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Chilly-McFreeze
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People say I'm strange, but that's ok because their brain smells like bacon. [XBL - DOKTOR ALUCARD]

06/15/2010 08:19 PM (UTC)
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Ermac has MPD (multiple personality disorder)
and being made of many many people

Hell, whose to say he can just shit his motives all ready all over the place?

Just going with the dominant personality at the time...then when that changes
he does different things.
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Historical Favorite
06/15/2010 08:21 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
OptimusGrime Wrote:
Kano. It's always bothered me that Kano is a mercenary and that the heroes never thought to pay him to fight with them.


I imagine Sonya would have a problem with that, their rivalry supposedly being personal and all.


But what's more important? Having an extra hand on deck while you're fighting to save the entire goddamn world, or some personal grudge?
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 08:22 PM (UTC)
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OptimusGrime Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
OptimusGrime Wrote:
Kano. It's always bothered me that Kano is a mercenary and that the heroes never thought to pay him to fight with them.


I imagine Sonya would have a problem with that, their rivalry supposedly being personal and all.


But what's more important? Having an extra hand on deck while you're fighting to save the entire goddamn world, or some personal grudge?


Knowing Sonya? It'd be 50/50.
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Chilly-McFreeze
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About Me

People say I'm strange, but that's ok because their brain smells like bacon. [XBL - DOKTOR ALUCARD]

06/15/2010 08:22 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
OptimusGrime Wrote:
Kano. It's always bothered me that Kano is a mercenary and that the heroes never thought to pay him to fight with them.


I imagine Sonya would have a problem with that, their rivalry supposedly being personal and all.


Then Sonya will leave the room in a huff and there's an awkward silence.
then Bo Rai Cho can fart and everyone laughs.
*roll credits*
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06/15/2010 08:26 PM (UTC)
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Chilly-McFreeze Wrote:

Then Sonya will leave the room in a huff and there's an awkward silence.
then Bo Rai Cho can fart and everyone laughs.
*roll credits*


No freeze frame?

Also, Sonya leaving in a huff could lead to an awesome story where she and Kano essentially swap allegiances. Evil Sonya would be so badass.
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ErmacMk5
06/15/2010 08:47 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
While there aren't a lot of characters who I'd want to see changing alignments, I am sick of one character who isn't evil being mistakenly identified as evil:

Scorpion is not a god damned villain.

Even when he's neutral and only out for himself, his agenda is usually righteous. In MK1, the bad guy in their story was Sub-Zero, not him. The Older Sub-Zero was a self-centered douchebag with nearly the same personality as Kano. Sure, Scorp briefly worked for the badguys in MK3 and 4, but he was more or less manipulated into that position and always figures out he's being played or the villains are in the wrong and switches sides at the end.

That's why I liked him as Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception. The way Shaolin Monks and Armageddon portrayed him, in contrast, was utter bullshit.


Scorpion isn't a good man, a holy man, or a righteous man. He's a damned soul. He was an assassin in life, and when he died, he went to hell.

While I agree Anti-Hero is more his thing, he's been cast as a straight up moustache twirling villain in enough games that I'd call him a villain over a hero. He's been willing to betray his former homeworld in order to get revenge; that isn't righteous. That's the epitome of self-centeredness; ultimately all Scorpion cares about is himself...his family and clan is an extension of that.
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 08:49 PM (UTC)
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
While there aren't a lot of characters who I'd want to see changing alignments, I am sick of one character who isn't evil being mistakenly identified as evil:

Scorpion is not a god damned villain.

Even when he's neutral and only out for himself, his agenda is usually righteous. In MK1, the bad guy in their story was Sub-Zero, not him. The Older Sub-Zero was a self-centered douchebag with nearly the same personality as Kano. Sure, Scorp briefly worked for the badguys in MK3 and 4, but he was more or less manipulated into that position and always figures out he's being played or the villains are in the wrong and switches sides at the end.

That's why I liked him as Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception. The way Shaolin Monks and Armageddon portrayed him, in contrast, was utter bullshit.


Scorpion isn't a good man, a holy man, or a righteous man. He's a damned soul. He was an assassin in life, and when he died, he went to hell.

While I agree Anti-Hero is more his thing, he's been cast as a straight up moustache twirling villain in enough games that I'd call him a villain over a hero. He's been willing to betray his former homeworld in order to get revenge; that isn't righteous. That's the epitome of self-centeredness; ultimately all Scorpion cares about is himself...his family and clan is an extension of that.


Scorpion was an assassin because he needed the money to take care of his family. When he died and went to Hell, part of the reason he made the vow to avenge himself and his family/clan was to get his "honor" back and rest in peace, as in, earn his way to Heaven.
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ErmacMk5
06/15/2010 09:05 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
ErmacMk5 Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
While there aren't a lot of characters who I'd want to see changing alignments, I am sick of one character who isn't evil being mistakenly identified as evil:

Scorpion is not a god damned villain.

Even when he's neutral and only out for himself, his agenda is usually righteous. In MK1, the bad guy in their story was Sub-Zero, not him. The Older Sub-Zero was a self-centered douchebag with nearly the same personality as Kano. Sure, Scorp briefly worked for the badguys in MK3 and 4, but he was more or less manipulated into that position and always figures out he's being played or the villains are in the wrong and switches sides at the end.

That's why I liked him as Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception. The way Shaolin Monks and Armageddon portrayed him, in contrast, was utter bullshit.


Scorpion isn't a good man, a holy man, or a righteous man. He's a damned soul. He was an assassin in life, and when he died, he went to hell.

While I agree Anti-Hero is more his thing, he's been cast as a straight up moustache twirling villain in enough games that I'd call him a villain over a hero. He's been willing to betray his former homeworld in order to get revenge; that isn't righteous. That's the epitome of self-centeredness; ultimately all Scorpion cares about is himself...his family and clan is an extension of that.


Scorpion was an assassin because he needed the money to take care of his family. When he died and went to Hell, part of the reason he made the vow to avenge himself and his family/clan was to get his "honor" back and rest in peace, as in, earn his way to Heaven.


Big deal. I need money to take care of my family; but I don't go killing people for a living. Scorpion obviously cared about his family, but that doesn't make him a good man. It's easy to care about someone who loves you, the really difficulty is to care for the well being of someone who doesn't.

MK1 made it sound quite the opposite; that by taking revenge on the Elder Sub-Zero that Scorpion would "Never know his family again." Also, as MK4 implies, Scorpion was willing to help a fallen elder God and an oni sorcerer overthrow the realms in exchange for a chance to gain revenge on his rival; no man of chivalry would do that.

Scorpion is a self-centered baby.
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XiahouDun84
06/15/2010 09:11 PM (UTC)
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Because everyone knows good guys are not allowed to have any flaws, conflicts, or moments of weakness.
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 09:20 PM (UTC)
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
Big deal. I need money to take care of my family; but I don't go killing people for a living.


Are you the son of a ninja living in a village of ninjas? No? Then maybe you should take that into account when judging the career choice of someone who is.

ErmacMk5 Wrote:
It's easy to care about someone who loves you, the really difficulty is to care for the well being of someone who doesn't.


What does that even mean? Good and Evil aren't a lightswitch where the only two choices in life are "Save the world" and "Destroy/Take over the world." I never said Scorpion should be like Liu Kang. What I said are that his reasons for doing things are completely justified, and it's out of character to make him attack Liu Kang and Kung Lao when they happen to be strolling by in Hell, just because you need a boss fight and he's a popular character.

ErmacMk5 Wrote:
MK1 made it sound quite the opposite; that by taking revenge on the Elder Sub-Zero that Scorpion would "Never know his family again."


The completely non-canon ending from MK1 ALSO implies that his family are STILL ALIVE. It wasn't added to his story that they were killed too until Mythologies/MK4.

ErmacMk5 Wrote:
Also, as MK4 implies, Scorpion was willing to help a fallen elder God and an oni sorcerer overthrow the realms in exchange for a chance to gain revenge on his rival; no man of chivalry would do that.


As I already pointed out, he was manipulated into that position and rebelled against it at the end when he found out Quan Chi had been using and lying to him all along.

Scorpion's not evil, he's neutral or an "antihero". Like Spawn or the Punisher, a man with good intentions who does bad things to bad people. And he cares about honor, so if he ever realized doing "the right thing" is more honorable than revenge, he'd be a hero.
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XiahouDun84
06/15/2010 09:24 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Scorpion's not evil, he's neutral or an "antihero". Like Spawn or the Punisher, a man with good intentions who does bad things to bad people. And he cares about honor, so if he ever realized doing "the right thing" is more honorable than revenge, he'd be a hero.

Barring, of course, Armageddon...where ol' Hanzo seems to have officially let his marbles roll into traffic.
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 09:29 PM (UTC)
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Yes, well...Armageddon was just like Shaolin Monks, yet another case of:

"We want Scorpion to be a boss fight for no other reason than Scorpion is cool and popular."

"But why would he attack (The Good Guys)?"

~Insert Half-Assing it Here~

It's not like anybody else had a good reason for attacking Taven either. (I'm looking at you, Fujin.)
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ErmacMk5
06/15/2010 09:37 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Yes, well...Armageddon was just like Shaolin Monks, yet another case of:

"We want Scorpion to be a boss fight for no other reason than Scorpion is cool and popular."

"But why would he attack (The Good Guys)?"

~Insert Half-Assing it Here~

It's not like anybody else had a good reason for attacking Taven either. (I'm looking at you, Fujin.)


What Taven was doing as a God of Edenia was essentially invading Earthrealm and attacking it's citizens. Of course Fujin would have a problem with that.

You have still failed to address the fact that Punisher and Spawn wouldn't put an entire planet in jeopardy to get revenge. Scorpion is not a guy who does bad things to bad people, he's a guy who is willing to do bad things to ANYONE in order to satisfy his lust for revenge.
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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 09:44 PM (UTC)
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
What Taven was doing as a God of Edenia was essentially invading Earthrealm and attacking it's citizens. Of course Fujin would have a problem with that.

Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? The phrase "peanut butter monkey nipples". Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? Punching yourself in the nuts. Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? Cow tipping. I can do this all night. Name something, anything mind-numbingly stupid, I betcha it's less absurd than calling Taven an invader.
Fujin was poorly written to act like a retard just to have a boss fight, and defending it is even more retarded.
ErmacMk5 Wrote:
You have still failed to address the fact that Punisher and Spawn wouldn't put an entire planet in jeopardy to get revenge. Scorpion is not a guy who does bad things to bad people, he's a guy who is willing to do bad things to ANYONE in order to satisfy his lust for revenge.

"In hopes of gaining Scorpion as an ally in the war against the Elder Gods, Quan Chi makes the dead ninja an offer he cannot refuse: life, in exchange for his services as a warrior against the Elders. Scorpion accepts, but hides under ulterior motives."

Things conveyed by this bio:

- Serving villains is way more attractive than being in Hell for eternity. OBVIOUSLY.

- Scorpion is not actually committed to the cause.

Things you're forgetting by paying attention only to the bio:

- SCORPION TURNS AGAINST QUAN CHI.
- Him dragging Quan Chi back to hell is almost the entire reason the bad guys lose MK4. Quan Chi carrying the amulet is the whole reason they were having any success at all and as soon as he and the amulet were gone, Shinnok lost his power. So Scorpion is the reason Liu Kang won that game.
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Seasrmar
06/15/2010 09:46 PM (UTC)
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Either Noob Saibot or Daegon. I think having two pair of siblings rivalries (Sub-Zero/Noob Saibot and Taven/Daegon) is too redundant. Of the two, I personally think Daegon should turn most and be perhaps the younger brother who see the error if his ways and rejoin Taven to perhaps defeat Rain. Even if this truce is temporally; after defeating Rain, the two brothers are at it again.
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dewey79
06/15/2010 10:09 PM (UTC)
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Baraka isn't a a hero, he's a evil killing maniac!
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ErmacMk5
06/15/2010 10:22 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
ErmacMk5 Wrote:
What Taven was doing as a God of Edenia was essentially invading Earthrealm and attacking it's citizens. Of course Fujin would have a problem with that.


Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? The phrase "peanut butter monkey nipples". Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? Punching yourself in the nuts. Y'know what's less absurd than calling Taven an invader? Cow tipping. I can do this all night. Name something, anything mind-numbingly stupid, I betcha it's less absurd than calling Taven an invader.

Fujin was poorly written to act like a retard just to have a boss fight, and defending it is even more retarded.


If an official from a foreign country came onto U.S. soil and started shooting our criminals, it would be considered terrorism, regardless of what happened. Taven (foreigner) came to our planet (Earth) and started killing people. He had no good answer to give Fujin about why he was doing this. Depending on your beliefs on current continuity (I'm not sure myself as Raiden stepped down as an Elder God in MKDA) Fujin is the God Protectorate of the Earthrealm. That makes him responsible for defending Earth and his people from threats, including a demi-god who's a friend of his.

As for Scorpion, I get that you're a bit of a Scorpion fanboy and that you like to view him as a good guy, but ultimately he's crossed swords with the good guys just as many times as he's helped them.


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RazorsEdge701
06/15/2010 10:26 PM (UTC)
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
Taven (foreigner) came to our planet (Earth) and started killing people. He had no good answer to give Fujin about why he was doing this.


Except he had a perfectly good reason and Fujin was trying to send him home without giving him a chance to explain himself. There was no good reason for that conversation to devolve into a fight, it only did because the developers wanted a fight there and didn't write a strong enough reason for it.
In that instance, Fujin started a completely unnecessary fight by acting like an idiot.
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ErmacMk5
06/15/2010 10:37 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
ErmacMk5 Wrote:
Taven (foreigner) came to our planet (Earth) and started killing people. He had no good answer to give Fujin about why he was doing this.


Except he had a perfectly good reason and Fujin was trying to send him home without giving him a chance to explain himself. There was no good reason for that conversation to devolve into a fight, it only did because the developers wanted a fight there and didn't write a strong enough reason for it.

In that instance, Fujin started a completely unnecessary fight by acting like an idiot.


While I agree that they should've had more of a conversation, I think it's reasonable that in the result of an impasse, that Fujin would have no choice but to fight him.

Now, it's pretty pathetic that the God Protectorate of Earth can get schooled so easily by a Newbie Half-God, but whatever.
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Grizzle
06/19/2010 03:19 PM (UTC)
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The only villain character I can see turning a new leaf and becoming one of the good guys is Reptile. For all of his appearances he secretly just wanted to feel whole again and be with his own kind, Reptile just chose to play for the wrong team in false hopes. That is the tragedy behind that character, Reptile also has issues where his brain can't compute complicated relationships such as betrayal and such. Picture Repltile as a wild dog who gets sent off his leash everytime Shao Kahn and Shang Tsung want something done and one good trait about him which is his ultimate flaw aswell is his sense of blind loyalty, his endings always point out that he wisens up and gets his race back but we never see that happening for him.

The only character I see taking Reptile in is Sindel, she could be the catalyst in changing Reptile for the better and it would be a great dynamic to see his relationship play out with the likes of Jade and Kitana who he tried to kill in MK3 for Shao Kahn.

I don't think Reptile has ever been shown one act of kindness and he is branded by Shao Kahn and probably beaten into submission, having this rehabilitation process in Edenia would essentially change him for the better. I would love to see Earth's warrior's reaction when they have Reptile fighting on their side, and would you think that Raiden would be the one to finally grant him life with his people and restore the realm of Zaterra?
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themasterab
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About Me

Cage always wins, and in MK u will be Caged!

06/19/2010 04:10 PM (UTC)
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Yeah I really thought they went sumwhere with Goro and also given the fact he was the only sub-boss thats good lol every other one was evil or neutral. but yeah i like the idea of reptile finally being good the man jst has a bad story being the big bad guys body guard all the time and besides ud think he'd sumhow be planning for revenge against shao kahn for destroying his homeworld and reptile seeming to be the last of his species. And baraka and mileena nah they jst dont have it in them always bowing down to the bg bad guy like when mileena surrendered to shao kahn when she had edenia to herself in MK:A and when Baraka is always dumb enough to serve the next bad guy its jst a patheic continous story for both of them. As for any other character I dont think they'll change or what not
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TomTaz
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About Me

"Retirement my ass!"

06/19/2010 04:45 PM (UTC)
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Well has anyone thought of this:


With Raiden messing with the time line and all ... (and we all know that most stories in which screwing with time is involved, there are usually serious consequences as a result.) .. that perhaps more than a few loyalties could change?


What if Kitana never rebels against Kahn? (Personally I hope this is not the case as I think Kitana works best in her current role.)

Perhaps Reptile doesn't serve Kahn, and is instead trying to destroy him?

Maybe this time around, it's Mileena who decides to rebel against Kahn... if for no other reason than to gain her freedom from him and do as she pleases. I could see her siding with the Earthrealm warriors to achieve this goal.

It's said that Kang might not have won Mortal Kombat in this new timeline. If he was not killed... Perhaps his lose has made him bitter and he resents the current champion (Who I'm guessing would be Kung Lao.)

And these are only a few scenarios. Point being, the characters that everyone has come to know may be very different this time around. Anything could happen.
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