I think its sad how many times we have to use examples here just to get a point across, only to realize as EASY as the example is to understand people still either don't get it or get it but don't want to admit they are wrong.

Custom Characters will be banned with any tournament held. No one is tarnishing anyones name just because they decide to use their broke as character that no one has EVER heard of.

Nikodemus Wrote: A player that is able to deal with a surprise and adapt is a great player. Someone who plays for hours on end just to figure out a certain attack always counters another attack or special move in a certain fighting style isn't a good player. He has just played so much that he realized certain attacks can be countered by other attacks. I am always more impressed with someone when they beat me with something unexpected. Also I've noticed in tourny play that it usually is something random that ends the fight. I've been in a few mk touraments in my area and when playing against someone at the same skill level as myself the fights are usually not very pretty near the end most of the time it's a stupid mistake and an odd move put out at the right time that ends the fight. Making rules about characters is lame. It's like banning Cervantes from SCII tourny's because he's to powerful. Let's do that to make it fair for the losers using Yunsung. font>

Cervantes is not banned because pretty much every other character can beat him, and as broken as he may be there are KNOWN ways to counter his stuff. Stop bringing up examples of characters that are known. They aren't banned because they are beatable. Cervantes is beatable. Jin is beatable. Marth is beatable. Akira is beatable. Why is this? Because while they are advantaged in combat, their advantages are known and for most part are someway counterable!

Just a reminder...

Custom characters are for fanboys. I would say play arcade style even though this isnt an arcade game. That shit will break the game if the game isnt broken already. We all know mk is going to be fun but its not a good figting game.

Versatile Wrote: I think its sad how many times we have to use examples here just to get a point across, only to realize as EASY as the example is to understand people still either don't get it or get it but don't want to admit they are wrong. Custom Characters will be banned with any tournament held. No one is tarnishing anyones name just because they decide to use their broke as character that no one has EVER heard of.

We get your examples, We just don't agree with them. Just like you and others don't agree with our examples. And who's to say who's wrong? What? Because you say something... It's automatically right? Everyone have their own views that you have to take into account or else this really is just a one-sided discussion.

people spend hours upon hours on fighting games just learning the moves of the characters, frame data, counters, etc etc etc. if you bring custom characters into the tournament, there's NO point in practicing. you won't know the character you're playing against. you won't know when to counter, what moves he/she has, when to use offense, nothing. it will be a total guessing game and the first one to get lucky enough to win. it will never determine who's better. i have pride in my play. if i lose, i want it to be because the person i'm playing against is better than me. not because i don't know what strats the character they use has.

like it was mentioned, keep it a side tournament and "for fun".

NIETHER DOSE SPENDING HOURS AND HOURS OF LEARNING EACH CHARECTERS MOVES MORON....


figthing is a GUESSING GAME....

if u cant adjust TO A NEW STYLE OR A NEW MOVE THROWN THEN U SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so quit complaining mr.tournament master

everything will be equal there is no superiour fighting style...
but there is a superior player that will defeat a costum charecter with the worst charecter imaginable its all about GUESSING and ANTICIPATING ur oponets NEXT MOVE!!!!

wether its a trip punch kombo special w/e


SO ALL U GAY TOURNY PPL

stop bitching if ur SOOOO GOOD......

if u were good u would adapt instantly to ur opponet thats why costums wont b banned.....


it depends on the gamer!!!!

NOT THE GAME

what the hell was that mess?


you can't adapt to something you don't even know what you're adapting to. as for it being a guessing game, yes. but once the guess is over and someone strikes, you should be able to know what to do next. which counter to use, where to block, when to strike, etc. you can't do that with a character you've never played before. therefore, turning the match into one huge guessing game. no skills required.


yes, they will be banned. don't worry.

thatguy Wrote: NIETHER DOSE SPENDING HOURS AND HOURS OF LEARNING EACH CHARECTERS MOVES MORON.... figthing is a GUESSING GAME.... if u cant adjust TO A NEW STYLE OR A NEW MOVE THROWN THEN U SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so quit complaining mr.tournament master everything will be equal there is no superiour fighting style... but there is a superior player that will defeat a costum charecter with the worst charecter imaginable its all about GUESSING and ANTICIPATING ur oponets NEXT MOVE!!!! wether its a trip punch kombo special w/e SO ALL U GAY TOURNY PPL stop bitching if ur SOOOO GOOD...... if u were good u would adapt instantly to ur opponet thats why costums wont b banned..... it depends on the gamer!!!! NOT THE GAME

Go fight Cable with Servebot in Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and come back to tell me that there is no superior style or character in fighting games. This is a game not real life. You can only do what the game lets you do. So I guess I suck if I can't beat Cable with Servebot. I should have adapted to an obviously far superior character with the tools to clean my clock. I should have adapted to use skills that Servebot doesn't have. If I didn't know Cable had the viper beam I should have figured it out anyway and not gotten hit. I certainly should've used some move that would've worked in that situation even though Servebot doesn't have such a move. Maybe the magical leprechaun fairies should wave their magic wands and give Servebot the tools he needs to match Cable.

Think of this logically. If a programmer doesn't give a character the ability to do something...still following me?...then that character can't do it. He CAN'T do it. No adapt. He can't.

Scorpion can't do a flash kick. No matter what. He can't do it. So if I'm playing Mortal Kombat II and I'm fighting a guy using Scorpion and at the end of the match he throws a flash kick and I end up losing then it's my fault? Nice logic there.

In a real fight a person can adapt because programmers don't control him. Frame advantage doesn't exist. There's no special moves. Nobody is throwing fireballs off of guaranteed launchers. But video games are make believe.

I dont know if anyone mentioned this here or not, but did you guys know Spawn,Link and Heihachi are banned from major tournaments in SC2? Think about why they are..then think about how it would be EVEN WORSE with hundreds upons hundreds of characters you've never heard of. Fighting games have guessing in it, but for 90% of them skill outweighs the guessing part. With custom characters floating around in tournaments the guessing becomes more of a factor than skill itself.

By the way, before flames come flying. I mean to say "no tournament I AM HOLDING will allow custom characters in them unless it's just for fun" not "no tournament will allow custom characters"

I agree and see why custom characters should not be included in real tournements. But it will interesting to see how Midway handles it when the game comes out.

Ninjaholic Wrote: I agree and see why custom characters should not be included in real tournements. But it will interesting to see how Midway handles it when the game comes out.

I want to kiss you on the forehead. THANK YOU!

There should just be 3 kinds of tournys

Normal) Want to show your skill as the best MK warrior ever. (NO CUSTOM)

Custom) Who has made the best Fighter ever (ONLY CUSTOM)

Mix) Think your strong. Play with the best of both worlds!



This way Even thouh customs might be cheap if you don't like em don't fight in the tournys. I'd play in all of em even thoh the Normal tournys whould be better in as I won't have to pray that someone dosen't use a uber cheap combo ^^

Ummm, there should be

RANDOM SELECT

tournaments as well.

This way we will see who is really "versatile"!

You're such a block head sometimes. I think it's sad that you make an opinion thread and then trash anyone who doesn't agree with you (which you do all the time I might add). Yah you gave your examples as did the people that support your opinion. I still don't thing created characters should be banned for the reasons listed so far. I think a truely skilled player could defeat anyone even if he doesn't know exacly what he is facing(that's my opinion). Next time don't waste time making an opinion thread when you're just out to bash everyone else who doesn't agree with you.

Versatile Wrote: I think its sad how many times we have to use examples here just to get a point across, only to realize as EASY as the example is to understand people still either don't get it or get it but don't want to admit they are wrong. Custom Characters will be banned with any tournament held. No one is tarnishing anyones name just because they decide to use their broke as character that no one has EVER heard of.

"You're such a block head sometimes."

Thanks sexy.


"I think it's sad that you make an opinion thread and then trash anyone who doesn't agree with you (which you do all the time I might add)."

This is not an opinion thread. I do not believe I said it was. This is a topic made so we as fans can come to the conclusion of whether we will be allowing custom characters in tournaments or ban them.


"Yah you gave your examples as did the people that support your opinion. I still don't thing created characters should be banned for the reasons listed so far."

Well, I guess you're going to have to experience tournament play outside of your Canadian buddies to understand. It's not about skill when you have to guess what your opponent has. You still don't seem to be understanding that.

" think a truely skilled player could defeat anyone even if he doesn't know exacly what he is facing(that's my opinion)."

I am sure your opinion will change when 30 bucks are on the line and your ass gets jacked by some scrub you've never heard of when you think you have the tournament on lock down.

"Next time don't waste time making an opinion thread when you're just out to bash everyone else who doesn't agree with you."

This is not an opinion thread.

Toodles.

Yeah. Like i said, This is a one-sided discussion.

Versatile and others are still using the same foolish examples that have no substance.

"I think it's sad that you make an opinion thread and then trash anyone who doesn't agree with you (which you do all the time I might add)."

This is not an opinion thread. I do not believe I said it was. This is a topic made so we as fans can come to the conclusion of whether we will be allowing custom characters in tournaments or ban them.

Ummm... Yes it is. The topic is in the form of a question, You're asking people what they think. Hell your response sounds like what an opinion thread would be... And whether opinion or straight up answer, You're argueing with people who say "No"

Tundra has the best idea with the three different kinds of tournaments. So far the only arguement that pro-custom debaters can come up with is that if you're good enough you can adapt to anything despite what tools the programmers gave. This in itself is flawed since even if I can adapt myself and see what needs to be done it doesn't mean the character I'm playing as will be able to do it. But I said all this already so I won't waste space regurgitating a rebuttal.

But anyway, I was good at addition early in grammer school. If we studied single digit addition and then had a test on it and the questions were like, 3+4, 4+1, 5+3, 10+11...Uh oh! I was absent when they did double digit addition! But I can adapt. I use my fingers. But that adaptation is limited to my tools. I already have the tools to understand the numbers themselves. I know what ten is and I know what eleven is. I also know what the plus sign means. So I can adapt to that situation. I can count from ten eleven times. But what if the following question was 3*3? I don't know the multiplication symbol. Even though I know the three I don't have the tools to understand the concept of multiplication so I can't adapt. In all honesty? I'd put 6 as the answer. I'd take the best guess based on the two threes being that's all I know and I'd be wrong.

Play a Smash Bros. tournament with all items on. See how fair it is to try adapting to when a star falls on your opponents head and a hammer lands in his general vicinity. Try adapting when your control stick/D-pad doesn't move to the right. If you're good enough then you shouldn't have to move right in order to win, correct? You can adapt even though the necessary tools aren't there.

Nobody here arguing for custom characters have provided any reason why they should be allowed other than "good players will adapt" and that has already been torn apart. Debates aren't about "my opinion is this". Debates are about "My opinion is this BECAUSE of this". Either support your own stance or disprove ours.

My posts mention other things other than adapting since "Adapting" is too simplified to me.

Why are people already bitching about custom characters when we haven't even seen how they will be made?
For all we know all the custom characters will suck.Remember,we dont even know how custimizable the monks are.I bet they will be very limited.And with the death traps and massive levels,it's anyones game.

But if the monks are as customizable as people think they are,I think it would be a bit unfair.
Dont you guys remember playing MK2 at the arcades and when you fought Kintaro he kicked your ass because you didn't know any thing about him.If custom fighters are in MK:Deception tournaments,It will be MK2 all over again.

well i hope it is mk2 all over again... i dunno why everyone is bitching about it being unfair... personally i love the idea of going up against a character i havent encountered before... and not knwoing every cheap trick that character is weak agaisnt... i like some suprises... and will be fun to overcome such obstacles... and if i get my ass kicked well then im just not playing good enough either way it will be fun and something new instead of going up against characters i know like the back of my hand every time... someone who is really good shoulnd't need to know everything about there oppenant... but with 3 diff tourneys it won't be a problem... i'll be going in the mix tournaments... and playing as normal fighters against customs for a new challange.....

For fun, yeah, I'd go for it too. But would you if something was on the line? A prize?

Versatile Wrote: "You're such a block head sometimes." Thanks sexy. "I think it's sad that you make an opinion thread and then trash anyone who doesn't agree with you (which you do all the time I might add)." This is not an opinion thread. I do not believe I said it was. This is a topic made so we as fans can come to the conclusion of whether we will be allowing custom characters in tournaments or ban them. "Yah you gave your examples as did the people that support your opinion. I still don't think created characters should be banned for the reasons listed so far." Well, I guess you're going to have to experience tournament play outside of your Canadian buddies to understand. It's not about skill when you have to guess what your opponent has. You still don't seem to be understanding that. " think a truely skilled player could defeat anyone even if he doesn't know exacly what he is facing(that's my opinion)." I am sure your opinion will change when 30 bucks are on the line and your ass gets jacked by some scrub you've never heard of when you think you have the tournament on lock down. "Next time don't waste time making an opinion thread when you're just out to bash everyone else who doesn't agree with you." This is not an opinion thread. Toodles.

If you say so...sounds like an opinion thread to me...you asked a question in hopes of getting a response from the community. It could be classified as question/poll/opinion.

Yah me and my canadian buds are Mk noobs... what the hell do we know.

I lost in a SC tourny to a noob that was mashing away at the buttons. It happens...it's not that big of a deal to me. I don't really enter the tourny's to win...it's just nice to play some of the good players in my area. I've made some friends and we get together often to practice, get better...and have some fun. You seem to be more concerned about your own fun... or winning then anything else. If I worked hard to create my own character and to get good with him... I would hate to see all that work go to waste.

[scroll back]

Like I said...

You can make tournaments so that you are FORCED to select at least # number of different fighters.

This also helped making MKDA tourneys far more enjoyable. A good MKDA player proves nothing by beating me with Scorpion, but if I can beat his Scorpion with, say, Mavado, that proves something...

[/scroll]

[opinion]

I don't really get your point here Vers. If you're afraid of facing a character you've never heard of... that character WILL have styles known in the game so, you know them. You know these styles' names and moves, only not in that combination. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't even have to do with adaption.

Plus, like someone else here cleverly remarked, they won't be allowed anyway because of the whole XBox ~ PS2 thing.

[/opinion]

Cheers,
VQ

People act like I am against custom characters, and I am not. I look forward to creating my ultimate character, but I would not want to win with him in a tournament, and on the flipside I woudln't want to lose to someones character just because I had no idea what the character was made of. The argument isn't one sided one bit. We want to encounter different characters just as much as we do, but you all seem to be forgetting that this is about what we will be doing in a TOURNAMENT atmosphere. If this was "Are we going to ban custom characters for online play" then I would be the one of nikodemus and gravedigger's sides because that would be dumb. But like i've said atleast 5 times already, shit is different in tournament atmosphere. You come to win, and you don't want to lose by anything except the fact that your opponent bested you on EQUAL GROUNDS. Nuff said.

1. Player 1 owns an XBox, Player 2 owns a PS2. Their custom characters can't even fight against each other so the problem doesn't even exist there.

2. Custom characters will be composed of moves and styles that are in the game and thus, not unknown.

3. Restrictions on the use of custom characters could be placed without banning them altogether.

4. In DA, an "equal" fight was certainly not always possible. Should we have banned Scorpion, Bo', Reptile, Sonya, Hsu Hao, Drahmin and Shang Tsung for being too broken?

Et voilà. :)

VQ