Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/17/2011 10:19 PM EDT
personally i liked this episode. reminded me of the rebirth concept. the dark end of things was like wtf just happened! u got raiden who fell from the sky and sadly looks like some mental patient in all the white so the guards felt they needed to hold him in.. and the main doctor who pretty much thinks his story is nuts... obviously had to keep him. i did lie the FX and the blue blood they gave it a unique touch.

Blue's character was neat. she cared. so he felt the mutual respect.

i get that each character in this series will have a different taste of directing, but i realllyyy wanna see how kevin woulda done all the past episodes rebirth style.

i say rebirth cause after seeing the 2 movies and the story mode of mk9 game.. its almost like a remake like most of these movies today... itd be interesting to see how the MK world would adapt tot he modern 2011 style of life. even with the little Sci Fi twists to it.. just something somewhat "original" yanno? give it a chance. i do understand its not the origin of the mk world but just something to give us adapters to the new movie remakes thats never seen original versions something "fresh"

michael bay can kiss kevin's ass with the remake world. (haha dont get me wrong im still a transformers fan and a BOOM BOOM EXPLOSION action movie from the 90's fan)
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/17/2011 10:19 PM EDT
I liked blue she was pretty cool. But who is she? Raiden getting tasered was Pretty cool but I would've liked to see him go to jail and getting the chair all the while smiling.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/17/2011 10:39 PM EDT
I doubt we'll ever see Blue again. Of course, I could be wrong. I assume next week is the cyber ninjas, correct? Can't wait to see a robot slug fest that's hopefully not peppered with explosions every 5 seconds. tongue
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/17/2011 11:45 PM EDT
I think Scorpion/Sub-Zero is next and Sektor/Cyrax is the end.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 12:04 AM EDT
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I think Scorpion/Sub-Zero is next and Sektor/Cyrax is the end.

Oh, even better!! I only have to wait a week instead of 3. grin
....Please do not dissappoint.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 12:04 AM EDT
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
"Cheesy" Blah blah blah, always with the unimaginative jackasses who think movies about magic can't be good.

There is a movie in the theater right now about a god of thunder who has actual lightning powers and flies, and characters traveling to and from Earth and mystical worlds with gods and monsters via a magic portal.

It is very entertaining and successfully making millions of dollars.

Suck it long and suck it hard.

I wish there was a way to put this up in the forum header so that everyone who comes here would read it.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 12:06 AM EDT
I'm starting to regret not having seen Thor yet.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 12:23 AM EDT
For the uninitiated; gods on Earth or as mortals isn't any kind of new idea, in Thor, or otherwise. I'm not sure if that's to Tancharoen's benefit or detriment, given that it's an idea that has been played out a hundred times over and far better with more appropriate resources, in other mediums.

The notion that it's somehow mysteriously impossible to put fiction onto film is itself a very archaic method of thinking. As has already been stated throughout this thread, MK is a direct adjacent to superheroes, inspired by them in many ways. The financial and critical successes of examples like Spider-man, Iron Man, Sin City, Batman, and Thor are bold, deliberate, plain as day examples of the inherent value of representing a license with any kind of profile with direct relation. Which is arguably why those films are the much-talked about future to the antiquated, dated approach of the X-Men films, who did a service to lay the first stone, but were quickly rendered obselete by Spider-man.

Scan some of the other highest grossing films of the last five to ten years and you're inundated by Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Pirates of the Carribbean. Colourful, boldly fictional tales of fantastical characters in more fantastical situations.

Budget isn't the issue for Mortal Kombat. Getting with the times, is.
Really getting the fullest out of the MK license in a film medium would probably require a little embellishment, but there's zero reason you couldn't enforce the brand with the same confidence of all those other dramatically successful Hollywood films. It's really absurd to ever think otherwise. Brands like these may have struggled over the years, but there are plenty of other examples throughout cinema. It doesn't get much more colourful (or visually literal) than Dick Tracy and that one even managed an Oscar.

I think one of the unfortunate qualities of Legacy is that it seems to, in a fundmental sense, appeal to the lowest common denominator, because in many ways it is what the lowest common denominator would create. It is a disservice to MK to say it cannot do better.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:08 AM EDT
@Mick Lucifer: Despite liking some things about Legacy and some of it's ideas.....I pretty much corroborate with what you said.

Anyone thinking "fantasy" cant work on film in a fantasy franchise serously needs to go to that Mental Institute that Raiden was stuck in.tongue

If R-rated fantasy films would be too "cheesy" then why do people still consider "Conan The Barbarian " a great film(though it raped the original character)?, why did Del Toro's Pan's Labryinth win awards?, and why was 300 so successful?

And if they want to BS about it having a fantasy world with fantasy creatures they should keep in mind how successful the Harry Potter and LOTR franchises are and those are also WB films.

Not to mention...if doing a movie about MK1 then the fantasy would mostly be with the characters while on an island that has locales that simply resembles an Asian palace with stages like the Courtyard, The Throne Room(Shang Tsung's), The Palace Gates, The Pit. The closest thing to an "outlandish" locale would be Goro's Lair and that's only cause he's in it lol. So yeah that supernatural= cheesy dichtonomy some of these guys are pushing is complete bullshit and I'm sure they know it.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:20 AM EDT
^^Agreed, complete, total, absolute, bullshit.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:29 AM EDT
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:

I think one of the unfortunate qualities of Legacy is that it seems to, in a fundmental sense, appeal to the lowest common denominator, because in many ways it is what the lowest common denominator would create. It is a disservice to MK to say it cannot do better.

I really think you underestimate the extent of budget and time constraints this show is under. I expect you of all people to be able to take that into account.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:40 AM EDT
@T-rex: Yeah for some things due to those factors I recommend cutting some slack especially since he was also on a get in and get out type shooting schedule as well.

Hopefully if he gets Season 2 or a movie he can improve his execution on several things with a better schedule to work with.

@SPider804: Glad some you're one of the MK fans that realize this.smile
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:54 AM EDT
T-rex Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
I think one of the unfortunate qualities of Legacy is that it seems to, in a fundmental sense, appeal to the lowest common denominator, because in many ways it is what the lowest common denominator would create. It is a disservice to MK to say it cannot do better.

I really think you underestimate the extent of budget and time constraints this show is under. I expect you of all people to be able to take that into account.

I definitely appreciate that fact, and with a more even approach, would at least acknowledge that this episode got a good quality film for its money, much better looking than the first few episodes.

I think the constraints of budget and time are completely tangential to Legacy's most noteworthy problems, though. It might limit the bredth of how you depict the property, but it doesn't intrude on the creative space and the fundamental direction of the project. Particularly not when you resign yourself to examining the characters on their own terms.

The 'lowest common denominator' refers to the creative direction and storytelling, not the film stock or visual effects. A mental patient getting tasered was literally something everyone and their dog on the internet joked about after Rebirth. This is not a grand, or unique vision we're dealing with. It also isn't palette swaps and paragraphs of text because of inherent restraints on the medium.

When it comes down to a written dollar figure and days on a calendar, it should be very easy to start to imagine how improvements could be made.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 02:39 AM EDT
I like the development of the series so far and most of the episodes but the way this one went wasn't for me.

Kudos to Tancharoen for the production. All the equipment seems there and the casting is at least acceptable. I understand from the message written at the start that he created his own interpretation of Raiden's story which is brave. Like many here, I agree that it was strange that he couldn't fight people when he was first captured. Although I know that in MK1 Raiden took on mortal form to fight in MK, he still had his electrical powers so I don't get how he didn't have them. I thought, well, ok, its a different intrepretation but like Delarathon said, how is it that when he lands the first time, he is "weakened" and can't resist the capture of the mental institute employees but at the end when Blue stabs him and he gets teleported to somewhere else, he's up straight away and walking again, takes a wicker hat, looks back at some guy and electricity is in his eyes. This was the main problem for me with this episode that Tancharoen wasn't consistent with the story of the episode.

If there is going to be an alternative interpretation to Raiden's story, go with the MK1 story. I want evil Raiden causing havoc all over the place with his powers :D. I know there is Big Trouble in Little China (where one of the characters was the original inspiration for Raiden) who was evil but I want something MK related. I really want to see what Raiden is capable of. We have the fighting games for that, I know but I want something from a film :)

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 07:21 AM EDT
Balkan Wrote:
After the embarrassments that were episodes 4 and 5 (not even Syfy channel would play that Mileena/Kitana crap) it was nice to see an episode return to a bit better direction.


STFU you dumbass, why would you hate on Mileena and Kitana so much but like Sindel? She was in it too.

This episode was terrible, why would Raiden be so weak? THat is no God, that is a loser.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 07:37 AM EDT
Milaana Wrote:
Balkan Wrote:
After the embarrassments that were episodes 4 and 5 (not even Syfy channel would play that Mileena/Kitana crap) it was nice to see an episode return to a bit better direction.


STFU you dumbass, why would you hate on Mileena and Kitana so much but like Sindel? She was in it too.

This episode was terrible, why would Raiden be so weak? THat is no God, that is a loser.



Banhammer vicinity.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 08:59 AM EDT
Ummm...WAT!?


I see they went the Ultimate Thor route here..................O.O......


*Facepalm*
...The hell?!
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 01:53 PM EDT
@Mick-Lucifer and others,

The issue of whether or not full-blooded God-proportioned fantasy epics can ever translate to the silver screen is besides the point. KT's choice to take MKL in a different direction is justified even if he had a billion-dollar budget available to him (or so I will argue).

Presumably, we all recognize that there are some possible interpretations of the MK universe that are non-canon yet completely enjoyable. (If anything, Marvel Studios demonstrates this principle, or even some good fan-fiction.) Even Raiden as a mental patient has some potential, provided the concept is delivered well. We are past thinking (some of us, at least) that a pointy hat is necessary to Raiden as a character. The spirit of MK is not captured in the costumes characters are identified with. The point here is simple: it is not enough to say that MKL is bad because it deviates from MK canon (costumes, power levels, timelines, etc.). A re-interpretation can be great if not better than an original.

MKL suffers from fundamentally poor storytelling and writing. KT's handling of MKL is bad for reasons that have nothing to do with MK, or the premise that Raiden is a mental patient. If anything, MK is testament to the fact that an absurd premise can make for a great narrative. So let's get one thing straight: MKL is bad on a fundamental level, quite apart from our preferred imagining of the MK universe.

In short, if you watch MKL to see a live-action remake of MK, you have no principled reason for saying the series is a failure. You have good reason not to like it, but presumable you'd still be able to recognize good storytelling when it smacked you in the face. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen so long as KT is in charge.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 03:41 PM EDT
I agree this was one of the best episodes, the other one being Johnny Cage's. This is how I was hoping the whole series would be; kind of realistic, but still having a bit of fantasy there too.

My least favorite thing about this episode is this "Blue" character. She didn't seem to be a very important character, and all the speculation about who she was a few months ago kind of brings me down.

The only other thing I would have changed is having Raiden waking up during the lobotomy (or whatever that eye thing was) and getting really pissed and just annihilating all the doctors, then teleporting away on his own, or killing himself to respawn. Obviously he was weakened in his mortal form or holding back on the humans, I mean he can't be way more powerful than humans or else he probably wouldn't be allowed to compete in the tournament.

My favorite part was him grabbing the hat off that guy's head. Awesome nod to the game!
hey
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 05:47 PM EDT
I really don't get why people hated Kitana and Mileena's episodes.

I'm a huge Stryker fan and really like Tahmoh's portrayal of him (and he's hot), but Kitana and Mileena's episodes were 30x better.

I haven't seen this episode, but.....not being the biggest Raiden fan kind of makes me reluctant. I'll watch it later today.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 06:01 PM EDT
billybobthorton Wrote:
MKL suffers from fundamentally poor storytelling and writing. KT's handling of MKL is bad for reasons that have nothing to do with MK, or the premise that Raiden is a mental patient. If anything, MK is testament to the fact that an absurd premise can make for a great narrative. So let's get one thing straight: MKL is bad on a fundamental level, quite apart from our preferred imagining of the MK universe.

In short, if you watch MKL to see a live-action remake of MK, you have no principled reason for saying the series is a failure. You have good reason not to like it, but presumable you'd still be able to recognize good storytelling when it smacked you in the face. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen so long as KT is in charge.

I think addressing the absurdity of what can and cannot be done is as much about the lens of the audience, as anything else. I think you need only trawl some of the pro-Rebirth and Legacy comments on YouTube and MKO to see how down trodden the audience has become. It seems like this is a generation post-bad adaptations, who are now convinced that they are the rule, rather than the exception. On the same token, it absolutely should not be lost that there are criticms to be made of Legacy that are universal, I agree.

I also think it's a misrepresentation, though, to think there is any reason to support an adaptation that in almost no way connects with the source property. The point of all the mainstream blockbuster references isn't anything to do with budget or time, it's a blunt demonstration that the antiquated fear of colour and fiction is nonsense. The example films are not 1:1 translations of their source, but they adequately represent each property with direct visual and conceptual cues. They demonstrate clearly that it is not only possible to do justice to good pop fiction, but also to be very successful whilst doing so.

Like most of those projects, MK is multi-faceted and there's a wealth of material to draw upon. MK doesn't need to be billions of dollars of visual effects for a war of gods and powers. The baseline of extra-mortal men and women fighting each other is there and perfectly valid and not at all absurd.

If you want to do a more urban MK story about Jax, Sonya, and the Black Dragon, there's no reason that can't be relatively faithful to what we know. MK has never been exclusively about the "supernatural" anymore than it is about a hat. I would argue that MK is much less an absurd premise, and moreso a versatile one, partly by virtue of a source medium that hasn't explored beyond a checklist of moments and a vivid impression of broad characters.

I think it's perfectly valid to look upon an adaptation as a failure within those parameters. The conflict of intent between creator and viewer doesn't disqualify the impression of the latter. It is the MK license, therefore any fan is within their right to expect that to hold true, from premise to execution. It's often not the case with these sorts of things, but again, there is a wealth of references in 2011 to acknowledge the fact that the world of film is moving past those antiquated fears of genre and style, and that slumming it with dodgy knock-offs that fail to stand apart is neither particularly successful, nor satisfying.

You're right, though, and I think I and others have said it along the way.
MK Legacy isn't just a disappointing adaptation, it's an active exercise in pointless, wasted minutes. There's a contingent describing unmotivated action as 'stuff happening' and some people who are probably pleased when the episodes show a glimpse of directed storytelling. Creator(s) more comfortable with the short story format and the fiction they're sourcing could probably provide more of both to the betterment of the series, whatever it may be.

Insider2000 Wrote:
I really don't get why people hated Kitana and Mileena's episodes.

I haven't watched the second episode, but I think it's safe to say that, in a series that has delivered a lot of aimless pointless episodes, that one at least seemed to be interested in telling a story. It stripped a lot of the flavour from the story it was telling, but at least it was a clearer story, as opposed to a series of almost completely unmotivated moments.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 06:28 PM EDT
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:

The 'lowest common denominator' refers to the creative direction and storytelling, not the film stock or visual effects. A mental patient getting tasered was literally something everyone and their dog on the internet joked about after Rebirth. This is not a grand, or unique vision we're dealing with. It also isn't palette swaps and paragraphs of text because of inherent restraints on the medium.


Kinda disagree with you here, man who talks like an essay. I mean I understand your point of the whole out of this world type character getting stuck in a mental institution on Earth or in our present day as being done before (12 monkeys, Terminator etc). But I think it was unique in that it was applied to Raiden's story. The plot of the episode showed how out of touch Raiden is with normal mortals and thereby underlined his other worldly Godness (to tired to reword this, sorry) in a way that wouldn't inflate the budget of this thing ten times over. Overall I really liked the actors portrayal of Raiden and how the director implemented it into the story; they worked with what they had.

EDIT: Sorry the above doesn't directly coordinate with the part of your post I quoted, I think I might be replying to another part of it or a different post. Or I'm just crazy.

As far as the lowest common denominator thing I disagree a little here too. Back with the Rebirth thing people joked about Raiden using tasers or cattle prods as weapons. At least thats how I remember it (could be wrong tho). To me I saw the tasing part as either A: the director acknowledging said joke and kinda flipping it on its head or B: an explanation of how mortal Raiden gets his powers in the first place. Like the man just needs to charge his battery so to speak.



On the whole though I agree with a lot of what your saying and am more than open to having my little interpretation here torn a new one. I'm really on the fence about MKL, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents since I liked the episode.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 06:46 PM EDT
@Spaceman: No, you're right, people were just joking that Raiden would use tazers and cattle prods as weapons back then.
I do like how they made him look a lot like the classic beggar look, awesome reference is awesome.
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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 07:11 PM EDT
Spaceman Wrote:
Kinda disagree with you here, man who talks like an essay. I mean I understand your point of the whole out of this world type character getting stuck in a mental institution on Earth or in our present day as being done before (12 monkeys, Terminator etc). But I think it was unique in that it was applied to Raiden's story. The plot of the episode showed how out of touch Raiden is with normal mortals and thereby underlined his other worldly Godness (to tired to reword this, sorry) in a way that wouldn't inflate the budget of this thing ten times over. Overall I really liked the actors portrayal of Raiden and how the director implemented it into the story; they worked with what they had.

The fundamental thing to remember is -- nothing in these episodes is inherently required. So, there's no reason to think that the only alternative to this episode is a budget "ten times over" for visual effects, or anything else that could possibily apply. These things don't happen because of mysterious forces of nature -- someone creates them. There're an infinite range of possibilities and a whole lot of precedent for very affordable MK stories, with or without Raiden. This is not a 'working with what you have' scenario, it's a creative decision with what they have. They really openly acknowledge that with the disclaimer at the beginning -- they know they are choosing to do something that isn't inherently relevant.

They had the budget for electricity visual effects that were pretty decent in a few scenes. There's no reason that can't be reapplied to an episode that features Raiden as we know and love him, using his powers at that same bare minimum. Again, it isn't an either/or scenario. That electricity could've just as easily been an attack after a martial arts combo, or a teleport in a scene of inquisition, or a demonstration of power in a scene of threat. The bredth of possibilities go well beyond a Terminator arrival sequence and a blue-goo explosion to end another pointless episode.

I would agree that Ryan Robbins did a good job in the episode and was a surprisingly likeable character in a story that delivered almost none. I wouldn't agree that arbitrarily putting trademarked names into this scenario was an admirable attempt at something new, though. Sure, it hasn't really been done with Raiden (who has veered into 'secret tramp' territory), but sometimes I don't stab myself in the leg. A new experience alone isn't enough to motivate something. Demonstrating the gulf between Raiden as a god as the mortal world is easily achieved in any number of other ways that directly relate to the story and cast, in a way that doesn't borrow a bare minimum of direction and ideas to tell a story that ultimately tells us nothing.

Spaceman Wrote:
As far as the lowest common denominator thing I disagree a little here too. Back with the Rebirth thing people joked about Raiden using tasers or cattle prods as weapons. At least thats how I remember it (could be wrong tho). To me I saw the tasing part as either A: the director acknowledging said joke and kinda flipping it on its head or B: an explanation of how mortal Raiden gets his powers in the first place. Like the man just needs to charge his battery so to speak.

On the whole, I think the presence of the 'lowest common denominator' is less about specifics, and more about the way the series is being constructed and received.

There are fans baying for a bare minimum, for episodes that are literally two guys in black kicking and punching each other with explosions going off around them. There are vocal fans actively pursuing a pretty mediocre, completely irrelevant 'version' of MK. Something that would likely go unnoticed if it wasn't branded MK and wouldn't draw many specific comparisons to it, whose justification for existence amounts to 'stfu iz gritty'.

Tastes will vary, but this stuff, I think, is the lowest common denominator appealing to the lowest common denominator at the expense of anything else. Some fans' grandest vision of MK in a film environment amounts to two characters fighting each other. Others' amounts to an arbitrary R rating and some grime, or gore. Legacy delivers these kinds of bare minimums, meeting certain fans on their barest terms.

Typically, the beauty of this kind of fiction is that people who only care about the shallow aspects can be pleased while there's a layer of story and conceptual direction going on as well. MK has long had a pretty solid story in the games, but for people who just want to play a fighting game, that option has been there. The same can be true of a live-action series.

More power to people enjoying it, but... I think it would've been really cool if Tancharoen could've stood on his own two feet. Use the hype of the Rebirth trailer to get this kind of funding to create his own franchise and his own characters. Like I said, I doubt we'd even be talking about it. I know it wouldn't be particularly to my tastes, but at least it would have that integrity of being unto itself (with a million less hits, I daresay). For Mortal Kombat, it's just slumming it. It's a disservice to the brand to think it couldn't do better.

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RE: Mortal Kombat: Legacy Episode #6
05/18/2011 08:40 PM EDT
Watched this episode an hour ago.

Wow! I really like this Raiden! Would have been nice if he let Blue out, since now she'll most likely be labotimized after that little incident.... but the fate of the world IS more important. Oh well.

Anyway, I really like this guy playing Raiden. When he screams, he chews the scenery a bit, but when he's doing his whispery, "I've smoked 800 cigarettes, and I'm just getting started" voice...so bad ass. Reminds me of Christopher Lambllllluuuuuuurrr's rendition of Raiden, only a million times better.

I'm sure I'm the only one who probably liked this Raiden, but....I'm having fun with this ride so far. Sure, the story is a complete re-imagining of the Mortal Kombat world, but it's pretty fun.

Stryker has lived longer than I expected him to. He WILL be fodder though.
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