Sex and profanity: worse than violence?
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Sex and profanity: worse than violence?
American censors long seem to have considered these two worse than violence. Many Americans seem to believe this too (and for the record, all cultures are plagued with idiots, so I'm not singling out Americans). Remember the Janet Jackson Superbowl controversy?
Recently, there was this reply in the MKX board topic about trash talking that seemed to imply profanities had no place in MK. There were fortunately a few posters who realized how ridiculous that sounded, but that sadly doesn't change the fact it's a point of view that is a little too disturbingly widespread.
You've got shows like CSI and Hawaii Five-0 that can be really dark and gritty, but worry not, upstanding moral citizens: it's only blood. At worst, there might be some mutilations, or some disfigurement. No profanities, and more importantly, no exposed breasts and genitalia, though torn breasts are okay if the nipples are missing. Your children can watch in the utmost safety.
I've just never found any arguments that could validate such a POV. All I've found was someone implying that exposing children to porn might turn them into rapists. But I guess them turning into axe murderers would be a much more preferable outcome.
For the record, I don't condone most porn. It is often sexist and exploitive of women. But if it's okay to show someone getting skinned alive to children, then porn and swearing should be no big deal. And healthy depictions of sex even less so.
Am I making this up, or is violence really considered preferable to sex and profanity by a sadly too large amount of people?
Recently, there was this reply in the MKX board topic about trash talking that seemed to imply profanities had no place in MK. There were fortunately a few posters who realized how ridiculous that sounded, but that sadly doesn't change the fact it's a point of view that is a little too disturbingly widespread.
You've got shows like CSI and Hawaii Five-0 that can be really dark and gritty, but worry not, upstanding moral citizens: it's only blood. At worst, there might be some mutilations, or some disfigurement. No profanities, and more importantly, no exposed breasts and genitalia, though torn breasts are okay if the nipples are missing. Your children can watch in the utmost safety.
I've just never found any arguments that could validate such a POV. All I've found was someone implying that exposing children to porn might turn them into rapists. But I guess them turning into axe murderers would be a much more preferable outcome.
For the record, I don't condone most porn. It is often sexist and exploitive of women. But if it's okay to show someone getting skinned alive to children, then porn and swearing should be no big deal. And healthy depictions of sex even less so.
Am I making this up, or is violence really considered preferable to sex and profanity by a sadly too large amount of people?
It depends on the context and how strong it is.
Profanity I am not bothered since I think and can on occasion say very bad things but those things I would not want children to say.
Sex is not suitable to be shown to children in any way in my opinion. They do not understand it. People engaging in sexual intercourse should not be shown to children. I do not mind mild nudity.
Violence is too broad a context. I think extreme graphic violence is too much for children. I would not want a child to see humans being mutilated. It can scare them. Horror elements can also be very scary for children since they have creative minds.
Personally I do not care about ratings boards since I find out beforehand what the material is about and if it is suitable.
Profanity I am not bothered since I think and can on occasion say very bad things but those things I would not want children to say.
Sex is not suitable to be shown to children in any way in my opinion. They do not understand it. People engaging in sexual intercourse should not be shown to children. I do not mind mild nudity.
Violence is too broad a context. I think extreme graphic violence is too much for children. I would not want a child to see humans being mutilated. It can scare them. Horror elements can also be very scary for children since they have creative minds.
Personally I do not care about ratings boards since I find out beforehand what the material is about and if it is suitable.
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Taken from the trash-talking in MK thread. It shows my point.
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
I don't get some people's mindset sometimes...
In a game full of violence, gore, murder, spines being ripped out, heads being torn off, hearts being torn out of the chest and whole bodies being completely massacred... you can't say swears? Because that's a big no-no?!
Excuse me one moment while I am laughing so hard my spleen hurts!
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The whole violence versus nudity in games is one thing... Some people think it is alright to have excessive violence in a game, as long there won't be any nipples showing. I find that hysterically laughable!
But now people don't want curse words either?! But STILL find the excessive violence an okay thing???
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Sorry, had to laugh again.
Anyways, you people need to re-evaluate your morality and ethical standpoints, because guess what! Nudity and swears are a HUNDRED times less harmful than any sort of violence!
- Sex is a good thing, the body is beautiful, nudity is natural!
- Yelling out curses and saying swears helps the anger you feel inside be expressed in a healthy way!
- Violence is NEVER A GOOD THING! Harming others to make yourself feel better is one of the worst things you can do, no matter where in the world you are.
However, oddly enough, we find entertainment in violence. In games, in movies, in sports... And as long it is contained within these media, we can get relief of our cravings for violence.
So violence in a videogame such as Mortal Kombat is fair game... but if you sincerely think that nudity and swears aren't... then there's something wrong with you.
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Sorry for this little rant of mine.
My point is, put in as many swears as you like. Put in as many fucks, shits, asses and cunts in there as you like. It is alot more harmless than what's already in the game.
Just to be clear though, to those who are readying their counter-arguements; no, I never suggested to turn Mortal Kombat into a porn game where they should fuck one another up against the screen. There's a whole other genre for that. But the nudity already in the game is harmless.
Scantly clad women and muscular men showing their chests are titillating and are there to make the game aesthetically pleasing and to attract people into buy the game. However, this is a fighting game, not a fuck-simulator, and there are other places to get that kind of stimulation.
I don't get some people's mindset sometimes...
In a game full of violence, gore, murder, spines being ripped out, heads being torn off, hearts being torn out of the chest and whole bodies being completely massacred... you can't say swears? Because that's a big no-no?!
Excuse me one moment while I am laughing so hard my spleen hurts!
...
...
...
The whole violence versus nudity in games is one thing... Some people think it is alright to have excessive violence in a game, as long there won't be any nipples showing. I find that hysterically laughable!
But now people don't want curse words either?! But STILL find the excessive violence an okay thing???
...
...
...
Sorry, had to laugh again.
Anyways, you people need to re-evaluate your morality and ethical standpoints, because guess what! Nudity and swears are a HUNDRED times less harmful than any sort of violence!
- Sex is a good thing, the body is beautiful, nudity is natural!
- Yelling out curses and saying swears helps the anger you feel inside be expressed in a healthy way!
- Violence is NEVER A GOOD THING! Harming others to make yourself feel better is one of the worst things you can do, no matter where in the world you are.
However, oddly enough, we find entertainment in violence. In games, in movies, in sports... And as long it is contained within these media, we can get relief of our cravings for violence.
So violence in a videogame such as Mortal Kombat is fair game... but if you sincerely think that nudity and swears aren't... then there's something wrong with you.
...
Sorry for this little rant of mine.
My point is, put in as many swears as you like. Put in as many fucks, shits, asses and cunts in there as you like. It is alot more harmless than what's already in the game.
Just to be clear though, to those who are readying their counter-arguements; no, I never suggested to turn Mortal Kombat into a porn game where they should fuck one another up against the screen. There's a whole other genre for that. But the nudity already in the game is harmless.
Scantly clad women and muscular men showing their chests are titillating and are there to make the game aesthetically pleasing and to attract people into buy the game. However, this is a fighting game, not a fuck-simulator, and there are other places to get that kind of stimulation.
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DG1OA Wrote:
American censors long seem to have considered these two worse than violence.
American censors long seem to have considered these two worse than violence.
It's shame too, because a lot of other cultures and countries have no problem with it. I visiting relatives over in Italy about 6-7 years ago and watching tv over there, they aren't shy about showing nudity. Mid day during commercials and game shows. Had little 6 year relatives watching it too, nobody bats an eye at it.
America is anally conservative on some of the stupidest topics unfortunately.
Chrome Wrote:
Mostly because it has placed an overwhelming importance on christian values which are false values.
Mostly because it has placed an overwhelming importance on christian values which are false values.
I wanted to get into that. Long post ahead.
In one corner, you have some people arguing that the US is a prude's paradise. In the other, you have people who consider the US sex-crazed, and the porn capital of the world. Surely only one of these POVs is correct, right?
Wrong. The US being a puritanical shithole is also the exact same reason the US is so obsessed with sex. Because puritanism is a failed ideology. Sexual repression makes you want sex even more. And the more you repress your sexual urges, the more you'll not only become obsessed with sex, but the more perverted and depraved those sexual impulses might become.
One thing I've read that made some sense was that most porn is marketed to puritans. Porn is dirty, because they like to think of sex as dirty. Both because they like the "forbidden" aspect of it, and because of the puritan in them thinking sex is an awful thing, and wanting porn to reflect that. So the degrading treatment of women is their way of taking out their frustrations, over their inability to achieve sexual abstinence, and getting off while doing it.
In the eyes of puritans, good women hate sex. Male puritans are the kind to marry like-minded women, and who secretly cheat on them with sexually loose ones. Who act like these women are disgusting, damnable creatures, while they're saints, but who would be devastated if these same disgusting, damnable creatures ceased to exist. Rape is often be justified by these losers as them being unable to help themselves, of them being seduced, some crap like that.
So finally, what does this have to do with violence being more acceptable than sex? Well, violence in the bible sure is encouraged in order to deal with heathens, for one. And because sexual repression can make one violent, or make one dream of doing unspeakable things. Some people also romanticize violence, treating fighting and war as something honorable, divine even, and to them, adding sex and profanity into the mix just defiles the whole thing.
If anyone thinks I'm way off there, do feel free to explain why you think so.
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DG1OA Wrote:
Sexual repression makes you want sex even more. And the more you repress your sexual urges, the more you'll not only become obsessed with sex, but the more perverted and depraved those sexual impulses might become.
Sexual repression makes you want sex even more. And the more you repress your sexual urges, the more you'll not only become obsessed with sex, but the more perverted and depraved those sexual impulses might become.
Just like in Japan.


About Me
Thanks to MINION for taking my Siginity!
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While it is funny thing our attitudes toward these things and how we have a distorted sense or whats "Worse" than what and how we rank things, There are very few characters I'd imagine swearing in MK.
I'd imagine Kano swearing like a sailor maybe the other "Urban" characters Jax, Cage or Sonya to a much lesser extent, but not any of the Outworlders, Edenians or people like Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Sub etc etc. (I hope Scorpion can find a better insult than SUCKKKERSS!!!)
The nudity, while not offensive just seems unnecessary really, One thing I would hate would be for things like breasts to be completely exposed as Battle damage that would just seem a bit tasteless and rapey.
Keep in mind I'm not saying these things are "worse" than violence, I agree with most of what J-R said above, but I just think these things are unnecessary and probably just distracting. I'm talking specifically about MK here.
I'd imagine Kano swearing like a sailor maybe the other "Urban" characters Jax, Cage or Sonya to a much lesser extent, but not any of the Outworlders, Edenians or people like Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Sub etc etc. (I hope Scorpion can find a better insult than SUCKKKERSS!!!)
The nudity, while not offensive just seems unnecessary really, One thing I would hate would be for things like breasts to be completely exposed as Battle damage that would just seem a bit tasteless and rapey.
Keep in mind I'm not saying these things are "worse" than violence, I agree with most of what J-R said above, but I just think these things are unnecessary and probably just distracting. I'm talking specifically about MK here.
raidenthefridge Wrote:
While it is funny thing our attitudes toward these things and how we have a distorted sense or whats "Worse" than what and how we rank things, There are very few characters I'd imagine swearing in MK.
I'd imagine Kano swearing like a sailor maybe the other "Urban" characters Jax, Cage or Sonya to a much lesser extent, but not any of the Outworlders, Edenians or people like Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Sub etc etc. (I hope Scorpion can find a better insult than SUCKKKERSS!!!)
The nudity, while not offensive just seems unnecessary really, One thing I would hate would be for things like breasts to be completely exposed as Battle damage that would just seem a bit tasteless and rapey.
Keep in mind I'm not saying these things are "worse" than violence, I agree with most of what J-R said above, but I just think these things are unnecessary and probably just distracting. I'm talking specifically about MK here.
While it is funny thing our attitudes toward these things and how we have a distorted sense or whats "Worse" than what and how we rank things, There are very few characters I'd imagine swearing in MK.
I'd imagine Kano swearing like a sailor maybe the other "Urban" characters Jax, Cage or Sonya to a much lesser extent, but not any of the Outworlders, Edenians or people like Raiden, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Sub etc etc. (I hope Scorpion can find a better insult than SUCKKKERSS!!!)
The nudity, while not offensive just seems unnecessary really, One thing I would hate would be for things like breasts to be completely exposed as Battle damage that would just seem a bit tasteless and rapey.
Keep in mind I'm not saying these things are "worse" than violence, I agree with most of what J-R said above, but I just think these things are unnecessary and probably just distracting. I'm talking specifically about MK here.
Another long post ahead. I am passionate about this subject, I know.
Personally, I've never been that easily distracted by sex, humor, guest characters, three things that are frequently accused of being distracting (profanities can sometimes be an annoyance, though). To me, it's just not a problem really. Jill Valentine's design in Resident Evil 3 did not stop me from taking her character seriously. I won't lie and say I was indifferent to her design. I definitely did like it. But it didn't distract me from her personality and reactions (I loved it when she slapped Carlos) or the game's story. And as arrogant as that will sound, I do believe it's because I do not have sexual hangups, like puritans.
Nudity in MK, if it ever happened, wouldn't have to be a consequence of battle damage. You could merely undress characters in the character bio section where you could look at the characters' models. Yes, I know the classic response to that would be "go watch porn", again a case of people wanting all sexuality to be confined to one genre, and a very shitty one at that. The majority of porn sucks, so I certainly wouldn't want sexuality in the media to be limited to it, and that porn can even be considered by some as an accurate depiction of sex makes me shudder.
But during X-Rays involving the crotch, genitals should be visible. I know it'd result in a AO rating. But I suppose showing an already castrated man's stump would only result in a M rating, however. For obvious reasons. Heh.
"Go watch porn" as a response to the suggestion two paragraphs ago, would merely prove one of my points right: a character being badly mutilated, with chunks of skin, eyes or noses missing, is perfectly fine with a lot of people. They might even view these as battle scars, things to be proud of, to show to the world! But that same character showing certain parts of their body? Well you know the drill: Scandalous! Disrespectable! Slutty!
To conclude this with another example, it's amazing how many people struggle to take Samus seriously nowadays, because she's been increasingly sexualized. Thing is, she hasn't. As early as the very first Metroid game, Samus had that Justin Bailey alt. And really, like sexualization automathically makes her weak, and helpless, and stupid, you know, the things that actually are degrading. Get over it, prudes. It's your problem if you let sex distract you (Just so we're clear "you" wasn't refering to you in particular, raidenthefridge).
About Me
STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.
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I think the only thing that's clear here is that there exists a double-standard almost everywhere you turn.
My flatmate pointed out the attitude of Australian law being the opposite - they banned MK (at least for a year) but allow legal prostitution. (Obviously different avenues of legislation, but still falling under the blanket term 'law').
With sex and nudity, particularly women's rights, the dichotomy exists more profoundly than any other. In the US women can wear next to nothing and get away with it (bikinis, daisy shorts etc), but Ms Jackson shows one nipple and the whole country goes out of their minds. Porn is everywhere and hushed up all at the same time. What a mixed message to send a society. The only answer there is, is that there's a time and place for particular things, and anyone with half a mind to think for themselves knows the difference between appropriate and inappropriate. (Does the majority of Americans have half a mind?)
Now think about the middle east, where most women are required by law to cover practically everything, lest she be called a harlot and thrown in gaol for 10,000 years or stoned to death. The question i want you to ask yourselves here is; what's more offensive to women's rights re objectification? The bikini or the burqa?
My flatmate pointed out the attitude of Australian law being the opposite - they banned MK (at least for a year) but allow legal prostitution. (Obviously different avenues of legislation, but still falling under the blanket term 'law').
With sex and nudity, particularly women's rights, the dichotomy exists more profoundly than any other. In the US women can wear next to nothing and get away with it (bikinis, daisy shorts etc), but Ms Jackson shows one nipple and the whole country goes out of their minds. Porn is everywhere and hushed up all at the same time. What a mixed message to send a society. The only answer there is, is that there's a time and place for particular things, and anyone with half a mind to think for themselves knows the difference between appropriate and inappropriate. (Does the majority of Americans have half a mind?)
Now think about the middle east, where most women are required by law to cover practically everything, lest she be called a harlot and thrown in gaol for 10,000 years or stoned to death. The question i want you to ask yourselves here is; what's more offensive to women's rights re objectification? The bikini or the burqa?
PickleMendip Wrote:
I think the only thing that's clear here is that there exists a double-standard almost everywhere you turn.
My flatmate pointed out the attitude of Australian law being the opposite - they banned MK (at least for a year) but allow legal prostitution. (Obviously different avenues of legislation, but still falling under the blanket term 'law').
With sex and nudity, particularly women's rights, the dichotomy exists more profoundly than any other. In the US women can wear next to nothing and get away with it (bikinis, daisy shorts etc), but Ms Jackson shows one nipple and the whole country goes out of their minds. Porn is everywhere and hushed up all at the same time. What a mixed message to send a society. The only answer there is, is that there's a time and place for particular things, and anyone with half a mind to think for themselves knows the difference between appropriate and inappropriate. (Does the majority of Americans have half a mind?)
Now think about the middle east, where most women are required by law to cover practically everything, lest she be called a harlot and thrown in gaol for 10,000 years or stoned to death. The question i want you to ask yourselves here is; what's more offensive to women's rights re objectification? The bikini or the burqa?
I think the only thing that's clear here is that there exists a double-standard almost everywhere you turn.
My flatmate pointed out the attitude of Australian law being the opposite - they banned MK (at least for a year) but allow legal prostitution. (Obviously different avenues of legislation, but still falling under the blanket term 'law').
With sex and nudity, particularly women's rights, the dichotomy exists more profoundly than any other. In the US women can wear next to nothing and get away with it (bikinis, daisy shorts etc), but Ms Jackson shows one nipple and the whole country goes out of their minds. Porn is everywhere and hushed up all at the same time. What a mixed message to send a society. The only answer there is, is that there's a time and place for particular things, and anyone with half a mind to think for themselves knows the difference between appropriate and inappropriate. (Does the majority of Americans have half a mind?)
Now think about the middle east, where most women are required by law to cover practically everything, lest she be called a harlot and thrown in gaol for 10,000 years or stoned to death. The question i want you to ask yourselves here is; what's more offensive to women's rights re objectification? The bikini or the burqa?
The burqa is only a good thing if that's what a woman personally wants to wear, and not because of cultural expectations. Otherwise, it is oppressive and dehumanizing. It covers all of a woman's body just so some loser "husband" (more like, owner) doesn't have to worry about other men looking at her, and so we can't differentiate them, stripping them of their individuality. The burqa also exists because of this stupid idea that men just cannot control themselves around women of their liking, and that women who don't wear it are to blame if they get raped or sexually harrassed.
The bikini is more complex. To me, it's degrading if a woman's sexiness is treated as her main, if not only quality, as a person. It's also problematic when only women wear sexy clothing while men don't. In both cases, the problem is clearly how the bikini-clad women are treated, not that they're wearing bikinis in the first place.


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I think there's a misunderstanding here regarding why people don't want profanity in MKX. It's not a moral qualm; it's an artistic qualm. You fundamentally change the atmosphere of your story when you add a level of profanity. Imagine if Nolan's "The Dark Knight" had the same amount of profanity as "Clerks."
Regarding sex vs. violence, sex in media simply has more of a cultural impact (for better or worse). The reason no one cares about violence in media is because anyone with common sense knows violence in media has had no actual negative consequences in society.
Sex in media often does because like DG1OA said in the original post, people are often getting exploited. Also, anyone with a brain knows that exposing younger audiences to sex in media can lead to them objectifying women more. Violence has no parallel to this.
EDIT: and I am against censorship. I shouldn't have to articulate this since nowhere in my post did I say I was FOR censorship, but you all know how it goes here.
Regarding sex vs. violence, sex in media simply has more of a cultural impact (for better or worse). The reason no one cares about violence in media is because anyone with common sense knows violence in media has had no actual negative consequences in society.
Sex in media often does because like DG1OA said in the original post, people are often getting exploited. Also, anyone with a brain knows that exposing younger audiences to sex in media can lead to them objectifying women more. Violence has no parallel to this.
EDIT: and I am against censorship. I shouldn't have to articulate this since nowhere in my post did I say I was FOR censorship, but you all know how it goes here.
I will always have the social defunct of not understanding why some words are considered bad. I have only ever taken context into consideration.
For example, the phrase "Fuck yeah I'll ask out my dream girl!" presents the image of confidence, self worth, hopefulness, and bravery, despite the "profane" word.
However, the phrase "I can't ask out my dream girl" gives off a vibe of a lack of self confidence, cowardice, and a precursor to a bunch of excuses.
If any of you turn those examples into a feminist issue, then you're part of the problem with this world.
IMO, the phrase "I can't" is much more offensive than the fuck word.
With that said, I really enjoy ripping some motherfucker's spine out in Mortal Kombat, and if that happened to me, I would probably yell "AHHH SHIT" if I could.
For example, the phrase "Fuck yeah I'll ask out my dream girl!" presents the image of confidence, self worth, hopefulness, and bravery, despite the "profane" word.
However, the phrase "I can't ask out my dream girl" gives off a vibe of a lack of self confidence, cowardice, and a precursor to a bunch of excuses.
If any of you turn those examples into a feminist issue, then you're part of the problem with this world.
IMO, the phrase "I can't" is much more offensive than the fuck word.
With that said, I really enjoy ripping some motherfucker's spine out in Mortal Kombat, and if that happened to me, I would probably yell "AHHH SHIT" if I could.


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dibula Wrote:
I will always have the social defunct of not understanding why some words are considered bad. I have only ever taken context into consideration.
For example, the phrase "Fuck yeah I'll ask out my dream girl!" presents the image of confidence, self worth, hopefulness, and bravery, despite the "profane" word.
However, the phrase "I can't ask out my dream girl" gives off a vibe of a lack of self confidence, cowardice, and a precursor to a bunch of excuses.
If any of you turn those examples into a feminist issue, then you're part of the problem with this world.
IMO, the phrase "I can't" is much more offensive than the fuck word.
With that said, I really enjoy ripping some motherfucker's spine out in Mortal Kombat, and if that happened to me, I would probably yell "AHHH SHIT" if I could.
I will always have the social defunct of not understanding why some words are considered bad. I have only ever taken context into consideration.
For example, the phrase "Fuck yeah I'll ask out my dream girl!" presents the image of confidence, self worth, hopefulness, and bravery, despite the "profane" word.
However, the phrase "I can't ask out my dream girl" gives off a vibe of a lack of self confidence, cowardice, and a precursor to a bunch of excuses.
If any of you turn those examples into a feminist issue, then you're part of the problem with this world.
IMO, the phrase "I can't" is much more offensive than the fuck word.
With that said, I really enjoy ripping some motherfucker's spine out in Mortal Kombat, and if that happened to me, I would probably yell "AHHH SHIT" if I could.
Art Fucking Lean!
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