Oh,now I see. I just thought that Sareena somehow would be free from her torture and cross the paths with the hellspawn ninja. Also,I would assume that Quan Chi didn't destroy Shirai Ryu himself,he would at least need some Brotherhood of Shadows members with him. And weren't Sareena,Kia and Jataaka part of them too?

But it doesn't matter,I mean,if Sareena would be just seen as NPC in her torture cell (with Drahmin as her Oni-Tormentor),then I am all for Noob Saibot to reveal everything. You persuaded me,sir.

One question arises though. When Scorpion defeats Sub-Zero and Noob shows up,and everything is revealed,what are the further actions?

I mean,I would imagine both Subbie and Scorp would be shocked,and Noob decides to finish Scorpion's job (starts killing Sub-Zero with his clone maybe?) Scorpion thinks everything through,how Quan Chi lied to him all this time,sees how corrupt Bi-Han became with him trying to kill his own brother (Kuai might even plead to him like "Brother,please,don't!" with Noob chuckling "We share blood,but we are not brothers" ), how he swore to protect Kuai Liang in MK2,and he interferes and fights Noob? And once he defeated him,he says to Kuai ala MK4 "You are free from my curse,Lin Kuei!" and then disappears to hunt Quan Chi down?

Regarding your other ideas,they are awesome!

I especially liked your Sindel idea,I mean,it SHOULD be explained why she looks like Banshee and her tatoos on her eyes and resembling Reiko and Sareena. Speaking of those two,you remember MK team hinted at some sort of connection there? Are they somehow connected in your universe? Also,are Shang Tsung's tatoos in MK3 have something to do with Brotherhood as well?

Also,since Sindel will be Quan's bodyguard,who you want her to fight with? I mean,she would already fight Kitana in MK3 when she was brainwashed. Someone else? Liu Kang maybe?

Regarding Kintaro,also neat ideas there. I would suggest NOT to include Kahn in Deception and just have him ally with Onaga. It will be perfect for number of reasons:

1) Jax is on Onaga's team initially,as a mindless slave initially,and I would LOVE to see their interaction during that time. And their POSSIBLE fight AFTER Ermac frees the heroes? I mean,there is bad blood between them,and I would think Jax would want some kind of rematch for his loss in MK2 with his new "babies" (metal arms obviously)

2) I think Kahn already betraying Shokans once in MK3 is bad enough for them to come back to him. Plus,as you said,Shokans are all warrior society, and Onaga is rumored to be more stronger than Kahn himself,no need to join less stronger warrior.

3) Onaga trying to unite all Kamidogus and,therefore,realms is a HUGE mission,where there is going to be a big opposition for that. Serving him would ensure they are going to battle short term. I don't think ideas about peace and stability in the longterm plans are in Kintaro's head,remember,he is just gladiator and from peasant class Tigrar,he has no brains of "aristocratic" class of Draco and can't think that far. Onaga offered him something he likes,and as there is no leader since Goro and Sheeva are dead,he convinces his people that this way is right for them.

4) Plus,I am tired of Shao Kahn. MK Armageddon is supposed to be his last song. Adding him to the roster complicates things. I mean,why wouldn't Onaga,once he heard his former advisor is alive again,try to take some revenge and destroy him before continuing with his quest?

Agree with everything you and Spider said about Noob's personality,can't argue there.

The Scorp/Sub/Noob scene will play out somewhere along those lines, yeah.



Shang's will be a ceremonial facepaint sort of thing, part of he and the Shadow Priests helping Quan and Shinnok with the Sindel Resurrection spell.

As for the Reiko/Sareena "connection", the truth is that the hint everyone talks about is a little overhyped and has kinda taken on this mystery that's not really accurate. The truth of it is just that on Reiko's page on the official MK4 website back in the day, it listed Kia, Jataaka, and Sareena under "allies". That's all.



I hadn't thought that far ahead about it, but it does occur to me now that Quan needs to be without his bodyguards when Scorpion comes for him. Hmm...
Your Kintaro/Onaga/Jax stuff isn't a bad idea, I'll definitely take it into consideration. Another thing I'm trying to take into account though is that Shinnok is the one who brings Kintaro back, and if he's doing it one game before everybody else he rezzes, the question is why, what does Shinnok want Kintaro to do to prepare for Armageddon? Shinnok's goal is to get all the bad guys to work together on one team, would that be better accomplished having Kintaro convince the Shokan to join Onaga (who Shinnok might know is trying to become the One Being and destroy the universe which would kinda fuck up his plans), or would it be better accomplished raising him and Kahn at the same time and having them recruit the Shokan to Kahn's side?
Or what if I don't even have Shinnok be the one who rezzes Kintaro? I could say something like when the Prince died, the Shokan panicked and they have mystics or holy men who performed some ritual to bring them a strong new leader, and poof, Kintaro came back, which is why their race is even willing to listen to a Tigrar?

Regarding Kintaro,yeah,it would seem weird if Shinnok would resurrect Kintaro for no damn reason (or the reason we haven't thought yet). I think it would make more sense to resurrect both Shao Kahn and Kintaro,because Shinnok doesn't want Onaga to succeed,therefore creating some kind of Outworld rift in political situation. But I don't know,I REALLY don't want Kahn to be alive for Deception,I guess we need to come up with something.

I think for the time being,I would suggest Havik resurrect him somehow (I know he can only heal people near death,ala Kabal),because,even though Havik opposes Onaga,he wants to weaken his ranks first and seed the Chaos,he is the cleric after all. To do so,he will need Kintaro and Shokan people to join Onaga's side,because Havik knows that Kintaro won't take shit from Hotaru,who is the main general in his ranks,and would want to take over that spot,which will create chaos among Onaga's ranks,and therefore,between Orderrealmers and Shokans. Since Havik hates Hotaru and Orderrealmers,he counts on Kintaro to start this chaos.

You can even have Baraka support Kintaro in this,because they are former buds during Shao Kahn's reign,and Baraka and Tarkatans are also irritated with Hotaru and Orderrealmers,especially after Lei Chen incident. I mean, I think it gives much richer story to it all. You can even say,that since Onaga is so heads on about his quest in merging the realms,he doesn't notice or care the fight between his people. Thoughts?

Well,since we are gathering all these bits of info into your universe,I think it would be appropriate to show "Reiko-Sareena" stuff,not necessarily in MK4,maybe even later,all I am saying keep it in mind,I think it would be fun.

With Quan having no bodyguards, I would try to picture the final battles scene,to see where everyone is and what they are doing.

I am just intrigued who you have going to Netherrealm (and WHY would they go there,I mean,Shinnok and Quan Chi are in Edenia now,their base operations are there since they captured it) and who you have going to Edenia and Earthrealm.

The only thing I DO know is that you shouldn't send Sub-Zero to Hell yet,because it is early for him to meet Sareena and Smoke plot-wise. The only beings who can go there are those tainted with at least little bit of evil or maybe Gods too,and I don't really know who would fit that category from hero side except Sub-Zero (he was Lin Kuei,so he is KINDA tainted,but like I said,I wouldn't send him there),Kitana (she used to be an assassin,but has no business there,she needs to free her mother and realm) or Fujin (he is a God). No Raiden,since he is busy in Earthrealm.

I would say Fujin is the best bet,since I remember you mentioned him fighting Belokk,and it would be interesting to see him limited in his abilities in this evil filled realm. And as you said before, Fujin in your universe is Doctor House,indifferent asshole,he doesn't care about other living beings like Thunder God,so I think it would be fun to see his interactions with tortured Sareena,changing-her-ways Ashrah, and former Earthrealm hero-turning-to-Enenra Smoke(where he is sarcastic,but at the same time we see his good side as well).

I would imagine Liu Kang and Kitana fighting in Edenia and Kung Lao later joining them (since,again,as you said,he only wants to free Kitana and Kung Lao wants to assist his friend as well as settle the score with Goro). And from the bad guys,there are Tanya,Sindel (Quan Chi ordered her to hold the palace or something until he returns,which he never does because of Scorpion?),Mileena,Reiko(you remember that former Mortal Kombat champion idea,of him fighting Liu?) and later,when everything is settled down, Goro (he hears Liu Kang is in Edenia and goes there to avenge himself,but meets Kung Lao and fights him. Kitana is there to settle the truth between them and offers an alliance with him and his people)?

Everybody else is in Earthrealm,right? I mean,at least,that's how I see it going for the final stage.

Well, it might make sense to have Liu, Tanya, and Kitana be the ones traveling through Hell, like, the Prison of Souls is where Shinnok stuck the Edenians when he took over, so Liu's trying to rescue her and Tanya's leading him into a trap, and Kitana's also out walking around because Mileena let her out of her cell so they could fight.

Or if having the Liu stuff happen in Edenia makes more sense, it could be a small group of supporting cast characters who have nothing better to do like Johnny Cage and Kai. Fujin could indeed lead them.
Whoever I pick, the "only evil people can go to Hell" part is gonna be a bit of a problem I'll have to write a way around anyway...

Kitana's MK Gold bio:

As Quan Chi forces leave her realm of Edenia to battle Raiden and his forces, Kitana manages to escape the remaining guards surprisingly easy. She thinks little of her escape and moves quickly into the battle against Shinnok and Quan Chi. Edenia's future depends on her success.

So I would assume,Kitana is imprisoned in Edenia,and therefore,Tanya and Liu should be there too.

I thought you had Kai and Johnny Cage assist Raiden in his final battle with Shinnok,because you wanted to have someone else take Liu and Kung's roles as the new main heroes? Not like Kai or Cage become one later on in games,but I suppose,they are the best candidates for that in THIS game. Having faced the former Elder God really makes Kai wonder about his purpose,and that's why maybe he goes for spiritual travel after MK4 and becomes hermit? And Cage,being resurrected and in Armageddon trying to lead the good guys and have these visions of Shinnok should have some connection to this fight,shouldn't it?

Since Jax,Sonya and Jarek are fighting people in Earthrealm as well (Baraka and Reptile?) and Sub-Zero has his own adventure with Scorpion and Noob Saibot,it still leaves Fujin as the only one for Hell mission. Thoughts?

Also,I edited my post earlier,the part about Kintaro/Havik,you might have missed it.

Now obviously Shaolin Monks is not the best example to use, but in that game's storyline, and of course I use the term loosely, Liu and Kung, despite being Shaolin, are able to enter Hell because they've been running around killing a shitload of Kahn's goons up to this point and therefore their souls got tainted. And since MK3 was a full on invasion of Earth from Outworld, I imagine the Earthrealm defenders probably had to kill quite a few of the invading Extermination Squad members in order to survive that whole ordeal, so there's one possible way to get around the whole "Only vile people go to Hell" thing. Of course, I do find it funny that Ashrah is able to escape Hell by "purifying" her soul through killing demons with her sword. I guess some things just can't make logical sense, lol.

Well, MK4 does have Kitana in Edenia...but all she does in the story is escape from her cell, go to the throne room, and fight Mileena. It's awful short and unimportant. It would give her more to do if the cell she was imprisoned in was in Hell and she had more of a journey to take before getting back to Edenia.

And y'know Tanya's ending, where she leads Liu into a room with Quan and Shinnok waiting to ambush him...I've mentioned before I think that the real canon ending of MK4 was that that DOES happen, except Quan Chi (and the amulet) isn't there because Scorpion dragged him to Hell, so Liu fights a depowered Shinnok and wins?

Well...in my version, I want Raiden to be the guy who has the final fight with Shinnok...but that doesn't mean some version of this scene with Liu and Tanya won't happen. And the thing is, that ending takes place in a dungeon or room that looks kinda like it's part of the Fire Well stage. Is the Fire Well in Edenia? I kinda doubt it, what with the walls made of skulls and all the fire...Plus, I believe Armageddon remade it and established it as a forge/armory located in the Netherealm?

Besides, what better place to lead a hero into a trap than Hell? The whole realm is a dungeon, AND leading Liu there, while Shinnok is in a different realm like Earth or Edenia, keeps Liu from fighting them, which is good strategy for them because he's the Champion of Mortal Kombat, the biggest threat to their plans.

On the other side of things, if I go with Johnny and Kai, having them help Raiden in the final battle doesn't stop them from spending their time before that battle being somewhere else. Perhaps the whole reason Johnny and Kai are able to help is because they went to Hell and found things out about Shinnok, and brought that knowledge or weapon or whatever it is that they found back with them.

Also, Johnny's role in MK4 is going to be kind of complex. I want to explore a mystery in his origin story. See...I think it's interesting that Johnny has the same powers as Shao Kahn and Nightwolf. Kahn gets them from stealing souls, and Nightwolf gets them by borrowing power from the souls in the Spirit Realm. But Johnny doesn't use souls as far as we know, does he?

And why do his powers turn red and get more powerful sometimes? You'll note in my MK1 script that I have him use Red Shadows specifically during a scene where he's a little out-of-control with anger and grief.

So I want to take his MK9 bio about being descended from an ancient Greek cult and say "That cult worshipped Hades. And Hades is another name for Shinnok. Johnny gets his spirit-energy from the Netherealm."

So journeying into Hell to learn more about the bad guys could fit a story about Johnny finding out that's where his powers come from. Also, connecting Johnny to Shinnok explains why Shinnok would pick Johnny as the guy to use as a pawn in Armageddon, appearing to him in a vision and tricking him into assembling the army of good guys.

As for the bit about tainted souls and MKSM...an argument can be made that killing pure-evil beings like Demons and Tarkatans isn't a sin, and that everyone they kill was in self-defense anyway...but it could be very interesting for his character development to have Liu give up his pacifism to kill soldiers during the invasion...then find out in MK4 that it had consequences and now he can enter Hell. With Johnny, I can work around the fact that he just came back from Heaven last time he died because of the stuff I just said about where his powers come from. Kai is a trickier one, but maybe he's got a rough past and came from "the streets" or something like that before he became a monk? After all, his alt costume in MK4 was jeans and a leather jacket, and his bio in the strategy guide said his hometown is Detroit...which is every bit the shithole in the real world that Robocop made it look like, which is funny since Robocop was a satire set in the future.

Fujin is actually the trickiest one to justify, because Raiden couldn't go to Hell in Mythologies.

As for Ashrah's sword...it IS magic, it's specifically designed to slay evil monsters and reward the user with soul-purification. And like I said, killing a demon isn't necessarily an evil act. (Though maybe it depends on the demon's personality, since Sareena and Ashrah kinda prove they aren't all born pure-evil.)

I love those ideas for Liu and Johnny's development.
Good point on Fujin, I don't think just being an asshole is gonna allow him into Hell, haha.

On the subject of MK4, I was wondering about Jax throwing Jarek off a cliff after tracking him down. MKU and MKA do hint at Jax having some anger issues building up, but since this is a few years before those games it makes me wonder what Jarek will do to piss Jax off enough to murder him when before it just seemed like he intended to arrest him.

I was thinking that like in his and Jax's MK4 endings, he throws Sonya off a cliff to avoid being arrested, only Sonya was just very badly and injured instead of killed, and this is what pisses of Jax. Only problem with my guess is that if Sonya can survive falling down a cliff, there's no reason for Jax to assume Jarek couldn't ether, unless they happed to be near an even bigger cliff. I dunno.

I can't say for sure that scene will even happen in my version since I've not thought that far ahead, and the only reason we know it's canon is from Jarek's MKA bio...but the rest of Jarek's MKA bio is a bunch of ridiculous 4th wall-breaking bullshit about learning how to steal other people's "Fatalities". I sure as hell ain't using that when I get to MKA.

Wow,man,Johnny Cage idea for MK4 is brilliant,you never seem to amaze me,bro! Good stuff! I also love the idea of Johnny,Liu and Kai trying to make a sense of HOW they are able to enter Hell,when they thought they were pure enough to be rejected.

I think you should combine Kai,Johnny,Liu and Tanya going to Hell together and then split up,and while Johnny and Kai are going to find some answers on how to defeat Shinnok (what exactly I don't know,like you suggested) and probably face Belokk on their way to it, Liu Kang should be ambushed in that Fire Well stage by Reiko and some Brotherhood of Shadows ninjas. Tanya will want to join the fight and finish Liu herself,but is interrupted by Kitana,who came to Liu's aid.

I think having Liu Kang face Reiko in Liu's final battle of MK4 is the perfect opportunity to show Reiko is not to be messed with and he was enough of a challenge for a Champion (and we agreed that it would be a good idea to show Reiko as former Champion himself,the one who got Edenia conquered for Kahn,but later murdered by Edenian Resistance). It just justifies on WHY he is the general of BOTH Shinnok and Shao Kahn. I would even suggest to have Reiko win all of his matches with good guys prior this fight to show he is the real deal (and the Emperor material for your sequels).

I don't know where you will fit Sindel in all this,but maybe when Liu and Kitana go back to Edenia to take the Palace back,they face off against her?

Just out of curiousity,how do you plan to portray Shinnok in your universe,given that he is the mastermind behind MK4's invasion and Armageddon as well,but the games seem to make an impression Quan Chi is much smarter than his boss. I mean,shouldn't Shinnok have some card up his sleeve should Quan Chi betray him? Especially with trusting sorcerer with his Amulet?

I've been thinking the same thing, to be honest. As I was typing out my previous responses, it kept occurring to me "these are all good ideas, I could do both."



I think Shinnok is the more cunning of the two in his plots, given how Armageddon was all his doing. It's just that in MK4, he actually doesn't even know Quan has the real amulet. He's basically Emperor Palpatine, and the Emperor never expected Vader to pick him up and throw him down a big hole in Return of the Jedi, y'know? Shinnok thinks Quan is just a puppet, he's done everything he said and never shown any motives of his own for centuries, it's not like the relationship between Tsung and Shao Kahn where they clearly hate each other and you can see from a mile away that Tsung feels like a slave and wants to double-cross him and be free.
As for Sindel, I honestly don't know if I'll do anything important with her and Quan's other bodyguards like Kia and Jataaka or not. I kinda feel like if I give them fights, that would make them more like playable characters than NPCs, and I don't necessarily want to do that because I'd rather keep Kia and Jataaka as unimportant and not having any noteworthy personality traits, rather than going to all the trouble of fleshing out their bios and personas like a main roster character should have.

Yeah, he's definitely the Emperor. Of course, that' the difference. Palpatine didn't expect Vader to turn good and chuck him down the shaft, Shinnok is a God and he didn't realize he was carrying around a hunk of junk for what, years? Either Quan Chi hung around him like a leech 24/7, or he got really fucking lucky, lol

It must be a very convincing fake.

The only way to know it's not the real thing is to try to use its powers, which will WORK if Quan Chi's around to use the real one and make you think you did it.

And Shinnok only has it a brief time, the rest of the time it's sitting in the Temple of the Elements being guarded by Fujin and co. because the fake is the amulet that Sub-Zero steals back at the end of Mythologies, and they think it's the real thing. And none of the four gods would ever try to use it, thus, they'll never learn that it doesn't have an Elder God's powers like it's supposed to.

And that just makes the Quan Chi running around in his MKDA outfit all the time retcon even more asinine. That reminds me though, what would be his alt costume in MK4? Something to reflect his past as an Oni?

Honestly, haven't thought it up yet, but that's certainly a possibility.

Well I knew you said one of the things you typically do for alts is "origin story" type stuff....And, honestly, I can't really think of any other outfits he's had besides the one NRS keeps shoving down our throats, lol.

Speaking of Quan's oft-repeated Deadly Alliance costume...I'm never actually going to draw him shirtless. When I get to MKDA, I'm going to give him the vest he had in the concept art and has in his MK9 alt. It'll be teal, not purple, but still.

Speaking of purple, what exactly are you gonna do with Rain? Mainly in regards to his MK3 story and how he just falls off the face of the, er, realms before Armageddon. Would have asked in that other thread, but, you know.

Damn,really? I always hoped to see you draw it,but oh well. Maybe as an alt or MK Armageddon costume?

I'm sure he means never.

Quan Chi's MKDA-concept costume with the vest is exactly the same as the shirtless one. It just, y'know, has a vest. So if I draw it with the vest, I never really have a reason to draw it without, because it's not different enough.
Anyway, not sure about Rain, really. We know from Deception Konquest that between MK3 and MKA, he's still considered a traitor, a criminal that Jade occasionally thwarts or tries to catch...

I told Noobsmoke at one point most of my plans for MK3, but I can't remember for sure if I said I wanted Kitana to successfully turn Rain against Kahn like in his MKT ending, or fail as a show of how much a selfish dick Rain is.

Obviously, abandoning his post but not joining the good guys, going off on his own to try and attack Kahn, ended in failure...or he decided instead to just run away from the whole war since he's kind of a coward. Either way, no one would think of him as a hero, he'd still be unwelcome in Edenia because he betrayed the rebellion to join Kahn's army in the first place, and unwelcome in Outworld because he betrayed them as well, thus, spending years in hiding to avoid either side jailing or killing him.

If I go with the latter, maybe I'll give him a cameo in Deadly Alliance, fighting on Kano and Noob Saibot's side against Kitana and Goro.

Either way, I'd also rather have him somehow find out on his own that Argus is his dad instead of being told by Quan Chi like in his MKA bio or by Raiden like in his MK9 ending. So maybe he was off on his own wandering Edenia and researching its history or something like that, I dunno.

Yeah, I'd definitely go with selfish dick coward and finding out his heritage on his own. The MKDA cameo isn't a bad idea, either. I was just curious as to what the hell his fate would have been since his MKA bio did, in fact, completely ignore his MK3 story altogether/where he'd been the whole time. I mean, at least we knew what happened to characters like Sheeva. Chick never saw that double back stabbing coming....

Something I forgot to ask earlier, since you're changing MK4's ending to Raiden being the one who defeats Shinnok, are you changing any of the other games' endings? Like, will it still be Liu who beats Kahn in MK3 and Shujinko against Onaga in Deception, or will it be someone else?

Well...Taven and Daegon will win Armageddon rather than Shao Kahn. They stab Blaze with their Drakeswords at the same time and both become gods.
I figured that splitting the Prize in half was the only logical way to get rid of that stupid plot device and not have to deal with its excess energy killing, depowering, or overcharging the rest of the cast.
Plus, MK9 is stupid, Kahn was carried miles the fuck away by Onaga, Konquest Mode ends with Taven winning, and Daegon's ending is the only one that reveals Argus faked his death and is still monitoring the quest from on high, which HAS to be true because Argus is the narrator in the game, so you'd think Daegon has to figure into the "canon" ending somehow.

But other than that, nope, all the same. (And technically, Shujinko only destroyed the Kamidogus and punched Onaga a bunch while Nightwolf did the thing that really beat him.)