Liu Kang = Onaga?

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:24 PM (UTC) •

This is a spoiler so don't read unless you really want to. This is Liu's MK9 ending.

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
LIU KANG:

Having defeated Shao Kahn, Liu Kang believed he was the only one capable of defending Earthrealm against outside threats.

During the invasion Raiden had been more burden than ally. Brazenly he demanded the Elder Gods grant him the thunder god’s status. In a one-match Mortal Kombat tournament, Liu Kang defeated his former friend and mentor. Liu Kang's request was granted. He was made a god–the new Protector of Earthrealm.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:26 PM (UTC) •

That doesn't have anything to do with his origin story, nor is it even likely to end up being canon in the next game, so how is it relevant to this conversation?
And no, a Scorpion that's "bent on destroying everything" was not cool. It was literally the MOST non-cool thing in all of Armageddon, a game full of many not-cool things.

Icebaby

@Icebaby

•03/15/2011 05:28 PM (UTC) •

asmodeus Wrote:
This is a spoiler so don't read unless you really want to. This is Liu's MK9 ending.

The only ending I'll take a quick peak at... Yeah, I would like to see where they're going to go if this was canon. I hope it is, seems like an interesting ending finally for good ole' Liu Kang.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:29 PM (UTC) •

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
The script is vague about it, but Liu MAY have died in story mode.

Which would make that ending completely impossible.

Shadaloo

@Shadaloo

About Me

MK Khronology: 58.49% complete...

•03/15/2011 05:42 PM (UTC) •

With what they've done to a certain other hero in this game - I've read the bios and endings, but not anything story mode-related - I have to say I'm against this. A big part of the Earthrealm warriors' appeal for me was the fact that they were struggling against these alien forces, these impossible odds, but they were chosen because they were literally the best Earth had to offer. Giving everyone supernatural ancestry tarnishes that for me. An interesting theory, but no thanks.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:42 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
That doesn't have anything to do with his origin story, nor is it even likely to end up being canon in the next game, so how is it relevant to this conversation?

Something changed with Liu. Canon or not, THAT isn't typical liu kang right there. How your able to so easily cast this info aside is strange to me.

A person's character is determined by many things including the circumstances in which they were born and how they were raised. the liu in MK9 must some how be different from the MK1 liu as they have completely different out comes of the same incident, or do you think that liu just changed his mind on some whim.

This conversation from the begining has always been about, WHAT IF Liu Kang found out he was somehow connected to Onaga. What do you think would be different?

That ending is one potential difference.

let me remind you that while an MK ending may not be canon, it doesn't rule out the possibility that a character could act that way. Especially in the later games.

Haviks MKD ending didn't come true, but it doesn't change the fact that he wanted to resurrected the thought deceased Shao Kahn.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:51 PM (UTC) •

asmodeus Wrote:
Something changed with Liu. Canon or not, THAT isn't typical liu kang right there.

Noooo, something changed with Raiden, and Liu responded accordingly.

Did you read the story mode script or just the endings?

-Brad-

@-Brad-

•03/15/2011 05:53 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
This is your problem right here. In your head, people can only be special if they were born that way, I guess? If they have something special in their bloodline? That's bullshit. "Shaolin monks use chi" IS a perfect context for a man who shoots fire and turns into a form that looks like the avatar of his gods.
Adding anything more than that is needlessly convoluted.
Another thing, you keep thinking "He turns into a dragon...that means Dragon King!" What you're not thinking about is, they're not even the same kinds of dragon. Onaga has wings and a man-shaped body. The kind of dragon Liu turns into is the long serpent kind like in the MK logo. The kind the Elder Gods look like in their true forms.
But hey, while we're overcomplicating peoples' origin stories and saying they're not the source of their own powers, why not say Nightwolf's ancestors were werewolves? Werewolves with Green Lantern rings!
And Sonya's dad was Oberon, King of the Faeries, that's where she gets the pixie dust for her Kiss of Death from.
And Kano's parents were circus performers, that's why he's a human cannonball. And Stryker doesn't have an infinite supply of grenades just because he's a cop, he has them because he inherited a giant munitions factory from his rich uncle Steve!
Here's a fun thought experiment: Let's say Kung Lao didn't get his powers to spin and teleport and make his hat reappear out of thin air by chi. Let's say The Great Kung Lao could do all those things and it runs in the family...well where did the Great Kung Lao get his power, then? Who did he inherit it from, eh? He was awesome enough to defeat Shang Tsung, what made him so great? He was a Shaolin Monk, just like Liu Kang and the current Kung Lao are. Sooner or later, you have to deal with normal humans having awesome potential all on their own and not being the sons of wizards or dragons.

This applies a lot to the way I think.
With Chi, I think it's perfectly acceptable to Liu Kang, as Eastern mythology often depicts some form of chi. In real life, Chi is real, it just doesn't come out as fireballs. It's more an inner aura.
I actually like the idea of Liu Kang's dragon being derived from the Elder Gods, or rather the "Chosen One" being connected to the Elder Gods.
Nightwolf's long been told to be highly trained in the spiritual world, and that opens the door to the supernatural.
I don't believe Jax and Sonya have chi, rather it looks like highly advanced technology. A moment that embodies this is in MKvsDC, Lex Luthor is staring awe-struck at the portal in the Special Force's base, and Jax blows it off that "It's a portal." very sarcasticly. In the same sense it's not special at all. Sonya also is confused when Liu Kang mentions Chi.
Kano's cannonball is going to be tougher to analyse, especially in MK1. But later on when Kano's goes and stays in Outworld, it opens more possibilities. Bo Rai Cho is known to teach mortal man anti-gravity moves, for more training, maybe a counterpart teacher for Shao Kahn's soldiers was used. Similar difficulty with Sonya's square wave move, but it would makes sense Bo Rai Cho trained her at some point.
Dealing with Kung Lao, I've been thinking about this before, Kung Lao has a strong connection to Fujin in Armageddon, and his moves are very similar. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibly that Fujin granted Kung Lao some of his powers, like the air-dive kick and teleport.
Am I pointlessly overcomplicating it? Probably.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:53 PM (UTC) •

Shadaloo Wrote:
With what they've done to a certain other hero in this game - I've read the bios and endings, but not anything story mode-related - I have to say I'm against this. A big part of the Earthrealm warriors' appeal for me was the fact that they were struggling against these alien forces, these impossible odds, but they were chosen because they were literally the best Earth had to offer. Giving everyone supernatural ancestry tarnishes that for me. An interesting theory, but no thanks.

you know, I have to agree with you. that is the exact reasoning why I don't like johnny's MK9 bio, and why if they did the same to say jax or sonya I'd be up in arms. but Liu is different to me.

Why?

Because he is the chosen one.

He needs a hook, whether it be a connection to Onaga, or some other thing. RazorsEdge701says he's an avatar of the gods, either way, he's something more than a man who happened to be just good enough. Liu has always been about destiny.

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:56 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

asmodeus Wrote:
Something changed with Liu. Canon or not, THAT isn't typical liu kang right there.

Noooo, something changed with Raiden, and Liu responded accordingly.

Did you read the story mode script or just the endings?

just the endings.

I'm smiling ear to ear now. Don't spoil anything.

Is Dark Raiden making an appearance in MK1-3?

About Me

•03/15/2011 05:57 PM (UTC) •

asmodeus Wrote:

He needs a hook

He HAS a hook! He was trained by the greatest secret sect of mystical martial artists in Earthrealm (AND the greatest teacher in Outworld AND the God of Thunder!) What part of that isn't enough for you? I just don't get how you don't seem to know how special the Shaolin order is.

asmodeus Wrote:
just the endings.

I'm smiling ear to ear now. Don't spoil anything.

Is Dark Raiden making an appearance in MK1-3?

Let's just say it's not what you're thinking but Liu does have a good reason to go against Raiden that is not a change of character for him. Honestly, when you find out the real answer, it will probably disappoint you.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:06 PM (UTC) •

-Brad- Wrote:

In a way I feel you are. Like RE said chi could manifest itself in a multitude of ways. Each kombatant is different because of their skills and how they use them. Kung COULD have a wind affinity and with proper training be able to call upon that inner power. All the MK fighters COULD be on that same level. But NONE of the games EVER go into this.

It would be freaking sweet if they did.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:09 PM (UTC) •

I'd like Sonya and Jax's special powers to be tech instead of talent too...but as it stands, Jax DID have moves BEFORE his metal arms and Sonya is shooting rings withOUT a fancy wrist gadget as part of her costume, much to my dismay.

So it seems we're supposed to take it for granted that their military training is so high-intensity, they've developed chi talents without even knowing what Chi is.

Rather like how...if you've ever seen The Animatrix, one of the shorts is about a track runner who tries SO hard to beat the world record, that he actually runs faster than should be humanly possible and briefly wakes up out of the Matrix all on his own.
It's all force of will. Jax's MK2 bio says he's "the strongest man in the world". Does that look like the body of the world's strongest man to you? Those muscles seem pretty much "any ordinary body builder" to me. So what makes Jax the strongest? What allows him to swing his arm so hard that purple shockwaves travel through the air? Somehow, he's such a dedicated workout nut, he tapped into his inner potential.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:14 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

asmodeus Wrote:

He needs a hook

asmodeus Wrote:
just the endings.

I'm smiling ear to ear now. Don't spoil anything.

Is Dark Raiden making an appearance in MK1-3?

What is not enough is the fact of how powerful shao kahn is. no amount of training can close that gap.

I can buy kang defeating Tsung, to a degree even Goro, but Kahn? Kahn is godlike in his own right. It is kinda why I hate the fact that raiden can so easily be bested by other MK warriors. He's a freaking god! how can any other fighter who isn't Kahn even challenge him.

In MK3, there is a lot of leeway given due to the invasion and all that, but any other time is unacceptable.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:20 PM (UTC) •

There are ways in which to weaken Shao Kahn. His power comes from the realms he has merged into Outworld and the souls of those realms.

If, say, Kitana and Sindel freed Edenia before the end of MK3, then Shao Kahn would be weaker during his final fight...which by the way was a two on one affair, he was taking on Liu Kang and Kung Lao at the same time. Liu just happened to strike the final blow after Kung was injured.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:25 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I'd like Sonya and Jax's special powers to be tech instead of talent too...but as it stands, Jax DID have moves BEFORE his metal arms and Sonya is shooting rings withOUT a fancy wrist gadget as part of her costume, much to my dismay.

So it seems we're supposed to take it for granted that their military training is so high-intensity, they've developed chi talents without even knowing what Chi is.

Rather like how...if you've ever seen The Animatrix, one of the shorts is about a track runner who tries SO hard to beat the world record, that he actually runs faster than should be humanly possible and briefly wakes up out of the Matrix all on his own.

It's all force of will. Jax's MK2 bio says he's "the strongest man in the world". Does that look like the body of the world's strongest man to you? Those muscles seem pretty much "any ordinary body builder" to me. So what makes Jax the strongest? What allows him to swing his arm so hard that purple shockwaves travel through the air? Somehow, he's such a dedicated workout nut, he tapped into his inner potential.

A lot of what came out of MK1's gameplay and to an extent some of 2 and 3's, I don't think should be take literally. MK1 was so low tech they couldn't depict most of the details they wanted to.

I think in subsequent games they tried to basically retcon Sonya's and Jax's projectile moves to tech related. Jax's earthquake and sonya's bicycle kick are different stories.

I think Jax's ground pound is why he got the title he did, and Sonya's bicycle kick was stated somewhere as being somewhat on the same level as Kang's.

But I'm following where you are going.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:30 PM (UTC) •

asmodeus Wrote:

I'm talking about this game. Sonya's not wearing anything on her wrists in her costume and Jax starts story mode the same way he did in the original MK2, he doesn't have his arms yet and he gets them later on. But he'll probably still have all his special moves. In fact, that's probably why they gave him the arm waves as his projectile in this game instead of the missiles. Missiles need bionic arms to be shot out of, but part of the game (and probably his alt costume) he's human-armed.

Icebaby

@Icebaby

•03/15/2011 06:31 PM (UTC) •

I'm sure most of you guys have read the endings already for these characters.

Without spoiling it for me just saying "yes" or "no," is Kung Lao getting anything done to him that will make him more of an interesting character? This guy really hasn't done anything, except for being what some users here, as the MK Zorro... which I truly believe is true.

Does his story/ending make him have anything good coming for him? Because I remember how so many people wanted this guy to be the chosen one for the longest time when there was heard that things are going to change for him.

Sure, this thread isn't really being concerned with Kung Lao, but I've been seeing his name pop up here and there.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:35 PM (UTC) •

Icebaby Wrote:
Without spoiling it for me just saying "yes" or "no," is Kung Lao getting anything done to him that will make him more of an interesting character?

No. You're probably going to be extremely let down. I don't think telling you this would qualify as much of a spoiler: He's exactly the same as he was in Shaolin Monks, and he's barely in the game at all.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:39 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
There are ways in which to weaken Shao Kahn. His power comes from the realms he has merged into Outworld and the souls of those realms.

If, say, Kitana and Sindel freed Edenia before the end of MK3, then Shao Kahn would be weaker during his final fight...which by the way was a two on one affair, he was taking on Liu Kang and Kung Lao at the same time. Liu just happened to strike the final blow after Kung was injured.

I don't think it was ever really stated how MK3's final moments went down, but I like to believe that Kang and Lao did fight together only to still be completely out classed. After Kung went down, Kang's rage flaired and only then was he able to pull off a victory.

Edenia wasn't freed until after MK3 but before MK4. The only thing supernatural that was going on was the merger of outworld and earth.

I think it was MKDA or maybe MKD that stated that Kahn, even without being on the battle field, could used his power to strengthen his forces (similar to Onaga). That as well COULD have been a strain on him, but other than that Kahn was ready and willing.

Icebaby

@Icebaby

•03/15/2011 06:40 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

Icebaby Wrote:
Without spoiling it for me just saying "yes" or "no," is Kung Lao getting anything done to him that will make him more of an interesting character?

I wouldn't say I'd be extremely let down, but as a character that was in one of the very few first trailers that really made people jump out of their seats, I thought he'd have at least some sort of excitement happening with this guy with the stories and endings... Even in SM, he was so dull and boring.

I should have expected, such a cool character that just hardly gets the attention.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:41 PM (UTC) •

asmodeus Wrote:
Edenia wasn't freed until after MK3 but before MK4. The only thing supernatural that was going on was the merger of outworld and earth.

That's not really true, Liu Kang's ending (which is canon because Liu did win) established that Edenia had been freed from the merger at the same time Earth had.

Now, the ORIGINAL reason for this is because Edenia was not established to be a seperate realm until MKDA. In every game before that, Edenia was what Outworld was called before Shao Kahn had conquered it, it had simply once been a beautiful world and then Kahn showed up and turned it into a wasteland. So when Shao Kahn was defeated (and supposed to be dead in MK3 and 4), it allowed Kitana and Sindel to take over the realm and fix it back up.

So Kitana thanked Liu for setting her world free because he killed the evil king.

But then in DA they decided "Wait, we still want to have an Outworld to tell stories about. So let's say Outworld and Edenia are two separate realms and Edenia was set free at the end of MK3! Oh and Kahn isn't dead yet, that way the Deadly Alliance can be the ones to kill him. (and then they retconned THAT death too lol)"

But as far as what happened after you take all the retcons into account...canonically, Edenia was set free at the end of MK3. It PROBABLY had something to do with the fact that Sindel was set free from Kahn's mind control. It's also possibly related to one of those orbs like the one Nitara breaks to set HER realm free, because MKDA said that every realm merged with Outworld gets one of those orbs of their own.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:45 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I'm talking about this game. Sonya's not wearing anything on her wrists in her costume and Jax starts story mode the same way he did in the original MK2, he doesn't have his arms yet and he gets them later on. But he'll probably still have all his special moves. In fact, that's probably why they gave him the arm waves as his projectile in this game instead of the missiles. Missiles need bionic arms to be shot out of, but part of the game (and probably his alt costume) he's human-armed.

I saw a pic of sonya but not jax yet. but yeah maybe.

About Me

•03/15/2011 06:47 PM (UTC) •

Well I haven't seen a picture of his bare-armed alt costume yet either. I'm just saying, the script makes specific mention of when and why he gets his bionics, and his chapter of story mode takes place before that, during the MK2 portion of the story, so he'll be playable and have all his special moves before he gets his arms.