I totally agree with some points on this thread, but as i expected and as FLSTYLE said, it's inclined to one side, as you know opinions may diverge and shall always be different, criticism and dialogue is what enrichs this site, and i think that if one of the numerous MK fans have to bash (in a correct way) the game he has the right to, there would be in no way a prefect game never (aside from FF series ) but that's what enrichs this world, diversity, so as well try to understand the other users that may not agree with you.

Bleed Wrote: Critiques, whether positive or negative is definitely necessary.

I agree but if your going to critigue somebody or something I think you need to have a good arguement as to why you think it should be better or different and not just come up with some lame ass excuse and have no arguement to back it up with. Personally, I think the MK Team has already passed many expectations in MK: Deception. I think the game looks great thus far and I sure as hell hope its a fun game to play and has great replay value. But anyway, great thread dude!

Peace Out

hockeyplaya Wrote: Bleed Wrote: I agree but if your going to critigue somebody or something I think you need to have a good arguement as to why you think it should be better or different and not just come up with some lame ass excuse and have no arguement to back it up with.

The majority have had a good arguement, and have suggested good ideas for MK.

There are numerous threads that have people who have done so, it is only the minority of people that will just flame MK for the sake of it, don't take that minority as everyone expressing opinions.

great post i agree......

XiahouDun84 Wrote: I agree. Most people will say they're just voicing their opinions, which is fine, but there's a difference between constructive criticism and childish bitching.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for saying what I have been thinking for the longest time.

Great thread and good points.I agree with what you said.

I gotta admit I see alot of bitching and moaning instead of actually giving Boon, the MK Team and MKD credit for where it has improved.

I have nothing against people giving ideas of how to improve or how they think it should be imrpoved but also give credit where it is due.

MKD has improved alot over MKDA.
1. Gameplay is faster.
2. Death Traps, new concept for the fighting genre and what people fail to realize is that this is part of the gameplay. The fighting engine is not the only thing that makes the gameplay.
3. Character roster is big and many fan favorite characters are back with around 6 moves.
4. The interactive stages are a big plus unlike what MKDA offered. It gives it a fresh feeling imo.
5. Two fatalities each once again and now the new Hari Kari is is new to the fighting genre as well.
6. Stage weapons, built upon alot from MK4.


Like I said before, I'm all for people giving ideas on what can and should be improved because I myself do that, but some stuff is good the way it is.

Theres a big difference between giving thoughts on ways to improve something and just complaing about something that doesn't suit you alone. I see many people who give good valid improvements while I see some people who don't and it's only cause they don't like it. MK is for the MK fans and does not revolve around one single person or groups that want it to be something it's not.

Oh and this topic wasn't one sided, ReptileLord said he was all for people giving valid improvements, just not the ones that are crying because MK is not suiting them perfectly.
I seen both sides clearly in his post, just one needed to be more stated upon because the lack of that one side.

Cheers all

CMETH Wrote: Great thread and good points.I agree with what you said. I gotta admit I see alot of bitching and moaning instead of actually giving Boon, the MK Team and MKD credit for where it has improved. I have nothing against people giving ideas of how to improve or how they think it should be imrpoved but also give credit where it is due. MKD has improved alot over MKDA. 1. Gameplay is faster. 2. Death Traps, new concept for the fighting genre and what people fail to realize is that this is part of the gameplay. The fighting engine is not the only thing that makes the gameplay. 3. Character roster is big and many fan favorite characters are back with around 6 moves. 4. The interactive stages are a big plus unlike what MKDA offered. It gives it a fresh feeling imo. 5. Two fatalities each once again and now the new Hari Kari is is new to the fighting genre as well. 6. Stage weapons, built upon alot from MK4. Like I said before, I'm all for people giving ideas on what can and should be improved because I myself do that, but some stuff is good the way it is. Theres a big difference between giving thoughts on ways to improve something and just complaing about something that doesn't suit you alone. I see many people who give good valid improvements while I see some people who don't and it's only cause they don't like it. MK is for the MK fans and does not revolve around one single person or groups that want it to be something it's not. Oh and this topic wasn't one sided, ReptileLord said he was all for people giving valid improvements, just not the ones that are crying because MK is not suiting them perfectly. I seen both sides clearly in his post, just one needed to be more stated upon because the lack of that one side. Cheers all

Seems ok to me, I agree with what you said except some minor points.

The 6 points you have given are irrelevant to what people have been "complaining" and suggesting ideas over, the closest one would be the speed of gameplay, if someone doesn't like the gameplay, then all speeding it up does is making a faster version of something you don't like, a lot of good ideas have been put forward about that, speed is just something you'd want in any fighting game.

By one sided I didn't mean what people were saying, I meant by the amount of people saying one thing and the amount of people saying another.

I think that some people give bad critism to MK, because they just want to piss people off in this forum, and I don't understand why they do it? I really don't???

I think that people that give bad critism to MK are "some times" the new users, and I know I am not a Senior in this forum but let me just give you an example I few weeks ago I read a thread of somebody(who was knew) saying something that "Reiko was SK... and blah...blah..blah" Anyway my point is that when somebody new comes and tries to give his/her opinion the other members just start with "not this bulls*** again!!...blah blah..blah" and I think that's how conflict begins and people just start to make enemies, and them they take it on the Game(mk). And thats how "some" of them give bad critism to MK, some of them do it just to piss the people that they don't like.

Anyway I am sorry if I confused people. This is just my opinion though... I might be wrong!

Well said!I'm gonner get deception and I'm spending my money here so nobody talk bullshit in my head.MK is the best fighting game out there,sells the most and fans opinion plays a big role with it.I mean it's even some ideas we are giving here ends up in the mkgames,it's like we make mk so if I feel like complain all you can do is bubble your mouth.See if you can find a thread called:Hope these mini games isn't halfass and see how much I defended mk in that thread.

It's About Time!!!

Finally, someone is actually saying something about all the bashing and complaining on MK Deception. The game is still in production...its not even finished yet! Wait until the game comes out in October to make comments on it, don't bash it before then.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is MK: Deception. People should just wait for the finished product to come out and then have their say.

Thanks for finally putting this post out dude.
Love, Peace, and Hairgrease!

FLSTYLE Wrote: CMETH Wrote: Great thread and good points.I agree with what you said. I gotta admit I see alot of bitching and moaning instead of actually giving Boon, the MK Team and MKD credit for where it has improved. I have nothing against people giving ideas of how to improve or how they think it should be imrpoved but also give credit where it is due. MKD has improved alot over MKDA. 1. Gameplay is faster. 2. Death Traps, new concept for the fighting genre and what people fail to realize is that this is part of the gameplay. The fighting engine is not the only thing that makes the gameplay. 3. Character roster is big and many fan favorite characters are back with around 6 moves. 4. The interactive stages are a big plus unlike what MKDA offered. It gives it a fresh feeling imo. 5. Two fatalities each once again and now the new Hari Kari is is new to the fighting genre as well. 6. Stage weapons, built upon alot from MK4. Like I said before, I'm all for people giving ideas on what can and should be improved because I myself do that, but some stuff is good the way it is. Theres a big difference between giving thoughts on ways to improve something and just complaing about something that doesn't suit you alone. I see many people who give good valid improvements while I see some people who don't and it's only cause they don't like it. MK is for the MK fans and does not revolve around one single person or groups that want it to be something it's not. Oh and this topic wasn't one sided, ReptileLord said he was all for people giving valid improvements, just not the ones that are crying because MK is not suiting them perfectly. I seen both sides clearly in his post, just one needed to be more stated upon because the lack of that one side. Cheers all Seems ok to me, I agree with what you said except some minor points. The 6 points you have given are irrelevant to what people have been "complaining" and suggesting ideas over, the closest one would be the speed of gameplay, if someone doesn't like the gameplay, then all speeding it up does is making a faster version of something you don't like, a lot of good ideas have been put forward about that, speed is just something you'd want in any fighting game. By one sided I didn't mean what people were saying, I meant by the amount of people saying one thing and the amount of people saying another.

I didn't say they were relevant to what people mentioned, just those are all areas where it has been improved but yet no credit is really given to it. That's why I said give credit where it is due.

I see what you meant, but can you blame them. Not to sound harsh but anyone saying they completely disagree is lacking some common sense. Cause whoever thinks it's ok to complain about everything without backing it up and never giving credit to what has been improved just has no real grip on the way things work in life. Things are always being improved upon but only when intelligence is used and when the things need to be improved upon. Almost everyone in this thread seems to know that things should be improved upon but also at the same time to give credit for stuff that has been worked on.

Everybody that agreed with this thread some way or another has understanding of how things work.

Toxik Wrote: I think that some people give bad critism to MK, because they just want to piss people off in this forum, and I don't understand why they do it? I really don't???

Some people need to be pissed off. A good example are the worthless character petitions. Talk about complete and utter junk. Especially topics like this. We've gotten about 100 of these things, and each say the same thing. "You haven't played the game yet!" or "You should be respectful!" Offended that easily by TEXT? Tough shit. With that being said...

*goes into GameFAQs mode* Lets rock \m/

So for those of you with posts pertaining to how shitty you feel MKD will be please refrain from being negative and trying to break the spirits of those of us who are real MK fans and are looking forward to the game. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism but when you bash a game on a fansite for that game it tends to get people a little rialed up

Obviously if I didn't like MK to some extent I wouldn't even be here. As a matter of fact, MKII was the first game I ever actually bought with my own money. But of course, no matter how much I anticipate a game I think I'll like it'll backfire in my face. I was really excited about Deadly Alliance, because I thought it would be just like the classic MK games. However, the better I got at DA, the more I seemed to notice the problems. There wasn't any depth in the fighting engine at all. It was the same crap I hated in MK3. I never played with combos in MK3 and post, because I thought it was bullshit. They weren't combos. It was some half-assed excuse to be in the same market as fighters such as Tekken and Virtua Fighter.

I participate in the gameplay threads regularly here. I like to view ideas and even post my own. However, what sickens me the most is the VAST amount of fanboys on this site. No matter WHAT, they'll ALWAYS think MK is perfect. Any casual gamer can say that is not true. No game is perfect, but some games ARE better than others. By no means does anyone want MK to become Tekken or Virtua Fighter. That's obsurd. Their engines are too different. However, a game such as DOA would be a very nice comparison, because the engine is similar.

The VF4:E thread has gotten several fanboys who come in and say "Virtua Fighter is just a button masher!" and other comments in order to spite us. This can be proven false easily. MK thwarted button mashing with their new DA engine. However, the engine was such crap that the only way to get off combos was via a dial system. That means you can't do combos ANY OTHER WAY and you have to use the dial-a-combo system, because they're programmed in. The problem with this was, the movelist was just for kicks, and you could the same combo over and over again just for cheese.

In depth fighting system? Hell no. Repeating the same motion over and over again is cheese, and is the most boring thing in the world. DOA is an example of a button masher, however, DOA is in depth enough to prevent button mashers from winning. DOA is what I call a "pick up and play" fighter. The control scheme is very easy at first, but playing it you will become more advanced. This was the same way with MKI and MKII.

Any person who knows how to play an advanced fighting game would know Deadly Alliance was "lacking" as a fighter. Virtua Fighter 4 is NOT a pick up and play title. You HAVE to learn how to use each fighter effectively. This gives diversity, and allows for EACH fighter to be able to win a match. Tekken is similar, but it drops right in the middle of pick up and play to mastering. Tekken has some overpowered characters compared to others, but most fighters can be used equally.

Midway even blatantly said that "This fighter might suck" with the difficulty numbers on each fighter. First off, if you KNOW a certain fighter is harder to use than another, then something's wrong. Certain styles are also overpowered compared to the others. I want a balanced fighting game, not Pokemon-style fighting engine.

Was Deadly Alliance slow? Yes. MKI and II were faster than Deadly Alliance. Deadly Alliance was also a very poor fighter. So what does everybody do?

Complain about fatalities. This proves most of the MK fans couldn't play a real fighting game to save their life. I was happy with one fatality per character, because I thought the aim of DA was to become more like MKI. Well, everybody complains and bitches about little insignificant things. Such as fatalities, outfits, etc.

This didn't bother me as much as Midway itself. They seem to TRY and cover up a vast amount. Look at the Krypt. Concept art is a nice thing, but I could honestly give a flying rat's ass about the developers and what they look like in fighting poses. This type of shit took up more than half of the Krypt, and I found myself going online to get the important stuff (not just characters and arenas, but concept art and the humorous stuff). Half of the Krypt could've been palette swap outfits, and that would've been swell. Instead we get treated to all of this half-assed crap and the obscure Konquest mode which was more of a hassle than anything else. For what? Blaze and Mokap? Don't throw unfinished shit in at the last second.

Now, we're here to Deception. I was pretty anticipated, seeing how well this would look compared to Deadly Alliance. I hear about all of this stuff such as returning characters and fatalities and that sort of crap. I was hoping for something else too: the removal of dial-a-combos. EVERYONE (everyone with half a brain, anyway) complains about these. Yet they're STILL there. That was the first glance I saw of another MK decline. Do you have any idea how EASY it is to design a better combo system? A manual system? Its not hard, and I did one myself. However, what has Midway been doing all of this time?

Puzzle Kombat and Chess Kombat! Oh whoopy-fucking-doo! I want a fighting game. Not extra modes to make up for the lack of a fighting engine. "But you haven't even played it yet!" I've played Deadly Alliance, and I've played better fighters. The better fighters have extra modes too...

...that ACTUALLY INVOLVE THE FIGHTING ENGINE. Konquest could've been a game all by itself, and be MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger and better. I would've forked over an extra $50 for a super advanced Konquest mode. Imagine Phantasy Star Online, only Mortal Kombat style. Chess involves the actual fighting engine, which is a nice change. But, seriously, if the engine sucks, why play it? Well, you can always try and not get in a fight, but that won't last long. At least the dial-a-combos make it super easy and super quick. Puzzle was a dumb idea to begin with. Puzzle games are highly addictive. Anyone knows that. Midway did this on purpose, so people could play Puzzle and Chess in case something was wrong with the fighting game. Nice try, but its easy to see through it.

Deception has a story and character selection. Wow, that's what makes up an RPG! Quite amazing. I want to see all of these promised advanced features for the fighter, not extra blood and extra outfits and extra crap.

But! That's what all of these fans want to see! It fucking pisses me off. These worthless topics about "WE NEED KITANA" or "I WANT MY RAIN." They could give a two shits about a fighting game, probably because they don't even know how to play one. Hell, they should just turn Mortal Kombat into an RPG and they'll all buy it! That way, everyone wins! The fans will have their characters and story, and Midway won't need to get off of their asses and make a decent fighting engine!

The majority of the forum users in general make me sick, but I'll stick to the topic and leave it at that.

Well I think that settles that, anyone else thinking there's just MK bashing for no reason going on should read that before posting.

Wanderer Wrote:

Beautiful.

FLSYTLE, you TOTALLY nulified my original ^^^^ .

many apologies, but my post was pretty good wasn't it.

Seriously though, what Wanderer has said should be pinned at the top, it's the smartest thing I've ever seen written on these boards.

Wanderer, I agreed with everything you said. I think that those people who want their characters back or whatever they want are the ones who piss people off. I guess sometimes I can understand why they piss people off. As for me I NEVER even read the threads about "petition" because I didn't even bother to waste my time reading those useless thread, anyway I guess some day they will see MK different, than just perfect!.

FLSTYLE Wrote: The majority have had a good arguement, and have suggested good ideas for MK. There are numerous threads that have people who have done so, it is only the minority of people that will just flame MK for the sake of it, don't take that minority as everyone expressing opinions.

Yes you are right, there are numerous threads that have people who create a great arguement, but I'm talking about the people who just flame MK for the sake of it. There are many intelligent people on this forum who do make a good arguement with the facts and knowledge to back it up, but there are also many people who are complete morons and have horrible arguements with no facts to back up what they are saying, they say sh*t just to piss people off and to try to act all bad ass. 700th visit!

Peace Out
*Edit* sorry I didnt see Wanderers post before I posted this. That was very well spokan and just brilliant Wanderer. Nice job!

Wanderer great post and you along with fltstyle and Bleed have really earnt my respect on your views and more particularly the way you have put them across (although Wanderer tends to shoot off at times).

I don't agree with it all but you have certainly made me think.

I want improvements but don't want characters to be SO complicated that we can't be competitive with them all (like VF4Evo). I guess that puts me in the middle ground.

See, my whole thing is this. tgrant has taken the time to make a thread. And in that thread are links to virtually every topic about MK:D's characters, gameplay, graphics, sound, etc. Yet still, I see the "Mk'd new graphics suck" topics. I click on the topic to read it and I get in a nutshell... "MK's graphics need to be more like Tekken's". Well ok great, this is the same thing that has been said 987239237983753758 times in the past 3-4 months. We couldn't of just used tgrant's thread, looked on there for a graphics topic, clicked on it, typed our little message in there, and then clicked submit? What? Is that too easy to do?

Instead we get a whole new thread about how MK:D's graphics need to be more realistic like Tekken. I mean seriously, tgrant has invested alot of time in thet stickied thread, people could at the very least use that instead of cluttering the boards with worthless threads that have already been discussed countless times in the past few months. And that goes for anything praising MK:D too. Like the "OMG Sub-Zero looks awesome" threads. All the character story threads. All the fatality threads. There is a link for each one in tgrants stickied thread, right at the top, all topics are listed in the first post. Not that hard eh?

About the people complaining about the dial-a-combo system. Does anyone remember the combo breaker that Boon has been talking about. That means you can't repeat the same combo over and over again, or you're gonna get you're ass handed to ya. So obviously, they're gonna make the combo system better, because, with the combo breaker, you can't repeat a combo a million times. If they don't, that's just a stupid move.

sumixam Wrote: Wanderer great post and you along with fltstyle and Bleed have really earnt my respect on your views and more particularly the way you have put them across (although Wanderer tends to shoot off at times). I don't agree with it all but you have certainly made me think. I want improvements but don't want characters to be SO complicated that we can't be competitive with them all (like VF4Evo). I guess that puts me in the middle ground.

Same here. I'm in the middle. I agree on both sides but only if both sides are mature about it and have stuff to back it up. The people in the VF thread definitely back it up which is why I have no problem with them. I just don't like when someone just bashes it without backing it up or giving some way to improve it.

And I'm just a person that thinks credit should be given where it is due.

Which is why I can feel for both sides.

I'm am by no means a fanboy, yes I do enjoy playing mk far more than any other fighter but that's partially bdue to the connection I have with the story/characters. The original intention of this post was not to stop the criticism of MKD but to just attempt to clean it up. There are many well educated posts about the lacking elements in MKD and those I have no problem but when i read topics as to how MK should try to be like this game or that game I don't understand how you can truly appreciate what MK is about it has a history and that's what we look forward to half the time; seeing how everything turns out. Now in particular (not meaning to flame anyone) there was a comment of how MK should go back to the glory days of MKI & II but with that also came a topic of how shitty MKDA's gameplay was; are you honestly trying to tell me that MKI & II had such a superb engine to it. The exact same moves for every character, this is what I mean about checking your posts before you actually post them. I still stand by my original post in that I think there's still too much unwarranted bullshit floating around this forum.

NoObSaIbOt777 Wrote: About the people complaining about the dial-a-combo system. Does anyone remember the combo breaker that Boon has been talking about. That means you can't repeat the same combo over and over again, or you're gonna get you're ass handed to ya. So obviously, they're gonna make the combo system better, because, with the combo breaker, you can't repeat a combo a million times. If they don't, that's just a stupid move.

lol, in theroy yes. But why do all that rather than make a half decent combo system? Why even put a combo breaker system in? Why not change the combos system so breakers are not needed?

It seems to me like all they are doing is patching shit up with out healing the wound.

As far as this thread goes: Meh. It's been done.

I agree don't rag on mk.It's wrong.

My bad on the extra mk.

MK-TJ Wrote: I agree don't rag on mk.It's wrong.