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Chrome
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09/09/2014 01:05 PM (UTC)
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Oh this is just in:

Kevin Sorbo, let me exmplain how this works. We do not hate God, I cannot hate something that to my knowledge does not exists. Just because you say we MUST believe in something does not mean we do. Attention whore.


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raidenthefridge
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Thanks to MINION for taking my Siginity!

09/09/2014 01:28 PM (UTC)
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Imagine if someone invented a time machine and went back in time and rewrote the bible/quran etc to simply say "Try not to be a dick, k?"

Think of the world we would live in.
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RedSumac
09/09/2014 10:40 PM (UTC)
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raidenthefridge Wrote:
Imagine if someone invented a time machine and went back in time and rewrote the bible/quran etc to simply say "Try not to be a dick, k?"

Think of the world we would live in.

People still would have found reason to kill each other.

Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'm convinced that the concept of right and wrong is all man-made. I don't believe in God or any other deity. Just people. Mortal humans who are worshipping a fantasy, and uses that as an excuse to how they act.

It can bring out the best of people, but it can certainly get the worst out of people as well, but that is because we are capable of both being good and being bad. But it is all human! Saying it is some god's will is just throwing the responsibility away from your own actions.

Saved into text file with awesome quotes.
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RazorsEdge701
09/09/2014 11:03 PM (UTC)
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raidenthefridge Wrote:
Imagine if someone invented a time machine and went back in time and rewrote the bible/quran etc to simply say "Try not to be a dick, k?"

Think of the world we would live in.


Isn't "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" already in there?
People clearly only read the parts they WANT to read.
Like the Book of Leviticus is essentially a list of rules/laws that only applied to life in the ancient middle-east, like how many goats your daughter can be sold for or some shit like that...and yet a passage in there is the one people always turn to to oppose homosexuality, as if that one is relevant but women-as-merchandise isn't, let's just ignore that part.
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annilation
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I feel so alone, gonna end up a Big ole pile of them bones.

09/09/2014 11:42 PM (UTC)
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People forget that even without religion the world will not be any better. Mao Zedong and Stalin proved it. Human nature is something you have to understand.

Man's pride and greed is too high, and so is his lust for power. It's more of ideology, if 2 secular nations were formed together and one had resources the other needed you think there wouldn't be a war?

While I'm a theist I belong to no church because, I believe most of these preachers extort their followers for their own aims. But that's just me.

The world would just be the same as before, coming to this same exact conclusion.
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RedSumac
09/09/2014 11:45 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Like the Book of Leviticus is essentially a list of rules/laws that only applied to life in the ancient middle-east, like how many goats your daughter can be sold for or some shit like that...and yet a passage in there is the one people always turn to to oppose homosexuality, as if that one is relevant but women-as-merchandise isn't, let's just ignore that part.

Double standards and selective disregarding were always favorite games of humanity.
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Jaded-Raven
09/10/2014 02:18 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I'm convinced that the concept of right and wrong is all man-made. I don't believe in God or any other deity. Just people. Mortal humans who are worshipping a fantasy, and uses that as an excuse to how they act.

It can bring out the best of people, but it can certainly get the worst out of people as well, but that is because we are capable of both being good and being bad. But it is all human! Saying it is some god's will is just throwing the responsibility away from your own actions.

Saved into text file with awesome quotes.


... Is this a trap? >.>
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RedSumac
09/10/2014 02:40 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
... Is this a trap? >.>

No.
I do have a TXT file where I put interesting quotes and links.
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Jaded-Raven
09/10/2014 02:48 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
... Is this a trap? >.>

No.
I do have a TXT file where I put interesting quotes and links.


I just didn't expect you to think that about anything I wrote.
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RedSumac
09/10/2014 06:06 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I just didn't expect you to think that about anything I wrote.

It's a rare thing for me to have hatred that runs so deeped that I hate everything the person says and does. I rarely hate anyone at all. More just annoyed, surprised, irritated and entertained by some people.
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Chrome
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09/10/2014 06:57 AM (UTC)
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Humanity has always feared the unknown, but it does fear this notion even more, that we are ultimately alone and with finite time.

We create tyrants in the sky because a fictional father is still better than realizing that ultimately we are responsible fot everything we do. We just give a hollow face to justify stuff.

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RedSumac
09/10/2014 07:46 PM (UTC)
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Chrome Wrote:
Humanity has always feared the unknown, but it does fear this notion even more, that we are ultimately alone and with finite time.

We create tyrants in the sky because a fictional father is still better than realizing that ultimately we are responsible fot everything we do. We just give a hollow face to justify stuff.


And another save into file with awesome quotes.
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TemperaryUserName
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New sig on the way
09/11/2014 07:49 AM (UTC)
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I'm a little late making it back here, but better late than never. I tried spending some time in MKX, but that place has been hard to stomach lately.
Chrome Wrote:
Some clarification: free will and free choice is not the same. While I think we are biologically locked in certain decision-making mechanisms, there are multiple choices one can make. The independent choices are peresent, it is just that we are naturally make certain ones... bad analogy/simile incoming: pehaps instinctively. I am not a neurosurgeon, so stone me.

When it comes to the materialist theory of mind, a person's thoughts, choices, and even essence are the neural processes themselves. So even if predispositions and choices are distinct on the neural level, they both bow down to the biological processes as their final cause. This is completely out of a person's control.

Duelism has other problems with free will, but this isn't one of them. Because the mind and neural processes are distinct from each other, they can cause/influence each other. The materialist doesn't get that luxury. There can only be the stimuli and the response. All of it boils down to mechanism.

Even before modern science, numerous philosophers already came to this conclusion. If everything we do is mechanistic, then we're just as determined as the rest of nature.

Chrome Wrote:
Selfishness is in itself a natural occurence, and unless pathologically prominent, there is nothing wrong with it. Infact, it is necessary to survive. That does not mean that we can not be social people, and sharing is also essential to our survival. Also, it is one of our psychological needs.

Self-sacrifice is also natural. And selfish. Social bird males often fight for the right to perch atop trees to distract predators from their, and others offspring. It is a bioogical-social function that allows safekeeping the genepool. That is not to discount that there is genuine self-sacrifice. There are people for whom I would sacrifice myself if there is absolutely no choice left.

That's not enough for morality, though. All these imperatives are preference-based inside your own subjectivity. The person who sacrifices himself for a child and the racist redneck who wastes away in front of Fox News are both just satisfying preferences at the end of the day.

One may say that the former is maximizing utility, but the minute anyone asserts that utility has actual intrinsic value, we're back inside epistemological hell trying to find objective value in the universe.

Chrome Wrote:
Even so, if there is some primordial yet unseen force, what makes you think that it's Yahveh? Or Amaterasu, or Byelobog, or whatever godhead, mythological person is that?

There are multiple answers to this. I'll give two, though.

The first reason is that the trinitarian model of God solves the eternal/temporal problem of Godhood. If we know the agent exists, then we have to explain how an eternal entity interacts with temporal entities, and Christianity's model of God best answers the issue because the Christian God has a nature that extends itself ontologically in a way that other models do not.

The second reason being that the Christian theories of knowledge make the most sense to me. I'm a firm believer in forms and universals, and Christians do the epistemology better than anyone else.

Chrome Wrote:
My beef is mostly moral, and even if God would show himself, and it is in my capacity to choose, I still would not want the Christian god -as he is depicted- as a personal deity.
Then, God would have a lot to answer for.

Most of the answers are already out there. I mean, yeah, the Christian doesn't have an explicit answer on why people get killed by Tornadoes or Earthquakes. That's a bit more complicated, and the explanation requires a lot of theory and speculation.

For everything else, there's no shortage of literature on the subject. There are stacks of books written on the levitical/Deuterotical laws and why they made sense for the Israelites (and it bears repeating that they were never meant for anyone else but the Israelites). In regards to modern issues, the reasoning behind virtually all moral stances is spelled out pretty clearly.

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Chrome
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09/11/2014 03:21 PM (UTC)
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Assuming there is an agent. on the existence of the universe:

I do not assume that the universe itself is knowable, at least to us, yet. it might be absolutely unknowable and it might as well be, that what we experience as an order to the universe is itself a temporal phenomenon and that the universe itself lacks causality, order and all laws, or rather recurring phenomena are temporarily present for us.

Short version: the universe truly might lack any kind of structure. The only thing we might do is to try to understand as much as possible even if we come to conclusions that might be proven wrong, we advance by trying.

There is nothing more exciting to me than the mysteries that remain to be solved. There is an other thing, I do not want this to come out as a proclamation that since we do not understand everything, no one else will or can later understand it. That would be hubristic, and all I want to say is that our world -independent from our efforts and will- might be ultimately unstructurable.


My stances on the presupposition that gods exist and that he/they is/are moral conincide with what arguments Iron Chariots have amalgamated. Same goes for most of the moral questions.

Also: We are made of the fundamental products of nuclear fission in celestial objects. Forget Jesus Christ, the stars died for you.
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