Hey I could be wrong but the new guys are for MK 11 and it was Vogel up to this point. While I agree with you that MKDA, Deception and Armageddon were great. He was also ( i think ) the guy that wrote the garbage story for MK9 where Sindel just kills off half the cast because reasons. It was so anti climatic and disrespectful to the characters

Because he did such a great job with MK9 and X. (He wrote for X as well didn't he?)

Vogel role I think ended with MKDC. Dominic started with DC as well and then he took over the story with Brian Chard on 9 and X. Vogel I think did fight/fight interaction but the story was handled by Dominic.

Bring Tobias back instead

John Vogel did have a hand in writing MKX, but not as much as with MK9.

Personally, I wouldn't mind anyone new doing the writing if they'd just move beyond MK1-3. They are beating that dead horse with the biggest club possible.

Bring back Leanne Hornbuckle.

*Insert complaint here without having any real knowledge of the game's storyline*

He is still in charge, simply put he shares the role with Dom Cianciolo and now Shawn Kittelsen, who is the only legitimate, professional writer.

The story modes of MK9 and X are plenty of Vogel's inputs.

Sadly the Vogel who wrote the fantastic stuff for MKDA and MK Deception seems to be long gone at this point.

"Vogel never had characters roam Netherrealm like it's a park." - This line made me chuckle.

Speakng of Tobias I wonder what he thinks about the current state of MK.

I agree with the initial post completely.

Vogel, Greenberg and Barrentine did a wonderful job with the MKDA, D and Armageddon stories.

The walking in the Netherrealm like in a park and the kombat kids are really bad. Right, let Dom Cianciolo do Injuatice stuff.

Kittelsen might be pretty good though, but all of MK9 and MKX were just Dom Cianciolo and Brian Chard. And they were bad

Judging by his original concepts and where he was pulling inspiration from, I figure John is a bit of a Nipponophile, in which case I can't imagine he's a big fan of this military theme dominating MK these days. But I don't know the guy. Maybe he's all thumbs up for the heavy Special Forces and western lean, the guy did come up with the plot and characters of MK3 after all.

The MK3 characters were the worst though. I mean, nothing good about She-Goro clone, bland Mall Cop, stupid jeans wearing and posture stereotype indian, stereotype robots from '90s movies etc.

MK1 had given us Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Liu Kang as good characters. Johnny was ok. Sonya was bland. Kano used to suck back then.

MK2 had cool Baraka, Mileena, Kitana, Shang Tsung, Noob. Kung Lao was a Liu Kang copy with a hat, but hey....

MK3 just had Kabal, Ermac and Rain as good characters, some just in Trilogy. Smoke was pretty meh. But also too many bad ones.

MK4 had awesome Quan Chi, Shinnok, Reiko, Fujin, Tanya.

MKDA had Kenshi, Drahmin, Moloch, Bo'Rai Cho.

MKD had Ashrah, Havik, Onaga.

MKA had Daegon, Taven, Sareena.

MK9 just had Skarlet.

MKX had Kotal Kahn, D'vorah, Erron Black and Ferra/Torr. Throw in Takeda from the Kombat Kids too. But the kk mostly sucked

The Asian/Gothic theme is one of the main reasons I got into, and still like the series.
The US Special Forces crap is a very big turn-off though.

I agree, I really loved that East meets West theme that they had going throughout the previous games. But somewhere along the way with MK hitting it big again it's been forgotten, or intentionally misplaced, hard to say these days.

@mattteo

I strongly disagree, MK3 characters are some of my favorites, and don't you be slagging off on my Sheeva there!

In MK Deception Vogel was the first one to depict Netherrealm like a park to walk into. And not forget that it was him that introduced the concept of Netherrealm as a waiting room for the next resurrection.

How many characters just traveled to the Netherrealm and then came back during the MK DA-Armageddon era?

How many times has Johnny Cage died? Why did he became a joke during the 3D era?

Who wrote the silly idea of Raiden refusing his Elder God status?

Who retconned Kano as Australian for no reason at all if not to please an actor who died shortly after?

Who created horrible backstories of characters like Dairou, Hotaru and Darrius?

Who wrote Deception's Konquest mode with its many contradictions and time paradoxes?

Vogel is a background artist and concept designer with some minor knowledge of programming. His writing was literally professional fan fiction. It was good overall but terribad in depth.

Dom Cianciolo is not a writer either, is just a audio technician and line director. All of them wrote story modes that are mostly doable technically wise. That's why all the story modes had scenes cut, like extended Fujin's role in mkx or a more developed relationship between Mileena and Baraka.

Shawn Kittelsen is the first ever professional writer hired by NRS/Midway since 1992.

With this post I'm not shitting on Vogel, I really like the guy, it's simply those rose tinted glasses raised whenever the 3D era is mentioned that gets on my nerves, because that era is depicted as some kind of safe oasis when it was far from it in reality. Pretty much like the people missing the 60s, you know, a decade with a lot of nostalgia attached to it, but with racism going widespread accepted, Cuba crisis, Vietnam War, Cold War, nuclear weapons, etc

Alright firstly, people are fond of the Vogel days for the depth he went into when it came to fleshing out the lore of the universe and expanding it. No one is saying it was flawless.

Secondly you are arguing that concessions that were made for the sake of the shitty gameplay of Konquest mode are completely his doing and are to be taken into serious consideration? When really anything that didn't directly progress the story of Shujinko should be taken with the smallest grain of salt or completely ignored.

Kano being changed is such a small nitpick and who even knows if that was John's doing. I doubt it.

I think John did the best with what he was given when it came to characters like Hotaru, Darrius and Dairou. We can see from the concept art notes of DA and Deception the team wanted those characters to be in the game regardless of story and John was the guy who had to come up with something, anything to fit them in.

Death in general, when it comes to a property entirely dependent on its characters especially when it comes to a fighting game, is a joke. And Johnny only died once...Plus death was already trivialized in the series before John took up writing.

How is Raiden stepping down from being an Elder God something to take great issue with. We've seen how the Elder Gods handle cataclysmic conflicts so it makes sense that he would be uncomfortable with being passive and step down to intervene. Even if it was the wrong choice, we've seen again and again, Raiden isn't great when it comes to problem solving. God of freaking useless.

Characters leaving the Netherrealm was at least backed up by the logic of the preestablished lore. Any time someone escaped it was either a struggle or because Shinnok opened the gates of hell for them. They weren't just sauntering in and out of the realm.

@lastfighter89

Vogel did not have Shujinko putting plastic explosives in the Netherrealm, you dummy. Konquest was an exploration world, so naturally you could walk around.

But in the other games, when Liu Kang, Kung Lao or Taven ventured there, it was a scary place, with halucinations, with tormented people.

IN MKX, the new writers had it only have 1 entrance and exit, though it's supposed to be an infinite realm. And because Quan Chi couldn;t teleport no more, the military troops from Earthrealm just waited for him there.

Did those soldiers volunteer to go into Hell? Do they also in MK11? Was it really necessary to take those soldiers when Raiden, Sonya and Johnny first went there? Quan Chi killed the soldiers immediately. Will Raiden or Sonya say ANYTHING to their wives and children about how their fathers died in Hell for no reason? It was a small realm in MKX, made worse by the constant jokes and puns Johnny Cage and Sonya had while there. Absolutely no fear of being in actual Hell!!

And apparentyl in MK11 they go in with some military troops again to bombard the Hellish souls in there!!!

It was bad writing and John Vogel was 1 million times better.

Sonya is a military, and she has to face an army of demons. So it makes sense to me that she brings some back up.

Netherrealm is like any other realm, it was clear since mk mythologies when Sub-zero entered and exited it like a walk in the park. So if Sub-zero does it it's fine because he doesn't use explosives? Wtf dude!

Also, the Netherrealm depicted in MK Deception and Armageddon is not that desperate of a place as you described it. The hallucinations were just a plot of Shinnok. Heck Li Mei wad beating Shinnok's ass in the Netherrealm, his own realm! So Johnny Cage, an experienced fighter with demigod powers imprisoning Shinnok is bad writing, Li Mei kicking Shinnok's ass is perfectly fine

The double standard of this community when it comes to the story of the 2011-2019 era is baffling to say the least.

I get you and others don't like the military side of mk, but it was always there. Since the first game.

Half the official comic books of the Mk1 and mk2 and 4 had scenes heavily featuring the special forces. The Lin Kuei used military jets and military technology, heck Kuai Liang's debut was him dressed with a business suit, shades and a business card.

Mk has always had this kind of stories.just accept it.

The 3D era was obviously not the crown jewel of the franchise (personally I'd say Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 is), but in terms of storytelling, it is the first deep dive into established lore. Shinnok, Quan Chi, and Tanya are perhaps the three greatest characters offered to the series' storyline after Kitana, as they wove a wicked weave of plot devices that have been utilized to this very day, including the rise of the Netherrealm, the fate of Edenia, and Shinnok's Amulet.

Deadly Alliance did sort of eclipse MK4, but it did manage to keep a few important events, notably Quan Chi being trapped in the Netherrealm, from which he eventually escaped. Deadly Alliance ultimately established multiple lores known to fans today, including the Red Dragon, the Dragon King, and Armageddon. Perhaps the best piece of storytelling MKDA had was the death of Goro, which followed the friendship of Kitana and Goro that had been established in Mortal Kombat Gold. The level of development for both characters, with a great villain becoming the close friend and ally of a great heroine, dying in combat while fighting at her side.

Deception established the first time a MK game was a direct sequel in storytelling, taking off immediately after the events of Deadly Alliance. The game also further developed the lore of the Dragon King, making it the game's main story. Perhaps the greatest addition to storytelling in Deception is the development of several characters. Baraka and Sub-Zero's lineages are further explored. Noob Saibot is revealed to be Sub-Zero's brother (though I somehow already knew that). Sindel is once again good and Jade is fighting at her side to save Kitana. Kabal finds himself returning to his true love of villainy. Mileena finally achieves her goal of becoming Kitana. Raiden loses faith and becomes dark and brooding. And finally, Liu Kang in death becomes corrupted and evil, a development I am very glad has remained. In addition, Deception introduced arguably the most original character of the entire franchise: Havik.

Armageddon, while ultimately a bit of a mess, completed the lore of Armageddon and brought the original seriestand timeline to a close. Its events would shape the next three games.

There were definitely flaws throughout the 3D era, but the lore established was beautiful at its core. I personally prefer Deception for its character development.

Ok, I can agree with most of that As I have stated, I liked lore written by Vogel, for the most part.

The problem is not the overall plot (Deadly Alliance/Deception was the pinnacle of the lore imo), but the details of the characters and their subplot.

Tanya's characters is just the backstabbing stereotype. She has a father who taught her martial arts and diplomacy, but how's the relationship between the two? What did she do after her betrayal was found out by the heroes in mk4? How sheuescaprd? And why she served the Deadly Alliance as a "diplomat" when it was clear since the beginning that the Deadly Alliance wasn't very fond of politics, but rather power?

At least in mkx she is more of a morally gray character, she is still the backstabbing bitch as ever but at least she desires Edenia's freedom. It may not be much, but it's a lot more than what she did in MK Deception (jailor of Sindel, forced to serve Onaga, explained magic stuff for him, feeding a non-existent rivalry with Jade). Plus if her ending is canon, she causes Rain's death and this fact alone could be enough to make her my favorite character ever.

In the end yes Vogel wrote some great overall plots that failed to give spotlight moments of any sorts to the characters involved if not Quan Chi Onaga, Raiden and Sub-zero. Even Scorpion was a joke to Vogel's eyes.

I'd say the quality of writing in the 3D era and the new era are roughly equivalent.

Both eras have an issue with expanding the existing lore in ways that break established character backstories and world mechanics. (Deception makes it look like the universe has only ever had six realms, to cite just one major example. I could go on and on.) Frost is the original Kombat Kid, and just as with the present era kids and their parents, no one ever believed she was really going to forever replace Sub-Zero, or force him to skip a game just by existing. The 3D era also pioneered the whole "kill off a bunch of classic characters in one shot, then bring them back with little consequence because zombies" gambit that people complain about from the new era. In Armageddon, characters who had just gotten some progression (Scorpion and Reptile) went right back to their old habits for the dumbest conceivable reasons, and most of the characters had no explanation at all.

If you remember that the previous games' stories were just as awkward, broken, and contrived in their own ways, it's easier to see that the new games haven't really gotten any worse. They're just awkward, broken, and contrived in different ways.

On the good side, the new era has seen Outworld develop into the vast and complex sort of world that it ought to be. So if you like adding depth to the realms, then there's one for you. Even the shallowest of the present era's new characters are several steps above the Unspoken Ones of the 3D era. And I am personally happier with a story mode that's built around a single solid, coherent narrative -- instead of spreading the characters out across a sprawling labyrinth of side quests just to give them an excuse to be there, as Deception and especially Armageddon did.

At this point it would be one hell of a challenge to write an MK story that gets everything right. And I will say, it would be pretty cool if the writers stepped up to the challenge and tried a little harder to stay consistent with the canon. But to say that the previous era was some kind of Golden Age in comparison to the new one, well, that doesn't give the new era nearly enough credit.

I've been saying it for a while now, put aside the inconsistencies, the insulting streamlining of the lore ect and I think what the real problem is how the story is presented.

Story mode just isn't adequate.

The older games were able to flesh out each individual character, let us get inside their heads and understand what was making them tick and embellish on their lore a bit more. Now, we barely have anything other than what we are shown in the story mode and so few characters are actually fleshed out through it; bios are shallow character summaries and endings are practically meaningless now due to NRS not adjusting them to the story mode and treating arcade ladder as a separate entity.