ThE_CoLD_KomBATANt Wrote: Douche. I hope you slip in your kitchen and your face hits the ground really hard. So hard that you lose the ability to use your penis.

LMAO

umm anyone saying mkd is horrible has a severe case of down syndrome............
so many new and improved things....

why arnt ppl satisfied....awwwwwwwwwwwwww
gameplay dosent make you have to spend a year of your life to master a single charecter....????

awwwwwwwwwww

poor babies

dont like it dont but it


ohhhhhh

and
all fluff no substance????????????
seriously...story line IS SUBSTANCE OK....

oh
anyways

i like fluff more then peanut butter


muwhahahahahahahahahaah
muwhaha

cartmansp Wrote: Satyagraha,why can't I enjoy a game for it's simplicity? I just don't want to spend all my time training with a character,learning tons of moves that I wont even use when I'm in an actual battle.It's a waste of time in my opinion.Of course I would like the gameplay to be deeper with multiple throws,counters,more moves, ect., but I don't want it to get to the point were it feels more like work and less like fun.The work and fun parts need to balance themselves out,otherwise people wont like the game.I love the eyecandy(which you appearently don't).I love the deathtraps, fatalitys, hara kiris, more special moves, ect.It's the part of the game I look forward to the most.Other games lack the story, diversity and eyecandy MK has.I would love to have deeper, faster, more advanced gameplay.Mabye it will happen in MK7 or MK8 but if it doesn't,I won't be heartbroken

You see, that's what I mean, though. There is nothing wrong with liking something for it's simplicity. Just as there is nothing wrong with liking something for its complexity. I simply think that certain parties, including myself, can't see the other parties side. Why? For various reasons which dictate an entirly new thread. That's neither here nor' there, though.

You stated how working and spending much time to learn a character takes away the fun; but for me and others that IS fun. The work, the involvement and process of that work is fun. It's the path to the enjoyment that makes it even that much more enjoyable. It is the learning, the thinking, the discovering that is fun. I do not need "fatalities" and "Puzzle Kombat" to accomplish such; I need a fighting system that will allow me to accomplish such. Earning coins and buying a secret is much different than putting in the time to learn a character; then enjoy the rewards when you see your hard work pay off.

There is a quote; "function before form," that every comercial art school, design school, and engineering school preach as if it's life itself. You seam to believe that I do not care about fluff and eye candy. On the contrary, I have been trained to create just that. I am still paying the loans for it, too. However, function is essential to all that is created. With out it, there is no "true" existance or point to whatever that has been created. Quite simply; it will be shallow, souless.

Though, MK is not a fighting game, it's something else. So the "soul" of MK could very well be something that does not lend itself to a true, deep, fighter. I am willing to live with that now. It just hurts knowing that I have to.

Everyone, on both sides of the fence, needs to figure out what a die hard MK fan is. To me, a die hard MK fan or fan of anything for that matter is someone who wants the product/team/game etc. to be the best it could possibly be. I'm a Devil myself but my father is a die hard Ranger fan. Do you have any idea how upset he is at the overall quality of the team? He doesn't sit down and say "Oh well, as a die hard Ranger I should take what's given to me". Hell no. He's vocal about his distaste for the team's progression. He want's them to actually make the playoffs sometime in the near future.

My point is that MK is not perfect. There will always be room for advancement and improvement. Be happy with what is good and praise it for that but be critical of the flaws.

I suppose the core discrepancy is that some people consider the engine to be a flaw and others do not. I understand that many people here worry that MK will become like "those" games that take years to learn. Well, think of it this way. No fighting game worth it's weight in salt requires complete dedication to become competent in it's system. Not Soul Calibur, not Virtua Fighter, not Street Fighter Alpha 3, not Smash Bros., not TMNT Tournament Fighters. Someone who plays for three years yet doesn't really learn anything will lose to someone who's been playing for only a couple of months but plays smarter. If you're not interested in the highest of highest play like national tournaments then you don't have to worry about counting frames or even know the entire movelist by heart. Knowing the entire movelist won't help you if you don't play smart. A game that requires an excessive amount of dedication to learn the system is not a good game. None of the big fighters fit into that category though.

I don't think deep gameplay is Ed Boon's style.He prefers making a game to be simple and easy to learn, a game that is different than other fighting games, a game that will appeal to most gamers.And it seems to be working since MK is one of the best selling fighting games to date.

Mabye some day the MK Team will decide to make a very deep fighting game while still keeping the violence,originality and fun it always had. That day will be the best day in video game history.

MK is about fun. And I've never had more fun with a fighting game.

Satyagraha Wrote: You see, that's what I mean, though. There is nothing wrong with liking something for it's simplicity. Just as there is nothing wrong with liking something for its complexity. I simply think that certain parties, including myself, can't see the other parties side. Why? For various reasons which dictate an entirly new thread. That's neither here nor' there, though. You stated how working and spending much time to learn a character takes away the fun; but for me and others that IS fun. The work, the involvement and process of that work is fun. It's the path to the enjoyment that makes it even that much more enjoyable. It is the learning, the thinking, the discovering that is fun. I do not need "fatalities" and "Puzzle Kombat" to accomplish such; I need a fighting system that will allow me to accomplish such. Earning coins and buying a secret is much different than putting in the time to learn a character; then enjoy the rewards when you see your hard work pay off. There is a quote; "function before form," that every comercial art school, design school, and engineering school preach as if it's life itself. You seam to believe that I do not care about fluff and eye candy. On the contrary, I have been trained to create just that. I am still paying the loans for it, too. However, function is essential to all that is created. With out it, there is no "true" existance or point to whatever that has been created. Quite simply; it will be shallow, souless. Though, MK is not a fighting game, it's something else. So the "soul" of MK could very well be something that does not lend itself to a true, deep, fighter. I am willing to live with that now. It just hurts knowing that I have to.

lol, thank you for typing that so I didn't have to.

i agree w/ u 100%...... it doesnt matter how many moves there r or how great or crappy the game play is....its true for all the games.... it could have all the extra stuff,but if u dont play smart u wont win.. i have many x's walked away from the mk machine (sorry please dont kill me) to play tekken street fighter and sc /sc2 among others... whopped up on some 1 who plays the game 24/7,knows all the moves..etc etc but he/she dont play smart and lose..what im getting at is that yeah having alot of moves depth and game play is great...(especially for the single players enjoyment) but it doesnt mean anything vs a smart opponent..so basically it doesnt matter if the game has depth or none what so ever u still need skills to play....yeah i love sc 2 tekken..etc etc i like them alot more then mk3,mk4,mkda but even w/ all there depth i still like mk 2 better w/ its inferrior game play and depth,but the fighting is still better and funner then all those depth games i still play it to this day (thanx to mame online (those others just sit there collecting dust).....yeah i hated mkda but it could have been the lack of opponents i had.. i feel the online play will add alot to mkd... u know, they could have added online play to mkda and it could have ended up being a great game....
IM A FIGHTING GAME FAN I LOVE THEM ALL!!


then besides the fighting part of the game the story is by far the best of all fightng games!!
now w/ the konquest,chess,puzzle,and online play mkd will be a great game!!!! thats a fact!!!!

TonyTheTiger Wrote: Everyone, on both sides of the fence, needs to figure out what a die hard MK fan is. To me, a die hard MK fan or fan of anything for that matter is someone who wants the product/team/game etc. to be the best it could possibly be. I'm a Devil myself but my father is a die hard Ranger fan. Do you have any idea how upset he is at the overall quality of the team? He doesn't sit down and say "Oh well, as a die hard Ranger I should take what's given to me". Hell no. He's vocal about his distaste for the team's progression. He want's them to actually make the playoffs sometime in the near future. My point is that MK is not perfect. There will always be room for advancement and improvement. Be happy with what is good and praise it for that but be critical of the flaws. I suppose the core discrepancy is that some people consider the engine to be a flaw and others do not. I understand that many people here worry that MK will become like "those" games that take years to learn. Well, think of it this way. No fighting game worth it's weight in salt requires complete dedication to become competent in it's system. Not Soul Calibur, not Virtua Fighter, not Street Fighter Alpha 3, not Smash Bros., not TMNT Tournament Fighters. Someone who plays for three years yet doesn't really learn anything will lose to someone who's been playing for only a couple of months but plays smarter. If you're not interested in the highest of highest play like national tournaments then you don't have to worry about counting frames or even know the entire movelist by heart. Knowing the entire movelist won't help you if you don't play smart. A game that requires an excessive amount of dedication to learn the system is not a good game. None of the big fighters fit into that category though.

I think it was Verse who said earlier that Gamespot, Ign etc. don't know about fighting games and their depth etc.

However, I do feel that Gamespot hit the nail on the head in one of their previews when they said "MK is simply about beating somebody up for the hell of it."

I am one of the ones who would love to see counter hits with different properties, parries, proper reversals, frame data and the like, but thing is, Mortal Kombat has never been particuarly in depth, because it was meant for the fun factor.

MK:D isn't any different by the look of things.
I know that if I want a deep fighting game I won't find it in MK, which I guess is a shame to some extent, but the fact that it never was particularly deep means that I liked the series as it was, so I don't really need it in MK:D.

Mortal Kombat is fun, simple as that. Maybe when the fun runs out of the series they might try to add some depth like other fighting games to try to keep people interested.
While it would be great to have it all, doesn't look like it's going to happen, so instead, I'll reserve my deep fighting game playing for something else and my fun for MK.

Well, I do believe that MK is fun to some people because they never had the cheese used against them because their peers know nothing about it. Which is why I repeat, when MKD comes out and it's online..fans will be getting a wake up call to what MKDA/D is really about. You won't have the option of just playing your buddies. You'll be facing players that knew MKDA inside and out, and since the engine is extremely simlair it's going to be VERY easy for people to get into. My main characters were Sub,Bo and Jax. I know for a fact stance wise Sub and Bo have no changed, and I doubt Jax will much considering Ed Boon's style of creating games, so we will be seeing come October what MKD is really about.

I also would like to add here that there were a select few of "high level" players at E3, and I have learned that the glitches and bugs that plauged MKDA are still in. Yes, the BDC, universal track and BRC's infintie are still there and untouched..yuck.

bezou Wrote: MK is about fun. And I've never had more fun with a fighting game.

We'll see how fun it is when you're infinited to oblivion by my Bo Rai Cho..bahahahaha.

And one more thing..I would like EVERYONE in this topic to please,please,please,please,please either post here or PM to me what this "MK Flavor" because I would love to hear what you have to say about that. Keep in mind I do not want to hear about fatalities or the story or the cool character or the sweet extras. I wanna hear about core gameplay. What seperates MKDA from Tekken 4,Virtua Fighter 4 and Soul Calibur 2?

People complain about us wanting MK to be a Tekken clone. That has got to be..ONE OF the most retarded things I have ever heard. Wanting a game to be semi deep and worthwhile to play automatically makes us want MK to be something it's not. Yeah..right..not.

NEWS FLASH

NEWS FLASH

NEWS FLASH

You people like MK because of it's cosmetics and flash. I love it because of that too, I ADMIT IT! HOWEVER! Don't you realize that we can have an MK with killer fatalities, excellent story, all the coolest characters returning, sweet online play and a dope konquest mode...PLUS a game that takes an IQ to learn?

I hope to god Ray made the MK team. He's probably the only hope for MKD being a solid fighting game. As of right now there approximately 5 months until the release of Mortal Kombat: Deception. Other than gameplay MKD literally looks like a perfect game. The modes, the return of the krypt, killer fatalities and the best roster I have ever seen in an MK game. With these things already taken care of for the most part, Ed Boon and his crew can focus on making things like combo breaker worthwhile and just making MKD look more professional and less "a 7 year old can compete in this game"ish. I think they can pull it off, go MIDWAY!

TomTaz Wrote: I don't understand why People WANT Mk to be just like Tekken or DOA or SC...WHY??? Mortal Kombat always has been and always will be different from any other fighting game. So yeah, ok, the fight system is not nearly as complex as Tekken. So what? I happen to like Tekken, but video games are supposed to be fun and entertaining FIRST, And MK has both of these covered probably better than any other Fighting game, next to probably only the SF series. Tekken is a great series, and so is SC, I play these games often, but in Tekken for example, IMO there is just to much thinking and stratedgy involved to be great in that game...and that's fine sometimes it's more rewarding to be challenged, but when I get tired of that I want to play a Fighter that is just simply FUN To play, no real harsh stratedgy involved...And this is what I turn to MK for, So I'm sorry but I hope MK is NEVER anything like any of those other series...You Want Tekken? SC? DOA? Buy those games. That simple. Please don't flame, I'm just stating my opinion is all.

Thankyou TomTaz! I agree 100%!

MK has always been unique from every other fighter as they have to every other themselves. MK has always been about fun and that is what it delivers! Always!

I agree that if others want SC or Tekken aspects they should play those games. I don't want to play a game that just copies every other figther out there. As you said most of them require too much stratgey to win whereas MK is all about pick up and play fun.

It is that along with MKs many other distinguishing features which makes it such a great game.

I don't think anyone wants a Tekken/DoA/SC clone.. mainly because it's Mortal Kombat. I think that if anyone wanted to play those japanese masterpieces then they would.. they do.. I do..

But.. I think when people compare MK to those games.. they speak of animation quality.

The quality of animation.

Animation quality. Fluidity.

Okay, this is getting rediculous. I'll let the Tekken fans in on a little secret here. MK:DA had about 75 moves per character. Seems strange right? Well, you see, Tekken and SC2 both have every move and every combo per character on move lists. MK:DA had every move and some of the combos. I know this because I'm a master at Tekken 3, Tag, and SC. Sorry, but Tekken 4 was awful, Tekken 5 looks no better THUS FAR. SC2 was a BLATANT rehash that I got bored of after a week. But, that's just my opinion.

Also, this thing about MK needing more depth. Here's my take. When MK came out, it was considered the gorier, flashier alternative to Street Fighter. I personally found SF's hokey, cartoony characters and completely shoddy story to pale in comparison to the Enter the Dragon style that MK simply oozed. However, the gameplay and style differences were okay back then.

But now it seems that since 3D came along, every game has to have 150 moves per character. Why? Because VF has that many? I think that this argument is funny, because for the longest time I've heard VF fans bitch about Tekken and how crappy it is. Not MK. Perhaps some people recognize the fact that there's room for different types of game in a genre? That Halo, Doom 3, XIII, and Timesplitters don't play exactly the same way. That Mario, Crash, and Sonic don't play exactly the same way. That Street Fighter, Killer Instinct, Eternal Champions, and Bloodstorm don't play the same way.

Honestly, you take away all the flash, and you still have a game that has fun moves and fun combos. If you don't like either of these things, that's fine. I grew up on MK. I lived in Chicago and got to play the early versions of the games when they were beta tested in arcades. I feel a connection to this game more so than any other videogame. But that's just me. I don't expect everyone to share my devotion. I mean, I like other fighting games too, but I know and respect the differences between them.

So saying that you don't like the substance of MK is fine, but don't say that there isn't any. You add up moves, special moves, combos, and heck, why not, fatalities, and you got characters that have a ton of moves. You've got sidesteps, combo breakers, strategically placed ring outs, extra weapons, etc. If you don't like this substance, and you prefer the parry style of SC, or the switch move from Tekken, or multithrows or what have you. Fine, great. But don't say that MK has no substance. You don't like it, fine, but it's DEFINITELY there, and it's deep, and it works for me. And yes, I like Virtua Fighter, Tekken etc. At one time I could pull off EVERY move in Tekken 3 FROM MEMORY. Does that make me like the game any more than MK tho? No, to me it's like comparing apples and oranges. Some of you people need to realize that.

as usual I agree with everything Tomtaz & Tgrant said, the same goes for Baraka407 too. Im in 100% agreement, its like comparing apples to oranges.

-Smaddy

I think MK would feel more deep if you didn't have to switch between fighting styles (aside from weapon stance). If they just let you perform all of those moves without haveing to switch and gave you the flexibility to perform any move at any given time, this topic would likely not have even been created. I believe the fighting styles falsly portray a shallowness that doesn't really exist.

Versatile, Satyagraha, TonyTheTiger Wrote: ...

I love you guys!

To everyone else:

Look, nobody wants a clone of those games! We play those games (and LOTS of them), so telling us to play them is just a waste of your breath.

I'll try and make this breif... What we want is something called non-linearity... Options... Custom-Combos! Once you learn the combos of Deadly-Alliance (or Deception if things in fact are the same), you are so horrendiously confined by them.

Sure, you can use glitches (such as backdash-cancels) to attempt to change things up in your style of play, but you the player shouldn't have to resort to breaking the game to do this. It should just be right out available in each character's arsenal.


Make something complex to something simple...

This is why Sc2 is a very easy game to pick up, but it's hard to master. There's a huge variety of basic attacks, mostly one hits, some two or three. Noobs can mash away and fare ok against a decent player becuase of this extensive movelist that basically has an attack designtated to each direction + button press. (oh yeah, don't forget double taps, QCs, 376231s on the stick, and different button combinations...) More advanced players will understand each move your character posseses taking into consideration the moves speed, range, strength, it's effect on the opponent, and how to react in various situations. And the real beauty? It's not just one move that will work in the given situation! Again i can bring up that word options...

Think outside the bun, bitches!

I do not want MK to be a SC or Tekken clone. that is not what the critics' comments are reflecting and people who are taking to much offense to their game being critisized. Mk's style is a brutal one, but pushing someone around an arena is not brutal. I assume that will be fixed before the final version. This game is not finished yet, thats why its important to critisize it. MKDe does need more complexity from what I hear. The entire remembering a move list thing from an earlier post:thats what MKDA is... remember one single long combo and its guaranteed to desimate your opponent once the first hit is in. Combo breakers will be nice, but there definately need to be more complexity and more moves isn't what most are talking about. the ability to play smart against your opponents, to have options in how to attack your opponent instead of choosing the cheapest combo out of your list of tricks... I love mk... no one can dispute that. I have MKI on Genesis and Sega CD, MKII on Genesis on 32X, UMK3 on Genesis, MKT and MKM:S-Z on Playstation, I don't even have a playstation anymore... shit... MKgold on Dreamcast(main reason for buying a DC) and MKDA on Xbox.... MKDA was fun for a little while... its story is better than any other fighting game... but the critique is not of the story, extras, costumes, etc... this is the actual fighting system... In MKDA I can smoke anyone with one combo and some dodging(if I still played it a lot, my best bud can smoke me), but in DOA3 my friend who has played it for a long time has to keep adjusting his styles... he attacks I counter, I pull out new combos, that juggle from a crouching position or a back facing position, he counters my mid range moves, I attack low, high, many many options and the game becomes like a game of chess, but the CPU is that entirely hard really... thats what I want MKDe to be... not a DOA3 clone... a game that will keep you guessing, getting better and when your friend who smokes you comes over again you've learned new ways to attack and counter to take out their constant and repetitive attacking nature, but in MKDA you can do anything, but sidestep and block (their countermove is maybe useful once in a while, but its only for a handful or characters), the push move is almost useless... the addition of classic specials will add more depth I think, teleports that attack you from the other side will add a new spin on things as will combo breakers, but the system itself needs tweaking, not an overhaul, but a serious tweak to be considered a good fighting game... and you wouldn't have to memorize an entire set list, just how to attack low and high, how to counter, etc, it would be maybe a little difficult at first... a little, but it wouldn't take a genius to figure out a slightly more complex fighting system... complexity isn't the amount of moves, but the ability to apply those moves smart and have it make an affect on the gameplay, rather than one combo(or a few combos) over and over and over... but no matter how MKDe turns out I will buy it the day it comes out, because the new additions into gameplay will make it interesting, but nothing special, the puzzle kombat, chess kombat, and konquest will be interesting and making my own character with different styles will be interesting also....

For my final post for this thread..

MK could keep the fighting engine.. the 3 fighting styles.. the [now] many moves and variable combos for each of those styles.. and everything else that makes up the engine.. and that'd be the best fighter ever (MK6).

I just want solid hit detection..

Solid shit! lol.. falls.. spills.. chills..

And a last note.. when Sindel was knocked off the mountain onto the spiked rock, did anyone notice how at some point it was up her ass? Clipping like that just annoys me.. we have technology to make her body *STOP on impalement impact.

The Pit 2 was abrupt.. shocking.. the *flash* when the person was uppercutted. That's why MK2 had shock value.. it was animated that way.

I felt those uppercuts a little myself..
Boom.

The guy has a point. Although it would appear some effort has been made to flesh out the gameplay of the main game (like dashing, but i suppose we'll have to wait and see) it appears mk will still be some way behind the other 3d fighters. I'm not saying tekken or virtua fighter are perfect- far from it, but they do have a shedload more moves, and seem more evolved in terms of mechanics, if that makes any sense. I wish the mk guys would ditch the whole 3-style bolocks too.

Prolly still buy it though.

Ok, everyone has their own opinions of what they think MK should be, but we're forgetting one thing,. I's not done yet. The showing at E3 was VERY preliminary...I mean the only special Move Mileena had was her ground roll, and you know that's going to change. The fact is that Oct. is still a ways of from here....There is plenty of time and room for improvement....We don't know exactly what we're gonna get yet, NONE of us. We can't base what the game WILL be on a beta E3 showing. It's not nearly complete yet, so maybe they will change a lot more things before they're done, Simply put the version we saw was way to imcomplete to make any kind of judgements as to how MKD will play.

bottom line for all the mk haters If you dont like the way it looks dont buy itmean come on its not even finished yet and people are already talking shit about it tekken is tekken, virtual fighter is vitual fighter, soul calibur is soul calibur, and for god sakes Mortal Kombat is Mortal Kombat

bottom line for all the mk haters If you dont like the way it looks dont buy itmean come on its not even finished yet and people are already talking shit about it tekken is tekken, virtual fighter is vitual fighter, soul calibur is soul calibur, and for god sakes Mortal Kombat is Mortal Kombat

hmm plus tekken had 4 years and doa had about what say 5? sc i admit had 3.. mk.. on 3d... hmm this makes the 2nd.. so comparing on how much time they had.. yeah there doing great.. remember tekken 1.. remember how hard it was at first.. then there was only a limited of chars.. same for doa... mkda had more when it first came out..