The variations: should they stay, or go in the next game?
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posted07/07/2016 05:14 PM (UTC)by
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DG1OA
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06/15/2011 08:07 PM (UTC)
They did give each characters replay value and probably allowed them to have more moves that they'd have otherwise, but on the other hand, I wonder if we would have had more characters if it wasn't for the variants.

Sonya's grenades and drones would have suited Stryker or Cyrax (though the drone would probably suit Cyrax more than Stryker). Goro's Tigrar fury was essentially a Kintaro one. Kitana's Mourning variant and Tanya's Naginata had moves that either were Jade's or would have suited her, and so on. Also, certain moves ended up being shared, such as projectile-reflecting ones.

So if no variations means more characters, then I'm all for scrapping them.
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frabn
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Well, you all got your Tremor now. Can we finally move on?

06/03/2016 04:34 PM (UTC)
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I wouldn't scrap the variation system. It's allowed me to adapt to how other people play. I can choose to play more defensively, more balanced, or more aggresively if I want when I see how my opponent is going to play. You can maybe reduce it down to 2 instead of 3 (plus a "no variation" version) but otherwise I don't think they should go. It was a great new addition to the series, and I honestly don't think it had any impact on how many characters were included. Kitana's "Mournful" variation was barely a Jade replacement, I don't think Jade would've been in the game either way.
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oracle
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06/03/2016 05:05 PM (UTC)
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Definitely go.
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PickleMendip
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STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.

06/03/2016 07:06 PM (UTC)
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I thought about this last time i played MKX - i had a whole week of it recently - and i must admit that though the variation system makes it much harder to learn characters (especially for me who can't play it nearly as often as i would like thanks to not being able to actually own it), it gives them mostly great depth.

I think it probably shouldn't return in the same format for the next instalment, but a different game mechanic for variants would be nice.

Three variations here is a bit too much, and one usually ends up being a bit redundant compared to the others. i.e. Possessed & Balanced Kenshi are very similar, Deceptive Reptile is completely useless against AI and practically useless against real human players.

On the app side of things, each variation is really defined by the passive ability, which can make or break a match. Slasher Jason is so OP compared to Unstoppable Jason (and it seems everyone in FW has both on their friggin' team)
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BADASS6669
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06/05/2016 09:23 PM (UTC)
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just have one but bring back the ability to have a weapon stance you could switch to during the fight!!!
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ViSilva
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06/05/2016 10:12 PM (UTC)
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If balanced, yes. Reptile, Kano, Ferra / Torr, Sonya, Alien, leatherface, Jason and Predator has the worst variations. Outside always have a variation equals another
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shrairyuwarrior
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06/06/2016 09:11 AM (UTC)
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They should go. Most really didnt change the characters that much. I only used one each for the most part.
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unleash_your_tounge
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"Life, for all it's anguish, is ours Miss Ives. It belongs to no other." - Ferdinand Lyle

06/06/2016 02:39 PM (UTC)
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As apprehensive about it as I was at first, I've enjoyed the variety. However, the variation system had to be stretched a little too far for many characters to have 3 viable variations.

Balancing has been a tougher issue for NRS this time around due to it as well. I'd still say keep variations, but only have two per character and expand the roster.
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packetman
06/06/2016 04:54 PM (UTC)
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I think they should only be unique to mkx.
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PickleMendip
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STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.

06/06/2016 07:57 PM (UTC)
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ViSilva Wrote:
If balanced, yes. Reptile, Kano, Ferra / Torr, Sonya, Alien, leatherface, Jason and Predator has the worst variations. Outside always have a variation equals another


Kano? What was wrong about Kano's variations?
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diirecthit
06/07/2016 03:48 AM (UTC)
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Go, we don't need them.

Some of them were nice, i feel like with Kano for example, all of them are a good fit, and i could see him having all those moves in a MK with no variations.

On the other hand, there were several variations that were useless, or didn't fit the characters, or just felt forced on the character for the sake of having 3 variations each.

Mileena's Ethereal
Sonya's Demolition and SF
Kitana's Mournful
Cage's Stunt Double
Liu Kang's Dualist
Tanya's Dragon Naginata
+ all the "summoner" variations

were terrible and felt shoe-horned, i can't see those characters having the additional moves from the variations i mentioned in a non-variation based MK.
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Baraka407
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06/07/2016 04:02 AM (UTC)
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It's a good idea in theory, but some seemed to work well while some just felt like filler. The optimist I me likes to believe that they are trying to have as many different concepts behind variations as possible, which is why Reptile's were what they were (for example).

But some of the stuff just flat out didn't work and some of them felt like they spread move lists a bit thinner (not thin, but thinner than they otherwise would've been without needing a third variation).

Personally, I think they're an unnecessary gimmick. Just let the gameplay stand on its own two feet for one game without some unnecessary (see how we made this different?) type of thing. I appreciate the thought behind it, but I'd rather have incredibly deep characters that also happen to be balanced well over a run button or an Aggressor meter or stance changes or tappy games in-match or even variations, which I'll concede is the best of the gimmicks, but still a gimmick and not needed.

That said, if they decided to bring it back, I wouldn't be overly opposed to it. Just drop it from three to two and make the move lists feel as deep yet unique as possible while still fitting the character.
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unleash_your_tounge
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"Life, for all it's anguish, is ours Miss Ives. It belongs to no other." - Ferdinand Lyle

06/07/2016 03:45 PM (UTC)
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I personally believe they could really nail the variation concept if they stuck with it and perhaps if there weren't so many.

I just really like the idea of switching variations to better your chances in a matchup. How a certain added set of tools can turn the tide of battle in your favor. Like picking Piercing vs Ninjutsu instead of Ravenous or Ethereal because Piercing has the tools to contend with Ninjutsu's footsies and range.

It betters odds instead of being stuck with a base character that is fighting a bad matchup with limited options. Which was the intended idea behind variations anyway.
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PickleMendip
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STATE FED LIES CHARM EMPTY EYES. Anon.

06/07/2016 03:48 PM (UTC)
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diirecthit Wrote:
...
Sonya's Demolition and SF
...
were terrible and felt shoe-horned, i can't see those characters having the additional moves from the variations i mentioned in a non-variation based MK.

I actually liked these variations. Sonya's SF was the only one with the good pop-up, and the drone didn't disappear if she got hit, so it was stronger than Quan Chi's Summoner variation. As for demolition, it's really not a huge difference but a little more damage on combos.



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lordkirac
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06/18/2016 09:27 PM (UTC)
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Stay Mileena bite and sai are my faves. not the tele one tho.
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FROST4584
06/18/2016 11:46 PM (UTC)
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Go

Overall, I hope they don't come back. I am good with : Sub-Zero , Kitana, Mileena, D'vorah and Cassie Cage. I am ok with Liu Kang. Out of all of them, Mileena is the only one I switch often with variations (piercing and ravenous). Otherwise , I almost always choose one of the three.
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MindStrikes
06/19/2016 08:34 PM (UTC)
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Maybe 2 instead of 3 variations per character? It could decrease chances for having rushed/ forced variations.
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Odemuitascastas
07/07/2016 05:14 PM (UTC)
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Yes. And in some ways associated with Tag Team and other forcing a change in stance to lose the round (Story Mode, Classic Tower, Test your Lucky, 8-Tournament Special Struggle). So these special modes and only in these modes, you choose two stances, one to start the fight and another for the next round defeat.
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