Hehe,

It sounds like you are pretty biased towards MK:DA as it is. I am not sure under what circumstances you are making your comparisons, but if you look at almost every review for VF4 EVO, they would disagree with what you have to say about VF4 Evo graphics.

In terms of animations, what you are comparing is basically two different comapnies motion capture skills. Since they barely use any hand animation for the actual fighting, so saying one is better than the other is sort of a mute point unless you can point out specifics for every move.

As for the characters, if you take into account that the character textures and outfits on VF4 Evo were created specifically for the purpose of editing and changing costumes and several hundred articles of clothing. As opposed to MKDA characters which have 2 designated outfits, which you can't edit at all. Saying MKDA is more detailed is sort of silly because one is designed to take advantage of pushing the poly limit of the hardware where as the other was designed for flexibility in costumes and the editable look of each charater.

And towards your proportions comment, about how MKDA characters look better in that respect, I think that has to do more with personal opinion than anything else. If anything I would say the muscles for MKDA characters are a bit more exagerated from the norm, almost comic book like, where as VF4 Evo goes for a more realistic approach.

I am not going to say that your opinions are wrong however, but I was well aware of VF4's graphical prowess even before the reviews scored it with phenomenal ratings.

I have loved MK since MK1 back in the arcade, so technically I can say I am a little biased towards MKDA and Midway as well.But even beyond my MK bias, VF4 EVO deserves respect because it is one of the greatest fighting games of all time, whether you are comparing graphics, gameplay, or balance, almost every game reviewer will agree with the fact that VF EVO deserves the high ratings it recieved.

I will also say however it deserves a hell of alot more credit than you are giving it.

-DN

I've played both games, and graphics don't really matter (unless they are utter crap). Both games are good in their own standards.

I haven't really played VF4: Evolution yet. How is it? I remember the day that I played VF4 over at my friend's house and I was surprised. The graphics in VF4 looked good but the controls were one of the things that surprised me. I didn't mind having 3 attack buttons on the face of the controller (as long as there are 3 or 4 attack buttons on the face of the controller, I don't mind) but the placement of the guard button...wtf were they thinking putting it on the Square button???!! However, I did not have enough time to play as other characters so maybe other characters had different control systems...if they had the same button control system..then I'd confirm my being pissed off...When I was playing the one player mode and lost after defeating the 2nd or 3rd person, I couldn't go back to the character select screen and choose another character!!! The music wasn't as good as it should be...It was rather repetitive in terms of genre from what I remember. But it was a great game in terms of gameplay. I wonder if VF4 got rid of the little problems that I mentioned. I did read the Gamespot review of VF4: Evolution.

Raidenwins Wrote: just got VF4:Evolution yesterday and i was utterly amazed at how inferior its graphics engine is compared to MKDA.

well, you've got my attention, that's for sure...

Raidenwins Wrote: first of all, the characters aren't nearly as detailed as in MKDA and they don't animate nearly as well.

First of all, VF has smoother, richer, "snappier" animation than DA, period. It has almost perfect frame calculations, aiding the fact that it's one of the most balanced fighters EVER. This simple insight alone scores points as far as animation. All that asthetic monkey flip, carwheel escape crap that peeps want is in VF, too. Sega simply implemented it so well it doesn't actually suck.

You want to talk about details? Uh, i can change my characters eye color, accesories such as bangles, glasses, pants, tatoo's, et....how much more detail do you want? Change the color of their pubes? DA may have flashier characters, but that doesn't mean the quality of detail is any better. VF is about acurate representation, not fantasy and flash.

Raidenwins Wrote: the characters look like they are made of a bunch of mechanical pieces put together. also in VF4:Evo, characters bodies aren't as well proportioned as the ones in MKDA.

WTF...this one truely amusses me. Dude, go pick up "Bridgemans Complete Guide to Figure Drawing" and then study some actual human anatomy for just three minutes. You'll find your aformentioned statement to be nill.

Raidenwins Wrote: as far as the backgrounds are concerned, the differences are even more obvious. In MKDA you had such niceties as distinct looking humans in the background observing the fight, which you also had in VF4:Evo but they are not distinct, just a big mass of hands, faces, bodies, etc. The particle and weather effects in MKDA were also much more detailed and better animated altogether

The atmoshperic effects in DA are nice. But VF's do not suck, either. The effects in DA are, once agian, put in place to enduse that sense of fantasy and produce a sense of mystical arua.

Might I add, that crushed snow beneath the feet ownz. As do the water and lightening effects in VF.

Raidenwins Wrote: I wasn't surprised about GameSpot's score though, these guys have been under scoring MK games for years now.

That's becuase the past few years, er, games, MK has sucked. GS is totally abitrary when it comes to reviews and articles anyways.

off to play ICO. kthnksbye

raidenwins:
those were my exact same thoughts after playing v4evolution.

Well im gonna pick up virtual fighter 4 evolution just to see whos missing the point here, but common sense just dictates that virtaul fighter four evolution has at least a year and a halfs time worth of jump over mkda. The least they can do is improvise on outdated graphics, right?

well, i guess i could have been biased i suppose, but that really was my initial impression as soon as i poped VF4:Evo in my PS2. even if its graphics are not as bad as i said though, i am convinced they are not better than MKDA's.
as far as which game is better althogether, arguments could be made in both cases. VF4:Evo does have an insane amount of moves per character and an awesome quest mode, but it lacks in story and characters. MKDA on the other hand may not have the amount of moves, but it does have the advantage of a pretty good storyline and much more interesting characters. ceratinly a lot more could be written about both games, but i'll stop here as i am, quite frankly, feeling a little lazy today.

Both games look great, and both have good, and bad animation's.

Bad example in VFE is that the walking animation's look terrible. Another is the reaction to Sarra's Knee strike throw is just weird.

Bad in MKDA I can only think of one right now and it's for a hit animation for a pop up. When you fall on you head, it looks weak.

Other than that tough both games are amazing.

Raidenwins Wrote: well, i guess i could have been biased i suppose, but that really was my initial impression as soon as i poped VF4:Evo in my PS2. even if its graphics are not as bad as i said though, i am convinced they are not better than MKDA's. as far as which game is better althogether, arguments could be made in both cases. VF4:Evo does have an insane amount of moves per character and an awesome quest mode, but it lacks in story and characters. MKDA on the other hand may not have the amount of moves, but it does have the advantage of a pretty good storyline and much more interesting characters. ceratinly a lot more could be written about both games, but i'll stop here as i am, quite frankly, feeling a little lazy today.

I know what you mean about the storyline and characters. I wasn't impressed with most of the VF characters. Overall, I don't find the VF characters to be that interesting, and MK: DA has a good storyline and characters. But then again, VF does a good job with the gameplay.

VF is superior graphic wise and probably has the most indepth fighting engine of all the fighting games availible at the moment. If you're an MK fan boy why bother comparing the games?

I dont think its superior graphic wise at all. The VF4 chars look too sparkly and just as fake as MKDA's do. Even though both games are weak on the muscle side, I feel chars like Sub-Zero,Jax,etc have overall better muscle proportion than VF4. Just look at Vanessa's thighs in VF4.

I dont care if it has a more indepth fighting system. More indepth doesnt equal more fun, and fun is what matters. As long as a fighter requires enough skill to be competetive and is fun I don't care if its not the deepest fighter to date.

Pound for pound Id say VF4 Evo has a more polished look, but it's not SUPERIOR to MKDA's in anyway, except particle effects.

The characters in DA looked a little stupid to me. Sub-Zero and Scorpion were a lot smaller muscle wise in the earlier MK games...then all of a sudden boom there huge. Ninja steriods?

If VF4 isn't one of/if not the deepest fighter to date then plz gimme a list of fighters that are more indept then VF.

Also, I'm a little surprised to see you type "fun is what matters" since all you seem to care about is tourny's.

Versatile Wrote: I feel chars like Sub-Zero,Jax,etc have overall better muscle proportion than VF4. Just look at Vanessa's thighs in VF4. I dont care if it has a more indepth fighting system. More indepth doesnt equal more fun, and fun is what matters. As long as a fighter requires enough skill to be competetive and is fun I don't care if its not the deepest fighter to date.

Nikodemus Wrote: The characters in DA looked a little stupid to me. Sub-Zero and Scorpion were a lot smaller muscle wise in the earlier MK games...then all of a sudden boom there huge. Ninja steriods? If VF4 isn't one of/if not the deepest fighter to date then plz gimme a list of fighters that are more indept then VF. Also, I'm a little surprised to see you type "fun is what matters" since all you seem to care about is tourny's. Versatile Wrote: I feel chars like Sub-Zero,Jax,etc have overall better muscle proportion than VF4. Just look at Vanessa's thighs in VF4. I dont care if it has a more indepth fighting system. More indepth doesnt equal more fun, and fun is what matters. As long as a fighter requires enough skill to be competetive and is fun I don't care if its not the deepest fighter to date.

I am just fine with Sub and Scorp's muscle mass. So what if they got bigger. The couldnt have kept them skinny forever. The reason why they were previously skinn is because actors did the characters. This is not the case anymore.

Did I say VF4 evo wasnt the deepest fighter out? No, I didn't. I said I don't care if it's the deepest fighter out or not, I still like MK,Tekken,Soul Calibur and Smash Bros much more.

I care about tournaments becase meeting up with fellow MK fans and playing is FUN. Sitting home and playing by yourself is not FUN. I could care less about whether a tournament is held or if we just chill and play, I want to meet up with people and play.

Sure both MKDA and VF4 have their pros and cons, but the one thing they have in common is that they both suck. Bye

Alright I understand a little better... but I am still slightly surprised. Seems to me that all the people that attend tourneys seem to be after one thing; the right to be asscracks towards other fans / players of the game who are less skilled. I participated in a few tourneys a long time ago. I went to five total; three for MK2 and another two for UMK3. I won two of the MK2 tournaments and both the UMK3 tournaments. I was really surprised at the arrogance I encountered and the way people treated each other. I like playing against other human opponents just as much as the next guy, but I can’t stand when people put each other down over a fucking game. I won four tourneys and I never bad mouthed anyone. Now I see you guys on the boards talking smack about each other and it completely turns me off to attending any tournaments. I much rather get together with a bunch of friends and play the games to avoid all that bull, but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

As for Scorpion and Sub-Zero if memory serves me right there were no actors in MK4. I thought Scorpion's body was at its best in that game. He had muscle but was still small enough to be considered a ninja. Now he looks like Brock Lesnar ready to pull off an F-5.

Versatile Wrote: I dont care if it has a more indepth fighting system. More indepth doesnt equal more fun, and fun is what matters. As long as a fighter requires enough skill to be competetive and is fun I don't care if its not the deepest fighter to date. I am just fine with Sub and Scorp's muscle mass. So what if they got bigger. The couldnt have kept them skinny forever. The reason why they were previously skinn is because actors did the characters. This is not the case anymore. Did I say VF4 evo wasnt the deepest fighter out? No, I didn't. I said I don't care if it's the deepest fighter out or not, I still like MK,Tekken,Soul Calibur and Smash Bros much more. I care about tournaments becase meeting up with fellow MK fans and playing is FUN. Sitting home and playing by yourself is not FUN. I could care less about whether a tournament is held or if we just chill and play, I want to meet up with people and play.

Shit talking comes with the Package. Me and SST may talk shit, but at the end of the day we're either playing some game online or chatting. Shit talking makes wanted to become good seem more pointless, and puts you on your better game. No one was talking shit at all at the tournament..not one person. We just chilled and played.

Scorpion doesn't have that big of a muscle mass to me. I think it's fine. Sub-Zero is bigger, yes, but you can think of it as the Dragon Medallion giving him more power.

The muscle mass on the MKDA has nothing to do with powers or magic medallions. It's just either the modelers style, like every artist draws different, it's the same with 3D.

Or they just wanted the comic book look.

They could have made the characters more realistic, they just didn't feel like it, that's all.


I would like a more realistic look like in VF, or DOA3, but it's not that important, I like this look too.

I really disgree with people saying their muscle mass is too big

For one thing height and weight is provided in the screen. It is possible for a 6 2 person to be that big at that weight. All characters have reasonable muscle

Take cano for example. if youre 5 10 200 pounds, you probably would look like that, more so than anything else, if youre not fat.

5 10 people should know what Im talking about.

If you wanna see mass muscle in people for mk, check out this site:

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Queen/3558/gallerroom.htm

Now this is out of norm.

Scorpion and Sub-Zero have the same listed body weight as they did in the MK1 manual yet all of a sudden they are muscle bound...whatever tho. Your the second person to tell me you think the cartoony muscles are cool so I guess the stupid looking characters are popular.

outworld222 Wrote: I really disgree with people saying their muscle mass is too big For one thing height and weight is provided in the screen. It is possible for a 6 2 person to be that big at that weight. All characters have reasonable muscle Take cano for example. if youre 5 10 200 pounds, you probably would look like that, more so than anything else, if youre not fat. 5 10 people should know what Im talking about. If you wanna see mass muscle in people for mk, check out this site: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Queen/3558/gallerroom.htm Now this is out of norm.

First off, if you say that their wights were established since the first mk, then you should be the first to know that people with that kinda wight cannot be stick figures! Actually if you checked with the most amatuer doctors they will tell you that if youre not fat, you will look excactly like sub at that wieght; just think about it, could sub or scorpion look like mk1 in real life with that kinda weight? No way. Am I ringing any bells?

You would not be that ripped with that kinda body weight sorry. I myself am 5'11 185lbs and I'm not that muscular nor am I fat. So I don't think adding 3 inches and 20-30lbs to my frame would make me look like that. With the size of Sub and Scorp in DA they would have to be 230+lbs.

Here's an example from the wrestling world...

SHAWN MICHAELS
Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 225
(close enough to Scorp and Sub)



Does that guy look as big as them? Didn't think so...

outworld222 Wrote: First off, if you say that their wights were established since the first mk, then you should be the first to know that people with that kinda wight cannot be stick figures! Actually if you checked with the most amatuer doctors they will tell you that if youre not fat, you will look excactly like sub at that wieght; just think about it, could sub or scorpion look like mk1 in real life with that kinda weight? No way. Am I ringing any bells?

since we're on the discussion of inaccuracies. Sub and Scorp are supposed to be the same height, but in DA Sub-Zero is taller. Also, Kano shrunk. H ewas 6'0 in MK1 and now he is 5'11.

Versitile, its possible to shrink an inch during a lifetime, and nicodurmus, thats just one body lifestyle, shawn michaels is well known for his versitility. Thats just one guy. If you went up close to him and if he did a flexing pose you would truely see how big he is. By the way nicodermus, you would need 3 and a half inches, closer to 50 pounds, and if subzero was the proffesianal ninja he really is, at least two hours of working out, and puff looking like a shorter version of HHH is extremely probably.
But youre right nicoderm, chances are many people wouldnt look that buff, but its not out of range, or impoosible. Ide actually give you a 35 65 chance you wouldnt look like that.
I myself am 5 11 and the most I weighed was 160Pounds, so I know what youre saying nicodermus.