Pleased to hear that man:)

I haven't heard of that, perhaps I'll look into that Walmart incident, that's a bit silly in hindsight as the music is not degrading or inflamatory to anyone in any actual way, it speaks more to the person's predjudice that was complaining than anything.



Happy Holidays is just a term that covers all the holidays, Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanza, Soltice, New Year, it's not exclusionary of Christmas, it's just including everything else in one encompassing term, I actually used to give out cards during the holidays to my friends, I had some Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Wiccan, and Agnostic friends and I always would write Happy Holidays, it's just for convience sake as opposed to excluding Christmas or as a shot at it.

The pledge of allegience is rather tricky, historically speaking, the under God part wasn't added until sometime during the Cold war, out of fear of the Soviets and the Soviet Union's professed Atheisim as apart of state policy, I presume the powers that be wanted to reassure themselves of their faith.

I would imagine that calls for it to be returned to its original state formed out of the secular character of our Constitution and of the original pledge of alleigience not referencing God or gods as the case might be for various people.

Also of note, we didn't use to print under God on our money, that I believe also started during the Cold war, a byproduct of fears of Soviet Union, they were quite massive during that time.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

no sweat bro!

and yeah it was during the late 50s when they added "under God" to the pledge.

well all i want is that people wont be so lenient to Islam so much that they can get away with many things that Christians cant.

I dont blame Muslims or anything i blame false Christians that pretend to be what they are most certainly are not! Muslims have been faithful to their religion so they have earned the right to practice without remark (to the most part) while Christianity falls short of that cause of hypocrites

on that note i want to answer sorry i forgot who said it that they havent seen a true Christian.

Being a Christian is HARD, and because of that I, for one, fail EVERY DAY since after all im only human.

So a true Christian isnt someone who is perfect all the time but is one who might fall but asks for forgiveness and gets back up. those who made a mistake but stay in it for the rest of their lives not making an effort to change or apologize (like those "christians" in the video) are not true christians.

sorry i dont wanna rant but i just love talking about this since many have a misunderstanding of what it is



and UNdiscovered thank you for your contribution

I just watched the video, and seeing those people act like fucking assholes made me sick. *sigh* Sometimes, I really can't stand human beings as a species. I'm just relieved that they didn't get too frisky and start physically pushing that man around or harming him, and I'm glad that woman informed them that he was praying for them and their families the entire time. It's seeing that type of hateful shit that makes me frown at the masses.

These videos make me sad, because every time someone acts like this, the bridge of communication gets a little weaker.

And Shoe's right. There is no comprehensive definition of religion. If you were to take the common denominator every known religion, the most specific definition you could come up with is "stuff that people happen to feel strongly about." All creeds at the advanced level turn into philosophy anyway.

I assure you those Christians have read the Bible plenty, they just interpret it however they want to, like almost any Christian does. If you're a nice guy, Jesus is a nice guy. If you're a douche, Jesus is a douche. If you have a fucked-up definition of "love," so does Jesus. If you love America, so does Jesus. If you like country music, so does Jesus. If you oppose the civil liberties of gays, so does Jesus. If you think Muslims are dirty scoundrels, Jesus does too. The list goes on and on. These people claim to be following Jesus, and molding themselves into his image, but the reality is that the exact opposite is taking place.

As I was telling someone else I was debating with earlier today, that's one of the great conveniences of having such a silent God; you can put whatever words you want into his mouth, and put whosever blood on his hands you want, and he doesn't protest. The perfect scapegoat.

One of the recent sociometrical evaluation of the USA and the European Union states which I have read stated that the amount of Christians who read he Bible regularly (weekly) by own choice and not by societal requirements (being in Church) amounts to less than 15%.

It is pretty variable over here, most Central/Eastern European states which are post-socialist are by majority either religious but do no practice, or atheist. The highest number of atheists is in the Czech Republic ironically (Hussites, being part of the reformant movement in the then Holy Roman Empire). Slovakia is characteristically Evangelical, but the majority is catholic, same with Hungary (majority Catholic, the patron saint is Mary herself, though Hungary has a history of religious freedom and a strong Protestant history).

None of us adhere to what the USA does: namely Christianizing every aspect. To say for example God Bless Hungary now and every turn which is a huge part of the American psyche would get weird looks. Same with waving around the flag. The flag is reserved for specific occasions and sport (boy, is it ever in sports).

Religion for the most part is not a public thing, it is a private matter. Trying Bible thumping here would not only get weird looks but the attention of the authorities themselves. What those guys did, would get the packed in the party van without question, especially in Slovakia where public disobedience, misbehaviour is to put it mildly: harshly frowned upon.

Hence why Scientology has a hard time with us. Strong folk ties to classical heritage religions, and generally not open to new things.

Original point: these people HAVE NOT READ the Bible enough times. Hence the lack of compassion. If I wanted to convert an Islamist I would not start by throwing MEANINGLESS TOKENS around before him when he is in prayer, but inviting him for a soda and talk...

And now for my random babble.

I believe in Christianity like I believe in the sun.
Not because I can see it, but because by it I see everything else - C.S Lewis.

Chrome was spot on when he said that although God is the same deity, our views of God are what separate us.

As a Christian my Interpretation of God is much different to that of Islam etc.

Christianity is derived wholly and completely from the life of Jesus Christ (God on earth) and as others have mentioned, people seem to lose track of that in the ways in which they approach conflict.

Violence is not how you resolve conflict... Violence is the result of hate which stems from fear.

Islam is based on fear
Christianity is based on faith

(I'm happy to debate this with anybody who believes others)
Oh and yes, I understand the hypocritical nature of that comment as Christians have proven otherwise (crusades etc) but that’s another story.

In today’s day and age it is difficult ... no, incredibly difficult to ensure we do our upmost to live a wholly and pure life in accordance with the word of God.
However we are imperfect and we are all sinners.

The difficulty though behind being a Christian is that we will often displease others. It is absolutely necessary that this be the case.
If we are not displeasing people we are doing something wrong.

I.e. Sex....
Sex outside of marriage is a straight out sin.
End of discussion.... this of course displeases people and therefore in defense of what society has defined as a good time, they reject the church and the churches teachings.

However, knowing it is a sin doesn’t mean i go round actively preaching to all my mates who are fu**ing around.
Society has already deemed sex outside of marriage to be normal, so by todays standards most people are doing nothing wrong...
Of course the definition between right and wrong has become incredibly blurred.

So the approach is what is important.

Now I’m using sex as an example but the point I’m getting at is that Christians (at least true Christians) will always look to defend their faith and if by doing so, certain people are displeased, then so be it.

I cannot make everybody happy, but I can win the respect of people through my actions.
Or even inactions at times.

Now this is what leads us to stay in groups... Society shuns us and the teachings of the church. Therefore I look myself for the re-assurance and comfort of my God friends whom I know share the same cultural and spiritual ambitions as I.

Another example of evangelizing by action would be here in Australia.
Abortion is straight forward another sin (I'm not debating abortion either)
but in defending my stance against abortion, I joined a group of Christians outside an abortion clinic and in silence prayed a rosary.

The message was clear, it displeased people, but never was the intent to intimidate or bully. In silence we prayed, and in return we were showered with rubbish/eggs/verbal abuse etc etc.

Still, our message was portrayed... and by Gods good grace we saved over 7 unborn children. One of which smiled for the first time last week (was fu**ing awesome)

But I guess the other issue here, looking at the big picture.
Is that Islam is rapidly growing... Why? because in simple Muslim families are outnumbering Christian families.

Lets look at Europe for example

Contraception/abortion are common place.
To maintain the population of most european countries families need to have 2.0 children per household.
However, recent studies have found Christian households have less than 1.9 children per household.

Despite all this the population has not only maintained... It's grown.
How??? Immigration
From where??? The middle east and Islam dominated countries...

Where does that leave us?

The problem with today’s society is not that religion exists... it is that TRUE religion is not utilized.

Now to be more straight forward...
I dont give a fu*k what religion you are and where you are from. The fundamental teaching of Religion is peace and harmony.

Unfortunately, some dont see it that way.
matter of fact, most people these days dont and havnt for the last 200 years.

So, again the interpretation is just as important and its often said that before Christians can look to save others, they need to look to save themselves first.

Arrrrr I could ramble on forver...

“Love one another as I have loved you”... that sums up everything and anything I could ever say

It's time for a breakdown. *cues the music.*
Not random. Directed.

Meaningless fluff.
I'll assume you mean only amongst Christians. Though, besides agreeing on God, the rest none of you agree on 100%. Not even on Jesus.


Again, depending on your sect of Christianity. You may be surprised at how similar some interpretations may be.
No, not wholly and completely. Some of it requires the Old Testament or else Jesus is not fulfilling any previous prophecies. Nevermind that those prophecies were already attempted to be fulfilled, and Jesus failed at them anyway.
I abhor violence. But it can be the only means left to resolving a conflict. Also, it may just stem from greed and cognitive dissonance. Hell, sometimes violence is the result of trying to make others better (Hand of God). It's naive to think otherwise.
It's so easy to find this kind of quality grade A bullshit said with a straight face. You do not know anything about Islam. I can only assume that you've got everything you ever knew about it from news. Or even more horrifically, at church. Check your bullshit at the door and read the Koran.

I'm sure you're willing to. So long as you're allowed to use logical fallacies. No doubt 80% are emotional appeals.

Oh, we don't have to go back to the crusades. I can cruise back to earlier in this post where you outright demonized Islam.

It was always incredibly difficult. You have to be perfect. I'd dare say that you're free to declare it wholly impossible. Go ahead.

Hey speak for yourself. My list of what counts as sins is way lower than yours. And there's no pyramid scheme behind it.

No, actually this is a wrong assumption. I get along quite well with Christians. A Jehovah Witness went by my house last month and they started their spiel. When they gave me a moment to speak -which actually wasn't more than a minute in- I smiled and apologized and said quite nicely "I'm sorry, but I'm an atheist." I was apologizing because they were just going to end up wasting their time. They smiled and told me "Oh, well ok." I told them to have a nice day and they returned it. Nobody ran. No hate, no fear. Though some sects preach that you have to push out the word, some of them have learned that others have heard it all before.

Would you ever apply this logic to anything else in life? If your doctor wasn't displeasing you he's doing something wrong. If tech support isn't displeasing you, they're doing something wrong. If the internet isn't displeasing you, it's doing something wrong. If your god isn't displeasing you, he's doing something wrong.

Let's talk about sex, baby. Let's talk about you and me.
Sex outside of marriage is a straight out sin.
Jesus never said that. Not once. I thought you established that what Jesus said is what mattered. The Old Testament even allows for plenty of scenarios where sex outside of marriage is not only allowed, but encouraged. I wonder where you got this crazy notion.

Ah, good. I was afraid you'd keep going on this tangent that bears no fruit. At least it was short enough that you didn't make yourself look worse.

Well dammit.

Sex and good time. I thought we were supposed to take Jesus' teachings. Now we have to contend with the teachings of every church? Did you not realize that not every church demonizes sex? Hell, some sects demonize sex even within marriage.

Because they won't listen. Instead you come on here preaching to the masses instead of in the closet. Like that guy said to do in that holy book. Somewhere around Matthew. Because you're not afraid of reprecussion.

So if morality has changed to accomodate something that is not talked about in your book, let alone actually condemned, then doesn't that tell you that your church is out of date?

As opposed to when it wasn't blurred? Like when women weren't allowed to even speak publicly in christian nations? Oh, how about that time when, if you weren't white, you were property? Or how about that time when, even if you were white, you were property? Or how about all those popes? Hey, I know! Martin Luther. Oh wait, he hated Jews and women. Well, we can agree that right and wrong wasn't blurred during Jesus' time. Except he came in and kicked up the tables in the temple to get rid of the money changers who were selling goats for the passover slaughter. Making both wrong depending on perspective. Well, let's go further back. Lot having sex with his daughters. :/ Abraham. Attempted murder. :| Adam and Eve. Tresspassing. I give up.

Define "true Christians". Unless it is defined as someone who defends their faith. Hell! I'll accept "people who defend Christianity". Atheist Defends Christian Values Oh. Huh. I guess that's a true christian as well. Too bad they don't believe in god or christ.

I don't try to make everybody happy. I don't win respect, I earn it through deeds. You certainly are not "winning" it here.

Ahhhh. Good old persecution complex. Roughly 90% of all Americans are religious. Easily 83% are chrisitian. He'll, globally christians make up 33% of all poeple. No religion? Try closer to 15%. Atheists? Estimates put it at about half of all identifying as "no religious affiliation". So, which of us is being persecuted? You can't claim persecution when you're in the majority. That'd be like middle aged white middle class men claiming persecution. No, request for persecution denied. Next ticket please.

I see. So only a measly 63.9% of the entire population is Christian. Oh, still not a minority. Still the largest religious group. NEXT.

Good because you'd have no chance of winning that.

But let's go ahead anyway! So, were they just loitering around? Giant crosses on their jackets? Or was this some kind of secret subsversive society where you go out and public and make a demonstration? I tried to hold off quoting as long as I could. But I can clearly only make my point this far along by shoving your own religion right back at you.
“Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you” (Matthew 6:5-6). Q.E.D. Let's continue!

I thought being displeased was all part of being christian. Like if people weren't displeased you weren't doing your job. I'm sure that you hanging around leering over other people NEVER made them feel bullied. After all, your intent wasn't to bully. After all, it's not your fault so long as you intend no harm. Nevermind that this has never been an easy issue for a woman to take up. It's not like someone writes down a list -Groceries, check the oil, baby murder, prepare supper, more whoring.- Of course. That begs the question. If it didn't displease you, why were you there? Isn't being displeased the whole secret handshake to know you're on god's side?


Awesome! Fantastic! Babies! Oh, btw, just for the numbers, 7 out of how many? Don't forget to count your failures, or it'll skew your statistics.

I knew this mine cart derailed at some point.

THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS! They must be having... >.> sex

Because looking at Australia, the US, or Venus is clearly not going to help you set your straw man on fire.

THOSE HEATHEN FUCKS!

Wait. MOST? Is like, Greece and Norway still using mythological means of childbirth?

Well, now who can we blame for that, Mr. SexIsSin?

Oh shit maybe it's witchcraft! It's witchcraft isn't it?

FUCK! I DON'T KNOW! I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WOULD BE A QUIZ! Shit! Shit! How? How the hell are people having kids if we rule out all the christian households in europe? Shut up! I can answer this. It can't be due to the tremendous secular population. FUCK! Um. I'm gonna go with...

Oh! Oh thank god. For a minute there I thought you were gonna say spontaneous baby generation. So it's just babies with passports. Good wholesome white christian babies. With awesome passport photos.

Oh hell where would immigrants come from? It could be anywhere in the world! Shit! Let's narrow it down. People can move between any country in Europe and count as an immigrant. But you're talking geographic regions. I'm going with... Ghana.
Ha! Do I win?

Oh hell naw! Don't tell me that she's Ghanaian AND IRANIAN!

Right of center with a tendency to fear monger and self persecute?

Oh, I see. Fuck that question. Also, TRUE religion. Is that an acronym or is it just more bullshit?

So you're saying that up until this point you're been bullshitting us? Well, that makes me feel a little more relieved.

... Unless you believe in the following: Sunni, Shia, Twelver, Ismailism, Zaidiyyah, Alawi, Alevi, Sufism, Qadiri, Bektashi, Chishti, Naqshbandi, Oveyssi, Suhrawardiyya, (other Sufi sects), Ahmadiyya, Lahorre Ahmadiyya, Kharijite, Ahl-e Haqq, Mahdavism, Moorish Science, Nation of Islam, Submitters, Zikri, Babism, Baha i, Druze, Sikhism, Five Percenter, Meivazhi, Nuwaubu, Subud.
Or live/come from the following: Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Turkey Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, Iraq, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Syria, Kazakhstan, Niger, Burkina Faso, Senegal, Tunisia, Guinea, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Tajikstan, Sierre Leon, Libya, Jordan, UAE, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Chad, Lebanon, Kuwait, Albania, Mauritania, Oman, Kosovo, The Gambia, Bahrain, Comoros, Qatar, Djibouti, Brunei, Maldives.
It's really a small group when you view it on a galactic scale. Anyway, ON WE GO!

Well at least you all agree on that! Except when you're going out trying to make sure everyone is displeased with you. Nice cognitive dissonance.

Really? 200 years? 200 years since what though? Since people quit seeing religion as the all powerful tool to answer everything? You'd be wrong there. That shit went out the window with the renaissance. That puts you at about 500 years ago. Or are you talking about every religion being about peace only stopped 200 years ago? Cause I think that shit stopped when the Zoroastrians decided that there was only one god roughly 7000 years ago.


If you all agree that there is only one god and you yourself said that there's only one true christian way and further said that there's only one way to follow the bible... What is there need of interpretation? Interpretation means taking something and making it fit for an audience... *GASP* You don't mean that you're making shit up are you?!

Ramble like a pirate day.

What delightful way to end it. A nice word from the mangod about how to live and what he's here to do. A preach to the choir. Let me add one!
“Do not suppose I have come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law...” Matthew 5:39

ShoeUnited,
Admittedly my HTML skills aren't as good as yours so forgive me for not breaking down your response.

None the less, Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Obviously you have history with Christianity and the teachings of the church (The catholic church).... Just to be clear, so I wont take into account your angst when writing this reply.

So, When you say Directed.
Tell me, who is it directed at?

Muslims? Athiests? humanitarians? Green people who live in little igloos on the planet Venus??
My post was a random babble of my beliefs. If you don't like such beliefs and don't agree with them then that's fine. If you found malice and insult in them then I apoligize, My intent was not to insult you... However, as mentioned.. Some people are going to be displeased by what the catholic church teaches.

God is the unique and most decisive segmentation between each religion. Of course within each different type of religion there is further division.
To which I actively pray for unity. (sorry more meaningless fluff)



The New testament is the cornerstone of the Christian faith, Yes the old testament is relevant, however, one could disregard the old testament and still be able to live a christian life in accordance with scripture.



I disagree, but on the same token I understand where you are coming.
Actually, before I go on... You understand what humanism is yeh?
Irrespective of religion, each and every one of us should understand human value. It's with that understanding that violence can be avoided. look to the little examples instead of the big ones. Think about situations that have affected your life specifically. Then look at those examples (I pray you have none) and tell me if what stemmed the fear that led to the violence could have been avoided with empathy and remorse. The kindness of the heart.

Now, this is where it gets fun :)
Actually scrap that, that sounded better in my head. This isnt fun at all, fun is switching over to the xbox just right of me and playing fifa.. but anyway..



When I wrote that I actually stopped for a second and thought about adding Christianity to following from fear.
Truthfully speaking I know many parisheners and Christians that adhere to the teachings of the catholic church out of fear of punishment (i.e. going to hell)
Regardless, Mohammed led a violent lifestyle. You cannot dispute this. It is fact.

And as mentioned earlier, Violence stems from fear.
Admittedly Mohammed was a patient man, as you can gather from the Koran. However, he was also a man that lead raids and gang wars. He fought with his sword which has become symbolic of the Muslim religion.

Do you being to see where I am coming from?
The prophet of Islam, a man of peace and serenity yet drawn to violent conflict. Compared to Jesus of Nazareth, A man who willingly gave his life for us.
Me and you (You may find that displeasing, but irrespective of what you say it is truth)
I am sorry that you believe otherwise...



Is the glass half full or half empty?
I ask this because it seems you missed the part where I clearly mentioned the quintessential foundations of any religion are live life with love, free of greed, and with humbleness in our hearts.

This is no different to Mohammed, what he taught through words far outshines what he taught through action.
“No person hath drunk a better draught than that of anger which he hath swallowed for God's sake” - Mohammed.



Be careful, I never mentioned displeasing all.
"Others" is not a universal summary
Although you seem displeased with what I have said? So i question your response .......

Look, in all honesty I could continue to read through and comment on what you have said in opposition to what I have written but where will it get you.

Irrespective of what I say, you came to a conclusion that there is no God.
A strong conclusion at that, so I wont waste any more of your time or mine.

What I will say though, is that irrespective of your upbringing we all have humanistic values and understandings.
we can chose to shun others, or accept them with open arms.

I hope that what I have said doesn't give you the impression that I disregard or think lowly of Muslims. That is certainly not the case... I think lowly of the fanatics that falsely interpreted the teachings of the Koran and even those within my own religion that take the word of God out of context...

I.e. Matthew 5:39.

Yet I understand them as I understand you.
Our worlds are very different and the actions of today are based on the experiences of yesterday.

So, for the other points.
Abortion specifically, Id love to continue talking about that.
Feel free to message me and we can take it from there.

know that you are in my prayers (you probably consider that to mean fu** all, but at least have the common decency to understand that it means something to me)

Anyway God Bless

(also, Matthew 5:39)

"But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned."

Kinda Ironic don't you think?

shit sorry about the bold.
told ya.... HTML fail!

Gosh damn....it's gettin hot in here! I mean, sheesh, I thought we were discussing the video, and how wrong and rude it is to just completely disrespect a person like that, let alone their religion. Nomatter what religion you are, if you can't share your views with others peacefully and respectfully, then you're just imposing your religion on to someone else (like that retarded group in the video). I mean, we can ALL AGREE on that, right?

Nitpicking.



You can. If the minority has sufficient power to subdue the majority. The Helots of Lacedaimonia would come to my mind, though that it a very specific example. It depends on how the power structure is set up and circumstances. .



You do not. The Shengen borders function differently.

Actually, no it's not. That is poetic summary of Lewis's epistemology. His point was that naturalism doesn't have a sufficient explanation for knowledge of rational principles.

wtf is goin on in here

No need for genuflection. No need for self-flagellation. I am a man, as is anyone else.

It would have been scanned just like the rest if it wasn't for what you said. Something that is very mean that you said. Without provocation, without cause.

I was raised Catholic. I wanted to become a priest. I have no angst where religion lies. I have anger directed at people who misuse their beliefs to attack others. To hate the whole of religion would be ludicrous. It makes no sense to hate a group. Ah, but individuals. They can make themselves quite the ass ache.


No, you said that your post would be random. There was structure. You stated so much as to what the problems are and what the solutions are to said problems. That is no longer random. It is a directed approach. Whom doesn't matter, it was a comment on the lack of realization that you were posting with purpose and an attempt at flow.


They weren't random, they had a defined structure. As for me not liking them; I couldn't care less. I only care when beliefs go out of their way to cause harm to others. Then your beliefs have overstepped their boundaries. What you believe makes no difference to anyone so long as you don't start using them to tell others how to live.


As I tried to use by example in the previous I will spell it out for you now: Intent is all well and good. I'm sure you didn't intend to insult or be malicious to me. You had no idea I would reply to what you wrote let alone read it. Unfortunately, your intent means fuck all when the fact of the matter is you were both insulting and malicious. It's all well and good not to intend to hit anyone when driving a car. But it means shit if you run someone's kid over. It has nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches. The problem was with what you did with those teachings.


Partially correct. As I said, what you believe doesn't factor into my day. Ever. It is what you do with your beliefs that can/does affect me. God is hardly unique. You need to hit the books on world religions throughout history. Zoroastrians beat Jews to the singular god creation by a couple thousand years.




Actually, no, one couldn't. The more conservative the christian base, the more it needs the Old Testament to structure its faith. If Peter is your rock, the Old Testament is your mortar. It holds christianity together. Talk to your priest and ask him about the importance of the Old Testament.



If you actually understood where I came from you wouldn't be having this argument from your side of the fence. I can know where you're coming from because I used to be not only just like you but worse than you. More fervent. I know what humanism is. It's a secular philosophy created by people to help people know how to treat other people. Or, more simply, a guideline for morality that can change depending on need.


So by the example you have given, which is mostly for me to reflect on situations that involved violence (clearly you have no idea where I came from) you pin your hopes that I can see where empathy would have overridden violence. Clearly, you cannot imagine where I came from let alone understand. Nuns for teachers aside, you haven't the faintest idea. Here is an example: Every one of my classmates hated me. This is not an exaggeration. Why? Because I was smaller, and I always had the answers in class, and we were poor, and I always volunteered to help the father when he came down from the church up the hill (Catholic School). And they beat me up frequently. They spat and blew snot onto my hair and face. They would kick me and pants me when given opportunity. I was a brown kid in the middle of White City. A poor kid in the middle of Rich Ville. I was the Christian before the Lions. They would throw rocks, they would name call, they would trip me. They'd push me into the aisle when we were kneeling during weekly mass. They'd put things in my milk carton to make me gag. I tried turning the other cheek for years. They'd punch harder. I tried asking nicely, they'd spit in my mouth. I'd tell my parents, simply trials by god. I'd tell the teacher, they'd make things worse. I prayed for them. I begged crying, 8 years old, to just give me one day without hurting me. No chance.

I tried name calling back, I'd get in trouble. Then one day when in the bathroom surrounded by 5 other guys they went to start beating on me while I was taking a piss. Again. I couldn't take it anymore. I pulled my pants up and I beat the shit out of them. They had to call an ambulance. I had to go to counseling. But you know what? They may have kept name calling, but they quit beating the fuck out of me on a daily basis for fear I'd "go crazy" again.

I don't have to make things up, life had plenty of examples. And yes, there are times where violence is the only and last resort. All you've accomplished here is shown me yet again that morality is fluid and no place has the rules to absolute morality. Especially not a church.

Well, I was having fun until you decided to ask me to drag up 20 year old bullshit I'd rather leave dead.



Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're demonizing people based on the past of a religion but then ask not to be treated the same. That's disingenuous. You're demonizing them based on some splinter groups that the core consider freaks. But you ask to not have the same apply. You are a hypocrite.

Since you ignored that I listed some facts where that statement is wrong. What are you afraid of? Why are you speaking out against an entire religious movement?

I thought you just said he lived a violent life style that I could not dispute "It is a fact." Way to contradict yourself. Unless you were just setting some ground rules that only I cannot contradict you on this topic. Which is bullshit.



And Jesus came here to seperate father from son, etc. Are you just jealous that Mohammed actually got shit done instead of waiting four or five hundred years for their religion to fester in an empire and get used as a means to control a populace?

Oh, I know where you are coming from. I knew that before in the previous post of yours. You're not doing much here to counter what you've already established.

Ignoring for a minute where you are pleased at killing your god... Do you understand what the sacrifice actually signifies? Why it was done? Have you any idea what it meant? Do you know what the old commandments Jesus was fulfilling? I'll give you a hint: Blood sacrifice. Long story short -why start now?- God created a man partly filled with his soul so that man could kill it to end burnt animal sacrifices that he had made mandatory to please himself. Don't believe me? Ask your priest.


Don't be, I'm not sorry you believe what you believe. And I'm not sorry that you don't believe in Asatru. Don't be sorry for the things I don't believe, you will run out of life before you run out of things to apologize for. Also, I don't find it displeasing. That's your beliefs. They don't affect me. I don't care.



Depends if it's shit or water. Few things are concrete. Life is fluid.

Clearly, you missed the part where you took all of Islam and implied it was evil due to terrorism and fear. Clearly, you missed the part where Satanism is structured around self-interest. Clearly, there are others. Thetans anyone? Never looked deep into paganism. Animism. Ancestor worship. Hindu. The list could go on.

Sounds like he got pissed when God told him to. Good thing he didn't kill a bunch of Egyptians and Canaanites. Or throw up the tables for sacraficial animals in a synagogue during passover.

Then define those others. Spell it out. Don't pussyfoot around with things so that you can move the goalposts as you see fit. State plainly with pride in your heart that you mean people that other people on this site would get pretty pissed at you over. Go ahead say it. You don't mean EVERYONE! That's absurd! You mean something closer to: Gays, Abortionists, Feminists, Muslims, Aborigines, Liberals, Protestants, Atheists, Transvestites, Africans, and the hairy mole on the back of my ass.
I know. You'll try to weasel out of what you meant by others now. After all, you went out of your way to capitalize and put quotations around it. I'll let you ignore this bit like you will want to anyway to make you think you're saving face. It wasn't your intent to hurt any of those heathen groups.

Besides exposing you for what you are? It's always good exercise. Hell, maybe you'll think about what you have to say next time. Though I wouldn't bank on it.


Irrespective? How about irrelevant? How about you quit assuming atheism is always strong atheism? Atheism simply states that there is no proof of a God. After that, everything is negotiable. Maybe I believe there is no god. Maybe I believe there is no proof of a god. Maybe I believe there is no reason to think about whether or not there are god or gods. Maybe I just reject the entire point of faith for lack of evidence and don't have need or time to believe in anything. All of those are atheist. Figure out which one I am.

An assumption is what that is. But I'm being facetious.

Excellent, I didn't even have to go out of my way. You just said that god doesn't dictate morality!

Again missing the myriad of grays in the human experience.

Then you should have said as such. You spent a lot of time spinning your wheels making no counter argument and then give the half-assed apology towards the end of the rant. Very bad form.
Non sequitur.


I've nothing to hide. If you're so interested, start a topic.

Actually, I find that both hypocritical and a slap in the face. To what purpose am I in your prayers? I'm fucking saved. Revelation 3:16. I'm fine. If your god existed and gave out free will I am merely exercising what I was given. How dare HE send me to hell for using HIS gift. If there is no free will, then no praying will do anything for me anyway. How do you know that maybe I'm the one getting saved because I'm using the logic, reasoning, and free will that he gave me? How do you know that you're not damned for believe blindly? No, don't pray for me. That's an insult. I don't promise not to kill babies to get you to change your mind. Not that prayer does anything in reality.

Sure, same to you. Whatever floats your boat, Mister. Note: This phrase doesn't bother me. It's all about context.


Irony.

-------------------------------------------------------
Temp: I'm well aware of the quote. I know it is meant to be poetic. He is saying that he knows there is God because he sees everything on earth from animals to water and that confirms his belief. The poetry makes it fluff. The intent makes it meaningless. Take the same idea, apply it to anything else it still works. "I know there is a unicorn because everywhere I look I see things unicorns could have touched." "I know there is magical elves in my car that cannot be seen by anyone, because when I drive my car it moves." When you can substitute God out of a sentence with something else and it still works? It is meaningless. It makes you feel good, it's fluff, it has no substance, it is meaningless. Hence: Meaningless fluff. Because everything else exists therefore God exists. That's some pretty bad logical fallacy right there.

Let me counter all of this:

"Babylon 5: Meditations on the Abyss (#5.14)" (1998)
G'Kar: If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search; it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it! Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing. What we perceive as God, is the byproduct of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished, not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do! Or we turn to look at our shadow, and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose; which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty - and in all its flaws. And in so doing better understand the world around us.
I didn't understand it as a child. It just stuck with me. Then one day I was re-watching the episode and the beauty in the simplicity of the statement struck me. And it made sense. It made everything make sense.

Just chiming in to say that Islam isn't the only religion that has waged war against people or used other forms of coercive tactics(fear) to get their way in the past and present, several of the world's most prominent religions didn't get to the top spots peacefully, many got there through genocide, war, imperialism, slavery, and every type of unjust act imaginable, in this day and age, there's no excuse for the delusion that Islam is the only belief system doing messed up things, not to mention, Islam is not one entity it is composed of billions of people, just like Christianity, we can either be mature and logical and treat people as individuals or we can be simple minded and judge everyone as if they were the same person.

I'd also like to note that their are terrorists that are Jewish, Hindu, Christian, Atheist etc. they're out there, most people just don't hear about them.

Read up on the Lord's resistance Army as an example, you'll see that they use the same tactics as the Taliban, only difference is they subscribed to a different religion, but the cruelty and injustice they wage is the same.
They can be found via a quick google search or through Human Rights Watch.

I respect everyone and their beliefs but imposing your views on someone is wrong and promoting hate is wrong too

Lord I pray for those who curse my name
Let me love them not in vain
Lord I pray for those who show no control
Let me love them and their soul
Lord I pray for those who are still blind
Let me love and free their mind
Lord I pray for those who try to speak
Let them see they are unique
Lord I pray for those who live in the past
Help them turn the hour glass
Lord I pray for those that require demand
Help me give them a helping hand
Lord I pray for all that is unjust
Let the world learn to grow and trust
Lord l pray that in weakness you never depart
For I know you will answer my prayer, as it comes from the heart
- Charbel Najem

In all my time on this planet never have I been alone. At times it might seem that way, but a greater good can always be found from suffering and pain. Maybe not immediately, but in time yes.

....................

(you said) (not bothering with HTML, its 12.10AM and I need to be awake at 6)

You don't mean EVERYONE! That's absurd! You mean something closer to: Gays, Abortionists, Feminists, Muslims, Aborigines, Liberals, Protestants, Atheists, Transvestites, Africans, and the hairy mole on the back of my ass.
I know. You'll try to weasel out of what you meant by others now. After all, you went out of your way to capitalize and put quotations around it. I'll let you ignore this bit like you will want to anyway to make you think you're saving face. It wasn't your intent to hurt any of those heathen groups.

So to that, I say you are correct
As I told you in the IM I just sent you, you are obviously more knowledgeable and theologically intelligent then I am...

so yes, I will displease gays through upholding christian values, yes I will displease abortionists through upholding my christian values. yes I will displease "others" that live there life ignorant of the catholic church's teachings.

tell me, isn't that to be expected?

but never, not once will i go out of my way to do so with malice. I work with and hire gay people (currently have three reporting to me), I have coffee with a lesbian every friday (my manager) , my neighbors are aboriginals and we actively invite them over for coffee, I work for the largest employer of homosexuals where religion in the workplace has no substance.... tell me, if in my heart of hearts i had the destructive nature that you seem to think I have, would I admit to all of the above?

or wait, let me guess... im making this up to save face for an internet community that gives less then 1 fuck about my life?

(no, I'm not deflating myself or bowing my head to you..) I'm merely trying to show you that humility and integrity are values that I hold dear to my heart and my faith.
I love myself enough to know that through my weakness I gain strength.

Ghandi - Be the change you want to see in this world..

your points are all more then debatable. its your intent I'm not sure about..

Puritanical views have been eroded because our societies have evolved and will continue to do so, morality is constantly changing and evolving, it's subjective and always has been in almost every facet, people just pretend that there's only one correct set of moral codes to live by and hence that's where conflict comes into play because honestly, even people in the same religion or political ideology believe and support different things.

If there are multiple moralities, and no morality is more correct than the other (I know you didn't say that, but it seems to be what you're implying), then that technically means everything is permissible. Yet if there is at least one moral deliberate act that is wrong in all possible scenarios (torturing babies for fun), then you're tied to some objective morality. Then again, I don't want to put words in your mouth. Could you elaborate on what you mean by evolve? If we're evolving, then that implies a goal: what are we evolving towards, and what happens when we get there? Can we ever get there?

All evolve means is to change, evolution doesn't have to be deliberate, it's like when a child goes from baby to toddler, to child, to teen, to adult, they baby didn't say, "hey I want to change", it just happens.


My point about multiple moralities has nothing to do with everything being permissible, that's completely outside of what I meant, I'm going to nip that in the bud right now, clearly I'm not talking about rape, murder, and torture being included in that.

I'll give you an example, I have a Catholic friend who doesn't condemn people for having sex before marriage or gay marriage and I know a Catholic person who extremely opposed both, that is all that is meant.

You make it sound far more sinister, I clearly am not talking about everything be permissible and fine, my point that was made is that, for example, "there are some people believe giving giving blood is immoral, while others see it is a chance to save a life, or someone might see having sex as bad, while another might say it's how they show they love someone, there's a clear distinction between murdering, torturing, and raping someone or other violent crimes that hurt someone and having sex before marriage, or giving blood, or getting drunk etc, one category of things is hurting other people deliberately and with cruelty, while the other does not and for the most part has no effect on other people.


I don't mean to sound petulant, but perhaps that's how my rhetoric is showing up as, sorry if I give that impression Temp.

Not at all. This is all in good fun.


I think it all comes down to separating means from ends. Both of your catholic friends are opposed to spiritual harm. The difference is that one of them believes premarital sex leads to a spiritual harm, and the other friend doesn't. They agree on the end, but they disagree on the means.

I was just confused on what you meant by a plurality of correct moral codes. I have friends who are totally on the nihilistic side and don't believe in any universal evils at all, torture included. I just wanted to make sure where you were coming from. I too believe you can have multiple moral codes, but under the specific condition that the codes share the same moral ends (truth, happiness, justice).

Honestly, I don't believe most societies (modern and historical) disagree heavily on moral ends. It's the understanding of reality that causes all the problems. For example, abortion isn't really a moral debate so much as a metaphysical debate. Pro-lifers and Pro-choicers disagree on what constitutes a baby. But no side is FOR killing babies (Maddox aside).

I'll keep it simple. Very simple. Do Unto Others As They Have Done Unto You. Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged.

You came in here. Declared that Islam is based on fear. You attacked an entire religion for no reason. Islam didn't steal your food. Islam didn't copy your test scores. Islam is quite innocent in your attack.

And then you have the audacity to go and declare that I'm affirming your faith while simultaneously stating -quite proudly- that you're not going to respond to the statements and questions that are too hard for you to answer?

I'm not affirming your faith. You are. Don't dress me up as a conduit. Is your faith so shaky that you need to build all these straw men to burn down? Do you not even have the faith of a mustard seed that you have to go out and attack others without reason?

Truly, if your god was so great, and so apparent, and so knowledgeable he wouldn't need your help. If your god existed with all the little rules you put into place for him, wouldn't you going about making an ass of yourself never be needed? He knows everything, he can do anything. So what are you doing fucking with his divine plan? Maybe I'm supposed to be the atheist. Maybe that baby isn't supposed to be born. Who the fuck are you to tell God the way shit's supposed to go down?

Unless of course, your god isn't real. Maybe you're just another human fighting against the dark. Maybe you accept all these rules because you were told what was right. Maybe you need to apologize for attacking a religion.

And if you are using an atheist to learn about your faith, then apparently you have no idea what it is to have faith and what your religion is talking about. Maybe you're just an atheist in denial.

Ignorance is bliss my friend.
You try in every way possible to insult and belittle me for the very same mannerisms you so publicly display.

To call yourself just an atheist is disrespectful to both yourself and those who taught you what you know.
I don’t see you as an atheist I can learn from, rather a person who I already said was theologically sound enough for me to learn a few things.

Does it anger you that since your last post I went away and did some research strengthening my faith and views on Islam?
Does it anger you that I reflected on violence and how I bring it into my life to solve conflict?

So, my dear Atheist friend.

Tell me, Do the beatitudes mean anything to you?
Or again in my humanity am I believing in rules established by the church to control a mass of people because the world is run through religion and its all a massive conspiracy theory (especially nowadays given how dominant Religion is in politics, right)?

Also, you seem so very fond of Islam for an atheist... oh wait, my bad.. I forgot that as an atheist you have a bone to pick with Christians and Christians alone.
So in your defense of Islam and your attack on Christianity I ask you this?
Do you know the Story behind Ramadan?
oh another question ... Did the arch angel Gabrielle really appear to Mohammed?
(Before you answer that question with a question of your own, let me remind you that jesus the Son of God performed many miracles) ... Proof of divinr intervention.
... (just to shut out The angel appearing to both Mary and Joseph.)

Some light reading for you

http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Azmy/mhd_miracles.htm

Now.
you made a choice a while back in your life to walk away from the faith.
yet to me it still seems that you believe in this "faux God" (sorry, I'm the one putting words in your mouth now)

An eye for an eye makes the world blind.
Either man up and admit that by criticizing the amount of Faith I have you are comparing it to the amount of faith you once/still have or step back and leave the works of defending the vision of God to those that believe in him...

I tried sending you a message, you didn’t respond.
I tried taking the high ground and debating peacefully, you ignored.
You want to debate this and turn it into a finger pointing exercise then bring it on...

It's one thing for you to belittle me, its for you to belittle the God that created you.
I find no pleasure in trying to bully you or embarrass you, all I seem to find from you now and a bunch of defense mechanisms kicking into play

Also, FYI.. Atheists belive in nothing...
Which is a belief of its own.
Therefore you sir are a paradox.

As always, I’ll pray for you.

>>Ignorance is bliss my friend.

Is Theistic Religion A Consolation?
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Theistic Religion can be a consolation in some scenarios, but not all. It has tended to be largely negative throughout history with many deaths and much sadness caused. Whilst people may find comfort in their beliefs, it should be noted that this comfort is from delusion. They are believing in superstition and the supernatural for purely emotional reasons, without the backing of empirical evidence.

It may be argued from a Utilitarian standpoint that as long as there is a benefit on some level, then the belief is justified. To keep true to this Utilitarian assessment though, the negatives of a belief should be assessed as well. It can easily be argued that any acceptance of concepts which contradict empirical information weaken those holding the belief. Consider that "ignorance is bliss", for example the ignorance of the soon-to-be victim of a serial killer, might better be described as "ignorance is vulnerability". Certainly the victim's belief in god would not have been more valuable then the knowledge of who was sneaking up behind them.

When considering a religions benefit (theistic or otherwise), one should also consider its effect on others, and has been. For example; Christianity has obvious consolatory benefits for someone, but the negatives have included oppression, depression, racism, sexism and homophobia.

>>You try in every way possible to insult and belittle me for the very same mannerisms you so publicly display.

Tu quoque
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Tu quoque is basically a fancy way of saying, "No, you shut up!"

A latin phrase meaning "Thou, also", this argument asserts or implies that a certain position is false or should be disregarded because its proponent fails to act consistently in accordance with that position. It is an attempt to show that a criticism applies equally to the person making it, and, as such, can be considered an ad hominem argument, since it focuses on the opposite party itself, rather than their position.

Examples of this kind of argument can be seem in the "Atheism is based on faith" and "Atheism is a religion" apologist attacks on atheism.


See also:

Hypocrisy
Shut up, that's why

>>To call yourself just an atheist is disrespectful to both yourself and those who taught you what you know.

Appeal to emotion
From Iron Chariots Wiki

An appeal to emotion is an argument tactic that is very similar to an appeal to popularity which attempts to circumvent rational thought in the hopes of “supporting” a conclusion with an emotional response in the place of real evidence. Many times, this fallacy is committed in concert with other fallacies as well. i.e. Ad Hominem


>>I don’t see you as an atheist I can learn from, rather a person who I already said was theologically sound enough for me to learn a few things.

Petitio principii
From Iron Chariots Wiki
(Redirected from Begging the question)

Begging the question, which goes by the technical name petitio principii, is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument implicitly assumes its conclusion in a premise.

>>Does it anger you that since your last post I went away and did some research strengthening my faith and views on Islam?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Literally, "after this, therefore because of this".

This logical fallacy represents a mistaken assertion of causality. Two events, which may have no significant causal connection, are erroneously considered to represent a cause and its effect. Correlation does not equal causation.

>>Does it anger you that I reflected on violence and how I bring it into my life to solve conflict?

Non sequitur
From Iron Chariots Wiki
A non sequitur (literally, "doesn't follow") is a logical fallacy in which the premises do not support the conclusion in any way. Thus, the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises.

>>So, my dear Atheist friend.
>>Tell me, Do the beatitudes mean anything to you?

Cherry picking
From Iron Chariots Wiki

Picking a cherry.
Cherry picking, or "counting the hits and forgetting the misses," refers to the practice of choosing quotes and research which supports ones views while ignoring credible quotes and research, in the same branch of study, which undermines or contradicts ones views.

>>Or again in my humanity am I believing in rules established by the church to control a mass of people because the world is run through religion (especially nowadays)?

Fallacy: Hasty Generalization

Also Known as: Fallacy of Insufficient Statistics, Fallacy of Insufficient Sample, Leaping to A Conclusion, Hasty Induction.

Description of Hasty Generalization

This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is not large enough. It has the following form:

Sample S, which is too small, is taken from population P.
Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S.
The person committing the fallacy is misusing the following type of reasoning, which is known variously as Inductive Generalization, Generalization, and Statistical Generalization:

X% of all observed A's are B''s.
Therefore X% of all A's are Bs.
The fallacy is committed when not enough A's are observed to warrant the conclusion. If enough A's are observed then the reasoning is not fallacious.

>>Also, you seem so very fond of Islam for an atheist... oh wait, my bad.. I forgot that as an atheist you have a bone to pick with Christians and Christians alone.

Why are you trying to tear down other people's faith?
From Iron Chariots Wiki
When will you hear it?

This response will usually come late in a discussion, or as an interpolation in an existing discussion between atheists. It's less of a counter-apologetic and more of an attempt to derail the conversation to the motives an atheist may have for arguing against gods and religion. This response is a good sign that your interlocutor thinks your words could be damning to their faith, or the faith of others.

A response

That need not be the goal of the atheist. Sometimes, explaining how we can live full, productive, happy lives without faith is enough to shake the faith of some. We can't really do anything about that, except stay silent, and that's certainly the option some would like us to take. To do so would present an egregious double standard. Christians do not shy away from explaining their faith for fear to damage the faith of a Jain, in fact they are encouraged to.

The salient point here is that most likely an atheist does not consider religious faith a benefit. In fact, it is the cornerstone of dogmatism, which is the source of most of the problems stemming from religion. Whether it is the immediate goal or not, people losing their faith in superstition is seen as a Good Thing.

A possible rebuttal

The theist might interject that people find great comfort in their faith. That may be true, however it is not always relevant. A drunk will find comfort in a bottle of whiskey and a drug addict in a syringe full of heroin, yet there are good reasons to help both these people to overcome these addictions. In fact, the original question can be easily paralleled to "Why are you such a buzzkill?" uttered by a drunk from whom you take the bottle away, and for much the same reasons. You could say that if faith can be broken through rational argument and evidence, then it was likely misplaced to begin with.

>>So in your defense or Islam and your attack on Christianity I ask you this?
>>Do you know the Story behind Ramadan? and.... heres the big one... Did Gabrielle really appear to Mohammed? (before you answer that question with a question let me remind you that jesus the Son of God performed many miracles)... (just to shut out The angel appearing to both Mary and Joseph.

Proof by example
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Proof by example is a logical fallacy whereby an example is claimed as evidence for a universal claim. The structure looks like this:

1. I know that x has property P.
2. x belongs to group G.
C. Therefore, all other elements of group G have property P.

>>Some light reading for you http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Azmy/mhd_miracles.htm

NULL

>> Now. you made a choice a while back in your life to walk away from the faith. yet to me it still seems that you believe in this "faux God" (sorry, I'm the one putting words in your mouth now)

Appeal to motive
From Iron Chariots Wiki
An Appeal to motive is a form of logical fallacy that's related to ad hominem attacks. This particular fallacy is when an argument one is making is questioned due to his or her supposed motives.

The problem with this sort of fallacy is that addressing one's motives, instead of the argument put forth, is a type of red herring. Additionally, unless the person appealing to motive is telepathic, how could the person know one's secret motives, and whether they are part of the decision making process?

>>An eye for an eye makes the world blind. Either man up and admit that by criticizing the amount of Faith I have you are comparing it to the amount of faith you once/still have or step back and leave the works of defending the vision of God to those that believe in him...

Argumentum ad baculum
From Iron Chariots Wiki

Argumentum ad baculum or argument from force (a.k.a. appeal to force, scare tactics, or appeal to fear) is the fallacy committed when one appeals to force or the threat of force, causing fear which thus brings about the acceptance of a claim.


>>I tried sending you a message, you didn’t respond.
>>I tried taking the high ground and debating peacefully, you ignored.
>>You want to debate this and turn it into a finger pointing exercise then bring it on...
I did respond. Included the message in the previous post. Thanks for pointing out you don't actually read what I write. You never took the high ground. You started from the low ground. It was never a debate. You made points that were hate filled, I laughed at you. But since you think it's a debate:

Special pleading
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Special pleading is a claim that standards of evidence should be modified or reversed for a particular claim or type of claim.

Fallacy of composition
From Iron Chariots Wiki
The Fallacy of composition is the fallacy of concluding that something that is true of the parts is also true of the whole, or that something that is true of the whole is also true of the parts.

Ad hominem abusive
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Ad hominem abusive or abusive ad hominem attacks are a subset of ad hominem attacks. An ad hominem attacks the person making the argument or the source of the argument rather than the argument itself. Abusive ad hominem attacks are insults directed at the source of an argument or counter-argument.

>>>It's one thing for you to belittle me, its for you to belittle the God that created you.

Sensus divinitatis
From Iron Chariots Wiki
Sensus divinitatis or Sense of Divinity was posited by John Calvin as the inherent awareness of God which is implanted in every human being.
It is sometimes used to "prove" that atheists don't exist. Anyone who claims to be an atheist is in denial of the God which they "know" to exist; therefore, they are merely angry at or rebelling against God.

Contradicted by scripture
Even the Bible contradicts the simplest view, that everyone knows about God deep down. Psalms 14:1 says, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." It seems hard to argue that anyone could say "in his heart" that there is no God while not believing that there is no God. Therefore, the Bible acknowledges that at least some atheists exist (and they are "fools" by Biblical definition).

See also:
No true Scotsman fallacy


>>I find no pleasure in trying to bully you or embarrass you, all I seem to find from you now and a bunch of defense mechanisms kicking into play

Psychological manipulation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics. By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at the other's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive.

>>Also, FYI.. Atheists belive in nothing... Which is a belief of its own. Therefore you sir are a paradox.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Atheism_is_based_on_faith

>>As always, I’ll pray for you.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Argument_from_desire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)


You still demonize an entire religion without cause. If anyone had done the same about christianity, I would have been equally unkind. No religion gets special treatment from me. You're just making an example of yourself.

*hugs Shoe*

I love seeing fallacious argument ripped to shreds.