder

his offensive style would feature

1) A move that involved throwing spiked icicles
2) *insert offensive ice oriented move here*

An idea for the weapon style could feature specials involving the weapon, something like his MK4 Ice Staff extended reach freeze.

Exactly
An aggressive move for Sub could be an ice dash.
Sort of like the crouch dash.
The ice dash would move forward further than a normal dash and it would link to a number of attacks.
Ice dash ~ shoulder ram
Ice dash ~ slide
Ice dash ~ Low ice
Then there could be style specific moves for the ice dash.
In style 1 he would ice dash ~ some basic attack that leads to a combo.
in Style 2, ice dash ~ a guard breaker attack
in Style 3, ice dash ~ launcher or maybe a throw
There could be more basic attacks that link than just 1 per style.

What do you guys think about juggles?

In your opinion, how should they work?

Keep in mind complaints that people may have about one thing or another.
Style, logic........stuff like that.

I know something that I like are this.
Flashy custom juggles. Not necessarily a fast combo like in VF, but more custom like in Tekken and kind of like in MK.

Problems I see with that are this.

Extra long juggles can lead to too much damage.

If juggles are too long, they may look cool, but the other person is annoyed by it. This happens to me when I play Tekken 5 at the arcade.
Against good players, sometimes they just take their hands off the controls and just nod their head as the juggle goes on and on.

Against beginners, they complain that it's not fair.


In VF I like how the juggles are shorter. They keep the flow of the fight going smoother and they don't seem as cheep or exaggerated.

The thing I don't like is that the characters bounce too low for me to have the freedom I need to do some more fancy juggles like in Tekken.

Example = Baek's Flying halberd combo I think it's called.

You do his 3+4 (hop double back kick) move 3-4 times in a row 5 if you are against a wall on the 4th one. And all the crazy combinations he can do from the flamingo stance.

Stuff like that seems more limited in VF and I find it kind of annoying.


I think a good middle ground would be something like this.
1 = the bounce is like in MK and Tekken = high and pushes the opponent away. Far enough so you can't get more than 4 -5 hits in. = Sort of like in Tekken 3 if I remember correctly.


2 = have juggle skimming to control the type of bounce caused by an attack.
If you skim low they will bounce higher and closer to you like a T5 bounce.
Skim high or hit them in the middle and they will fall faster like a VF bounce. This would have to be designed to work but not over extend juggles. It could allow like 1-2 extra hits if done right.

There might be different properties for a HML skim depending on the attack.

3 = Allow for ground attacks like in Tekken and SC2.

4 = If a character is already close to the floor during a juggle, if you hit them, they will have a low bounce kind of like in VF4.

5 = Launch recovery = Like in Tekken5 when you are stunned, you have a short time frame in which you can cancel the stun and be able to block again. It’s kind of like a throw escape. When stunned, quickly tap down. That’s it.

This could also work for launchers. You could have a short window where you can tap down or some other quick command like block, to make your character not bounce when hit by a juggle attack. Instead of a normal bounce, they would do kind of a hop back and stumble but land on their feet.

I think, this system would allow for flashier juggles because of the high bounce.

It doesn't allow combos to extend for too many hits because of the bounce distance and the high Med skim low bounce.

The attacking an opponent who is close to the floor won't be able to launch them high enough to make a long combo. It just lets you get an extra hit or 2 if you are quick.

The launch recovery would save you from a juggle all together, but it’s hard to do. You have to expect the launch to do it on call. Like if you do an attack with a lot of recovery frames and you know your opponent is going to launch you. Tap dddddd to save your self.

I don’t know though. Tapping ddddd seems too easy to me. But in T5 that’s all you have to do to escape a stun and I don’t see it happening too often so maybe it would be OK.

You could then add wall stun combos to this on top of all that.



OK, so that's my idea

What about you?

Good topic to bring up, but unfortunately, I'm not all there when it comes to what I want to say regarding juggles so I'm just going to put down what is on the top of my head. bleed and others, feel free to give me your 2 cents on what I have to say...

I think that faster launchers/pop ups should have the opponent go up a bit...enough to do maybe a couple hits or so. I don't like how Liu Kang's B + 1 in Jun Fan is kind of a fast launcher that knocks the opponent high up like that. It should have them go up much lower than that while his F + 2 will allow him to do more hits. Slower launchers/pop ups like F + 2 in Jun Fan can allow the person to do more juggle hits like the example I gave for Liu Kang's Jun Fan style.

What do you think of launchers/pop up moves and/or strings affecting certain characters differently due to their weight? I know the earlier Tekken games like Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag had this. Maybe characters like Bo' Rai Cho don't go as high up as characters like Li Mei would when getting hit by launchers and/or pop ups.

I like the idea of different launch heights depending on the launch attacks properties.

A safer launch will launch lower than a riskier launcher.

Character weight would also be good. Add a little more thought to the process, but then I'm wondering. It's logical for a heavy fighter to be harder to juggle, but since large characters are stronger than normal, is it fair to give them that advantage?

Not only is it harder for a weak character to beat a strong / large one, It takes less effort for a large character to beat a weaker character.


I have a mental image of Tekken 5. Ling Xyaoiu VS a Paul Phenix that is harder to juggle.

Ling wouldn't stand a chance IMO.

Bleed, what is see as the problem is how will it be possible to implement a system in which heavier characters are harder to juggle? Its not like heavier people fall faster, and the only thing that i could see is if some moves didnt work on heavy characters, but that would suck!

It's not the speed of the fall, it's the height of the bounce.


Try to bounce a volley ball = a light character

Try to bounce a bowling ball = a heavy character.