"Your knowledge of UMK3 must only exist through watching our combo videos, this is obvious because you brought up some infinites that were never known before we put them in videos. "

Actually, NO. I have played the game online, and have had the misfortune of having Kung Lao's corner infinite performed on me as well as Striker's. By Axem Flame or whatever he goes by now. Only the reptile infinite did I get from a video that was just posted. Pathetic really. More infinites are still being discovered. When will it end?

"You don't know anything about UMK3 and that is evident through your posts, and your obvious fanboy love of MKII. You provide no information, no reason, just "it is the way it is" you reply to irrefutable responses with "Nope" because you are at a loss for words."

I said "nope" to the "irrefutable response" of "Jax and Mileena are God-tier characters". Notice they gave nothing to back it up. They're most certainly relying on the old Midway strategy guide, as if the results from the supposed "tournament" they held is something written in stone. Jax can do what exactly to counter Shang's barrage of fire balls? Ground pound? He'll just get caught by several fire balls. Fight in close? He has to contend with Shang's high priority jump kicks and sweeps. Mileena is very strong, but I wouldn't rank her on the same level as Kabal. She may be the best in MKII, but she's not unstoppable. People make mistakes with her, get to hasty with the teleport kick and roll, both of which can be punished. Her projectile attack is fast, but against a teleporter like Scorpion, too many of those sai throws will set you up for a teleport, harpoon, uppercut combo for massive damage.

i love threads like this, first go here and read my post about top 5 mk2 characters: http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=78923


second - "mk2 has almost no infinites" - LOL. have you ever played mk2?

mileena... no infinites... hm, one roll into left corner and you are dead son. one fan lift in corner with kitana and 98% are gone son. one freeze or spear near the corner and you are dead son, i can keep them comming.


i even dont know what to tell ya about umk3. reptile? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOT REPTILE LOL. i will not comment your "thoughts" about top tier shits because i'm tired from people like you.


just dont talk nonsense, go play mk2 against ... i dont know, people who you think are good, dont even try to compare it with umk3, i dont want to hear anything about reptile too, and rest in peace son.

have a nice day.


ded_

"HK, Ground Pound, repeat."

Huh?

"LoL at your Raiden comment...you also apparently don't know anything about MKII. You have played no one with skill, you have no right to make any judgements."

I've played Dino, MKII Prince, REY2, Shangman, etc online. Many more offline in arcades a long time ago.

"You would have to be completely out of your mind to think Mileena and Jax are not the best in MKII."

I don't dispute Mileena really, but Jax I do.

"You are probably basing everything off your own limited experience."

What are you basing your opinions off on? Are you skilled at MKII? If not, who are you to judge then? You used that reason against me.

"mileena... no infinites... hm, one roll into left corner and you are dead son."

Mileena has an infinite? Never seen one performed in combat. How do you do it?

"one fan lift in corner with kitana and 98% are gone son."

Skilled players don't have to worry about that.

"one freeze or spear near the corner and you are dead son,"

What are you talking about? The roundhouse infinite?

"i can keep them comming"

Please do.

I am skilled at MKII, and I graduated from it many years ago into UMK3.

You don't know how to use Jax, so you assume he isn't good. This is a standard thinking strategy. "I'm not good at a game, therefore it must be a bad game." "I'm not good with this character, it must be a bad character."

Entirely false, and poor thinking.

If you knew how to use Jax, you would understand the power. Jax can duck, charge ground pound and get hit by one of Shang's fireballs, what are you smoking bro because it's gotta be the Snapple brand, as in the best stuff on earth.

You have played people online, who are considered the best, online, but they are not the best offline. I would love to see MK2Prince contend with Jason Wilson in MKII, offline, at an arcade on, sticks. I know he is good online, but there are a lot of players who are "good online" and suck in person. I'm not saying this is the case, but Shirts is proven to be the best at MKII, and no one on Kaillera has any right to stake claims as being such. That would be like, if SF3 were playable on Kaillera, and people saying they were better than Daigo, it's not the same scale, they don't hold water.

MKII is such a simplistic game, that HK, ground pound, with sweeps and backbreaker mix ups, are enough to beat everyone except Mileena.

I never ever want to hear something like "Oh but sometimes people get a little to liberal with their teleport kicks and rolls, and they eat big combos." Those are TERRILBE Mileena players. If you played the best Mileena in the world, they would never do a bad roll, or teleport kick. You would be pinned down with Sais, and the only time they would use her other specials is when you are in the air and she is on the ground. You know nothing about strategy, and base everything off what you see. I thought you based it off your experience, but that is limited.

You have played Axem Flames in UMK3? Oh good, because aside from being able to complete 50% or more damage combos when netplay allows the openings for such (they wouldn't happen normally) he has no other ability whatsoever. He uses Nightwolf (#1 on Kaillera vs Kabal as #1 normally) because even with 1/4 second of delay, you cannot reaction avoid his tackles, nor can you counter after blocking one because the difference = 0. The game has to be perfect to contend with Nightwolf. He uses Human Smoke because of easy 50% combos off knee lifts, which the chance to connect are enhanced by netplay. He doesn't even use the full combos, he just uses bare minimum, and yet, he cannot defeat Unmasked Sub-zero (ranked #23, that's last by the way), or Stryker who is right in the middle around #13, nor can he beat a good Reptile because he turtles a lot and doesn't know what to do when he isn't doing a memory required only combo. Average lag conditions make Kung's cross screen combos nearly impossible, Ermac corner combos are significantly dumbed down, Reptile infinites are impossible, wake ups, mix ups, randomness etc rule netplay UMK3, you will never see so many free hits as you do online. So yeah, Netplay doesn't count.

Remove all netplay experience from your belt, and what do you have left? Next to nothing. Don't come here and try to dictate "new math" to people who are established in the community. In a week, you will be forgotten because no one as brazan as you are about your personal beliefs lasts long on this site.

I'm not stating personal beliefs about MK, I am providing factual knowledge. The sum of knowledge from gamers from around the world, and over the last decade. I provided a comprehensive UMK3 strategy guide a few months ago over the course of months of prior work. I have organized a number of tournaments over the last few years. I, along with DreemerNJ and ded_, have produced 9 combo videos to peak interest in UMK3 on an aestethic level before taking it to the competitive end via ultimatemk.com.

What have *you* done for the community?

"La dee da. I'm a moron. I suck at mortal kombat. I don't know anything."
Agreed.


"something about new infs being pathetic"
There are very few people that dont play but work for finding these things. I say work because none of it will happen in actual play. You're calling those people's work pathetic.

You are thinking about this the wrong way. You're saying just because so many infs are there, the game is broken. All you need is one inf which is

I don't think Goldberg realizes that the infinites we have been finding lately, are limited mostly to Sheeva, and are impossible to do in game. A big problem he has here is the ability to differentiate.

a corner punch inf in snes mk1. I don't know if there are any others 4 that port, but it doesnt matter because that one inf ruins the whole game. So it doesnt matter how many infinites there are. You cant hate a cake caus it makes people fat.

For the record, I Iike mk2 a lot. It's like this:
games=girls
mk2=hot girl
umk3=hot girl with no top


again, sorry I had to double post. The last was actualy right at the limit. It looks anticipating though.

KungBroken,

You say you are skilled at MKII. You also seem to have experience with online play. So how about we have a few MKII matches online, to show me these Jax strategies? Set the time up and server.

Anyway, about the Shang comment -- when Jax players charge LK for the ground pound, they usually want to use it if you are at a distance. So you bombard with fireballs of three each. If he releases LK, he is likely to get caught by the barrage. If the Jax player just turtles and does nothing, you play mind games, jump around to try to make the Jax player release LK at the wrong time. Then move in close with his high priority jump kick. His jump kick can sometimes counter Jax's anit-air high kick. Get in close, and use his low punch jabs if he's blocking and his superior sweeping ability. That's how I've beaten Jax players with Shang. But perhaps Dino isn't very good, at least compared to others offline.

I am not sure what you mean here, how can you spam fireballs constantly and also jump around, and play mind games? Mixing up these three things will result in your defeat. In terms of priority, in order to beat out Jax's HK with Shang, you have to do the jump a lot closer than normal, and when you jump from such a close distance, the immediate response is a backbreaker, or duck, and if you duck, you can uppercut Shang on the way down. If you jump from long range, the Jax player can wait until the kick retracts, and HK the falling Shang. Essentially there is no safe range Shang can always JK from without Jax having a reaction based method of countering. To effectively use the ground pound during fireballs, you release it between the last two.

I'm not going to subject myself to a netplay scenario in the midst of discussion because it is obvious you would jump all over any netplay wins you get. It wouldn't represent anything close to what you would have to deal with under normal conditions. You can forget about ever playing me in MKII online.

Nobody is refuting that MK2 Prince or Dino are great MKII players. They are, infact. But trying to say that Shang is better than Jax is almost laughable. You say "a constant barrage of 3 fireballs"? Using that is stupid due to the delay Shang has after the 3rd fireball comes out. Jax gets a ground pound for free. Shang should be using only the double fireball unless he is trying to catch his opponent thinking he's only doing two. But fighting against Jax, using more than two is death. Even if you are doing repeated double fireballs against Jax, he is going to be full screen distance from you ducking them and if you do a double fireball then jump at him thinking he is going to pound, even if he does you are too far to do anything about it as he is already charging his next pound. Jax also has a projectile pressure game at fullscreen, mixing it up with the pound.

All of this is based on offline play, as online it's all up in the air and random. Kaillera is for fun and means nothing.

**Dave:
For the record, I Iike mk2 a lot. It's like this:
games=girls
mk2=hot girl
umk3=hot girl with no top

mk4=chick with a dick

1. a simple jp into left corner followed with roll is guaranteed infinite OFFLINE!

2. the fan lift is the best punisher for blocked moves, even if you are close to corner you will get 90% min, sometimes 99%, sometimes even 100. MK2 is simple game - turtle, counter or attack, there is just no other choice - attack and get the fan lift ^^

3. yeah, i'm talking about rh infinite, i dont know how a skilled mk2 player will never use that.

i know why you see lao to be top because of netplay, even with delay you will get "delayed" div kicks and teleport escapes, a simple zonning with hat works + almost all his strategies even with delay.

i'm not going to reply to your other posts, shock and konqrr already do that, take care ^_^

MK2 was the best classic game, if you played it in arcades.

Man, all this talk about bad netplay makes me worry about umk3 live and exactly how "high level" its actually going to be.

Yeah thats a definite concern. Honestly, it needs to be a lot better than Kaillera as far as consistancy of play for it to be useable at all. But, I suspect, even in the best condition it can be, it'll probably still be very different from playing in the arcade.

I am hoping they update the gameplay to add some more characters for the release. At least than it'll be different from the arcade version in more ways besides netplay garbage.

Netplay still does, unfortunately, suck.

Well personally I'll choose UMK3 and MK 2. All are great though.

I was thinking about starting to play on kaillera to get better before live, but then I thought xbox's netplay would be so much better, I might not get anything usefull. I'm starting to doubt it. I know that umk3 on live has potential, but when was the last time you saw something w/ potential turn out the way it should have. It sucks that all my friends are getting PS3s instead of 360s. I really don't want to spend $400 for something that ends like something I could use for free.

Truth.

If you can find someone cool to play, someone that won't be a Kaillera ass (sore winner/loser, abusing Kaillera tactics to win, etc) you might be able to get something out of it. Find someone good and maybe try running the server off of your comp or their comp instead of going to a public server. So many of the popular public servers run Emulinker and that ruins the gameplay and lies about pings.

You have to catch Kaillera at its absolute best for it to be somewhat acceptable.

Preferential conditions on Kaillera:

After 1AM for both players

less than 10 people in a room

both with under 30ms to the server, preferably in the teens

both set on excellent

both on a Cable modem

Only in these conditions is it anywhere near acceptable.

i thought this was a "what do you think is the best game" thread, not a "you're opinion is wrong and here's why" thread. anyway. I own both games, i love UMK3, i hate MK2. HATE IT. I like run, i like combos.