What I'm saying though is that Sektor was already the leader of the Lin Kuei in the old timeline. That wasn't changed at all. Sub-Zero had to beat Sektor in order to become leader of the Lin Kuei and take the Dragon Medallion. Really I guess that Sektor's ending more or less explained how that happened in the old timeline. I guess Sektor killed his dad to take the medallion. Like Razer pointed out before though Sektor was a mindless killing machine in the old timeline. He didn't really have thought.

I like the idea that Sareena may try to prevent Kuai Liang meeting the same fate as Noob and Scorpion, and possibly Smoke. I have always liked the idea that these two may get together though. These two being sort of co-leaders of the Lin Kuei intrigues me. Who knows maybe it will happen. All I know is I won't play MK10 unless Sub-Zero is there.

Razor the actual narrative for Smoke's ending states he returns as an Enenra and murders his captors in a shapeless form before returning to his human form. The pictures in his ending go from him being burned, to the black clouds murdering the cult, to the demon, to the clouds turning back into the boy.

You're probably the only person I've heard so far who's made the claim that the black spirit in his ending is a seperate entity to Smoke entirely (which I find odd, considering you pride yourself in being known as the story guy). lol. An interesting theory though.

Personally I don't mind what form Smoke is in, I'm the type of fan who likes a character no matter what way they're portrayed. I've liked Mileena and Kitana to the death despite the changes in their canons and I've also loved Rain from the time he was just a piss take in UMK3, long before he ever became known as a demi-god.

Maybe the reason Cyborg Smoke is not included in this game is because he technically doesn't exist anymore? There's no reason for the devs to make a cyborg model for Smoke, since he doesn't have need of one. He never got automated this time around and in this official canon it was Sub-Zero who got automated instead, hence why Sub-Zero got two character slots.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why his fans would want him (despite never being a huge fan of Cyborg Smoke personally) but characters like Tremor or Meat are still plausible characters in this canon and can be re-introduced since they technically haven't been ruled out. Smoke stayed human this time though, so the chances of him becoming a cyborg are nulified in future games (unless he somehow decides in the future to bravely swap forms with Sub-Zero via some sorcery). I'm surprised this is still an issue with some fans over a year later, time evidently doesn't heal all wounds.

Because he wasn't there, silly.

Exactly.

In shapeless form.

Look, I took a screenshot. It won't fit on this tiny-width board so click here.
Now, I don't know what other people think they're seeing when it's animated, perhaps it's just the fact that the smoke clouds are sort of used as a transition into the next scene, where we see him turn back into his human self, that is confusing people, but I definitely don't see the black clouds turning into the monster, and the text in the ending outright contradicts that Smoke is the monster, because it says an Enenra's true form is smoke.
Therefore, if Smoke is not the demon, if the demon is in fact standing off to the side in some dark place WATCHING THE SCENE as Smoke kills the cultists, which is what it looks like to me, then logic would dictate, the demon must be he who the cultists worship and were trying to sacrifice Smoke to.
If I'm the only person who's noticed this, then apparently I'm the only person in the Mortal Kombat fandom who has eyeballs and a brain that work in tandem to process visual ideas and information. And honestly, that wouldn't surprise me at this point, especially when half the people here seem to think the crystal chick in Jade's ending is Delia.

Youre forgetting that massacre at the end of MK9.
So no, no you wont see him in MK10

An Enenra is a being of shapeless form though that's composed of smoke. This is also backed up in that very same video which states "burned alive, he returned to the Mortal realm as an Enenra, a creature of Smoke and Vapour". That's exact confirmation that the Enenra in the video is Smoke, it says it outright there and then that he returns as that spirit.

Prior to even seeing his form as an Enenra in the video it says "his captors were helpless against his shapeless form as he lashed out with rage". The Enenra is only seen after this sentence is said because by this point, he's killed them. It then directly says "His murder avenged," (in which we can now see the Enenra in full), "he returned to his human form, remembering nothing of his former life". As that last sentence is being said the Enenra shifts offscreen to a black cloud as it takes the form of Thomas Vrbada.

That's pretty crystal clear to me dude. I just found those posts humorous in the sense you tend to patronize and demean other fans on the boards for not following every minor detail of the story and state how it irks you so much when people use speculation as fact, yet just there you stated it as a fact that the Enenra was something entirely different to Thomas when the ending confirms it in both narrative and picture. It's been universally accepted (even by those who theorized Delia was in Jade's ending) that Smoke was in fact the Enenra in his ending. You're the only person I've encountered so far who believes otherwise and believes it as factual.

Anyways, back on topic.

In regards to Cyborg Smoke though, I think there was a deliberate reason as to why Smoke never got automated and ended up in the Netherrealm. Perhaps by introducing the more demonic aspect to his origins they're hoping to remove him from the Lin Kuei arc and Ninja arc as much as possible and re-introduce him in later games as a more chaotic, demonic form. If Quan Chi could alter Bi-Han to the point he became Noob Saibot, imagine the potential he has to alter Smoke's powers. A former ninja turned shape shifting demon would kick serious fucking ass (as opposed to a former ninja, turned cyborg, turned demonised nano-cloud)

Personally I think it would be more tragic if Sub-Zero had the potential to be restored from his state, yet never had the potential to rescue Smoke, who by the time Sub-Zero *eventually* becomes human again is too far gone himself to be restored. It would be tragic considering we know Smoke as a person now and we know at one point he had honour and fought alongside Raiden's forces for a better world, especially if Sub-Zero can be restored to what he once was and Smoke cannot.

I remembered that John Vogel had told that in case Smoke would have been successfully captured in Mortal Kombat 9, he would've probably gotten the exoskeleton that Cyber Sub-Zero is now wearing. So the Sektor costume we see in the vision doesn't make a lot of sense in that manner.

To whom were you referring with "rivalry" in your (a tad) vague message?

...What on Earth are you talking about? You are wrong, RazorsEdge701. This also gives me the impression that you're not open to a fully scientific research in this but you stubbornly stick to your earlier statement and bring trivial, less meaningful information to the table instead.
There's no solid proof for claiming that it was the demon at least, and that sounded very "elitist" to me, as if you were above any other in intelligence. Self-proclamations... You might want to read more carefully because I for one did take your "facts" into account in my previous post but let's go through the clip's essential parts slowly – one by one.
Deconstruction of Smoke's ending
1. "...and sacrificed to a demon."
– First of all, I've read a book about the medieval cults in Central Europe. As a choice, Prague wasn't that far-fetched as Smoke's hometown because cults and druids had had an impact there (probably "Bohemia" by then) during the medieval era. It's nowhere told that Smoke was born in the Czech Republic. The moment that starts the memory of Smoke could have been a typical procedure in the medieval Prague (not the outcome!) and the narrator referred to the receiver as "a demon", it played no significance in the story and logically would've looked like any other demon would causing no confusion. But instead, you claim that this "demon" would have coincidentally had all the traits of an Enenra and be surrounded by smoke – since when were they common in Mortal Kombat? The demon doesn't need to be there watching, demons reside in Hell.
2."Burned alive, he returned to the mortal realm as an Enenra – a creature of smoke and vapor."
– This was told while Tomas was still being carried to the altar. There are no "sync errors" in it, it's just a different way of story telling: they couldn't show the Enenra killing people before the narrator's getting to it. It could have as well been told "Burned alive,he returns to the mortal realm as an Enenra..." if it were not for the fact that it's a memory.
3. "His captors were helpless against his shapeless form as he lashed out with rage, killing them all."
– The black smoke killed the druids and later the monster, Smoke, was watching back to the altar (notice the surrounding smoke) before saying goodbye to his body. And how are you supposed to have visual memories if you don't have eyes? That is ludicrous. Another thing; the fog wouldn't go around and through this "anonymous Enenra" in the short video if it wasn't Smoke, and it does have the characteristics of an Enenra (see: my previous post).
4. "His murder avenged, he returned to his human form, remembering nothing of his former life."
– A smoke puff is not necessarily a form, not a distinct one at least. You can't define the exact borders of a cloud either, when you go really accurate. Surely that's arguable; but Smoke was able to form into either an Enenra or a human and the "demon" was his torso and head (again, with Enenra characteristics). It's not out of this world that he's watching himself - a dog can see its tail and a skunk can see its fart (theoretically). Think of Gravemind (Halo).
5. "Now aware of his true identity, Smoke understands he is no mere assassin – his destiny has been revealed."
– Last but not least, the Enenra raises its left forearm in the same gesture with Human Smoke; it basically nails that it's the one and the same guy, reminiscing.You might as well keep your "supreme" thoughts by yourself... None of your arguments validly rule out the theory that the beast is Smoke anyway.

NoobSaibot5, I'm patronizing because I'm disappointed in everybody, quite frankly. About a lot of things, not just this one thread. It's a constant thing, been this way for years. Since, like, Shaolin Monks came out. Probably has something to do with the fact that everybody I enjoy talking to and trading theories with as equals fucking leaves and I'm the only one still here. It also doesn't help that almost every time I add my 2 cents to a discussion about MK9, people proceed to not listen to a word I say, sometimes the very same people who other times will acknowledge or compliment me on my intelligence and knowledge of MK history. How does that even make sense? But I digress. Back to Smoke's ending.
You're assuming the big gray monster with the face full of giant teeth is an Enenra. The ending never says that. The ending says that Smoke becomes an Enenra and that an Enenra is a shapeless creature made of smoke. The gray monster with the teeth is not shapeless, it clearly has a flesh body, as opposed to being made of mist and vapor, so how can it be Smoke's Enenra form?

The only thing that's definitely confirmed to be Smoke in Enenra form by the pictures OR the text is the black clouds flashing all around the altar, killing the cultists.

The gray monster, again, is clearly something else watching this happen. It is not shapeless, it has a solid form. And Smoke's smoke does not appear to turn into the monster. That's just not what I see happening in the video. The monster and clouds of smoke killing the cultists are on the screen at the same time, one looking sideways at the other as it happens. The clouds certainly don't appear to be coming from the monster or turning into the monster to me. They're two separate things.
Shit's on Youtube, watch it again for yourself as many times as you like, Smoke never turns into the toothy monster, the toothy monster is WATCHING what Smoke does. I'm not pulling this out of thin air, that's what the pictures actually show. I know it's very dark and the transition to the next scene after that is confusing because it pans to the right, where the monster was...but the clouds never became the toothy monster and the text never even addresses that the toothy monster is there, much less call it the Enenra. All the text says is Smoke turns into fuckin' smoke clouds. Not a creature with shiny gray skin and teeth, shapeless smoke clouds. Hell, the monster even being there would be a non-sequitur if not for the whole "this is happening because they sacrificed him to a demon" part of the story. The only way the monster's appearance makes sense is if you take him to be the demon the cult worshipped. You can't say "enenras have no shape, they are made of mist" and then put a monster with skin in the picture and expect me to believe they're the same thing, it's a goddamn contradiction.
I can't...I can't just keep repeating myself over and over here. Believe it or don't believe it, whatever. This is what happens and if you see something else in these pictures, well, I just plain don't and I don't know where the disconnect is happening for you, and I'm not just going to go along with whatever dumb thing "everybody else" thinks just 'cause none of them even thought of this. (Though if I really am the ONLY person on the whole board to figure that the monster with a solid body can't possibly be Smoke's Enenra form 'cause the text outright says Smoke's Enenra form is shapeless and that him turning into it is not even what the pictures show happening...well gee, no wonder I'm so mad at everybody all the time.)

Did you even read what I wrote? As a matter of fact, you presented that theory to me initially – as a "truth" – but here you keep shutting your eyes from the obvious. Only his arm and face look like "flesh" and even then that's because they are moving layers of him in the video. The rest of his body is blurry. It's not like the Enenra has to be 100% similar with the other interpretations either when we're talking about a fictive folklore demon!
The picture #1 is another typical Enenra, whereas the #3 is a typical demon. Which one does the #2 resemble?
Notice: an Enenra is a new thing in Mortal Kombat. The description of that other Enenra is much the same, yet it shows a "toothy monster" with "flesh" as well. But descriptions don't always tell the whole truth anyway: Goro is supposed to be half-human half-dragon – yet he isn't exactly what one would think. Centaurs in MK are modifications of the typical Centaurs.
You have no reason to be mad at people (I could do a list as to why; but this thread is not about you) and this is not the right place for psychology.
Don't pretend that I didn't consider it from your stance already. You're not
convincing even... and mostly you're a rude person to everyone, so I don't see a reason as to why NoobSaibot5 should accept your theory. And it's not about bias, it's about evidence. No excuses or "lofty" overlooking.
For now, I'm done with this non-sense of yours – disappointed, yeah right!

Honestly, dude...no. I didn't. I mean, I skimmed it a bit, but I've started trying to ignore whenever you post because sometimes I can't bloody read them, and I don't think it's worth the stress to try anymore.

Even when your English is right, which isn't all the time, about 75% of your posts sound like Ultimate Warrior promos! And the other 25% is some argument I never agree with a single word of, you're like the anti-Me. So I just gave up. There's no point in you and I arguing with each other if the only times I can read what you said, neither you or I is able to agree on or convince each other of anything. Why talk if it's never pleasant and it never achieves a single thing, right? The purpose of a discussion is to share ideas, but you and I don't share. You dismiss mine and I dismiss yours. So doesn't it make more sense to avoid a problem than drag it out? You yourself suggested something similar back when we were having arguments about the "name origins" thread a month or so ago.
I'm sorry if that's rude, but I believe in honesty, so I just felt like I should come out and say it. And surely you know how often people are confused by you, this can't be news.
(Although...I did glance long enough to catch the part I quoted, obviously. That and the phrase "it's not about bias, it's about evidence." So if evidence is what it's all about, I guess what I could do is respond by posting this picture link over and over again, since that's the only evidence I feel I need, it sums my entire position up succinctly and logically...)

But your putting two completely seperate pictures together and saying they happened at the same time when that's clearly not what's happening. It's a slideshow where the image shown matches the text.

The scene on the table happens as the narrator explains he comes back as an Enenra. After the clouds (the shapeless form the narrator refers to) murders his captors, the picture then shows the visual image of an Enenra so the audience knows what it is Smoke's turned into (which, as you pointed out has a head and an arm, and isn't entirely shapeless).

For the record, every image I've found so far of an Enenra in the last 5minutes searching on Google has depicted them near enough to identical to the image you see in Smoke's ending. Look for yourself if you don't believe me. It's as clear as crystal that the black creature in the ending is an Enenra, and as we all know, Mortal Kombat has always been keen on interpreting things differently than their original sources (like ninjas in bright clothing and bulky armour, and centaurs with tails made of metal that shoot laser energy from the tail). I'm not going to insult your intelligence Razor in suggesting you of all people don't know this. But look for yourself, none of these images of Enenra's were drawn by the MK team yet are all nearly identical to the spirit we see in Smoke's ending.





http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae21/JigglyJohn/enenra.jpg

We see the Enenra so the audience knows what it is the narrator is referring to, since not everyone is up to scratch with their Japanese Mythology, and the only reason we see it with any semblance of shape is because by the time it's seen on screen it's avenged it's own death.

If your theory was valid, would Smoke's ending not acknowledge that there was the presence of a demon in the room watching as he murdered his captors? And if it was the case (hypothetically) that this creature wasn't Smoke, what explanation do you have to clarify what it is if it's not an Enenra? What would it be doing there?

Something tells me if they could mention the ghost of Sonya's father in her ending, or the spirit of that crystal woman in Jade's ending, that they wouldn't just overlook the presence of a sinister black creature just observing from the sidelines as a little boy avenges his own murder. Why would NRS skip informing the audience about it's presence? Your theory doesn't make sense to me, personally. Especially since in over a year I've yet to hear one other member on this forum think for a second that the spirit in the video could be anything else BUT Smoke in his Enenra form. And, as you say, this is the only forum you're aware of where the canon is ever discussed in depth. If you can find others on another forum who share your opinions, by all means share the link.

Without meaning to sound disrespectful Razor, you're not that smart that only you alone could have figured out Smoke's actual ending in over a year. It just sounds like you've gotten something into your head and you're being stubborn about it, which with no disrespect intended sounds a lot more likely than your theory. You can't just claim these things as fact because you alone believe it to be that way, especially if your prepared to pull other people for making that same mistake.

No, that is what's happening, I'm not putting two separate pictures together. That's an unaltered screenshot. They're both onscreen at the same time and not touching, for an extended period, not just a transition between scenes. That IS the scene. The monster is watching the smoke kill the cultists. All I did was draw the circles and add the red and green text.

Look, if the text says an Enenra is shapeless, you can't say the thing with slimy gray skin is the enenra. That's just not how the word "shapeless" works. Maybe I'm making the mistake of expecting NRS to make sense when they've demonstrated repeatedly that they're incapable of that...but without logic to abide by, it's impossible to have a discussion about anything anyway, so I'm gonna stick with it until a later game proves otherwise.

The pictures you're posting look like ghostly creatures made of smoke. The one in Smoke's ending looks like a solid thing with flesh. That's kind of a big problem for your argument. Again, possibly the artist just sucks at drawing things made of mist and I'm reading too much into a fuckup on NRS's end. But I have to take what it looks like at face value.



Firstly, I can turn that right around and ask you, if the monster is Smoke's Enenra form, why does the ending describe him as "shapeless"? Why doesn't it acknowledge that the artist painted a big fleshy monster into the scene in your version of what the ending means either? On the other hand, the ending DOES in fact acknowledge that a demon besides Smoke himself is somehow involved in the sacrifice, just by having a cult sacrifice a man to the demon they worship. The cult's master's appearance is almost a foregone conclusion. The only reason NOT to see it appear in the scene is because they're on Earth and it's in Hell.

And in the picture we're shown, the demon's not necessarily literally "in the room", it could be watching clairvoyantly from Hell, explaining why it's surrounded in blackness.

As for why it's watching, why would it NOT be watching a sacrifice made in its honor? That's kind of an obvious one.

Hell, speaking of obvious questions, here's a little tangent that I'd like to discuss regardless of whether or not Mr. Big-gray-and-slimy is supposed to be Smoke himself or a separate demon:
Why did a man sacrificed to a demon come back to life? How come no one is asking how and why Smoke woke back up on that altar with demon-powers when he should be just plain dead. Cults only perform sacrifices to give their master or themselves power, not to give the victim powers and die horribly at his hands. So did the cult perform the ritual wrong? Was their master displeased by the offering? Or did the demon want to create an agent it could send out into the world to unknowingly do its bidding? You say I'm not smart enough to be the only one who's figured this out in a year, but here I am, asking questions no one even thought of all year, questions that to me seem fundamental to Smoke's backstory and future. Besides, I was posting that I think the monster is the demon Smoke was sacrificed to a year ago too. I've said it multiple times. It's just that this is the first time anyone's ever argued me on it, which I find a little weird.
And just BTW, let's assume for a second that I'm wrong and the monster is Smoke...what then? You really think he'll ever look like that in the game? The damn thing is Moloch-shaped, Smoke would have to be a Subboss to fight in that form. Smoke's never gonna be a subboss, man.

Why I think the "toothy monster" (later in text: monster) is Smoke as an enenra and not the demon the cult sacrificed Smoke to...


Now we said that the ending is not in sync. What I mean by this is that the pictures are "in lag" to the narration (due to the lack of pictures, i.e. visual material). Now, if we assume that the controversial monster is actually Smoke in his enenra form, the whole ending is "chronologically correct" (wasn't sure how to put it better). However, if we assume that the controversial monster is the demon, then the ending becomes chronologically incorrect because by the time we see the monster show up on screen the demon mentioning is already long gone and the killing already took place. If they were to show the demon, they would have shown it before the killing, not after, as it doesn't make any "chronological sense" to show it after the killing.

Also, the whole enenra thing is pretty much the highlight of Smoke's ending and it's the "new thing MK2011 brought up about Smoke that everyone is talking about". Now when the developers were creating his ending I'm pretty sure they thought it was more important to draw and visually present to fans this new enenra thing rather then some random (almost unimportant) demon that gets mentioned once.


But how can this creature that clearly has a shape be a shapeless enenra?

Well, the ending says two things. One, that Smoke returned as an enenra, a creature of smoke and vapor. Two, that the guys that sacrificed him were helpless against his shapeless form. Now, this says that Smoke (or the enenra) was shapeless when he/it killed those guys, but it doesn't mean that the enenra is in a shapeless form 24/7.


Finally, let's take a really good look at those clouds and the monster. I can clearly see animated clouds of smoke extending from the alter to the monster, please check the video in HQ. Here's a picture where I pointed it out:


(right click -> view image to enlarge it)

The curved lined is the part of the screen you need to look at to see it (honestly, it's really not that hard to see it, just watch it in HQ). You can even see animation effects where I put the dots on the right side of the image. To me there is a clear smoke connection with the monster and the animated parts on the right make it look like the monster is surrounded by clouds of smoke (it's much harder to see it there though since the background is dark). And then there's the following transition to the next picture where we see good old Smoke and the same black clouds lead from the monster to reveal Smoke:


(right click -> view image to enlarge it)



When I take into account the chronological order of the events, the importance of the demon vs the enenra and the limited visual presentation of (all) the ending(s), well to me this controversial monster is the enenra.


And please, let's be respectful to each other. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone, neither am I claiming things are the way I see them. I'm just sharing my impression of the ending and the reasons why I see it that way.

Yeah...I'm actually not seeing any tether between the monster and the clouds attacking the cultists, even in HQ with my monitor's brightness jacked all the way up.

What I am seeing is that the smoke clouds and the background are both black, which presents a bit of a problem for solving this argument either way.

And like I already said about the transition, I don't think the smoke that turns back into Smoke is coming from the monster itself, it's coming from the edge of the screen and the monster just happened to be there because of the direction the scenes panned from one to the next in. That damn scene transition is simply too vague a matter for me to either use for my argument or accept as part of the opposing one.
Regardless of what's shown in this ending, I'm of the opinion that Smoke's "Enenra form" is what we see every time he does a teleport, and if he ever fully takes such a form as a costume, it'll look like Deception Smoke without the helmet. I simply cannot see him ever being that monster in gameplay, even if the monster is meant to be him. I really don't expect them to put another character through the sort of shit Reptile went through in Deadly Alliance and Deception.

Blatant lie. There's 5 whole seconds of footage and narrative inbetween those images. The first, which I've pasted below:



Exactly before that image is shown, there's a picture of Tomas being brought before a burning Altar, in which the narrator says: "Burned alive, he returned to the Mortal realm as an Enenra, a creature of Smoke and vapour".

As the above image is shown (for 5 whole seconds prior to the black figure even being seen) the narrator says "his captors were helpless against his shapeless form as he lashed out with rage, killing them all". The toothed figure only comes into view once it's been stated they've been killed, in which case he obviously has no further need to be shapeless since he's already killed them.



Technically the only "shapes" we see this creature have is an arm and a head. It's actually clearly visible in the video that the rest of it's body IS the black cloud. Hell I've even drawn around the shape of the cloud as it connects back to the monster. How can something be watching from the sidelines if part of it's body matter is surrounding the victims?? The "shapeless form" (aka the black Smoke clouds) are clearly killing the cult here and connecting back to the monster. How could it be an entity seperate to Tomas if it was Tomas doing the killing?



Again, look back on the image I posted of the Enenra earlier. The shape of an arm and a head are visible in both images. It's clearly an Enenra attacking the cult, which is proven by the narrator twice. The narrator says outright Tomas returned as an Enenra, lashed out with rage and killed them. He then reiterates this point when he says "his murder avenged, he returned to his human form". The slideshow for his ending even shows the Enenra phasing back into a human.






As answered above, he murdered them as a shapeless form. Once they were dead, he's visible as an Enenra.



Or, it could just be as the narrator explains and be the case that Smoke returned as an Enenra and killed them all.



Do all spirits show themselves in sacrifices now or is this new information to me? If that's the case what's stopping a bunch of Parapsychologists conducting a sacrifice to the devil with a goat and a camera for proof? That arguement is clasping at straws.



Technically, he was a child being sacrificed, not a man. Japanese Mythology states only the pure of heart can see an Enenra, it's not known how one becomes one, and until NRS gives a significant answer as to how the sacrifice resulted in him becoming an Enenra, it's all theory and speculation. Your still not answering my questions though. I've asked you already why NRS would fail to explain it's presence if it was truly an observant outsider.



It is indeed weird. Can you provide evidence to the fact you've made this claim before, perhaps even show an old post where you've made this speculation? As memory serves I can't recall you doing so, though I may be wrong. The only thing I'm arguing against is the fact that you believe your perspective on the ending is an actual fact when the evidence in his ending clearly states otherwise. Perhaps if you were less inclined to scold others for getting their facts wrong I wouldn't be arguing my point so thoroughly.



I never said I wanted him to be a sub-boss. I merely stated that he's gotten the potential to be demonised further with Quan Chi's magic, perhaps becoming more of an Enenra than Human. It's an opportunity they can easily explore now that he's down in the Nether Realm.

The camera shows the images of the clouds killing the cultists all by itself.

THEN, the camera pulls back so that the clouds killing the cultists is in the distance and the big gray monster is in the foreground and to the right. And it holds there for quite a while, which makes that image a scene of its own and not a transition.

So at no point did I lie about my screenshot being a true picture of something that happens in the ending.



Y'know what? It's NOT clearly visible to me. I do not see the clouds connecting to the monster's body, man. There's potential empty space between them.

I see BLACK under those green lines you've drawn, and while some of it is the clouds, some is the BACKGROUND, which is also black, like the clouds are.



A quick search at least turned up one thread where I said it back in June of last year:

http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=136890

I don't really feel like digging any more but I feel certain I've posted it at least one or two other times too.



I did answer that in my last post. My answer is that I feel its presence IS explained by the scenario. They're sacrificing a dude to a demon, something noteworthy happens during the sacrifice, why wouldn't you see an image of the demon looming ominously over the scene in some fashion? It's to be expected.

What's NOT explained, an argument you and Nephrite have fallen back on, is the idea that an Enenra needn't be "shapeless" 24/7, that it can turn solid when the killing is done...which is a guess that I do not believe the text supports.

Now that's another thing I want to address then. Oddly enough, you gave a full response with whopping nine quotes to my first page messages here, but suddenly when I responded to all of your arguments, you couldn't understand a thing? Perhaps you should practise your English then because Nephrite, who is from Croatia, fully understood my core message and you are American. Maybe it's because you're not open to opposing views or just are not willing to accept them publicly.
You may want to further explain what you mean by these "Ultimate Warrior promos" because the only thing that differentiates them from typical posts are the colors, oftentimes elaborate grammar, perhaps humor amid the "boring" text and a few pictures. But they are for the readers. It's nicer to read messages that have a couple of befitting pictures that work as milestones simultaneously, and it's not out of this world to do that. How is it a bad thing? Otherwise I don't know have an idea what you're hearing.
Don't turn it on me. Even now you posted just a small paragraph and edited it for like four times at least. That's common you. How is that a good thing? Looking at your visit count, you should know these. Considering how nitpicky you can sometimes be, why don't you mention about the broken sentences then? I'm always open to grammar Nazis (when there's no hidden agenda!). Now, can you speak Swedish, Finnish, German, French or anything aside English or Klingon for that matter? Admittedly, I know only the basics of German and French but you may need to understand that in a case where I write something important and there's a broken sentence, it doesn't help anyone to overlook it. That is, if you seek for the truth. As for the etymology topic, I told that we should focus in what is essential. Right there you were doing it again: derailing the thread. The language card you're using is pretty low in my case.
Do you think that you yourself are perfect? That no cynicism has spread in you? Now that you brought it up, your posts are for the most part very plain: well, hell, lol, y'know, fucking, dude, like etc. Did I mention well? Moreover, your grammar isn't perfect either. For one, you in fact write "2 cents" in normal text because numbers 0-10, 20, 30...90, 100, 1000 and so on are written in letters. English is your first language, right? If there is something dramatic you cannot understand in any of my previous posts in this thread, and you think you didn't get the point, bring them here now.
RazorsEdge701 = Liar
What comes to the evidence, you cannot revolve around your own premise solely in an argument. I have already given my response to your argument and brought many times more evidence. If your logic is "I have 2 evidences more than U!" then you're badly distracted. It's ironic that this one picture is your only premise as well. The question is: why won't you go through the messages I just posted and tell us why couldn't they be right?
I didn't even nitpick for all the things in this thread. "Well now who's guilty for nostalgia?" for instance was an irrational question because I didn't accuse anyone of being nostalgic, just stated it, which you by a hard way approved, too. Then you were bitching about why Cyber Smoke wasn't in MK9, whereas this is the only game ever where Smoke is playable but isn't a cyborg. It's just a palette-swap. But that's all unessential now.
Unless you're able to prove the Enenra premises not possible, you have no reason to repeat that bullshit over again. Don't turn it on my grammar.

Smoke was a sub-boss in Mortal Kombat: Deception and Unchained. Also, ignorance isn't the definition of intelligence as far as I know. You have already lost the debate by the way, you're just trying to build a shield now by starting the argument anew. Expect different treatment in future.

I'm DYING to throw two cents in on this, I've written up like three separate responses already and then proceeded to delete them all, because the logical and sensible aspects of my personality are SCREAMING at me, "DON'T DO IT! DO NOT GET PULLED INTO MORE OF RAZOR'S BULL****!"

Suffice it to say: Other guys. You're right, and everything you're saying makes sense... but you will never break through that barrier. You will never climb that hill. Turn back now, before you're ripping your own hair out in clumps.

There are plenty of other people on these boards that have been around just as long and know just as much about Mortal Kombat. I assure you. It's not that people who are knowledgeable in MK lore don't exist, or that people who can talk and trade theories intelligently leave... it's that eventually they all run afoul of one of his opinions, it turns into a situation not unlike the one we have right here... and then we all learn that it's better to just avoid discussing... well... anything. With him.

He is the lord of all tricks and the prince of all lies. He will criticize your argumentative tactics, and then employ identical ones. Any time you corner him in an argument, he will ignore your good sense and accuse you of being senseless. He will never acknowledge that his opinions are not fact, and he will never consider that his assumptions could be wrong. At least not without a qualifying, "maybe" or some other sort of asterisk attached. He may pretend to give a little sometimes... but it's just a ruse to lull you into a false sense of security... before he slaps you with a complete and utter lack of reason.

There's an old saying, it's usually attributed to Einstein, though I'm not 100% positive that's accurate, but anyway, it goes something along the lines of, "Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."

Very poignant to the situation if you ask me.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to be trying VERY hard not to contribute any further to this discussion, for all the reasons I outlined above. I can only hope my warnings escape his gaze... and his focus stays trained on the rest of you... because I should sorely like to resist any further discussion with him about... well, again... anything.

I'll be doing my best to ignore this thread from here on out, and I'd advise any Mortal Kombat fan who wishes to keep his sanity do likewise.

May the Elder Gods have mercy on us all.

I just take issue with the fact the man prides himself in being known as "The Story Guy" and will happily demean and belittle other posters for getting the story muddled, yet refuses to consider or acknowledge facts only unless it suits him.

I'm sorry Razor if this seems like a personal attack but there have been countless incidents I've seen in the last year where you've gone to town on other members on this forum for getting simple facts wrong. At any given opportunity you'll slate and ridicule other members for misunderstanding the canon and making assumptions, yet that's exactly what your doing now. I can even recall you losing it at zmoke once before for quoting the canon wrong and you retorted with a something along the lines of "It just pisses me off when people come here looking for facts about the characters and the game and people purposely give them wrong facts." Your doing the exact same thing now.

Whilst normally I'd overlook that sort of attitude, the whole "I'm the story guy, I've assumed this, so I'm right and the rest of you are all disappointments and stupid" doesn't wash well with me. I don't like being called stupid from a man who doesn't understand it himself. Even when faced with evidence or an arguement that challenges your own you seem completely incapable of accepting other people's views or taking them into consideration. What were to happen if a new member joined and took all your musings as gospel? Your opinion doesn't instantly equate to fact. Especially in this case when there's evidence to contradict it.

This thread was about why Cyborg Smoke wasn't in MK9, and people stated their cases as to why they felt he wasn't/or should be included. Disagreeing with you doesn't make them "wrong".

Y'know, there's plenty of people who can debate me and win. ...Or there were. Most of them aren't here anymore...I particularly miss Garlador. He didn't get all bitter at the end like XD did. Is he posting somewhere else now, like, did he find a new place to host those character of the week things?

Well, Shadaloo's still here. Queve's around sometimes. I could think of a few others if I spent more time on it.

The trick is evidence. I like facts. I will concede to facts. Sometimes it's simply a case of reminding me of something that had slipped my mind, but I respect the users who've successfully dropped knowledge on me that I missed, I enjoy it.

But the problem with this particular argument is a matter of vaguaries and I just don't think the pictures look like the smoke is coming from the monster and the text outright says enenras aren't solid.

Two things I'll point out about that last sentence.



Well then Razor that would make it your opinion that the toothed figure in his ending is not Smoke himself. Your opinion is not an actual canon fact unless proven otherwise by the developers, so you've no reason to state it as such. Especially since myself and other members have all noticed the smoke trail leading back to the Enenra in the ending video only moments after the narrator explains that Smoke took his revenge by killing the cult.

and...



That's not a direct quote from the narrative though. It says that Enenra's are creatures of smoke and vapour, and it says Smoke took his avenge in a shapeless form. It never confirms or denies that Enenra's can even become solid, so it's easily a possibility that it could become solid at will. Which I imagine it could if it was capable of returning to a human form.

I never fuckin' did!
If this is where you're coming from with all the accusations, then you've twisted my words and that's your problem. I was always arguing from the position of "Maybe what you see is different, but this is what I'm seeing and this is the only way it makes sense to me", not "NRS came out and said it's a separate monster". If NRS DID come out and say, it'd be a way shorter argument, don'tcha think?

I said that what's happening in the picture, i.e. that the smoke and the monster don't appear to be touching or connected, is "obvious" to me.

That ain't the same thing as confirmed canon.

I ALSO clearly said that since the smoke and the background are both black, NRS has terrible writers, and the artist should have drawn the monster looking misty instead of with solid flesh, there's three separate ways I could be seeing the scene wrong.
But seriously..."it doesn't say Enenras can't turn solid when they're done being shapeless"? You're really gonna make that the foundation for your whole argument? You can't claim the absence of evidence is evidence, man. All I'm saying is the text says they're creatures of mist and the picture doesn't show a creature made of mist, it shows a creature with solid flesh. If they wanted to get across the idea that the smoke and the monster are one and the same, they either should've written it better or drawn it better, because it looks and reads to me like the monster is watching Smoke kill the cultists.

Trying to disprove an opinion is like waiting for a ship at the airport.

This shit got nuts in a hurry.