Why do people so gladly accept Noob Smokes ending as canon?
Why do people so gladly accept Noob Smokes ending as canon?
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posted01/22/2005 04:24 AM (UTC)byI was kind of wondering because I always feel strange when people walk around saying that 
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
... MK endings are NOT canon, they never were, they always were "what if" scenarios, but why does EVERYBODY is now accepting Noob Smoke's ending automatically as canon when it really isn't until MK7 (or another MK game for that matter) specifically states in its storyline or anywhere else that is NOT ONE OF THE ENDINGS that Noob Smoke's ending from MK: Deception is in fact true? I know this is a cool ending, but it's not a fact yet! the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
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Even the MK team themselves said it was true...
DamRho Wrote:
I was kind of wondering because I always feel strange when people walk around saying that
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
 I was kind of wondering because I always feel strange when people walk around saying that
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
... MK endings are NOT canon, they never were, they always were "what if" scenarios, but why does EVERYBODY is now accepting Noob Smoke's ending automatically as canon when it really isn't until MK7 (or another MK game for that matter) specifically states in its storyline or anywhere else that is NOT ONE OF THE ENDINGS that Noob Smoke's ending from MK: Deception is in fact true? I know this is a cool ending, but it's not a fact yet! the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
Those endings you used are rediculous examples. Those are both SCENARIOS that happened after the fact instead of an explanation as to who the characters actually are.. Plus as stated: The MK team says its true, so it is true.
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FLSTYLE Wrote:
This thread seems like one of those situations where someone tries to answer a question that no-one asked.
 This thread seems like one of those situations where someone tries to answer a question that no-one asked.
People usually tend to give stupid replies to these questions and that's what I got with the two previous ones. I was expecting it.
The examples were not stupid, they were endings just like Noob Smoke's ending is. It doesn't matter if one is a "situation" and the other is a "character past definition", they're both in the same "what-if" scenario.
About the "MK Team" stating the ending is true, the MK Team states a lot of crap, most of them are proven wrong (super unlockable situation being one of them). If you're not willing to reply to this thread with a valid comment then please don't reply at all.
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I think this is a very valid question, and for now still open to speculation. Why don't we wait until the next game, and then we should hopefully know for sure whether Noob Smoke's ending is canon or not. The MK team have gone back on themselves or changed things in the past. The other examples given, like Raiden's MK1 ending are not stupid examples, sometimes it takes them a game or two to decide where they want to take a particular storyline. 
Raiden was originally written as an neutral character, and only in MK2 was his plotline changed to become the defender of Earth. Another example is Johnny Cage, in MK3 it was official that he died, and MKT/MK4 carried on with him being ressurected. Then MKDA comes along and decides that he never actually died, and that it was "bad writing on his movies".
Raiden was originally written as an neutral character, and only in MK2 was his plotline changed to become the defender of Earth. Another example is Johnny Cage, in MK3 it was official that he died, and MKT/MK4 carried on with him being ressurected. Then MKDA comes along and decides that he never actually died, and that it was "bad writing on his movies".
Let me show you why this makes no sense... 
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What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
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What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
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What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
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The "what-if"s are situational. They answer the question "What if so and so beat the Dragon King?" The deal with events that may or may not be the future of the MK world. Obviously not all the futures can be true. Sub-zero cant be killed by 19 different people. Only one future can become the true future. 
Revealing the identity of Noob has nothing to do with the Future. It is a revelation to the past. There is no reason for them to up and change it. Infact the have every reason NOT to change it. There in no reason for people to not asume it to be writen in stone.
Noob's ending doesn't have to ever happen for Noob to still be Noob. What he does and who he is are to totaly different things.
Just accept it. Its not a bad thing, but I guess anyone going to all the effort to convince everyone else its not true, must disagree.
Revealing the identity of Noob has nothing to do with the Future. It is a revelation to the past. There is no reason for them to up and change it. Infact the have every reason NOT to change it. There in no reason for people to not asume it to be writen in stone.
Noob's ending doesn't have to ever happen for Noob to still be Noob. What he does and who he is are to totaly different things.
Just accept it. Its not a bad thing, but I guess anyone going to all the effort to convince everyone else its not true, must disagree.
 Since there will be no MK without Sub-Zero, there are a few possibilities. 
Notice that every ending is written as like Shujinko was the spectator. Shujinko sees what happens. Noob finishes Subbie, but hell, that is the only fact we have for now. Maybe Sub-Zero survives the encounter, and becouse of Ashras ending, there may be even a chance, that she battles Noob Saibot and banishes him. She may rescue Sub-Zero from a deadly fate. With this, Sub-Zero is still attacked by Noob/Smoke and Midway still said the truth.
Duh, my explanation was horribly explained. But you know where am i pointinhg out.
Notice that every ending is written as like Shujinko was the spectator. Shujinko sees what happens. Noob finishes Subbie, but hell, that is the only fact we have for now. Maybe Sub-Zero survives the encounter, and becouse of Ashras ending, there may be even a chance, that she battles Noob Saibot and banishes him. She may rescue Sub-Zero from a deadly fate. With this, Sub-Zero is still attacked by Noob/Smoke and Midway still said the truth.
Duh, my explanation was horribly explained. But you know where am i pointinhg out.
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Valid replies are required in valid threads, this isn't one of them. 
Like what has been said, the things people do can be either canon or non-canon, but not who they are.
On another note, by any chance are you a Sub-Zero hater or a disappointed Noob fan at all? It seems that way, as it's the only reason that makes sense, with what everyone else has said about personality/actions.
Like what has been said, the things people do can be either canon or non-canon, but not who they are.
On another note, by any chance are you a Sub-Zero hater or a disappointed Noob fan at all? It seems that way, as it's the only reason that makes sense, with what everyone else has said about personality/actions.
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Half of the ending is true Noob is actually Sub-Zero. The second half of it (that he killed Subby) may be truth but not for sure. 
 
And please don`t ask

 : 
What`s with Reiko. In MK4 it looked like he is in fact Shao Kahn!
HE IS NOT SHAO!! MK team said that.
And also they said that Noob is Sub!
Peace!
 
~Crow~ Wrote:
Let me show you why this makes no sense...
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What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
 Let me show you why this makes no sense...
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
And please don`t ask
What`s with Reiko. In MK4 it looked like he is in fact Shao Kahn!
HE IS NOT SHAO!! MK team said that.
And also they said that Noob is Sub!
Peace!
0
People dont believe the full ending to be canon. We dont knwo if Sub Zero Jr dies or not, but Noob Saibot IS the original Sub Zero. Personally I ahvent seen anything where the developers/writers etc have said Noob IS Sub. But, I do know this, they wouldnt put something as important into an ending if it werent true. Noob is the original Sub Zero. Whether the full ending is canon or not.


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Until MK7, it is NOT canon. Simply as that. 
  
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You have a good point and unlike most of the others you managed to reply without using the "pseudo-Einstein who holds the Universal truth" approach that many others sadly use online, which probably shows why you're a forum director and others are not. 
You did provide a valid explanation as to why Noob is the older Sub-Zero wether hid ending happens or not, which has really convinced me that it makes perfect sense to take for granted that Noob is the older Sub-Zero. Anyway, as you and all others who don't act like they're the greatest thing to ever live can see, there are people who, like me, think that he is not the older Sub-Zero unless it's stated in a further MK game, which validates this thread and the question it poses.
 
You did provide a valid explanation as to why Noob is the older Sub-Zero wether hid ending happens or not, which has really convinced me that it makes perfect sense to take for granted that Noob is the older Sub-Zero. Anyway, as you and all others who don't act like they're the greatest thing to ever live can see, there are people who, like me, think that he is not the older Sub-Zero unless it's stated in a further MK game, which validates this thread and the question it poses.
~Crow~ Wrote:
Let me show you why this makes no sense...
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
Let me show you why this makes no sense...
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
DamRho Wrote:
I was kind of wondering because I always feel strange when people walk around saying that
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
 I was kind of wondering because I always feel strange when people walk around saying that
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
... MK endings are NOT canon, they never were, they always were "what if" scenarios, but why does EVERYBODY is now accepting Noob Smoke's ending automatically as canon when it really isn't until MK7 (or another MK game for that matter) specifically states in its storyline or anywhere else that is NOT ONE OF THE ENDINGS that Noob Smoke's ending from MK: Deception is in fact true? I know this is a cool ending, but it's not a fact yet! the older Sub-Zero is actually Noob Saibot
Example 1: In MK2's endings Scorpion and the younger Sub-Zero made a pact, under which Scorpion would become Sub-Zero's protector. As we know, that never happened and that ending was proven to be non canon.
Example 2: In MK1's Raiden ending he practically destroys the whole planet after he finishes off Shang Tsung. As we know, that never happened. Have a nice day.
Do I need to give out more examples?! Stop taking Noob Smoke's ending for granted, none of the endings ever is *real* so why should this one be accepted as *real* so soon, just because it would be great?
Well, in MK2 Ending Scorpion become the protector of Sub-Zero. This was revelead in UMK3 too, when Scorpion decide to not fight for Shao Kahn because that promise.
In MK4, because the promise of gain life, Scorpion fight along Shinnok. After that, Scorpion discover that Quan Chi is the true killer of his clan and family and take him to Netherealm. This was canon too. Quan Chi escapes from Scorpion with the help of Drahmin and Moloch and allie himself with Shang Tsung (the Deadly Alliance).
So, some endings are canon, like Scorpion...
About Raiden's ending in MK1, well Raiden was evil then. I think that his mission as protector of earthrealm only come in MK2.
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Songokou_SSJ3 Wrote:
Half of the ending is true Noob is actually Sub-Zero. The second half of it (that he killed Subby) may be truth but not for sure.
 
And please don`t ask

 : 
What`s with Reiko. In MK4 it looked like he is in fact Shao Kahn!
HE IS NOT SHAO!! MK team said that.
And also they said that Noob is Sub!
Peace!
 
 Half of the ending is true Noob is actually Sub-Zero. The second half of it (that he killed Subby) may be truth but not for sure.
~Crow~ Wrote:
Let me show you why this makes no sense...
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
 Let me show you why this makes no sense...
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is canon.
Noob Saibot is in fact who the ending says he is.
-----
What-if : Noob-Smoke's ending is not canon.
Noob Saibot cannot simply become someone else simply because of this ending. He either is or isn't. If the ending itself doesn't happen, Noob will still be Sub-Zero. He cannot simply change his identity. Comparing this to a stance change (like Raiden) cannot be done... you can control if you are good or evil... you cannot control who or what you are physically.
And please don`t ask
What`s with Reiko. In MK4 it looked like he is in fact Shao Kahn!
HE IS NOT SHAO!! MK team said that.
And also they said that Noob is Sub!
Peace!
There's a different between "look" and "say".
My opinion: Saibot is older Subbie, but he didn't kill SZ jr, so his ending isn't fully cannon just like Quan Chi's or Sub-Zero's. But, as other people have already said, Midway said he was. What more do you need?


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Damn, I didn't even know Noob-Saibot was Sub-Zero's older brother ... maybe I should take out Deception from my closet and play it again being that I only beat the game with Mileena. 
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about noob... it was in the interview early in mkd production 
Will Noob ever going to fight Sub-Zero
MKT: Yeah that would be cool to see two brothers fighting
It`s not word to word but it is true
Will Noob ever going to fight Sub-Zero
MKT: Yeah that would be cool to see two brothers fighting
It`s not word to word but it is true
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Might seem like i'm beating a dead horse here, but simply put, most endings aren't considered canon because they look into the future, while Noob's is considered canon because it tells about the past. It gives history to the character, just as Bo Rai Cho was given history in MKDA, when we we told he had taught Earth's warriors. Those things are considered canon because they've already happened. 
Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
krackerjack Wrote:
Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
 Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
lol, yeah I could see that happening, too
krackerjack Wrote: 
Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
 Besides, if Midway were to say "This character has always been this" in one game, then turn around and say "What? What are you talking about? That never happened" in the next game, that would be ridiculous, even for Mortal Kombat (though I wouldn't put it past them).
**Mumbles something baout Johnny Cage being dead**
But seriously, I doubt they'd go that low. It's one thing to retcon events, another to retcon personality.
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OK well basically its like this. Nothing is canon until the next MK. Endings say alot but is all talk and no walk. All Noobs ending is sayings is that Midway is thinking of making Noob the original Sub. 
It was stated earlier that you can't change who you are just your status as good/evil ect. That is one sided thinking. By saying that basically means you think Noob is old Sub. Also by saying that is trying to change who noob is......Noob is on a leaning balance beam right now...If it tips one way his ending will be bull and he is still Noob Saibot. If it tilts the other way He is the orginal Sub who got killed and became a wraith. His identity as of now is on the verge of confirmation. So to say he is NOT old sub is wrong and to say he is Sub is also wrong....The only right answer is he might be Noob, a seperate identity or he might be Sub transformed.
And if you want a perfect example of crappy endings that changed someone and was not canon which could stand up against noob being older sub then look at MKDA. Perfect example is Liu Kang taking over Kano's body and becoming Kano Kang or Liu Kano lol. Why didnt people rage on about this actually happening? because it sounded silly and you wouldnt accept it? its not about you its about what midway decides.
It was stated earlier that you can't change who you are just your status as good/evil ect. That is one sided thinking. By saying that basically means you think Noob is old Sub. Also by saying that is trying to change who noob is......Noob is on a leaning balance beam right now...If it tips one way his ending will be bull and he is still Noob Saibot. If it tilts the other way He is the orginal Sub who got killed and became a wraith. His identity as of now is on the verge of confirmation. So to say he is NOT old sub is wrong and to say he is Sub is also wrong....The only right answer is he might be Noob, a seperate identity or he might be Sub transformed.
And if you want a perfect example of crappy endings that changed someone and was not canon which could stand up against noob being older sub then look at MKDA. Perfect example is Liu Kang taking over Kano's body and becoming Kano Kang or Liu Kano lol. Why didnt people rage on about this actually happening? because it sounded silly and you wouldnt accept it? its not about you its about what midway decides.
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This is just like the "Reptile is the DK" stuff from DA's days. That has been settled because it's shown as truth in this game. Basically I'm agreeing that stuff isn't canan untill it's shown as canon in the next chapter of the story. 
Ka-Tra
Ka-Tra
It doesn't make sense to think that Noob isn't the original Sub-Zero. Whether he killed his brother or not makes no difference. The past vs. the future arugment is valid. If they state that it is the past, then that would be canon, but the future (killing Subbie) is not validated until the next game. 
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WEll when it comes down to the wire you cant believe anything......not even the PAST. Because if i do recall the past states that Goro was killed by Noob Saibot.....and alas here he is again. Also the past confirmed that Johnny Cage was dead but then amazingly he never really was actually dead. Just coz the a ending states something in the past doesnt mean its canon. Why? Coz nothings canon until the next chapter and that should be the bottom line.
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