

TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
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Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.
1) I revealed how much of a dork I am by being the only person to write such a comprehensive analysis of the issue.
2) Regardless of what I write on the issue, nobody will ever pay attention to me because I'm such a dork.


<3


TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
-
Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.
I'm starting to think one of two things about myself right now.
1) I revealed how much of a dork I am by being the only person to write such a comprehensive analysis of the issue.
2) Regardless of what I write on the issue, nobody will ever pay attention to me because I'm such a dork.
I did too in the other page, stating why the question is irrelevant as Pharallax(Hal Jordan) could kill them both.


TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
-
Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.

Basically, whatever Goku has in his arsenal, Superman at absolute worst matches if not far exceeds. Though I'd like to hear of some Goku feats that Superman can't match if anyone has them.
What use is speed against instant translocation/transmission?
Instant transmission has rules just like anything else. First off, it's not exactly instantaneous. Well, it is, but every single time Goku uses it he first has to lock on to the location. It's not like Nightcrawler and poof. So that alone seems to take a few seconds. I think he used it once during the Cell fight pretty quickly to reangle his Kamehameha but even that one I don't remember being without a slight pause. Even so, Instant Transmission will get Goku around but it doesn't seem to be much use in actual combat. If it were then he'd use it more often. You never see Goku just popping in and out for just normal movement. He still needs to run/fly in battle (much slower than Superman can).
Let's imagine the absolute best case scenario. Superman attacks, Goku uses Instant Transmission to get away and puts himself in a location out of Clark's line of sight. That gives Goku maybe two seconds to do something before Superman regains composure and finds him. What does he do? I've already established that most anything Goku can throw out Clark is more than capable of handling. Even if Goku summed up all his power and launched a huge attack that blew up the planet, that would kill Goku but Supes would most likely survive. Even if Goku teleported to Namek and blew up Earth from a distance, you'd have a briefly happy Goku and a really really pissed off Superman. Not that Goku would even do something of the sort but for the purposes of this out of character battle...
The thing is with Instant transmission is that Goku can appear anywhere in one second, we're not taking about 100 yards or anything. Superman can fly to the Sun in 8 minutes? Goku can use Instant Tranmission, blow up the Sun, instant tranmission to another Galaxy, while the earth, mars and all the other planets be destroyed by the Sun's aftermath, where's Superman 8 minute to the Sun speed then?
If the weakened no Sun Superman somehow survives being in the middle of the destruction of an entire Solar System then Goku can just do it again.
If we're talking about whether Goku would want to or not then lets get Kid buu instead, he can do the same, hell why not just absorb Superman while he's at it.


TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
-
Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.
The thing about Superman is that he's a solar battery. Meaning that he doesn't instantly weaken without a yellow sun just as you and I don't instantly weaken when we're not eating something. Only after prolonged (and I do mean prolonged) lack of yellow sunlight would Superman begin to feel the effects. Goku weakens after releasing a whole lot of ki as well so who's more likely to feel fatigue first? The solar battery or the guy doing his damnest to blow up stars? Second, Goku's ki waves do not move at light speed or light speed at absolute best considering the time it takes for them to connect. Based on those facts, the moment Goku attempts to blow up the sun, Superman can beat the ki wave there and sundip. A sundipped Superman is not going to just let the oncomming ki wave hit its mark. Third, even if Goku did blow up the sun, there are a lot of yellow stars in the universe. Superman can find his way to another. But based on what you're suggesting, Goku could just blow up the sun, teleport somewhere else and blow up whatever star Superman is trying to reach. What you're forgetting is that Goku cannot survive without an atmosphere. So he would have to find a planet capable of sustaining life before actually teleporting anywhere in the first place. All Superman needs to do is find a yellow star without any life sustaining planets surrounding it. Not a difficult task, mind you, when you can move faster than light speed.
I've already established that Goku doesn't have the raw power to do much damage to Clark and none of that has been refuted. So based on your stance that Instant Transmission gives Goku the edge, then by all accounts you're suggesting that anyone with capable of teleporting could beat Superman. Being able to avoid Superman doesn't constitute a victory over Superman. So by your own admission, Goku can't really win the fight but only survive long enough blowing up solar systems to force Supes to do a whole lot of traveling. Goku would run out of inhabitable planets long before Superman ran out of yellow stars.
As for Buu, well, this wasn't really about him. It is true that some characters have strengths that play into Superman's weaknesses. Silver Surfer for instance. Superman may be able to match him in strength but Surfer can drain Clark's solar reserves. If Buu did absorb Superman, sure, that'd constitute beating him. But Buu had to struggle so he could absorb Gotenks and Gohan. He wasn't even able to keep them secured. So who's to say that Superman wouldn't be able to avoid the absorption in the first place? Buu can't move as fast as Superman and doesn't have Instant Transmission.


Save a life; Kill a necromorph
I'm starting to think one of two things about myself right now.
1) I revealed how much of a dork I am by being the only person to write such a comprehensive analysis of the issue.
2) Regardless of what I write on the issue, nobody will ever pay attention to me because I'm such a dork.
yes you are a dork..........
This just shows how inconsistant the series is. Goku is NO match for Supes (unless he made some kind of advantageous wish with the dragonballs), but this does seem to be considerably below other feats of strength in the series.

First, about Goku destroying the Sun. Just as I said about planets blowing up, an in character Goku would never blow up the sun any more than either Goku or Superman would put innocent lives in jeapordy. But I'll entertain your point since it seems we've ventured into out of character all out fights anyway.
The thing about Superman is that he's a solar battery. Meaning that he doesn't instantly weaken without a yellow sun just as you and I don't instantly weaken when we're not eating something. Only after prolonged (and I do mean prolonged) lack of yellow sunlight would Superman begin to feel the effects. Goku weakens after releasing a whole lot of ki as well so who's more likely to feel fatigue first? The solar battery or the guy doing his damnest to blow up stars? Second, Goku's ki waves do not move at light speed or light speed at absolute best considering the time it takes for them to connect. Based on those facts, the moment Goku attempts to blow up the sun, Superman can beat the ki wave there and sundip. A sundipped Superman is not going to just let the oncomming ki wave hit its mark. Third, even if Goku did blow up the sun, there are a lot of yellow stars in the universe. Superman can find his way to another. But based on what you're suggesting, Goku could just blow up the sun, teleport somewhere else and blow up whatever star Superman is trying to reach. What you're forgetting is that Goku cannot survive without an atmosphere. So he would have to find a planet capable of sustaining life before actually teleporting anywhere in the first place. All Superman needs to do is find a yellow star without any life sustaining planets surrounding it. Not a difficult task, mind you, when you can move faster than light speed.
I've already established that Goku doesn't have the raw power to do much damage to Clark and none of that has been refuted. So based on your stance that Instant Transmission gives Goku the edge, then by all accounts you're suggesting that anyone with capable of teleporting could beat Superman. Being able to avoid Superman doesn't constitute a victory over Superman. So by your own admission, Goku can't really win the fight but only survive long enough blowing up solar systems to force Supes to do a whole lot of traveling. Goku would run out of inhabitable planets long before Superman ran out of yellow stars.
As for Buu, well, this wasn't really about him. It is true that some characters have strengths that play into Superman's weaknesses. Silver Surfer for instance. Superman may be able to match him in strength but Surfer can drain Clark's solar reserves. If Buu did absorb Superman, sure, that'd constitute beating him. But Buu had to struggle so he could absorb Gotenks and Gohan. He wasn't even able to keep them secured. So who's to say that Superman wouldn't be able to avoid the absorption in the first place? Buu can't move as fast as Superman and doesn't have Instant Transmission.
1. In the Babidi saga it was stated that goku had the power to blow up a planet 20 times over at SSJ1. So for arguments sake let's say at level 1, Goku has the power to destroy the Sun 10 times over.
2. It would take him 5 seconds to do it in with Instant Transmission, Superman wouldn't even be there for another 7 minutes and 55 seconds, he'd only just have left the Earth.
3. Buu didn't have any problems absorbing Gohan and Gotenks. He absorbed Gotenks infront of Gohan without Gohan being able to do anything as he absorbed Gohan infront of Goku without him being able to do anything. Unless Superman has learnt how to create forcefields like Vegetto did then Superman won't be able to prevent being absorbed and staying there forever.
4. Buu can use Instant Transmission.


TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
-
Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.
You're really grasping here in order to defend Goku's potential. I mean, people try to argue that Batman could beat Superman but then interject details like kryptonite and sneak attacks, etc. There's a difference between beating Superman and being able to kill Superman in some fashion. Lex Luthor could kill Superman. Doesn't mean if they're in a fight (the kind we're talking here) Lex wouldn't end up dead. For all your out of character points about Goku teleporting around blowing up stars, I could just as easily reiterate my point that Goku can't teleport without a reasonable delay (locking on to his target) and suggest that Superman kills him then. I find out of character battles stupid for this reason. They don't really say anything about the characters in question.
But as of now, you've done nothing but argue that Instant Transmission > Superman. Which even based on Dragonball's own rules is blatantly untrue. Goku can't teleport anywhere he can't survive and it takes him time to identify his target. Even if Goku blows up the sun, Superman can survive a supernova. Goku is then stuck bouncing around to inhabitable planets (because he can't survive on a star) while Superman finds a star with no planets, gets some lunch, takes a dump, and lets Goku tire himself out. Goku still is much weaker in power than Supes. That still hasn't been challenged. Teleportation at best will prolong the fight. Not win it.
Let's think about this based on the facts and only the facts. No conjecture, no "what if" scenarios. And also make it in character. So the fight will take place on Earth, in a relatively uninhabited location, with no intergalactic destruction. Both hold back enough to protect the planet. So what then? Well, we know that Superman does naturally move much faster than Goku. We can agree on that. Now Goku has Instant Transmission. But being in character, he isn't going to teleport anywhere off of Earth and blow it up, nor would he go anywhere around innocent bystanders. So he would only teleport to places in the immediate viscinity. Plus, when has Goku ever taken full advantage of Instant Transmission in battle? I recall only one instance where he's even used it at all during a fight and that was against Cell. Based on Dragonball's own facts, Goku cannot just "poof" around. He just can't. So in a real fight, he still has to rely on his natural speed for movement. Goku really doesn't stand a chance in or out of character.

I don't remember Buu using Instant Transmission but I'll take your word for it.
Kid Buu went around destroying planets in seconds during his saga, was at the time went goku and Vegeta went to Kai planet and Buu blow up the Earth.
But what is it with this "destroy the sun 20 times over" stuff? How does that really help in any way?
In an earlier posted you stated or rather claimed that he'd get tired
Goku weakens after releasing a whole lot of ki as well so who's more likely to feel fatigue first? The solar battery or the guy doing his damnest to blow up stars?
I've just proven it wrong, that's all.
Based on your 5 second comment, it seems like you're operating under the assumption that Goku would teleport to the sun itself in order to destroy it. There is no evidence that he is capable of surviving in that kind of environment. Especially since a star has no breathable air which Goku does require. Goku cannot set foot anywhere besides a life sustaining planet. That's blatant fact set up by Dragonball itself. So what does Goku really have in reserve?
Now you're just being awkward. OK, 5 seconds to I.T there and blow up the sun, another 2 seconds to Instant transmission to another place. Let's say Kai planet, or new Namek. Hell give him an extra 3 seconds to find the place.
1. With Instant Transmission Goku would get away a long time before the Sun actually explodes.
2. Try holding your breath for 10 seconds, I guarantee you will not die from lack of oxygen. Neither will Goku.
You're really grasping here in order to defend Goku's potential. I mean, people try to argue that Batman could beat Superman but then interject details like kryptonite and sneak attacks, etc. There's a difference between beating Superman and being able to kill Superman in some fashion. Lex Luthor could kill Superman. Doesn't mean if they're in a fight (the kind we're talking here) Lex wouldn't end up dead. For all your out of character points about Goku teleporting around blowing up stars, I could just as easily reiterate my point that Goku can't teleport without a reasonable delay (locking on to his target) and suggest that Superman kills him then. I find out of character battles stupid for this reason. They don't really say anything about the characters in question.
Are you forgeting that within seconds Goku can teleport to places that it would take superman months and in some cases years to fly to?
Why not teleport to a the opposite side of a planet Superman is passing, blow it up in his face meanwhile teleporting back to were he was first before Superman even knew he was there?
But as of now, you've done nothing but argue that Instant Transmission > Superman. Which even based on Dragonball's own rules is blatantly untrue. Goku can't teleport anywhere he can't survive and it takes him time to identify his target. Even if Goku blows up the sun, Superman can survive a supernova. Goku is then stuck bouncing around to inhabitable planets (because he can't survive on a star) while Superman finds a star with no planets, gets some lunch, takes a dump, and lets Goku tire himself out. Goku still is much weaker in power than Supes. That still hasn't been challenged. Teleportation at best will prolong the fight. Not win it.
Let's think about this based on the facts and only the facts. No conjecture, no "what if" scenarios. And also make it in character. So the fight will take place on Earth, in a relatively uninhabited location, with no intergalactic destruction. Both hold back enough to protect the planet. So what then? Well, we know that Superman does naturally move much faster than Goku. We can agree on that. Now Goku has Instant Transmission. But being in character, he isn't going to teleport anywhere off of Earth and blow it up, nor would he go anywhere around innocent bystanders. So he would only teleport to places in the immediate viscinity. Plus, when has Goku ever taken full advantage of Instant Transmission in battle? I recall only one instance where he's even used it at all during a fight and that was against Cell. Based on Dragonball's own facts, Goku cannot just "poof" around. He just can't. So in a real fight, he still has to rely on his natural speed for movement. Goku really doesn't stand a chance in or out of character.
Goku can just "poof" around, and did so during the SSJ3 vs Fat Buu fight. Plus he wasn't trying that hard to do it in that fight as he was just trying to delay Buu.
Teleportation isn't limited to I.T, short distance teleporting has always been a part of DBZ. Superman throws a punch, Goku appears behind him before Superman's fist has gotten near. Sure according to you his long distance speed is faster than Goku's, but even Goku can see something really fast coming towards him. He's fought and beaten many people faster than him.
From what I've seen of Superman he can still take a punch and go flying, I wouldn't underestimate a swing hitting an off-guard Superman.


TonyTheTiger - Forum Director
Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
-
Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.
But to the topic, superman may be all mighty and powerful, but, if goku has just a litttle amount of time, he could instant transmission to a place that has Kryptonite and when superman gets there goku would shove it in his face leaving superwhore weak then goku goes SS4 and end of superman.
EDIT: P.S-Put Cable, Phoenix, or Silver Surfer up against SUperman and its over for Superman!!