What´s going on in Ukraine?
What´s going on in Ukraine?
I thought we could have a topic about this. The situation has signs of the Vietnam War where North Vietnam and South Vietnam were divided by pro-America and pro-Soviet Vietnameses. The Cold War was an indirect war between these two big countries, in which USA's goal was to stop USSR from conquering the world. Russia no longer attempts to conquer the world; it's more like vice versa now when you look at it further. After USA's failed/postponed attempt to declare a war with Syria, it now funds the Ukrainian rebels when Russia tries to maintain whatever government there is, for it's a strategically crucial place and next to Russia's heart.
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Toxik Wrote:
Did Russia invade Ukraine? I thought I heard that on the new yesterday.
Did Russia invade Ukraine? I thought I heard that on the new yesterday.
There where reports today of Russia blocking two airports as well, but Russia is denying they're involved.
I was reading that it's actually the Crimea militia. Crimera is a provide of the Ukraine that is pro russian.
The autonomous republic of Crimea (Ukraine) is that big peninsula in the Black Sea. Its history bears so many invasions of different nations that it's beyond crimeinal, Crimea will probably either A.) turn Russian or B.) have a bloody war that will pacify it forevermore like what happened to the åland archipelago north of Stockholm when the Great Britain tried to conquer it.
The map in the opening post in fact has a lot of areas of interest, such as the city of Sochi (east coast of the Black Sea), Syria and Georgia. The latter was a country with whose rebels Russia waged war for two weeks in 2008. Georgia sees Ukraine's disasters as its second opportunity to become a "satellite country" of USA and a member of the European Union in lieu of that of Russia and a member of the newly-founded Eurasian Economic Union. The article I hotIinked also provides an interesting setting; what if in turn the Russian alliance armed North Mexico with "defense artillery" against Texas and California? That's what USA is aiming to do in Ukraine against Moscow and Iran. I doubt that the present disasters will initiate a bigger war but it is possible. USA takes the risk.
Russia wishes to employ Ukraine's recently dethroned pro-Russian president Janukovitsh by letting him lead Crimea. I don't think that the newly-founded (corrupt) pro-EU government of Ukraine agrees though. NATO warships (from the Syrian waters) are now present in the Black Sea. In one coast of the Black Sea you'll have conflicts, in another you'll have the Paralympics. Maybe the injured soldiers can compete too.Zmoke Wrote:
The autonomous republic of Crimea (Ukraine) is that big peninsula in the Black Sea. Its history bears so many invasions of different nations that it's beyond crimeinal, Crimea will probably either A.) turn Russian or B.) have a bloody war that will pacify it forevermore like what happened to the åland archipelago north of Stockholm when the Great Britain tried to conquer it.
The autonomous republic of Crimea (Ukraine) is that big peninsula in the Black Sea. Its history bears so many invasions of different nations that it's beyond crimeinal, Crimea will probably either A.) turn Russian or B.) have a bloody war that will pacify it forevermore like what happened to the åland archipelago north of Stockholm when the Great Britain tried to conquer it.
The map in the opening post in fact has a lot of areas of interest, such as the city of Sochi (east coast of the Black Sea), Syria and Georgia. The latter was a country with whose rebels Russia waged war for two weeks in 2008. Georgia sees Ukraine's disasters as its second opportunity to become a "satellite country" of USA and a member of the European Union in lieu of that of Russia and a member of the newly-founded Eurasian Economic Union. The article I hotIinked also provides an interesting setting; what if in turn the Russian alliance armed North Mexico with "defense artillery" against Texas and California? That's what USA is aiming to do in Ukraine against Moscow and Iran. I doubt that the present disasters will initiate a bigger war but it is possible. USA takes the risk.
Russia wishes to employ Ukraine's recently dethroned pro-Russian president Janukovitsh by letting him lead Crimea. I don't think that the newly-founded (corrupt) pro-EU government of Ukraine agrees though. NATO warships (from the Syrian waters) are now present in the Black Sea. In one coast of the Black Sea you'll have conflicts, in another you'll have the Paralympics. Maybe the injured soldiers can compete too.WTF? Are you by chance watching Russian hysterical propaganda?
If anything it's Russian govenrment loosing its head and want to scavenge territory from country in trouble. Seems quite the same script that was realised in Georgia 6 years ago.
All I know is that I'm seeing unarmed citizens attempting to fight and overthrow an armed government. I have seen videos of snipers picking off the unarmed rioting crowds and that's enough to upset me. I will always side with the people in these cases. Anyway as for us Americans please don't vote in any officials that want to put a ban on guns. I'm seeing the repercussions of such and it's not good.
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colt1107 Wrote:
All I know is that I'm seeing unarmed citizens attempting to fight and overthrow an armed government. I have seen videos of snipers picking off the unarmed rioting crowds and that's enough to upset me. I will always side with the people in these cases. Anyway as for us Americans please don't vote in any officials that want to put a ban on guns. I'm seeing the repercussions of such and it's not good.
All I know is that I'm seeing unarmed citizens attempting to fight and overthrow an armed government. I have seen videos of snipers picking off the unarmed rioting crowds and that's enough to upset me. I will always side with the people in these cases. Anyway as for us Americans please don't vote in any officials that want to put a ban on guns. I'm seeing the repercussions of such and it's not good.
That was happening a week or so ago, under the now deposed president that fled to Russia. He claimed he had no control or authorized that.
I haven't seen any reports of Russia attacking Ukrainian citizens though. It just seems like they went in to protect a region where their naval base is. The new leader of the Ukrainian resistance is supposed to go Russia to speak with Putin, at least it seems more civil.
Kabal20 Wrote:
I haven't seen any reports of Russia attacking Ukrainian citizens though. It just seems like they went in to protect a region where their naval base is. The new leader of the Ukrainian resistance is supposed to go Russia to speak with Putin, at least it seems more civil.
I haven't seen any reports of Russia attacking Ukrainian citizens though. It just seems like they went in to protect a region where their naval base is. The new leader of the Ukrainian resistance is supposed to go Russia to speak with Putin, at least it seems more civil.
More like Russian forces occupied key points of the city without Ukrainian government aknowledgement and ready to fight Ukranian forces, if they attempt to reclaim their own territory.
It's all based on the fact, that current Ukranian government is extremely hostile to Russia. I guess it will become even more so, after those events.
I've no interest currently in engaging in discussions about global politics, and who is in the right/wrong or even if there is a right or wrong in this situation.
I just felt like I'd say that my Great-Great Grandfather was from the Ukraine and that I like the Ukrainian flag- its got a pretty contrast.
I just felt like I'd say that my Great-Great Grandfather was from the Ukraine and that I like the Ukrainian flag- its got a pretty contrast.
RedSumac Wrote:
WTF? Are you by chance watching Russian hysterical propaganda?
WTF? Are you by chance watching Russian hysterical propaganda?
Elaborate on what you meant by that, please; like what part of my post particularly made you feel that way.
Do you still remember this? Ukrainian Mortal Kombat
coltess Wrote:
my Great-Great Grandfather was from the Ukraine
What's with everyone adding "the" in front of Ukraine? Either way, I'll go on and cite Tony The Tiger by slating: "Grrrreeeeaaaat!"my Great-Great Grandfather was from the Ukraine
Zmoke Wrote:
Elaborate on what you meant by that, please; like what part of my post particularly made you feel that way.
Elaborate on what you meant by that, please; like what part of my post particularly made you feel that way.
The comment about "new corrupt Ukranian government".
They are no better (and not worse) than previous government. And corruption in the government was exactly the reason why this all have started in the first place. No matter, how and who used those events for their own benefit later.
RedSumac Wrote:
The comment about "new corrupt Ukranian government".
They are no better (and not worse) than previous government. And corruption in the government was exactly the reason why this all have started in the first place. No matter, how and who used those events for their own benefit later.
Zmoke Wrote:
Elaborate on what you meant by that, please; like what part of my post particularly made you feel that way.
Elaborate on what you meant by that, please; like what part of my post particularly made you feel that way.
The comment about "new corrupt Ukranian government".
They are no better (and not worse) than previous government. And corruption in the government was exactly the reason why this all have started in the first place. No matter, how and who used those events for their own benefit later.
You admit in your post that it is corrupted, since "they are no better than [the] previous corrupt goverment", right? Truly it is corrupt and not only because while it is an unelected rebel government (Yanukovich is still the de jure president) but most importantly because the non-corrupt boxing champion celebrity, Vitali Klitschko, was the most popular opposition member and therefore he should have become the country leader; if only he were competent enough for the task. He is not, hence somebody else wanted to take the position and this greedy young guy who got the place is, no surprise, a bit crooked. Now, what's the difference between him and Yanukovich? The former took over the rule by force, while the latter was officially elected for the task. It is clear though: Yanukovich cannot be the president in the post-crisis Ukraine, but an official election should occur instead of what the EU and USA wish: end it right here. That's a fraudulent plea because there needs to be an election in lieu of an illegal takeover. The west funded the rebellion that's now overthrown the crooked president who fled to Russia. He still remains the "president" and he has requested support from the east, which Russia of course is very willing to provide.
To be fair – the reason this started is not because of corruption but the European Union's actions in Ukraine in December 2013. The EU, whose most influential nation is Germany, is accepting ex Eastern Bloc countries now. Russia provides a lot of blatant lies within its propaganda, e.g. in the weekend their popular 1TV talk show illustrated how allegedly a Finnish blogger and military fan was 'educating' Ukrainian extremists. On the other hand it seems like the west has its share of propaganda in this situation as well, since Germany's (EU) chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane without actually giving any explanation to that.
P.S. If you thought that Ukraine's gov't was normal before, watch this.
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Why can't we as human beings just NOT invade each other at this point in time.
Zmoke Wrote:
It is clear though: Yanukovich cannot be the president in the post-crisis Ukraine, but an official election should occur instead of what the EU and USA wish: end it right here. That's a fraudulent plea because there needs to be an election in lieu of an illegal takeover.
It is clear though: Yanukovich cannot be the president in the post-crisis Ukraine, but an official election should occur instead of what the EU and USA wish: end it right here. That's a fraudulent plea because there needs to be an election in lieu of an illegal takeover.
It seems you unaware that Ukraine will have a presidental elections in this year. Initially it was set to take place in December, but after Yanik fled, it was rescheduled to may.
Zmoke Wrote:
The west funded the rebellion that's now overthrown the crooked president who fled to Russia.
The west funded the rebellion that's now overthrown the crooked president who fled to Russia.
Yeah. Funded. All those thousands of people who fought against Yanukovich. For several months. Sure.
Sounds as real as alien invasion.
Zmoke Wrote:
On the other hand it seems like the west has its share of propaganda in this situation as well, since Germany's (EU) chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane without actually giving any explanation to that.P.S.
On the other hand it seems like the west has its share of propaganda in this situation as well, since Germany's (EU) chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane without actually giving any explanation to that.P.S.
Source on that, please, because it sounds like bullshit.
Last I've heard Germany was probably the only country, that was supportive of Russian actions during Crimean crisis. And of course, Russian propaganda as well as opposition would use such a thing for their own agendas.
RedSumac Wrote:
It seems you unaware that Ukraine will have a presidental elections in this year. Initially it was set to take place in December, but after Yanik fled, it was rescheduled to may.
Zmoke Wrote:
It is clear though: Yanukovich cannot be the president in the post-crisis Ukraine, but an official election should occur instead of what the EU and USA wish: end it right here. That's a fraudulent plea because there needs to be an election in lieu of an illegal takeover.
It is clear though: Yanukovich cannot be the president in the post-crisis Ukraine, but an official election should occur instead of what the EU and USA wish: end it right here. That's a fraudulent plea because there needs to be an election in lieu of an illegal takeover.
It seems you unaware that Ukraine will have a presidental elections in this year. Initially it was set to take place in December, but after Yanik fled, it was rescheduled to may.
The EU and the US would be very content with waiting until then but I don't think the original government and Russia would want to stretch that much.
RedSumac Wrote:
Yeah. Funded. All those thousands of people who fought against Yanukovich. For several months. Sure.
Sounds as real as alien invasion.
Zmoke Wrote:
The west funded the rebellion that's now overthrown the crooked president who fled to Russia.
The west funded the rebellion that's now overthrown the crooked president who fled to Russia.
Yeah. Funded. All those thousands of people who fought against Yanukovich. For several months. Sure.
Sounds as real as alien invasion.
The west (see; the EU) initiated the whole mess in the first place. Have you ever heard of the Vietnam conflicts and how much the Vietnamese rebels were funded by the US? Or Syria, how much its rebels are funded by USA now? The most of the MKO users know about these, it's much realer than an alien invasion is. (Except, I don't know how real an alien invasion is to you.) Anyway, here is a source for this mindblowing event.
RedSumac Wrote:
Source on that, please, because it sounds like bullshit.
Last I've heard Germany was probably the only country, that was supportive of Russian actions during Crimean crisis. And of course, Russian propaganda as well as opposition would use such a thing for their own agendas.
Zmoke Wrote:
On the other hand it seems like the west has its share of propaganda in this situation as well, since Germany's (EU) chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane without actually giving any explanation to that.P.S.
On the other hand it seems like the west has its share of propaganda in this situation as well, since Germany's (EU) chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane without actually giving any explanation to that.P.S.
Source on that, please, because it sounds like bullshit.
Last I've heard Germany was probably the only country, that was supportive of Russian actions during Crimean crisis. And of course, Russian propaganda as well as opposition would use such a thing for their own agendas.
You could have Googled that easily; this has been in the news a lot. A rude attitude is not required, though I like your way of calling possible bullshits.
Zmoke Wrote:
The EU and the US would be very content with waiting until then but I don't think the original government and Russia would want to stretch that much.
The EU and the US would be very content with waiting until then but I don't think the original government and Russia would want to stretch that much.
What original government? Yanik and his cronies escaped and there is new government in the making. What Russia thinks of the matter is irrelevant unless they will try to invade country directly, which I really hope is inlikely, unless Putin really want to destroy Russian economy, which is already have a lot of troubles.
Zmoke Wrote:
The west (see; the EU) initiated the whole mess in the first place. Have you ever heard of the Vietnam conflicts and how much the Vietnamese rebels were funded by the US? Or Syria, how much its rebels are funded by USA now? The most of the MKO users know about these, it's much realer than an alien invasion is. (Except, I don't know how real an alien invasion is to you.) Anyway, here is a source for this mindblowing event.
The west (see; the EU) initiated the whole mess in the first place. Have you ever heard of the Vietnam conflicts and how much the Vietnamese rebels were funded by the US? Or Syria, how much its rebels are funded by USA now? The most of the MKO users know about these, it's much realer than an alien invasion is. (Except, I don't know how real an alien invasion is to you.) Anyway, here is a source for this mindblowing event.
Of course it was EU. Not Yanik and his corrupted government and his "rotating door" politics. I call bullshit on this one. This is another stupid conspiracy from people who want to see world in black and white and find somebody to blame for everything.
Zmoke Wrote:
You could have Googled that easily; this has been in the news a lot. A rude attitude is not required, though I like your way of calling possible bullshits.
You could have Googled that easily; this has been in the news a lot. A rude attitude is not required, though I like your way of calling possible bullshits.
First, it's remark about this "news" not you.
Second, it takes quite a bit of a stretch and imagination to transform "out of touch" into "insane". It's not really rude or nothing really big and special. What's more it is true and what it has to do with propaganda in anyone guess.
To clarify – in terms of calling bullshits, it is not what you have done in here at all. You have a quite "limited" knowledge on this topic, but I will answer.
If this conversation turns into unprolific nitpickery and/or flaming, I see little reason to continue this. But I'd like to count on your skills to maintain a healthy discussion. What else do you know about Russia's current role?
I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac? Sweden prepared its defenses for a possible war due to this, Finland's sent a friendly message by not acting on it. Even though there are big armies doing something, nearby our borders, in Russia at the moment.
RedSumac Wrote:
What original government? Yanik and his cronies escaped and there is new government in the making. What Russia thinks of the matter is irrelevant unless they will try to invade country directly, which I really hope is inlikely, unless Putin really want to destroy Russian economy, which is already have a lot of troubles.
Russia's opinion on the matter is far from irrelevant, and by the original government I meant the latest official government as one might guess.Zmoke Wrote:
The EU and the US would be very content with waiting until then but I don't think the original government and Russia would want to stretch that much.
The EU and the US would be very content with waiting until then but I don't think the original government and Russia would want to stretch that much.
What original government? Yanik and his cronies escaped and there is new government in the making. What Russia thinks of the matter is irrelevant unless they will try to invade country directly, which I really hope is inlikely, unless Putin really want to destroy Russian economy, which is already have a lot of troubles.
RedSumac Wrote:
Of course it was EU. Not Yanik and his corrupted government and his "rotating door" politics. I call bullshit on this one. This is another stupid conspiracy from people who want to see world in black and white and find somebody to blame for everything.
...And your reasoning for calling that bullshit is? It is not always a given that "the west" refers to the EU. The recognized Info Wars didn't label the news as a conspiracy to begin with and that's not the only source for this case.Zmoke Wrote:
The west (see; the EU) initiated the whole mess in the first place. Have you ever heard of the Vietnam conflicts and how much the Vietnamese rebels were funded by the US? Or Syria, how much its rebels are funded by USA now? The most of the MKO users know about these, it's much realer than an alien invasion is. (Except, I don't know how real an alien invasion is to you.) Anyway, here is a source for this mindblowing event.
The west (see; the EU) initiated the whole mess in the first place. Have you ever heard of the Vietnam conflicts and how much the Vietnamese rebels were funded by the US? Or Syria, how much its rebels are funded by USA now? The most of the MKO users know about these, it's much realer than an alien invasion is. (Except, I don't know how real an alien invasion is to you.) Anyway, here is a source for this mindblowing event.
Of course it was EU. Not Yanik and his corrupted government and his "rotating door" politics. I call bullshit on this one. This is another stupid conspiracy from people who want to see world in black and white and find somebody to blame for everything.
RedSumac Wrote:
First, it's remark about this "news" not you.
Second, it takes quite a bit of a stretch and imagination to transform "out of touch" into "insane". It's not really rude or nothing really big and special. What's more it is true and what it has to do with propaganda in anyone guess.
Your first line is not an argument; hardly even a decipherable sentence. No, Putin is cited as "crazy" and "insane" based on Chancellor Merkel's message. Having "lost one's mind" is not sanity, therefore it is insanity.Zmoke Wrote:
You could have Googled that easily; this has been in the news a lot. A rude attitude is not required, though I like your way of calling possible bullshits.
You could have Googled that easily; this has been in the news a lot. A rude attitude is not required, though I like your way of calling possible bullshits.
First, it's remark about this "news" not you.
Second, it takes quite a bit of a stretch and imagination to transform "out of touch" into "insane". It's not really rude or nothing really big and special. What's more it is true and what it has to do with propaganda in anyone guess.
If this conversation turns into unprolific nitpickery and/or flaming, I see little reason to continue this. But I'd like to count on your skills to maintain a healthy discussion. What else do you know about Russia's current role?
I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac? Sweden prepared its defenses for a possible war due to this, Finland's sent a friendly message by not acting on it. Even though there are big armies doing something, nearby our borders, in Russia at the moment.
Zmoke Wrote:
To clarify – in terms of calling bullshits, it is not what you have done in here at all. You have a quite "limited" knowledge on this topic, but I will answer.
To clarify – in terms of calling bullshits, it is not what you have done in here at all. You have a quite "limited" knowledge on this topic, but I will answer.
I haven't see your credentials as specialist in politics.
Zmoke Wrote:
Russia's opinion on the matter is far from irrelevant, and by the original government I meant the latest official government as one might guess.
Russia's opinion on the matter is far from irrelevant, and by the original government I meant the latest official government as one might guess.
I elaborate: what Russia thinks about elections in Ukraine is irrelevant - they most likely wouldn't be able to cancel or delay it.
I understood "original government" as the one that was before a new one, because that what usually "original" means.
Zmoke Wrote:
...And your reasoning for calling that bullshit is?
...And your reasoning for calling that bullshit is?
Because, idea, that EU would fund thousands of people for several months to receive questionable results is a shaky at best. It's rather illogical thing to do. Or poorly though out for reasons I don't want to explain right now.
It is unquestionable that EU was involved in the protests as did Russia, but thinking they were instigators and main force behind it? Nope.
Zmoke Wrote:
No, Putin is cited as "crazy" and "insane" based on Chancellor Merkel's message. Having "lost one's mind" is not sanity, therefore it is insanity.
No, Putin is cited as "crazy" and "insane" based on Chancellor Merkel's message. Having "lost one's mind" is not sanity, therefore it is insanity.
Apple is not green hence it's red, hence it's not apple, but cherry.
Zmoke Wrote:
What else do you know about Russia's current role? I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac?
What else do you know about Russia's current role? I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac?
It's first time I hear about people being "activated" in army in Russia. No one, not official, nor opposition sources mentioned it.
So, source, on that please.
As for how it affects me? Well, since the start of the year Russian economy was in a bad shape. Crimean crisis, made this situation even worse, than it was predicted. Inflation grows as well as prices for products. With possible sanctions from EU / US on horizon the situation with prices not only on products, but everything else will further detoriate.
As for Russia's role? I don't see what the hell Putin is trying to achieve. Crimea will be Russian, maybe, but the price will be quite big and without a doubt many Ukranians will hate Russians after this stunt. No more talk about "friendly neigboors". The rest of the world, who already is quite cautious about Russia, will be even more hateful towards the country. New Friendly Russia that is a non-threat for the world, unlike USSR? Nope, not anymore.
With that said, worst case scenario - current government feeling free from necessity to maintain friendly image, will do their best to turn Russia in brainwashed nation like USSR, outlawing what's left of our personal freedoms and the like.
Does anyone have an opinion on Crimea's latest election? The most of the Crimeans, allegedly, voted for the oblast's future as a part of Russia.
Putin probably plans to use his power even further and perhaps develop this Eurasian Economic Union to make Russia compete with USA more. Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
RedSumac Wrote:
I haven't see your credentials as specialist in politics.
Zmoke Wrote:
To clarify – in terms of calling bullshits, it is not what you have done in here at all. You have a quite "limited" knowledge on this topic, but I will answer.
To clarify – in terms of calling bullshits, it is not what you have done in here at all. You have a quite "limited" knowledge on this topic, but I will answer.
I haven't see your credentials as specialist in politics.
I get it that you request news sources (more than anyone does) but the credentials are not required in this topic. What's more, they would not summon your past arguments into any more valid than what they are.
RedSumac Wrote:
I elaborate: what Russia thinks about elections in Ukraine is irrelevant - they most likely wouldn't be able to cancel or delay it.
I understood "original government" as the one that was before a new one, because that what usually "original" means.
Zmoke Wrote:
Russia's opinion on the matter is far from irrelevant, and by the original government I meant the latest official government as one might guess.
Russia's opinion on the matter is far from irrelevant, and by the original government I meant the latest official government as one might guess.
I elaborate: what Russia thinks about elections in Ukraine is irrelevant - they most likely wouldn't be able to cancel or delay it.
I understood "original government" as the one that was before a new one, because that what usually "original" means.
It is by no means irrelevant if Russia has occupied Ukraine and whatnot. Russia also provides gas to Ukraine and can regulate/stop that. There's the rebel government and there's the elected "original" government, yes.
RedSumac Wrote:
Because, idea, that EU would fund thousands of people for several months to receive questionable results is a shaky at best. It's rather illogical thing to do. Or poorly though out for reasons I don't want to explain right now.
It is unquestionable that EU was involved in the protests as did Russia, but thinking they were instigators and main force behind it? Nope.
Zmoke Wrote:
...And your reasoning for calling that bullshit is?
...And your reasoning for calling that bullshit is?
Because, idea, that EU would fund thousands of people for several months to receive questionable results is a shaky at best. It's rather illogical thing to do. Or poorly though out for reasons I don't want to explain right now.
It is unquestionable that EU was involved in the protests as did Russia, but thinking they were instigators and main force behind it? Nope.
First of all, I never suggested that they were the main force behind it and secondly, you probably didn't even read what I provided. Which makes me reconsider providing you with sources if you do not read them properly.
RedSumac Wrote:
Apple is not green hence it's red, hence it's not apple, but cherry.
Zmoke Wrote:
No, Putin is cited as "crazy" and "insane" based on Chancellor Merkel's message. Having "lost one's mind" is not sanity, therefore it is insanity.
No, Putin is cited as "crazy" and "insane" based on Chancellor Merkel's message. Having "lost one's mind" is not sanity, therefore it is insanity.
Apple is not green hence it's red, hence it's not apple, but cherry.
Now that is a textbook example of being squeamish. An insane person is literally a person who has lost their mind. There's no disputing on that.
RedSumac Wrote:
It's first time I hear about people being "activated" in army in Russia. No one, not official, nor opposition sources mentioned it.
So, source, on that please.
As for how it affects me? Well, since the start of the year Russian economy was in a bad shape. Crimean crisis, made this situation even worse, than it was predicted. Inflation grows as well as prices for products. With possible sanctions from EU / US on horizon the situation with prices not only on products, but everything else will further detoriate.
Zmoke Wrote:
What else do you know about Russia's current role? I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac?
What else do you know about Russia's current role? I read that thousands upon thousands of Russians have been activated to the army from their daily lives – how has that affected you, RedSumac?
It's first time I hear about people being "activated" in army in Russia. No one, not official, nor opposition sources mentioned it.
So, source, on that please.
As for how it affects me? Well, since the start of the year Russian economy was in a bad shape. Crimean crisis, made this situation even worse, than it was predicted. Inflation grows as well as prices for products. With possible sanctions from EU / US on horizon the situation with prices not only on products, but everything else will further detoriate.
Do you even know what the term "active" means in the military terms? It's the opposite of "reserve". Yes, Russia is said to have activated/assigned soldiers to Alakurtti, which is next to Lapland, Finland, north from the arctic circle. It is mostly reported in Finnish though. As for Russia's economy, it has destabilised some bit but as far as I'm concerned it may not have a huge impact due to Ukraine. Russia has means to boycott USA as well.
RedSumac Wrote:
As for Russia's role? I don't see what the hell Putin is trying to achieve. Crimea will be Russian, maybe, but the price will be quite big and without a doubt many Ukranians will hate Russians after this stunt. No more talk about "friendly neigboors". The rest of the world, who already is quite cautious about Russia, will be even more hateful towards the country. New Friendly Russia that is a non-threat for the world, unlike USSR? Nope, not anymore.
With that said, worst case scenario - current government feeling free from necessity to maintain friendly image, will do their best to turn Russia in brainwashed nation like USSR, outlawing what's left of our personal freedoms and the like.
As for Russia's role? I don't see what the hell Putin is trying to achieve. Crimea will be Russian, maybe, but the price will be quite big and without a doubt many Ukranians will hate Russians after this stunt. No more talk about "friendly neigboors". The rest of the world, who already is quite cautious about Russia, will be even more hateful towards the country. New Friendly Russia that is a non-threat for the world, unlike USSR? Nope, not anymore.
With that said, worst case scenario - current government feeling free from necessity to maintain friendly image, will do their best to turn Russia in brainwashed nation like USSR, outlawing what's left of our personal freedoms and the like.
Putin probably plans to use his power even further and perhaps develop this Eurasian Economic Union to make Russia compete with USA more. Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
About Me
Get that ass BANNED
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This is why I don't get into debates and politics lol
Zmoke Wrote:
What's more, they would not summon your past arguments into any more valid than what they are.
What's more, they would not summon your past arguments into any more valid than what they are.
I am sorry, but all this semantics doesn't make your arguments more valid.
Zmoke Wrote:
It is by no means irrelevant if Russia has occupied Ukraine and whatnot. Russia also provides gas to Ukraine and can regulate/stop that. There's the rebel government and there's the elected "original" government, yes.
It is by no means irrelevant if Russia has occupied Ukraine and whatnot. Russia also provides gas to Ukraine and can regulate/stop that. There's the rebel government and there's the elected "original" government, yes.
Verhovnaya Rada is LEGITIMATELY elected organ, hence there are not rebel government. Only one stupid escaped president.
If anything gas manipulations will unite Ukraine and make it even more anti-Russian then it's already is after the whole Crimean thing.
Zmoke Wrote:
Now that is a textbook example of being squeamish. An insane person is literally a person who has lost their mind. There's no disputing on that.
Now that is a textbook example of being squeamish. An insane person is literally a person who has lost their mind. There's no disputing on that.
She haven't called him insane in the first place. Whatever, you have seen there is irrelevant.
Zmoke Wrote:
As for Russia's economy, it has destabilised some bit but as far as I'm concerned it may not have a huge impact due to Ukraine. Russia has means to boycott USA as well.
As for Russia's economy, it has destabilised some bit but as far as I'm concerned it may not have a huge impact due to Ukraine. Russia has means to boycott USA as well.
Sure. Except for the fact that Russia will receive less investments and there will be even more damage from boycotts. Just what staggering economy needs.
Zmoke Wrote:
Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
Ha-ha. After Crimea I think he will spit on the international laws even more then before. He have majority of Russians supporting him and many people are actually not against return of the Iron Curtain. 70 years of Soviet Dictatorship haven't taught people anything. It seems time to repeat this lesson one more time.
RedSumac Wrote:
I am sorry, but all this semantics doesn't make your arguments more valid.
Zmoke Wrote:
What's more, they would not summon your past arguments into any more valid than what they are.
What's more, they would not summon your past arguments into any more valid than what they are.
I am sorry, but all this semantics doesn't make your arguments more valid.
I have always focused in the hard facts, that make the biggest difference.
RedSumac Wrote:
Verhovnaya Rada is LEGITIMATELY elected organ, hence there are not rebel government. Only one stupid escaped president.
If anything gas manipulations will unite Ukraine and make it even more anti-Russian then it's already is after the whole Crimean thing.
Zmoke Wrote:
It is by no means irrelevant if Russia has occupied Ukraine and whatnot. Russia also provides gas to Ukraine and can regulate/stop that. There's the rebel government and there's the elected "original" government, yes.
It is by no means irrelevant if Russia has occupied Ukraine and whatnot. Russia also provides gas to Ukraine and can regulate/stop that. There's the rebel government and there's the elected "original" government, yes.
Verhovnaya Rada is LEGITIMATELY elected organ, hence there are not rebel government. Only one stupid escaped president.
If anything gas manipulations will unite Ukraine and make it even more anti-Russian then it's already is after the whole Crimean thing.
Rada is, but the pro-Western overtakers didn't obtain their present places legitimately. Regulating the gas also bears the threat aspect; so even if they're not used, Russia can affect by threatening, manipulating that way.
RedSumac Wrote:
She haven't called him insane in the first place. Whatever, you have seen there is irrelevant.
Zmoke Wrote:
Now that is a textbook example of being squeamish. An insane person is literally a person who has lost their mind. There's no disputing on that.
Now that is a textbook example of being squeamish. An insane person is literally a person who has lost their mind. There's no disputing on that.
She haven't called him insane in the first place. Whatever, you have seen there is irrelevant.
I have never stated that Angela Merkel called Putin insane to begin with.
RedSumac Wrote:
Sure. Except for the fact that Russia will receive less investments and there will be even more damage from boycotts. Just what staggering economy needs.
Zmoke Wrote:
As for Russia's economy, it has destabilised some bit but as far as I'm concerned it may not have a huge impact due to Ukraine. Russia has means to boycott USA as well.
As for Russia's economy, it has destabilised some bit but as far as I'm concerned it may not have a huge impact due to Ukraine. Russia has means to boycott USA as well.
Sure. Except for the fact that Russia will receive less investments and there will be even more damage from boycotts. Just what staggering economy needs.
Hopefully it won't be drastic. I know Russia will develop a lot in high technology in future and Russia's got a lot of goods to sell abroad.
RedSumac Wrote:
Ha-ha. After Crimea I think he will spit on the international laws even more then before. He have majority of Russians supporting him and many people are actually not against return of the Iron Curtain. 70 years of Soviet Dictatorship haven't taught people anything. It seems time to repeat this lesson one more time.
Zmoke Wrote:
Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
Here's to hope Russia will proceed according to the international laws.
Ha-ha. After Crimea I think he will spit on the international laws even more then before. He have majority of Russians supporting him and many people are actually not against return of the Iron Curtain. 70 years of Soviet Dictatorship haven't taught people anything. It seems time to repeat this lesson one more time.
After all, Putin was originally in the communist party (when it reigned.) We will see about that. Don't forget the cruelties USA did in e.g. Iraq however.
Zmoke Wrote:
Rada is, but the pro-Western overtakers didn't obtain their present places legitimately. Regulating the gas also bears the threat aspect; so even if they're not used, Russia can affect by threatening, manipulating that way.
Rada is, but the pro-Western overtakers didn't obtain their present places legitimately. Regulating the gas also bears the threat aspect; so even if they're not used, Russia can affect by threatening, manipulating that way.
They were appointed by Rada (which is legitimate) and according to the Ukranian constitution.
And Ukraine can threat Crimea to cut off water and electricity supplies.
The best thing is: there are no roads or railways leading from Russia to Crimea. There is not even a bridge. And as of now, there are no power plants in Russia to supply Crimea with electricity. Guess in attempt to create patriotic fervor, somebody forgot about those "minor details".
Zmoke Wrote:
I have never stated that Angela Merkel called Putin insane to begin with.
I have never stated that Angela Merkel called Putin insane to begin with.
From 03/07/2014 07:43 PM
Zmoke Wrote:
chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane
chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane
I am agree, hard facts is a good thing.
Zmoke Wrote:
Hopefully it won't be drastic. I know Russia will develop a lot in high technology in future and Russia's got a lot of goods to sell abroad.
Hopefully it won't be drastic. I know Russia will develop a lot in high technology in future and Russia's got a lot of goods to sell abroad.
Are you watching some official Russian TV channels?
Because, so far, the probability of it is very low. Top scientists are leaving the country. Those who stay here, barely can hope that they innovations will be used in real life, as they're mostly used for empty PR.
Besides, so far official course of Russian economy is still "sell as much oil and gas as possible". Nobody interested in changing that, since it will require actual work and will bring less money for the people in power.
The point is: as of right now, amongst people who actually have power in the country, nobody is thinking about the future. They only thinking about how to get as much money as possible and prepare safety zone in Europe or US (which official propaganda label as horrible places).
Zmoke Wrote:
After all, Putin was originally in the communist party (when it reigned.) We will see about that. Don't forget the cruelties USA did in e.g. Iraq however.
After all, Putin was originally in the communist party (when it reigned.) We will see about that. Don't forget the cruelties USA did in e.g. Iraq however.
So? How US atrocities make Russia look better?
Criminal is still a criminal.
What are your predictions on what will happen in Ukraine next? Conflicts?
Did I state that it ought to or that it does make Russia look better? Either way, chill down, bro. I just thought that was worth addressing as well.
RedSumac Wrote:
They were appointed by Rada (which is legitimate) and according to the Ukranian constitution.
And Ukraine can threat Crimea to cut off water and electricity supplies.
The best thing is: there are no roads or railways leading from Russia to Crimea. There is not even a bridge. And as of now, there are no power plants in Russia to supply Crimea with electricity. Guess in attempt to create patriotic fervor, somebody forgot about those "minor details".
Zmoke Wrote:
Rada is, but the pro-Western overtakers didn't obtain their present places legitimately. Regulating the gas also bears the threat aspect; so even if they're not used, Russia can affect by threatening, manipulating that way.
Rada is, but the pro-Western overtakers didn't obtain their present places legitimately. Regulating the gas also bears the threat aspect; so even if they're not used, Russia can affect by threatening, manipulating that way.
They were appointed by Rada (which is legitimate) and according to the Ukranian constitution.
And Ukraine can threat Crimea to cut off water and electricity supplies.
The best thing is: there are no roads or railways leading from Russia to Crimea. There is not even a bridge. And as of now, there are no power plants in Russia to supply Crimea with electricity. Guess in attempt to create patriotic fervor, somebody forgot about those "minor details".
Many of the overtakers in particular were not appointed by Rada to their current positions, till President Yanukovich was smoked out to east.
RedSumac Wrote:
From 03/07/2014 07:43 PM
I am agree, hard facts is a good thing.
Zmoke Wrote:
I have never stated that Angela Merkel called Putin insane to begin with.
I have never stated that Angela Merkel called Putin insane to begin with.
From 03/07/2014 07:43 PM
Zmoke Wrote:
chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane
chancellor Angela Merkel recently labeled Vladimir Putin insane
I am agree, hard facts is a good thing.
Are you also drunk? Labeling and calling are two separate things. You can label someone insane in the media without directly calling them insane.
RedSumac Wrote:
Are you watching some official Russian TV channels?
Because, so far, the probability of it is very low. Top scientists are leaving the country. Those who stay here, barely can hope that they innovations will be used in real life, as they're mostly used for empty PR.
Besides, so far official course of Russian economy is still "sell as much oil and gas as possible". Nobody interested in changing that, since it will require actual work and will bring less money for the people in power.
The point is: as of right now, amongst people who actually have power in the country, nobody is thinking about the future. They only thinking about how to get as much money as possible and prepare safety zone in Europe or US (which official propaganda label as horrible places).
Zmoke Wrote:
Hopefully it won't be drastic. I know Russia will develop a lot in high technology in future and Russia's got a lot of goods to sell abroad.
Hopefully it won't be drastic. I know Russia will develop a lot in high technology in future and Russia's got a lot of goods to sell abroad.
Are you watching some official Russian TV channels?
Because, so far, the probability of it is very low. Top scientists are leaving the country. Those who stay here, barely can hope that they innovations will be used in real life, as they're mostly used for empty PR.
Besides, so far official course of Russian economy is still "sell as much oil and gas as possible". Nobody interested in changing that, since it will require actual work and will bring less money for the people in power.
The point is: as of right now, amongst people who actually have power in the country, nobody is thinking about the future. They only thinking about how to get as much money as possible and prepare safety zone in Europe or US (which official propaganda label as horrible places).
No, I'm not following any Russian TV channels, but I'm aware of Russia's ongoing population loss; dead villages and whatnot that result from it. I was referring to Russia's huge investments to technology that will be fruitious at some point, because there are Finnish entrepreneurs and scientists in Russia and they tell about the life in there in our media.
RedSumac Wrote:
So? How US atrocities make Russia look better?
Criminal is still a criminal.
Zmoke Wrote:
After all, Putin was originally in the communist party (when it reigned.) We will see about that. Don't forget the cruelties USA did in e.g. Iraq however.
After all, Putin was originally in the communist party (when it reigned.) We will see about that. Don't forget the cruelties USA did in e.g. Iraq however.
So? How US atrocities make Russia look better?
Criminal is still a criminal.
Did I state that it ought to or that it does make Russia look better? Either way, chill down, bro. I just thought that was worth addressing as well.
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