I never said you can't wear it or any thing of that sort but that the fact still remains that the old leaders of dixie used our symoble of our past as a symoble of there hate and that you need to rember other peoples feelings on this issue when wearing or caring this flag around all so just becare full of where you are when wear it because it can get you in to fights with people who could care less what you think of the flag and only rember what it has mean to past few gernertions.

I definitely see what your saying there, I don't carry a flag around or anything, infact all I have is a poster of it lol As much as I believe in my right to do so, and believe it is not a symbol of slavery, I realzie a lot of people feel this way so I would never go wave it around in public.

I'm not a jackass.

Here's a more expanded view of the Civil War.

The Civil War was about economics..... and slavery as well. Over time slavery was was becoming obsolete economicaly because of the cottongen. The fact that a machine could do more than four times the work of a slave proved to be a boon to the plantation owners.

In the north, "radical Republicans", those who were sympathetic to the cause of giving blacks at that time voting rights and full citizenship pushed hard for their cause. The issue came up with during the Dread Scott decision where the Supreme Court said that a slaves could not be free even in the north where slavery was not allowed. The south contended that slaves were property and since slaves were considered property, that diminished the cause of the radical Reps. in the eyes of the south.

The issue was two fold was that as the southern plantation owners found owning slaves not as profitable as once before, they still believed that owning slaves was their right. Of course events of "Bleeding Kansas" and others fulled the flames of division politically btw the north and south.

The war itself, had an economic element of course as well as a constitutional element in terms of the right of southerners right to own slaves. But it also had a political element as well for the south seceeded from the union. The war was about all three and the history of the confederate flage reflects all aspect of the war.

So to say that it was economic is right, however to sayu that it wasn't about slavery is wrong. Economics, slavery, and the issue of states rights all had a part to play in the Civil War. Here's that thing, to celebrate and honor the confederate flag and it's history is fine, but if you're goung to aknowledge only one aspect of it's history and forsake the others, then your're only chosing to accept that which was favorable in some peoples view. To forsake the complete history of the clag what what people fought for is to cherry pick it's history where it suits a persons views.

The Confederate flag has more history than a great deal of the south would either choose to aknowlegde or know. This not only includes the years of the civil war but from Reconstruction to the the 1960's. The feason why it's not looked upon with great favor by many, specifically african americans in the south, is because there has been a long history of oppression under the banner of the Confederate flag that many have not forgotten and has been taught down through the generations. History itself was recorded this as well in photograph, documents, and on film.

To choose only part of history as your entire history is wrong in the eys of history and those that still remember it. Now I'm not saying that no one should fly the Confederate flag. That's their right. But let me give finish with this fact.

The histroy of the Nazi swastika doesn't begin in Germany. The symbol itself is an ancient Buddist symbol that was used by its faithfull for centuries. The symbol has several meanings and 'unity' is one of them. When the Nazi's took it and used it for their purposes, the symbol that meant nothing to those who had never seen it becamse something that we all know. There was a story a couple years ago about a martial arts school that used the symbol on their uniforms and people were angry that they had used it. Now those in the school meant only to use it for they believed only the Buddist origins of it, but the history of how it was used by the Nazi's had tainted it to where they could no longer wear them.

History has a way of giving more than one meaning to a thing. If people want to proudly wave the Confederate flag then they should understand it's entire history so they can be on par with the world. You can't choose what part of history you want to celebrate. You can't choose to believe half of the truth. History has to be taken as a whole, not in parts.


I'm Ghost!

Ghost Dragon

I see what your saying Ghost, and I guess at different times it did represent racism, and it did represent slavery during the Civil War. But for me as a Southerner who lives in the year 2004, and is non-Racist, it is a symbol of my heritage and a symbol of rebellion against authority. This doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the other aspects. Like I said, I know it is not right to go in the middle of a public square and fly it around, because I know how most people feel.

However, I was well aware of the Swatika's history(It's also found in Hinduism and Native American religion), and it's original meaning. However, in the case of Germany, it had never been in THEIR culture until it was brought in as a symbol of the Nazi's, and therefore in Germany the Buddhist and Hindu and Shamanistic meanings of it don't matter, it is the Nazi meaning.

However, it is not dead, and millions of people in India and in Buddhist countries still use the symbol, and I have seen Buddhists in the States wear necklaces with it(btw, the Buddhist version has a slightly different appearance than the Nazi). For millions of Buddhists and Hindu's, it still means peace and harmony.

I'm sure they are aware of its history with Germany, but they know what it means for them and that it isn't an anti-Jewish symbol or anything. Likewise, I know the Confederate flag's history..but I also know what it means to me, which is what matters as I don't parade it around in public anyway.

I like to say I was not try to make you look like a jack ass in my other Post but to inform you that you can get hurt if you wear in place with lot of black people who find the flag a symbol of all they had to fight. All so why the war flag of the Confederates why not there national flag because that flag is the flag of south at that time so if I made you look like jack ass I,m soory But My only point is that flag is not rasist because of the civil war but because of The civil rights movement.

If you guys ever visit Biloxi, MS go to the strip of casinos where Gulfport and Biloxi meet. You will see a naked man wearing nothing but a confederate flag. He's protesting the possible removal of the confederate flag image from the Mississipi state flag. By the way, I was born in the south. There is racism everywhere, but we have something called freedom of speech or freedom of thisthingisdisabled. That means Michael Jackson can wear a shirt that says "I love little boys" and he can't be prosecuted for it.....sad!

Slavery wasn't the only thing the South fought for. States Rights was another issue in the Civil War. The latter is why I support the Confederate Flag. The Tenth Amendment calls for "Federalism". Well, all I have to say is Federalism my ass! If we have "Federalism", then why is Congress using their power of "Federal funding" as a weapon to force the states to raise the legal drinking age to 21 and shit like that? Not only does that violate the TENTH Amendment, it also violates the TWENTY-FIRST Amendment! States are slowly losing their powers completely to the Federal government, and it is up to my generation to stop that cycle before it gets any worse!

I can definitely see what you are saying Bloodline, I'm not a seperatist and I'm certainly not anti-Federal government, hwoever I do agree that the country has become much more centralized government wise, and states seem to have less and less say.

The federal government is supposed to help and support the States(now I am not a libertarian, I believe in Federal funding for education and stuff, but I do think in a lot of cases the Fed. gov't also oversteps it's bounds constitutionally), the States aren't all supposed to be subservient to the Federal government.

I can definitely see what you are saying Bloodline, I'm not a seperatist and I'm certainly not anti-Federal government, hwoever I do agree that the country has become much more centralized government wise, and states seem to have less and less say.

The federal government is supposed to help and support the States(now I am not a libertarian, I believe in Federal funding for education and stuff, but I do think in a lot of cases the Fed. gov't also oversteps it's bounds constitutionally), the States aren't all supposed to be subservient to the Federal government.

I understand, and I from the North and I'm African-American ^_^.

(Okay now to read the rest of the replies hehe, sorry, had to say that).

TheTinMan2005 Wrote: This was a pretty hot button issue a couple of years ago but has been overshadowed as of late. I thought it would be an interesting discussion. Let me espouse my point-of-view first. I was born and raised here in Texas, and my father was born in Alabama and most of that side of my family still live there. I am not a racist. I'm a liberal, and I support Affirmative Action. However, I must digress, I am pro-flag. For me the flag is more of a cultural and historical symbol, and not anything racist. It's been labeled as a symbol for slavery, however, this is a common lack of historical..perception most people have. Any true historian would tell you that the main issue of the civil war was not slavery, but the true heart of the conflict was more over economics(the south was more agrarian and the north was more industrial) and more over the rights of states. For me, the flag is actually a symbol against tyranny(in this case of the Federal government), and a symbol of rebellion. I've found no matter how eloquently this is explained by many people, Northerners seem to just not get it. It seems to bother them that even though they won the Civil war and we are an integrated part of the country, we are still proud of our heritage at the same time. I got an interest in the subject after coming across a transcript of a Phil Donahue episode on the subject. Although the Southern guest on it made some ignorant and arrogant remarks, a comment from one of the audience members struck me quite oddly. There had been an attempt to arrest the South guest for carrying a Confederate flag, and the audience member called carrying it 'unconstitutional'. I find it disturbing that someone can find it unconstitutional for one group to still use a flag of cultural pride, while its ok for others groups to(such as African-Americans using the tri-color pan-African flag). Opinions? Thoughts?

I see a bunch of kids at my high school with you know the huge trucks that you know they go mudding in. They have the rebel flags all over it but they just see it as their ancestry and history, because you'll see them talk to black people and they'll all be fine with each other. People even wear shirts with rebel flags that say "Proud to be Dixie" and whatnot. I know it's a sensitive issue down here and my dad isnt into it and neither am I, i've never been a proud rebel flag bearer, my dad usually laughs at people who overuse it. And yes I am white. 100% for all I know.

The true meaning of a symbol is based off what it was created to represent, not what others feel it represents...