I dunno, ChrisG even makes Ryu look sick in MvC3, so I wouldn't take CEO too literal as far as Sub's standing.
Good points, though.

Hey ZeroSymbolic7188, I noticed you put Quan Chi as B-class. I don't know if I disagree, but what was your specific reasoning? My next tournament match is against him in the 360 bracket: wondering how scared I should be?

Quan Chi isn't great, but I always forget what kind of range Trance has, and that it also hits a good range in the air, so keep on your toes for that. Good luck in your tourney.

Thanks, bro. That assessment sounds right, but I also gotta double-check the patch notes and make sure NRS didn't give him anything crazy.

Though despite Quan's tier rank, something tells me RedSoul is a pretty good player. Thanks for the luck, cause I'm probably going to need it.

^also be wary of quan chis mix ups. He has a combo that starts with a low attack and is followed by an overhead then can be followed up by trance. He doesn't do much damage but if you repeatedly get caught in his mix ups, it will eventually add up.

I guess the moral of the story is to not let Quan get in. How big of an issue that is really depends on Quan's wake-up options. Smoke's rushdown is actually kinda decent when the opponents wake-up game is limited (EX: Mileena). But if Smoke is against anyone like Ermac or Reptile, he basically has to rely on pokes to win.

Thanks to both of you for the info. I'll go into to the lab and see what I can put together.

Yeah, keep quan chi away, but if you do, watch out for his telestomp. He will use it if you are trying to keep him away.

Quan chi is a tricky fighter in the hands of a good player. If he sees you blocking high, he will use a combo with a low opener. If he sees ou blocking low, he will use the combo with the low hit into the overhead that will catch you if blocking low.

Also I wouldn't rush a downed quan chi. His wake up game mainly consists of the telestomp which is very quick. If you'd like, pretend to rush but block when he gets up. If he does telestomp, you will get a free combo.

Hope that helps. It would be a good idea to go into training mode and fight against quan chi on HARD, not expert. All expert mode does is have the computer read you inputs and then react at super human speed. Hard mode is much more similar to a human fighter. You will get used to his wake ups really good that way.

Some interesting top 10 feedback here. But I'm quite glad that most of us have a fairly similair top ten. I think Microchip made some excellent points particularily concerning Shang Tshung. The thing to keep in mind is that he is not used that effectively YET, which is why he is lower down at the moment on most lists I would imagine.

What I would like is if we can get some more people posting a top 10 here and then after EVO we tally the "votes" and make a aggrigate top 10 and start a tier discussion from there. Let's keep the feedback coming, it's nice that we have threads with more than 3 replies in the Strategy Zone.

PS: Also if someone has good Quan Chi footage pls link. I am also curious (more because I want to smack that bastard around good and proper. Hate him so much)

sorry bout the double post, but fuck it.

Quan Chi is definitely A-Ranked.

He has a shit load of mix-ups. What the good user will do is

B3 3 xx Trance B1 1 xx Telestomp, and this is where it gets good, he will try and mix you up right here with either a B3 1+2 (an over head) or just another B3 3 then another Trance. They will rinse and repeat,

meaning you are going to have to get really good at recognizing the strings.

If you attempt to block high, you will get hit by a low string, and if you block low you will get hit by the overhead string.

What you have to do if you do get caught in the pattern, is to block low after the telestomp and then immediately let go of the down direction and block high. This will ensure that you don't get hit by either the over head string, or the regular low string.

Quan Chi also has an immediate overhead that looks like a kick meaning you will have to recognize and not block low.

This is why Quan Chi is so tricky.

You have to recognize if he is either going to use an overhead or a low string after he telestomps you, and if he does end up getting a string off on you, he will more than likely use EX trance will drain about 1 bar of your meter, and this is really costly especially if you keep getting caught in the pattern and can't use a breaker.

In order to get really good at recognizing these strings, your best bet would be to go into practice mode and actually practice using Quan Chi so you can get used to his strings.

User called KITANA already posted these in MK2011 section, REO playing as Quan Chi against THTB's Reptile, the video quality is not the best though:

Match 1 of 12

Remaining matches can be found on YT as well.



EDIT: Good luck, Temp!

Whoa, that's a great tip. I never play on hard (medium if I'm trying to learn something and expert once I feel I have it down). I will definitley be trying this.

@Nepherite, thanks for the link. I have actually seen that but forgot about it. doh! So much tourney footage, so little time.

If mileena delt the damage she could in the demo she'd easily be A tier. But the nerf she got was pretty ridiculous. The max i can do with her now is 35%.

She does have a great mix -up though cause she can combo a back+X(a low hit) into a roll, which from there you can do whatever. And she can cancel alot of high combo strings into a roll aswell, like square-square-roll, triangle-X-roll, forward+X-roll, etc.

Her telekick is really useful too, being able to activate it as a wake-up, or in mid-air makes getting in on someone easier, especially SZ.

She is a mid-tier character IMO but all she would need is a small buff to damage, and if her EX-roll(not her regular roll) was a low hit, she'd be perfectly viable then.

Other wise top 10

1.Kung Lao
2 Raiden
3.Ermac
4.Kabal
5.Johnny
6.Reptile
7.Sub Zero
8.Nightwolf
9.Kitana
10.Cyrax

prediction: you will see a sudden increase in cyber sub zero users.

bet your nutsack on it.

I'm not arguing, but what makes you say this? Is there something specific in the new patch? I rate he has way better specials than normal Sub Zero in any event. Plus that damn dive kick.

I've been seeing him a lot more in ranked matches, used by noobs and pros alike. I think what is going to happen is this....

Since the lag is basically gone, AND it being easier to find ranked matches, more skilled players feel safe to use normally bad characters (only bad because of lag)

In the span of 4 fights I fought a Stryker, a nightwolf, and two csz. They were all close matches.

More people using said characters, more noobs being persuaded to use said characters.

I myself have even decided to main csz instead of the now neutered Kung Lao.
CSZ is also a very appealing character. Many noobs will see many similarities with other "god-like" characters such as his dive kick was is practically safe on block (ala Kung Lao), as well as the slide, teleport, all that good junk. His parry is also extremely fast. You can pull off multiple parries one after the other so the only way to attack a CSZ is to sweep or use a low attack.

I am also sure after awhile people will be screaming to have his dive kick nerfed to be more easily punishable on block, as well as making it to where his parry has more recovery frames if not attacked.

Just wondering what Infinates/traps/glitches are still in the game after the 1.02 patch. Are some block stuns infs still there or were they fixed? OR sindel reset infinate? Sorry i only really play mileena and dont really pay attention to the other characters ATM

as far as i know, all the known infinites and glitches have been fixed.

the only one i was aware of before the patch notes came out was Kabals block stun, had no idea about Kung Laos hat loop or a Sonya infinite.

Scroll down this page and you'll find a post of mine in which I listed most of the changes (other changes are listed earlier on in the same thread).

Top Ten in Order:

Kung Lao
Kabal
Johnny Cage
Raiden
Nightwolf
Reptile
Cyrax
Kitana
Ermac
Sub-Zero or Shang or Cyber Sub

It was so tough to make a top 10 and NOT include all of the characters above, which is why spot 10 has three options

I think that the order of these can defnitely change based on characters' performances during tournaments--as new things are discovered, characters strengths will change, and so will the list. The game is only a few months old, but I think the above is pretty accurate (in my opinion).

MK has a lot of great characters--and not so many really bad characters, so it makes these lists even more difficult to come up with as a lot of the matchups are splits or close to it.

I think a case can be made for a lot of characters to be here...

Ok, we are getting some nice feedback on top ten, now for something a lot more difficult; bottom 5. First off let me just say that there are no really bad characters in this game, anyone can be deadly in the right hands. Also since these are never used by pros it comes down to a lot of speculation and guesswork so let's just bear with each other's opinions. I think it would make making a full tier list easier if we have a top ten and bottom 5, and then we fill in the middle from there.

So here is my head on the chopping block (From worst to most viable):

Baraka
Sheeva
Stryker
Sindel
Jax

Bottom 5, in no particular order:

Sheeva
Sindel
Baraka
Stryker
Jade



I do think the game is nicely balanced overall and I hope that with the latest tweaks everyone has a chance.

10: Sonya/Ermac
9: Baraka
8: Nightwolf
7: Reptile
6:Cyrax
5: Scorp
4: Sub Z
3: Kung Lao
2: Jade
1: Kabal

Bottom 5

Shang Tsung
Sheeva
Sektor
Quan Chi
Stryker

I'm not saying this is wrong or correct, but something for everyone to keep in mind; If you are gonna make a list that contains something completely contrary to what most other people say or something that is clearly against the popular opinion, just try and state reasons for it. You may even sway others to your point of view.

(Baraka & Jade in top and Shang in bottom would raise some eyebrows)

Ok, well I guess alot of putting Baraka there is his asset as a tag assister. Hes great to switch in and hit with that chop chop to spin, with characters like sub, cyrax, and scorp who can stun opponents then tag out. Individually I think Baraka is an underrated zoner, but in a different way. Because with the rite timing he has the long distance blade spark, and a few variations of powerful moves at mid distance, and we all know how he is up close. With him, if u play right, you can actually put your opponents in the zones you want them to be in, instead of "guarding" a zone with him.

As for Jade, I feel she is the most underrated player in the game. From the huge variety of simple moves with her staff, to her low, hi and mid boomerangs, plus the shadow abilities, she can really be near impossible to beat with the right players. Her ability to juggle an opponent is amazing, and mid to long distance, i feel she is one of the top players in the game. Quick and morre powerful than most females, with a lot of little pop ups-i like surprizing people with her.

Things start to get a bit diluted in the top ten, and I'm also sitting outside my workplace waiting for my shift to start, so I'll just post my top four and low three.

1. Shang Tsung: I've already given my reasons for this earlier in the thread.
2. Kung Lao: With a trusty anti-air, a variety of high/low combos that can cancel into his spin and continue to a high 30% combo, this guy is deadly as fuck.

3. Ermac: This fucker pisses me off. Has a 45%+ combo with no meter and can control so many zones with his force push. YES, I know he nearly has no mix up potential at all, but that's the thing. He NEARLY has no mix up potential. He does have one low string combo, and an overhead that can cancel into a lift. Put those together and that's all the mix ups you'll need. NRS, do me a favor and put a bullet in this fuckers skull.

4. Cyber Sub-Zero: most fighters are overly aggressive. Cyber subs parry cripples this. Nuff said.

Low

1. Jade: I don't give a damn what anyone says. She is an abomination with no low intro combos that can cancel into anything, ALL her moves have slow start up times, meaning any mediocre player can read her and block when needed. Throw her in a mix up with an aggressive player and she is a good as dead.

Gotta go. I guess it'll just be top four and bottom one for me.