I think it's all a matter of opinion.

It's not opinion. Put Scorpion vs Mileena in MK2 and tell me if it's opinion that Mileena is superior in every way.

I used to be a tier preacher so to speak, but I really don't care anymore. I tend to use low tier/mid tier characters because that's the tier my favorite characters normally are in. Here are a few things that I know/have heard.

In MK1 Kano and Johnny Cage were the best. Cage had a corner infinite and a very good punishing move with the shadow kick. Kano had the Ball which worked a lot like the shadow kick.

MK2 it's easily Mileena and Jax. They are just overpowered..period. Mileena can protect her turf so to speak with Sais, and make her oppnents fear getting in with a teleport kick. Jax's pound is disgusting, and he has the most high kick range, and the best jump kick(seems to last longer animation wise).

MK3 it was Sub-Zero. The clone..nuff said. I think Cyrax and Kabal were up there as well.

UMK3 it was Kabal,Human Smoke and Nightwolf in that order if I remember correctly. Kabal had the damn flash and he was just sick. I think H.Smoke could kill you in like 2 juggles, and Nightwolf is just an offensive powerhouse.

MK4 I know the leas about tier wise, but I from what i've seen and heard from players it was Tanya and Jarek. I don't know who was better. I think Raiden and Reptile were tops as well.

MKDA it's Scorpion,Bo Rai Cho and Reptile.

Yeah... I'd say it's a matter of opinion as well.

Even though some characters have stronger moves or "cooler looking" moves, that doesn't mean they're the best. It depends on who is playing and/or who your favorite character is.

It's always been a thing for me to pick the shittiest (aka weakest or most disliked) character in a fighting game and beat my friends' asses with them.

versatile Wrote: It's not opinion. Put Scorpion vs Mileena in MK2 and tell me if it's opinion that Mileena is superior in every way. I used to be a tier preacher so to speak, but I really don't care anymore. I tend to use low tier/mid tier characters because that's the tier my favorite characters normally are in. Here are a few things that I know/have heard. In MK1 Kano and Johnny Cage were the best. Cage had a corner infinite and a very good punishing move with the shadow kick. Kano had the Ball which worked a lot like the shadow kick. MK2 it's easily Mileena and Jax. They are just overpowered..period. Mileena can protect her turf so to speak with Sais, and make her oppnents fear getting in with a teleport kick. Jax's pound is disgusting, and he has the most high kick range, and the best jump kick(seems to last longer animation wise). MK3 it was Sub-Zero. The clone..nuff said. I think Cyrax and Kabal were up there as well. UMK3 it was Kabal,Human Smoke and Nightwolf in that order if I remember correctly. Kabal had the damn flash and he was just sick. I think H.Smoke could kill you in like 2 juggles, and Nightwolf is just an offensive powerhouse. MK4 I know the leas about tier wise, but I from what i've seen and heard from players it was Tanya and Jarek. I don't know who was better. I think Raiden and Reptile were tops as well. MKDA it's Scorpion,Bo Rai Cho and Reptile.

mileena? plaease. a simple block, spear counters two of her specials. and her sais are easily avoided with his teleport. superior? thats garbage.

baraka does way more combo damage than jax (and almost every other character for that matter)

what about ermac? sonya? kung lao? and the rest of the characters that have infinates? some of you put frost higher up cause of her inf...but do that for the classics?..not that i care, i dont go by tier lists.

"then why are you even posting??" because he mentioned "superior"..every character has a counter for anothers moves. how does mileena keep someone like scorpion, raiden, kung lao, shang tsung at bay with her sais?? seeing how they can be avoided easily with with a simple teleport.
theres a counter for everything.

if sub was #1 in mk3, why not umk3? cause kabal, nightwolf, etc all had the same combos from mk3. a few of them got a coup;le new combos, but nothing big.
i always thought tier lists were pointless..thats my opnion. its not what character is faster, stronger, ect..its how you use that character.

"if sub was #1 in mk3, why not umk3?"

Because his Iceclone have changed in umk3, you cannot IceClone near the other player.

scorpio Wrote: if sub was #1 in mk3, why not umk3?

Because he could do an Ice Clone right on top of you...effectively freezing your uppercut or your block. Sub is hands down the best in MK3, then Kabal, Nightwolf, Smoke. Cyrax was top due to his infinite, but that was removed in later revisions. In UMK3, the Ice Clone was modified to disappear immediately if done too close to your opponent.

Scorpio, you are right about Scorpion being a monster vs Mileena...but she has a terrible advantage vs almost every character. As you can block her telekick and ball and do a spear, she can bait you too...like you said, it's all in the player. But can a good Reptile take out a good Shang or Jax player? I think not...not if they play the character how he's meant to be played.

Go online and find NEO (This is MKL, by the way), tell him to pick Jax in MK2 and you pick Scorpion or Reptile or anyone else, he'll show you how Jax is the best in MK2.

In MK1 I believe Sonya was the strongest character, followed by Kano, then Cage.

In MK2, there was a strategy guide that gave the ranking order, which I believe to be (though I could be wrong), from strongest to weakest: Mileena, Jax, Kitana, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Baraka, Raiden, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Johnny Cage, Shang Tsung, Reptile. This may not have been accurate, but what I've read backs it up pretty well, for the most part.

MK3, a strategy guide I have lists the deadliest foes for each character. Sub Zero, Sheeva, Cyrax, Sektor and Nightwolf were probably the most common.

No idea for UMK3.

My MK4 guide gives characters number ratings. Reiko and Tanya are the highest rated.

Konqrr Wrote: scorpio Wrote: if sub was #1 in mk3, why not umk3? Because he could do an Ice Clone right on top of you...effectively freezing your uppercut or your block. Sub is hands down the best in MK3, then Kabal, Nightwolf, Smoke. Cyrax was top due to his infinite, but that was removed in later revisions. In UMK3, the Ice Clone was modified to disappear immediately if done too close to your opponent. Scorpio, you are right about Scorpion being a monster vs Mileena...but she has a terrible advantage vs almost every character. As you can block her telekick and ball and do a spear, she can bait you too...like you said, it's all in the player. But can a good Reptile take out a good Shang or Jax player? I think not...not if they play the character how he's meant to be played. Go online and find NEO (This is MKL, by the way), tell him to pick Jax in MK2 and you pick Scorpion or Reptile or anyone else, he'll show you how Jax is the best in MK2.

i forgot about the ice clone..its been a while since ive even played mk3/umk3. still, tht one move doesnt make him "the best".

as for mkl, anytime he wants to play me (or anyone else for that matter) you can reach me on aim scorpiomk07. im online around twice a week. fridays from morning to around 8 pm and sundays all day.

scorpio Wrote: i forgot about the ice clone..its been a while since ive even played mk3/umk3. still, tht one move doesnt make him "the best".

It doesn't? You get hit with it so easily and cheaply i might add...every it does, say goodbye to at least 30% damage. You block a jump kick...ice clone, your hit. You're in the corner? Sub jumps in on top of you so you can't uppercut...if you don't run out in time, ice clone, your hit. Sub jumps in and kicks early, you think "hey, easy uppercut", as he gets closer, ice clone, you uppercut the clone, your hit.

Kabal might have more setups and Nightwolf can kill you before you know it...but none are as cheap as MK3 Sub-Zero.

Konqrr Wrote: scorpio Wrote: i forgot about the ice clone..its been a while since ive even played mk3/umk3. still, tht one move doesnt make him "the best". It doesn't? You get hit with it so easily and cheaply i might add...every it does, say goodbye to at least 30% damage. You block a jump kick...ice clone, your hit. You're in the corner? Sub jumps in on top of you so you can't uppercut...if you don't run out in time, ice clone, your hit. Sub jumps in and kicks early, you think "hey, easy uppercut", as he gets closer, ice clone, you uppercut the clone, your hit. Kabal might have more setups and Nightwolf can kill you before you know it...but none are as cheap as MK3 Sub-Zero.

Ain't that the truth.

It's really like that... Kabal is great in MK3, still is in UMK3, even though his best combo (lk,lk,hp,hp,d+hp,jk,eye-ball) does about 10% LESS damage. Nightwolf remains strong, his best combo (hk,hp,hp,lp,hatchet,hatchet,shoulder) does 41%, even more when used after jump-punch or hop kick.
Smoke is def. on of the best in UMK3, all it takes is 1 Telepunch to hit, Spear in, than autocombo for an easy 40%.

To me, Mileena is the best in MKII, any good Mileena player can just about kick anyone's ass. Jax is great, mainly due to his extremly high damaging moves like the Quad Slam and deep jump-kick, backbreaker combo. But I think Jax vs. Mileena goes to Mileena.

In MK4, I think Scorpion takes the cake. I'm personally better with Reiko. Sub has the stupid 'reduced-damage-when-frozen-thing' going on.

Well, I was going to respond about the whole clone ordeal, but I see you guys took care of that already.

Scorpio if you want we can play on Sunday. Let's see if you're as good as you say.

In MK4, I think Scorpion takes the cake. I'm personally better with Reiko. Sub has the stupid 'reduced-damage-when-frozen-thing' going on.

I'm not so familiar with the MK4 engine as with the MK3/UMK3/MKT engine. Sounds kind of like damage protection, which makes sense since that really kills his damage in MK3/UMK3/MKT. I think he has double damage protection or something go on because the damage drop off is really nasty.

I'm really only familiar with high level gameplay for MK3 and UMK3, but as far as most players are concerned, the iceclone was way too broken and made Subzero a vicious beast.

In UMK3, the toppest of tier is Kabal, Human Smoke, and Nightwolf, as stated earlier. Ermac Robot Smoke and Kung Lao can also hold their own in there but it more difficult with them, as Ermac lacks the air throw that Smoke has, but his containment is a lot different conceptually and you can pull off much bigger damage with him than Human Smoke, however Human Smoke has a standard 50%, Ermac does not. Sonya is kind of high because she has a good pressure game, her leg grab is still good and fast, and her pop up combo is good damage, and she can relaunch any other top tier character in an infinite (timing is tough) except Nightwolf. In order to understand why characters are top tier, you really have to play against people who use them well. I do agree there is always room for "specialist" players, who can romp with characters like Jax, Kano, and Stryker. Stryker has an advantage against characters because he can't be run jabbed, but, he can't run jab either, and he can duck and block Nightwolf's shoulder tackle and not get hit by it, making it VERY difficult for Nightwolf to pour on the pressure, because one missed tackle against a Stryker with good reflexes, the Stryker player can do a pop up to semi infinite all the way across screen, and in some case, get his other corner infinte. Definitely something for Nightwolf to contend with. You would have to go with someone else against a skilled Stryker. It's also funny, how scrubs consider them the worst characters in the game lol. Just about every infinite in UMK3 is very difficult to do consecutively, so they don't play as big a part in gameplay as one might expect, but they are there, and if you play high level players who know about them, be warned, Classic Sub-Zero's is the easiest of the relaunches, and I myself can usually get around 4 or 5 volleys of it doing 80%. There's so much more to MK, I can give a link to Lex's UMK3 Compedium for a more comprehensive look at UMK3:

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid;=33227&perpage;=15&pagenumber;=1

Matt

Versatile Wrote: Well, I was going to respond about the whole clone ordeal, but I see you guys took care of that already. Scorpio if you want we can play on Sunday. Let's see if you're as good as you say.

wtf are you talking about? i recall beating your ass every time we played (or have you forgotten?) so dont go acting like a big shot.

Calm down dude, let's keep this ON topic.

Its not that people dont think they are good gameplay wise. It is that people both think they are super shitty CHARACTERS. Bad storyline,design,etc. 99.9% of fans HATE Stryker. I think hes one of the worst of the MK characters..if not THE worst.

Nightwolf on the other hand is friggen cool. I LOVE his moves, his costume, and I feel his storyline, while not deep, is different and cool, and I really hope someday he will return.

Who were the worst characters in UMK3? People say Sub-Zero, but I say hell no. Not because hes my fav character, but I've seen/done far too much good Sub-Zero stuff forme to think he is the worst. I think both Shang Tsung and Mileena are worse than he is. Maybe even Sektor. Sektor to me is overrated. His homing missles arent that great if handled correctly, and the teleport is not as good as it is with smoke without the sick damage Smoke has PLUS invisibility and a spear. Id even stretch and say Sub-Zero is better than Cyrax. That's about it, though.

Classic Sub Zero isn't THAT good. Unmasked is better, but I don't think he beats Cyrax in UMK3, then again, Freeze > Net, all the net does is give Sub a compfy ride to a frozen Cyrax...

Kitana is top tier in MK2 to me, but that's just my opinion...also Kang in MK3/UMK3...and if cheesy is allowed, then one of my favs, Smoke (robot) is for sure up there..

Mk1:

Sonya happens to be the best. Johnny Cage is second.

Mk2:

Mileena and Jax have to be the best.

But In my opinion Kitana is much better. Her fan lift and throw are very powerful to use in lots of combinations.

Mk3:

Kabal and Cyrax are excellent in this game. Fast with cheap deadly moves.

Sub-Zero is very good with his ice clone, but not the best.

Sonya has an excellent INFINITE with her leg grab. You can do it all the time. Its 100% secure when done on the robots (Cyrax, Smoke and Sektor) grab them once and you have them finished. She also has powerful combos.

Even Stryker, he had cheap moves like his bomb throws that used constantly to win the fight. He was fast.

MK3U or Trilogy

The ones from Mk3.

Jade is very powerful with her speed and that “invincible” glow.

Rayden.

Mk4:

I don’t really see Jarek as something special here.

Tanya, Rayden, Johnny Cage and Sonya are the best.

Johnny Cage was extremely fast with excellent kick moves.

Sonya has the highest combo in the game.

Mk5:

Its Scorpion, Bo Rai Cho, Sonya and Reptile. IMO

Johnny Cage sucked in MK4. He was one of my mains, but just because im a cage fan boy. Sonya wasnt that good in MK4 either. Sub was better than Cyrax,etc in MK3. And how is Kitana better than Mileena or Jax? She's number 4 under jax,mileena and liu kang.

blade-tsung Wrote: Kitana is top tier in MK2 to me, but that's just my opinion...also Kang in MK3/UMK3...and if cheesy is allowed, then one of my favs, Smoke (robot) is for sure up there..

I agree 100%, Kitana is by far my best character in mk2, she's quicker than hell, and her suare wave punch can get you out of almost anything, and her fan lift can be cheap at times

And Vers, Sektor is not over-rated, a good Sektor player can use some of the cheapest tactics, my damn cousin always kicks my ass using sektor, he is better than Smoke IMO.

Sonya is very good in MK4...Anti Air HP, Wheel Kick, Jump Kick, Air Throw? Rules...But, Jarek has some really cheap stuff like a blocked HK, HK, Ground Slam is hard to escape and his weapon is one of the cheapest in the game.

MK2? Kitana is not better than Jax, Mileena, OR Liu Kang...Jax plays the defensive offense game and she can't get in...Mileena can out wait Kitana and has much easier and faster air projectiles that recover almost instantly...Liu Kang is the ducking nightmare, throwing Low Fireballs to keep you honest and when you jump his uppercut is one of the best, plus he's always charging that damn turkey kick of his which does more damage than an uppercut and comes out of nowhere. Yeah, Kitana is #4...don't get me wrong, I love playing Kitana but she's not the best.

Yeah imo Kitana is konqrr's best char in mk2..so he should know.

Sektor isnt better than Smoke no matter how you look at it.

There have always been tiers for the games, but in MK I never felt they were as set as some other games. I firmly believe someone can get good with just about anyone and be a force to be reckoned with.